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Smiles
June 16th, 2009, 22:59
Having been annoyed at myself more than once over the years regarding the use of 'baited' or 'bated' when referring to one's breathing and not really knowing for sure which to use, I have invariably used whichever word came to mind first, and then just carried on.
The use of the phrase (being rather ancient, thus the dilemma) is so few and far between that (1) it's easily forgotten, (2) it doesn't really matter anyway, and (3) almost no one ever calls you on it.

But in the "arsehole" thread below, a couple of posters have taken Gone Fishing to task ~ mainly out of pettiness I should add, the comments having precisely zero to do with the thread subject ~ for his use of 'baited' instead of 'bated'.
Following that, and his indubitable fashion at taking umbrage at anyone on the board who should correct him, Gone Fishing, all puffed up to the max male pidgeon-like, this time seems to be on the wrong side of Shakespeare, Mark Twain, poet Geoffrey Taylor(?) and proper english usage in general.

As the article below makes clear, the mistake is so common that to make a Big Hairy Deal about it is to pronounce one's self petty in the extreme.
But in the end, general consensus seems to indicate that the proper word in this hoary old phrase seems to be 'bated' not 'baited'.

(More importantly, deep down in one of these quotes I found a terrific word I haven't used, or heard, in many a moon: "sheesh")


[Q] From Steve Gearhart: Where does the term baited breath come from, as in: тАШI am waiting with baited breath for your answerтАЩ?

[A] The correct spelling is actually bated breath but itтАЩs so common these days to see it written as baited breath that thereтАЩs every chance that it will soon become the usual form, to the disgust of conservative speakers and the confusion of dictionary writers. Examples in newspapers and magazines are legion; this one appeared in the Daily Mirror on 12 April 2003: тАЬShe hasnтАЩt responded yet but Michael is waiting with baited breathтАЭ.

ItтАЩs easy to mock, but thereтАЩs a real problem here. Bated and baited sound the same and we no longer use bated (let alone the verb to bate), outside this one set phrase, which has become an idiom. Confusion is almost inevitable. Bated here is a contraction of abated through loss of the unstressed first vowel (a process called aphesis); it means тАЬreduced, lessened, lowered in forceтАЭ. So bated breath refers to a state in which you almost stop breathing as a result of some strong emotion, such as terror or awe.

Shakespeare is the first writer known to use it, in The Merchant of Venice, in which Shylock says to Antonio: тАЬShall I bend low and, in a bondmanтАЩs key, / With bated breath and whispтАЩring humbleness, / Say this ...тАЭ. Nearly three centuries later, Mark Twain employed it in Tom Sawyer: тАЬEvery eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the taleтАЭ.

For those who know the older spelling or who stop to consider the matter, baited breath evokes an incongruous image; Geoffrey Taylor humorously (and consciously) captured it in verse in his poem Cruel Clever Cat:

Sally, having swallowed cheese,
Directs down holes the scented breeze,
Enticing thus with baited breath
Nice mice to an untimely death.

<< http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bai1.htm >>


Is it bite-size or bite-sized? FarmerтАЩs market, farmers market, or farmersтАЩ market?

Again, according to Merriam-Webster, it is correct to use either тАЬsize.тАЭ The more common usage listed is тАЬbite-sizeтАЭ or тАЬking-size,тАЭ but under variant usage тАЬbite-sizedтАЭ and тАЬking-sizedтАЭ are listed.

The same goes for those farmersтАЩ/farmers/farmerтАЩs markets. As our reader noted, [i]тАЬSheesh! How many ways can you find this expressed on any given day?тАЭ

It would make more sense to use тАЬfarmersтАЩ market,тАЭ as it indicates a market where there is usually more than one farmer selling their wares, but a Google search yields no consistent usage or hard-and-fast rule.

Oh, and one more thing:

Use тАЬbatedтАЭ breath, not тАЬbaitedтАЭ breath. The word тАЬbatedтАЭ is the abbreviated form of тАЬabated,тАЭ which means to subside or put an end to. << http://writersreliefblog.com/?tag=/bate ... ted+breath (http://writersreliefblog.com/?tag=/bated+breath+vs.+baited+breath) >>


What is the origin of "bated breath"?

Dear Straight Dope:

I pride myself on my knowledge of word and expression origins - after all, I have acquired most of it from reading your columns/books for over five years. But recently I was stumped, and even after consulting my Straight Dope Reference Library, I still had no answers.

Pray, could you search your reference library (AKA gray matter) and tell me - what is the origin of "bated breath"? I, and many of my associates, had mistakenly thought it was "baited." As a confessed member of the teeming millions, I can do nothing but embrace my ignorance, and turn to you for guidance.

тАФ Leslie in Wilmington, DE

What, Leslie, you thought maybe people were chewing on worms? If your extensive research had involved a dictionary, you would have easily found the word "bate," meaning:
"To moderate or restrain (a variation of "abate"): to bate one's enthusiasm, and, "to lessen or diminish," and "with bated breath - in a state of suspenseful anticipation."

"Bated breath" has been around a long time. Here's the first cite in the Oxford English Dictionary: "1596 Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice i. iii. 125 'With bated breath, and whispring humblenesse.'"

Maybe someday the Teeming Millions will all invest in a good dictionary, but I won't bate my breath. << http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... ted-breath (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1414/what-is-the-origin-of-bated-breath) >>

Oh, and one more thing: Is it 'Assholes' or 'Arseholes'?

ceejay
June 17th, 2009, 00:21
Is it 'Assholes' or 'Arseholes'?
A fundamental question, indeed :clown:

piston10
June 17th, 2009, 05:14
Smiles, yes, I've taken the bait (not 'bate').

Perhaps we should go for a compromise and say it's both assholes and arseholes, depending where you come from. It seems to me that the two spellings reflect the different pronunciations in North America and the UK.

However, there's no doubt that 'arsehole' has the priority in time. By the time of Chaucer (Middle English) 'ers' (an Anglo-Saxon word for the rear end of an animal) had become a common vulgar term for the human backside. (Thought our gay community might be touched by an example from Chaucer: the moment when, in the Miller's Tale, the love-lorn Absalon, who has earlier been tricked into kissing the arse of the woman he loves when she sticks it out the window in the dark of night, returns for vengeance, but is met this time with the arse of her BF, Nicolas - who sounds a much better bet for a bit of rimming; seems to know what he's doing. Nicholas is a cocky young bastard, but, as you will see, gets his come-uppance.

This Nicolas was risen for to pisse,
And thoughte he would amenden al the jape; [improve the joke]
He sholde kisse his ers er that he scape.
And up the window dide he hastily, and out his ers he putteth pryvely
Over the butok, to the haunche-bone;
And therwith spak this clerk, this Absalon,
"Spek, sweete byrd, I noot not where thou art." [don't know]
This Nicholas anon let flee a fart,
As greet as it had been a thonder-dent, [thunder clap]
That with the strook he was almost yblent; [blinded]
And he was ready with his iren hoot [hot poker]
And Nicolas amid the ers he smoot.]

Well, that's probably enough high culture for one post. Just to say that by the sixteenth century the word had become 'arse' and has remained so in UK English until today.

I agree it's a question that faces us often. "Is that an asshole or an arsehole?" I've asked myself many times. My answer, let's say, "depends"...

June 17th, 2009, 06:27
Someone (thanks for the PM, asshole) reminded me that in Gone Fisting's former incarnation (Hedda) that poster misused the term "peak" for "pique".

June 17th, 2009, 06:59
"Is that an asshole or an arsehole?"

'Arsehole' is more guttural so I can see the appeal.

Smiles
June 17th, 2009, 07:17
My dear Piston,
I would have hoped that a man of your upbringing (the Eton/Wimbledon/Hamstead/Cornwall cottage circuit) would have naturally chosen the 'bate/'bait' controversy over the 'asshole'/'arsehole'. But, seeing as how you have apparently taken the low road, a question: (on this Board) do you think it possible to bate an arsehole, or ~ in Amuricun ~ bait an asshole? What sort of bate/bait would you choose?
And then there's the fun & games of bating/baiting Thai guys: call the game "bating/baiting butts" (rather than assholes/arseholes) . . . . i.e. the High Road.

And thanks for the excerpt from The Miller's Tail: oh that this accident should never happen to any member here, should nose or tongue find themselves happily wedged up a round-apple Thai ass/arse ... (then) "this Nicholas anon let flee a fart".
Middle English much preferable to Latin on this low road board.

June 17th, 2009, 23:41
Someone (thanks for the PM, asshole) reminded me that in Gone Fisting's former incarnation (Hedda) that poster misused the term "peak" for "pique".

Sorry, Curious, but unlike you I have no former incarnations, incantations or carnations.

Oh, and Smiles, its Hampstead.....and why should an American and an Irishman educated at Haileybury, of all places, know anything about "proper English usage in general" (capital "E", please Smiles)? As for the Miller's Tail - are you baiting me?


Quisque comoedum est

piston10
June 18th, 2009, 05:48
Smiles, I chose as I did because, being who I am, I find discussions about arseholes/assholes more fun that bate/bait discussions; though at a pinch I might join a masturbate/masturbait discussion. And, I think you will understand, as someone who comes to Thailand as often as possible, I'm not into making Big Hairy Deals.
I appreciate your reply, but I think someone has misled you about the 'cottage circuits' I've been on over the years. I won't deny having circulated the cottages, but your list doesn't answer to the facts. I have never cottaged in Cornwall - too far away, the 'ers-end' you might say of England; nor in Eton, where, so they tell me, there is little cottaging because the boys only have to wait for the prefects to invite them to their rooms for tea and toast in the late afternoon; nor in Wimbledon, where I heard the competition was too keen - though only in recent years have I met the gentleman who gave rise to the rumour. Hampstead I will admit to, though even there it hasn't been the cottages so much as the wide open spaces. (I'd like to take back the thousands of hours of my life spent on the Heath; but, oh, was it fun! Some low life , of course, but, my dear, outweighed by the celebrities I've had there. One of my most important contact points with the worlds of theatre, showbiz and politics. They love a bit of rough!)

[And yes, I know, this all depends on the cottage/cottaging slang being known by an international audience; but I can't be bothered to google in order to find out whether it's just a UK gay expression. Such a lazy slut!]

Mlomker, you've got a point. To me, 'asshole' in the American pronunciation always seems a bit prissy, a bit Manhattan, not earthy enough for what we're up against.

Khor tose
June 18th, 2009, 06:54
Quisque comoedum est

Comoedum is the nominative or subject.. Quisque (everyone or everybody) is the actual subject of this sentence so it is comoedus (direct object) not comoedum.


I thought it only fair to correct your Latin since everyone else is correcting your English. :cheers:

June 18th, 2009, 22:15
[quote="Gone Fishing":1majkqcz]Quisque comoedum est

Comoedum is the nominative or subject.. Quisque (everyone or everybody) is the actual subject of this sentence so it is comoedus (direct object) not comoedum.

I thought it only fair to correct your Latin since everyone else is correcting your English. :cheers:[/quote:1majkqcz]

KT, Quid Fit? Minime senuisti!

Audio, video, disco , KT. Illius me paenitet, dux - lapsus calami. Cuiusvis hominis est errare sed credo nos in fluctu eodem esse id est revera linguam latinam vix cognovi sed abusus non tollit usum.

I wonder if we learnt at the same alma mater, KT - Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus ?

Meum cerebrum nocet. Absum.


On the other hand, KT, what if comeodum was being used as an adjective (as in everyone is given to acting / performing comedy) rather than a noun?

Die dulci freure!!

Khor tose
June 19th, 2009, 07:27
On the other hand, KT, what if comeodum was being used as an adjective (as in everyone is given to acting / performing comedy) rather than a noun?


You would have to change the verb to make it into that sentence. I believe that would be future perfect or pluperfect?????????. As it reads now it is clearly Everybody is a comedian. Subject direct object verb. I agree that Latin is hard on the brain, but it is made harder by all the new use of the old words. I finally had to look up quid fit on the internet as I could not figure out what you meant by why up or what up. It is now slang for whats happening but it should be quid fit este.

June 20th, 2009, 09:05
Someone (thanks for the PM, asshole) reminded me that in Gone Fisting's former incarnation (Hedda) that poster misused the term "peak" for "pique".

WHAT! GF is Hedda the Hydra????
I'm devastated.

Smiles, what are you quoting Shakespeare for? Everyone knows he couldn't spell worth a ...darn. Never bothered to check a Websters and couldn't even spell his name right half the time.

[youtube:36iwc8tq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdH2ODFYV5s[/youtube:36iwc8tq]

June 21st, 2009, 23:33
[quote="Gone Fishing":3nm4q5ez]
On the other hand, KT, what if comeodum was being used as an adjective (as in everyone is given to acting / performing comedy) rather than a noun?
..... I agree that Latin is hard on the brain, but it is made harder by all the new use of the old words......[/quote:3nm4q5ez]

Maybe I should have said a participle, or verbal adjective (subject, adjective, verb)? Who knows - not me, after all I have always admited that revera linguam latinam vix cognovi. Me ineptum.


WHAT! GF is Hedda the Hydra???? I'm devastated.

Don't be, kenc. Non sum Hedda - hoc est verum et nihili nisi verum !!

Curious - Te futueo et caballum tuum. Tum podem extulit horridulum!

June 22nd, 2009, 12:52
Curious - Te futueo et caballum tuum. Tum podem extulit horridulum!Thanks for that, Hedda.

June 25th, 2009, 10:07
[
WHAT! GF is Hedda the Hydra???? I'm devastated.

Don't be, kenc. Non sum Hedda - hoc est verum et nihili nisi verum !!

Curious - Te futueo et caballum tuum. Tum podem extulit horridulum!

Ok Smartypants. Try your hand at this one!

Civile,
Se ergo.
Fortibus es inero.
No vile,
Deus trux.
Vadis inum?
Causan dux.

June 26th, 2009, 17:21
Aah, from Orellius by Quintus Horatius Flaccus - beter known as Horace to his friends!!

I think "Te futueo et caballum tuum" is a little more useful for this forum.

June 29th, 2009, 08:17
Aah, from Orellius by Quintus Horatius Flaccus - beter known as Horace to his friends!!

I think "Te futueo et caballum tuum" is a little more useful for this forum.

Give up so easily??
Translation:
See Willi
See her go.
Forty busses in a row.
No Willi
they is trucks.
What is in them?
Cows and ducks. :cheers:

Ok, I admit I had to google "Te futueo et caballum tuum" .

Nice comeback darlin'.
I guess we're even.
I love 'ya too. :hit: