New to Thailand.

hello,
I will be visiting Thailand and the S.E asian countries in the winter. I will be staying about 10 days in Thailand . I am just coming out so new to all this and thought I would treat myself!
Out of the ten days, i wan't to spend a two or three day trip to the tiger sanctuary in kanchanaburi and do an elephant ride and stay ina floating boat there.

I am new to all this so was interested in going there. I think Bangkok is too big for me , so was thinking of Pattaya. I was wondering for the trip how would it be possible to arrange for company. i did read the forums, but was wondering how far is Kanchanaburi from pattaya? I was thinking of leaving my baggage and valuabales ina safe ina hotel room in Pattaya and travel with company with minimum stuff. Would that be doable. Just wondering would someone from a bar or gog-go be willing to go and would it be safe. Also in that area would it be a problem-social issues-if one takes men for company?

Any more advice on safety, bhat prices needed/expected etc would be appreciated. I do tend to go for somewhat muscular men-not bodybuilders-but defined and masculine but versatile. Thanks...
My dates aren't fixed yet-probably before or after new Years.

Out of the ten days, i wan't to spend a two or three day trip to the tiger sanctuary in kanchanaburi and do an elephant ride and stay ina floating boat there.

Pattaya SE of Bangkok by a couple hours and Kanchanaburi is 3 hours NW of Bangkok, judging by Google maps and estimates I've been given on travel by car. I think you'll need to be more specific about your budget to get a good recommendation...buses are slow and cheap and you can hire a private car to anywhere if you're willing to pay for it.

Not going to touch the other questions since I also haven't visited yet, but I would recommend following the forums and reading some of the better blogs. The discussions about prices are endless and you can find anything that you're willing to pay for.

[francois]

hello,
I will be visiting Thailand and the S.E asian countries in the winter. I will be staying about 10 days in Thailand . I am just coming out so new to all this and thought I would treat myself!
Out of the ten days, i wan't to spend a two or three day trip to the tiger sanctuary in kanchanaburi and do an elephant ride and stay ina floating boat there.


I regret if I am cynical, but why come to Thailand for just 10 days and waste three of them in a tiger sanctuary? Don't they have zoos where you live?

[Beachlover]

He's doing a bit of a tour... not just seeing tigers.

Bangkok is in the middle between Kanchanaburi and Pattaya. The logical thing to do would be to spend 2-3 nights in Bangkok (spend some time there, it is worth it... an amazing city), then do your tour, then head to Pattaya or wherever you want to go last.

Thais are pretty cool about seeing two guys together. The only issue might be other tourists but this isn't really an issue unless you think that way.

Spending some time in Bangkok means you might pick up a boy to take with you. Go to DJ Station or something... plenty of cute, friendly Thai boys to chat up there.

Thanks for the replies.
:cheese: Yes they do have a zoo. Just always something I read about the monks and the tiger and you can go in and pet them and since I was coming there , thought I might as well visit.

just a little bit more info. I am just coming out and new to the whole gay scene. So I am just getting starting to go out. From the forums, it just looked like Pattaya was a bit smaller and easy to navigate and the hotels itself seemed a bit more gay friendly(I think the Ambience seems like a nice option?) I just don't wan't to overwhelm myself. Just wan't to take it slow and experience everything.

I have also not been to that side of the world and so am just cautios. Hmm it looks like Pattaya and the sanctuary are in opposite sides. How is bangkok for a day or two.. I did read about the other places for massage etc. Any gay friendly places there? For help with suggestions, I am looking for upto 1500-2000 bhat max a night and about the same in other expenses. Food/transportation and other will be extra of course. Just thought it might be fun to spend a day or two going up to the tiger place and spending a day in a riverboat-with some company. Just don't know the atmosphere there-is it as open? I don't care about looks-I have travelled a bit in the Middle East and so more worried about actual danger..

[Smiles]

" ... I was wondering for the trip how would it be possible to arrange for company .... Just wondering would someone from a bar or gog-go be willing to go and would it be safe.

Also in that area would it be a problem-social issues-if one takes men for company?

Any more advice on safety, bhat prices needed/expected etc would be appreciated. I do tend to go for somewhat muscular men-not bodybuilders-but defined and masculine but versatile. Thanks...
My dates aren't fixed yet-probably before or after new Years ... "
You'll have no problem finding a nice Thai man in any gogo bar who would be willing to take a ~ let's say ~ weeks trip with you. You'll obviously have to pay for everything during the time he's with you . . . plus paying him a daily amount . . . plus paying the bar he works in the daily off fee. The pluses add up! :blackeye:

Off the top of my head I'd suggest the guy you choose would be very pleased with a daily amount somewhere in the 1500-2000 baht range. The bar off fee would be in the 300-500 a day baht range.

But money aside, the most important part in choosing a guy to go with you for a week's trip should be compatability ... and all that that entails. There's a big difference between a short time in the sack with a gogo boy, and a weeks journey with him where you are together 24/7.
I would leave the trip part until the latter end of your holiday and give yourself 3 or 4 or 5 days in Pattaya looking around the bars and taking off a number of guys. Hopefully you'll find one who you have a mutual spark with. Also I would suggest that, for a long trip, you chose a guy who can converse at the very least in simple english (assuming that is your home language).

[francois]

[quote="tnn"]Thanks for the replies.
:cheese: Yes they do have a zoo. Just always something I read about the monks and the tiger and you can go in and pet them and since I was coming there , thought I might as well visit.

You have read about Seigfried and Roy and their pet tigers?

The advice from Smiles was excellent. Regarding danger in Thailand, I think best to keep away from those tigers and stick with boys.

I think best to keep away from those tigers and stick with boys.

lol. I've already got that tour booked but I'll be taking it when I'm in Bangkok. Have you heard of actual incidents at Tiger Temple? Every tour guide goes there so most of the tourists must survive.

[BenCH]

I am just coming out and new to the whole gay scene. So I am just getting starting to go out.

From my own experience: Concentrate on meeting boys if you're new to the scene (unless your main purpose for the trip is sightseeing).

Thai boys can be marvelous for a newbie. I will never forget my first nights and days with a Thai boy - just wonderful. Follow Smiles' suggestion: off a guy or several and see how it feels :happy3:.

Sightseeing can you do later - hopefully also on further visits - and it is much more enjoyable if you are more familiar with the scene and can take the "right" guy with you.

Have fun!

Thanks I am actually doing a bigger sight seeing tour first of several countries. Then I am just doing the last 10-12 days in Thailand.

Just me am just coming out so haven't been to a bar or a club here. Just working my courage up so this seemed like a nice way to relax after my trip and maybe give me some courage when I get back! I am just trying to do it slowly. i can always come back!

I will find some way for the tiger tour .

But on pattaya, just curious I was thinking of staying at the Ambiance . So how is Boyz Boyz Boyz? I would like anice massage too.Also any tips on etiquette. It appears you talk to a "mamasan" and then go from there if you like someone? It seems some of the others like Wild Boys and Krazy Dragon have better reviews. Does one have to watch for the police. Is it safe to walk the streets by yourself in pattaya? I might just stay at pattaya and take the advice of the others above and have some fun-it is about time for me!! if it works out I could find someone to accompany or go to the tiger tour by myself. Thanks everyone.

[adman5000]

Gee, for just joining today you seem to have to have done your homework on the forums. The resource area and dreaded neds are also good sources of info.

My general advice is:

Plan roughly but be flexible. (you seem to already have a good rough plan)

Budget roughly but don't penny-pinch.

Enjoy the people and culture primarily and the tour side of things secondarily. If I had 10 days in Thailand and was just coming out, I can think of a lot of things to do rather than a three day trip to see the tigers. I would take the three days and go for massages, visit different go-go bars, clubs or sauna, etc.

Be streetwise at all times but not overly cautious.

Read a bit about the culture if you are not familiar with it. There are many things to know that will make a big difference in how you are treated. When in doubt, be considerate and generous but don't get taken.

Don't write off Bangkok too quickly. For a first time visitor, it is an excellent place to learn how things work. Stay as close as you can to the heart of the action until you know what you like/dislike. (for example the Ambiance or Cafe Royale are good choices for a first time visit in Pattaya just as theTarntawan Place is a decent for first timers in BKK.) Most hotels will hold your excess bags for you while you travel elsewhere. Stay at a gay-friendly hotel that allows guests.

Don't take what the mamasan tells you as gospel. Ask the boy directly as well IF he speaks some English. Be upfront and candid about what you want.

Good luck.

Have you heard of actual incidents at Tiger Temple? Every tour guide goes there so most of the tourists must survive.

Yes - and at Nong Nooch. Compensation, regulations, etc, are rather different from the States. Remember, the monks are Buddhists, not the tigers.

Have you heard of actual incidents at Tiger Temple? Every tour guide goes there so most of the tourists must survive.

Yes - and at Nong Nooch. Compensation, regulations, etc, are rather different from the States. Remember, the monks are Buddhists, not the tigers.

And they're definitely not vegetarian.

[Art]

Out of the ten days, i wan't to spend a two or three day trip to the tiger sanctuary in kanchanaburi and do an elephant ride and stay ina floating boat there.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/69/204973944_d93b6d845f.jpg?v=1154538682

┬╗60 cities in 20 countries in 10 days.┬л Forget your barbarian travel plans!
Enter a go-go bar, look for two attractive men, and talk with them. Repeat
the procedure until you have found the right men for your purpose.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/3308013541_88b63d72cf.jpg?v=1235551081

Then talk with the person who is in charge of the costumes. Order a tiger and
an elephant costume. The size should fit all potential animal impersonators.
Discuss the details that are important for you, then give free rein.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2303/1993326384_1e85c9195f.jpg?v=0

Soon the costumes will be ready. Don't think for a second that it is ridiculous
to ride on animals in your hotel room. Thais clearly prefer gentle riding
sessions to Japanese or German SM sessions.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61N2Fi1nOXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

A bath tub is very much like your desired ┬╗floating boat┬л.

http://artstyleonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/wooden-bathtub.jpg

Don't plan, improvise. It's Thailand!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3302/3227999062_f128dbeaa6.jpg?v=0

Buddhist elephant or Muslim tiger? Up to you!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/3069968729_dcff97cbe7.jpg?v=0

And let your dreams come true!

[youtube:spl6bay3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmYk_VBelg[/youtube:spl6bay3]

The Tiger Temple is a great place to see as I have had customers head out there before. The tigers do roam freely and you can see the monks walking them around, and many times the tigers are not even bound.

If its just a matter of seeing some amazing animals, I would say Million Years Stone Park and Crocodile Farm in Pattaya. You can kill 3 birds with one stone. You can sit next to the adult and baby tigers, as well play with the elephants and do the elephant ride on the trek they have there. Croc tamer show, afterwards can take pics with the crocs, beautiful botanical and natural rock sculpture gardens. My favorite place of its kind.

As well for not your average touristy thing to do, I just went with my inlaws to Bang Saen, seen the beaches out there, they have miles of oyster beds and raw oyster bars lining the beaches, as well as a fairly nice beach compared to Pattaya. Then you have Khao Sammuk, which was really cool. You drive up a mountain road, about 1/3 of the way up, they have the wild monkey running loose, feeding on fruit you can buy from the vendors. Buy fruit the night before at the market to save abit of money. Then at the pinnacle, you can park the cars and go feed the monkeys and get pics with them. With a Chinese Buddhist Temple there as well, it makes for a great day trip.

You have to remember that Pattaya is the gateway to everything. Spend your first few days getting your bearings and having some fun. Keep the phone numbers of your favorite guests. When your ready to do the touristy stuff, you know you will have company then. You are safe on your own, just use common sense. Don't put yourself in any position you wouldn't feel comfortable in. If in doubt, don't be afraid to find a fellow foreigner in a bar, and make new friends and get their advice if you feel daunted. Its a great town, you are sure to have fun. No reason you can't do a bit of everything while your here. The time will pass by way too quickly, but I can promise you as soon as you leave, you will be booking your next flight back here.

Enjoy your first time over here, as there is no time like your first!!!!!

The truth about the Tiger Temple:

http://www.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Stor ... 72311.html (http://www.asiaone.com/Travel/News/Story/A1Story20080623-72311.html)

[Cees-Holland]

...Soon the costumes will be ready. Don't think for a second that it is ridiculous
to ride on animals in your hotel room. Thais clearly prefer gentle riding
sessions ....
Don't plan, improvise. It's Thailand!
And let your dreams come true!


So informative and very funny to read, thanks.

If anyone is planning on visiting (and therefore unavoidably financially supporting) the so-called "Tiger Sanctuary", they should read the following articles first which paint a far from rosy picture, featuring mistreatment, including the routine beating of the tigers with metal bars, illegal international trade, including selling/exchanging adult male tigers (more valuable for medicinal purposes, but far more dangerous and unpredictable) for more tractable females and cubs, the routine removal of cubs from their mothers after only three weeks, making it impossible for them to be socialised and ever returned to the wild, as well as documented fatal attacks:

http://www.careforthewild.com/files/tt_ ... -06-08.pdf (http://www.careforthewild.com/files/tt_news_release%2020-06-08.pdf)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... emple.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080620-tiger-temple.html)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Sto ... 393&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=6479393&page=1)

They are currently being investigated by the Thai authorities for criminal breach of Thai and international law, including CITES, and have been issued with a closure notice by the Thai Wildlife Bureau, although this has not yet been enforced (possibly due to the large sums of money involved).



Khao Sammuk - interesting, certainly. Remember that these monkeys are wild and can quickly become violent; under no circumstances try to hand feed them, as they will not hesitate to tear any fruit from your hands and avail themselves of anything else they fancy (cameras, phones, jewellery, etc). Even the youngest monkeys can inflict a very nasty bite, which will almost always turn septic due to the amount of bacteria in the monkeys' teeth, or a similarly unpleasant scratch. Another treat in store is that it is standard practice for the local hospitals to assume that any monkey bite is rabid, so you will have some extremely painful injections to remember your stay by. If you do go make sure you take a car with a driver, not your own or a rental, and that any damage to the car is the driver's responsibility, or you could find yourself paying for the various shiny bits that the monkeys have taken a liking to - on one visit I made I noticed a number of the local children amusing themselves by throwing soft fruit on to some of the cars/pick ups and I am sorry to confess that I was also amused by the sight of some of the passengers' expressions as they saw their antennas and wipers pulled off!

I would suggest...
Bangkok is not as bad at it sounds. Stick to the Silom area and the skytrian on your first trip

Kanchaburi is not as exciting as it sounds. Houseboats are fun with friends but otherwise a bore...unless you are really, REALLY into nature.

I would suggest, to a first timer, Purple Dragon tours.
(I know I sound like a broken record on the subject and no, I don't own stock in the company).

Get your bearings on your first trip. Bangkok and Pattaya. I garauntee you will come back for more and more. That's how I started out.




Have you heard of actual incidents at Tiger Temple? Every tour guide goes there so most of the tourists must survive.

Yes - and at Nong Nooch. Compensation, regulations, etc, are rather different from the States. Remember, the monks are Buddhists, not the tigers.
Alas, the regulations in the States didn't prevent a tiger in SF from mauling a keeper and a year later from escaping and killing a Zoo patron.

[edited to correct some egregious spelling errors due to too many Manhattans]

Alas, the regulations in the States didn't prevent a tiger in SF from mauling a keeper and a year later from escaping and killing a Zoo patron.

The article that Bunny posted was actually rather sobering. I'm reconsidering that side trip. I've booked a guide for three days in Bangkok but I told him that we'll probably just wing it when it comes to the itinerary.


[edited to correct some egregious spelling errors due to too many Manhattans]

:cheers: :drunken:

Looks like I might skip the Tiger sanctuary too. I thought it was all rescued cubs-but looks like they are breeding cubs :pale: . But thanks for all the suggestions-it gives me a lot of options to plan and a little bit more confident.

So if I do spend a few days in Bangkok, I was wondering for massage, which ones seem good. Looking at the reviews Aqua and Hero seemed good. Any must see shows that would be worth watching. Also if I go into the show venues, would there be pressure if I decide not to choose and walk away. What is the etiquette for tipping if you are in the bar? Thanks!!

[TrongpaiExpat]

Hero is quite reliable but go early on weekends. Hero caters to locals and Thais and as such some of the boys do not speak English if that's important to you. Aqua caters more to Farang tourists. Senso is easy to get if you want to pay a premium for fancy digs. Many like Banana lower prices for less posh rooms and reliability. It's all a crap shoot.

Some very sensible and useful advice especially from smiles and adman 5000.
If you are just coming out ,Thailand is certainly one of the least inhibited places in the world, and Thai people are non judgemental about sexuality.
One item of common sense advice given to me when i first started visiting Thailand and like yourself a bit of a novice, (many years ago) about gay thailand was : if you are not sure of yourself you are better taking a boy off from a bar, than a casual pick up from places such as the beach. If then you do have any problems(esp over money) at least you can go back to the mamsan, who will always try to sort things out for you, with a casual pick up you have absolutely no way of redress. And if you are alone on the beach many boys will approach you , for sure .