Hopefully, This Will Clear Out Some of the Riff-Raff

BREAKING NEWS:
Immigration crackdown on border runners

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com) -- Thai Immigration Bureau has issued a new regulation to be enforced from today, June 1, 2009.

In a crackdown on foreigners who regularly abuse the tourist exemption rule of getting 15 days stay at border entry points, the Immigration Bureau has confirmed and informed thaivisa.com of the following new regulation:

A foreigner who has entered the kingdom four (4) consecutive times on 15 days tourist exemption stamps, will not be allowed to leave the country and reenter Thailand. The only option is to exit Thailand and re-enter via an international airport, which will allow a further 30 day stay.

Thaivisa.com has today confirmed the new regulations with the Immigration checkpoints in Pong Nam Ron and Aranyaprathet at the Cambodian border. We have also got confirmation from bus visa run companies that the new regulations are enforced from today June 1, 2009. Immigration checkpoints bordering Laos, Myanmar and Malaysia are expected to enforce the regulation shortly.

The new rules does not affect holders of visas issued abroad. Foreigners are advised to apply for a Tourist visas or Non-Immigrant visas at a Royal Thai Embassy or consulate outside Thailand instead of abusing the 15 day exemption rule.

As usual, holders of Tourist visas will be given 60 days stay while Non-Immigrant visa holders will be allowed 90 days stay.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-06-01

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Immigrati ... 69827.html (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Immigration-Crackdown-Border-Runne-t269827.html)

I can't say I'm surprised. The visa-run crowd are probably not the higher-spending holiday tourists that they want to have around.

There are still options--we'll just see a whole lot more education visas for Thai language students. It wouldn't hurt to learn more of the language, anyway.

For many years I have obtained three month Non-Immigrant visas from the Honorary Thai Consulate in Denver, Colo. In response to the visa request form requiring that I state my reason for applying, I have always stated "Research for a book on Thailand." (thay never asked how I would conduct my research.)
The last time, the application form required that I provide a letter from the publisher. No provision for independent publishing.
Now, I have to get a two month tourist visa with additional re-entries. I assume this policy is enforced at all overseas Thai consulates.
Cheers

[mahjongguy]

For many years I have obtained three month Non-Immigrant visas from the Honorary Thai Consulate in Denver, Colo. In response to the visa request form requiring that I state my reason for applying, I have always stated "Research for a book on Thailand." (thay never asked how I would conduct my research.)
The last time, the application form required that I provide a letter from the publisher. No provision for independent publishing.
Now, I have to get a two month tourist visa with additional re-entries. I assume this policy is enforced at all overseas Thai consulates.
Cheers

Until a year or so ago, the honorary consulates (Denver, Houston, a few others) were known to be welcoming and generous. If you wanted a 4-pack of 90 day visas, just ask.

Then they were apparently taken to task by the ministry, and they tightened up a lot.

Still, they seem to be cooperative folks and it never hurts to ask. My daddy said "you don't get what you don't ask for".

I'm hoping that this will be applied only to those who cross into Thailand, stay the full 15 days, leave, cross into Thailand etc. There are a number of ex-pats who live in Vientiane who regularly cross into Thailand for shopping for a day or two in Udon Thani or Nong Kai and then return to Vientiane. Having to fly from Vientiane to Bangkok or Chiang Mai every fifth trip will be a huge imposition for them.

Besides it won't rid Thailand of riff-raff like Bugs Bunny.

[Dboy]

The only thing different that I've noticed at the Consul's lately (I do the 1 year Non-Imm "O", nationality US), was that they asked for a "letter" from my language school. It was an odd request I thought, because I wasn't applying for the student visa(ED), I applied "O" Tourism and stated that the school I attend does not sponsor for the ED. The Consol said that they really didn't care what the letter from the school actually *said*, they just wanted a letter for a supporting document. It was easy to obtain..I simply asked the school (AUA Pattaya) to send me back a PDF file on letterhead stating the list of the various courses I had previously attended...that was all it took. Handed over a copy of the letter and along with a bit of this monopoly money we have in the US, and a few minutes later got the new stamp. No problems.

And BTW, if you do go for the 1-yr tourist visa, you don't really have to state anywhere that you want 1-year... You just hand them the correct amount of cash for the 1-year and they seem to figure out which one you want. At least that's always been my experience.

Dboy

All part of our cunning plan. The net tightens, and already the overland routes into Thailand are barred to Poles, Ukrainians and anyone coming from a country whose name ends with the suffix '-stan'.

Following our successful dry run last year the final part of the programme will be to close the airports to everyone except holders of business visas and Burmese military ID cards.

This will leave those of us who are already here gloating at the rest of you who are locked out like hungry kids with their noses pressed to the window of a luxury cake shop. Occasional titillating photos will be posted on the site to keep you interested and frustrated while we enjoy the local wild-life free of competition. So much to look forward to......

One only hopes that holders of the elusive and exclusive APEC Business Card will still be allowed to travel freely, so that we won't be deprived of Homi's presence on these shores (yes, he is still alive and well).

locked out like hungry kids with their noses pressed to the window of a luxury cake shop

lol. I read the incredibly long thread about this on Thaivisa. It basically only impacts people that do not get a multiple-entry visa before leaving their Western country of choice. Someone suggested that a flight to Australia once per year to obtain another multiple-entry tourist would be the most cost effective approach, if you don't qualify for another kind of visa.

They say that multiple-entry tourists are hard to get issued in the non-Western countries but the Ed (which is technically a 3-month with 3-month stay extensions--no need for border runs at all) can be had with a land crossing. It seems to me that there are enough ways to remain legit without too much fuss.

[Sen Yai]

....we won't be deprived of Homi's presence on these shores (yes, he is still alive and well).

Thanks for keeping us up to date with news of The Kernel. It's good to know that some one has concerns for his health and happiness. Well, maybe just his health.

..... It seems to me that there are enough ways to remain legit without too much fuss.

It isn't a question of "fuss",ML, but a question of money!! I did visa runs every 100 days or so (90 days + whatever extension I could get) for nearly 15 years, until I was old enough to get a "retirement" visa.

What surprised me most about my fellow "visa-runners" was that most of them were well past the retirement age and lived here full time on whatever pension they had or what they earnt, unofficially, in various ways. They all wanted to remain "legit", or they would not have been doing the trips at all, but they simply did not have the funds available to get any sort of long-term visa. This situation was made worse for foreign couples (both foreigners) when Thai Immigration, reasonably logically, required each person to have the required funds for a retirement visa, whereas previously they had unofficially accepted a single person's requirement to cover both.

The only requirement I find a little strange is that if you are married to a Thai then you only need half the money you would for the visa if you were single!

How did these people support themselves as retirees if they couldn't even scrape together 800,000 baht to fulfill the immigration requirements? Or were they *gasp* working illegally, rather than just sitting on their butts?

How did these people support themselves as retirees .....?

Maybe you could stick your head out of the door and ask the others in the "luxurious holiday residence for homosexual elderly or disable men" and ask them?

Only joking, of course, litoralis cuniculus (actually litoralis lepus sounds better).

The only requirement I find a little strange is that if you are married to a Thai then you only need half the money you would for the visa if you were single!

My guess is that they are reasonably assuming that the Thai can do most of the shopping and pay half the price that you would. lol.

Regarding the cost, I'd be more bothered by all the wasted time. 15 years of 90-day runs must have been exhausting for you.


How did these people support themselves as retirees if they couldn't even scrape together 800,000 baht to fulfill the immigration requirements?

A fair question. That's around $24k US for a couple. Not a vast sum unless you're planning on dying soon.

From what I've read they generally allow a combination of government pension to total the required amount--seems like a reasonably liberal policy. I read that they don't recognize private pensions, though, which would require some people to have additional savings.

15 years of 90-day runs must have been exhausting for you.

Only when it came to having to converse with the other farangs.


From what I've read they generally allow a combination of government pension to total the required amount--seems like a reasonably liberal policy. I read that they don't recognize private pensions, though, which would require some people to have additional savings.

Never believe what you read - I thought you would have realised that by now. Private pensions have always been allowed and the policy now is that evidence of income/interest from bank accounts, share dividends, etc, is also acceptable. As far as the American Embassy is concerned, no evidence whatsoever is required - you simply tell them a figure, swear an affidavit that it is true, and they give you a letter to say that is what you have done and Thai Immigration accepts it.

There are a few minor technicalities, but basically you need either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a letter from your embassy confirming that you have a monthly income of 65,000 baht, or a combination of the two. If you originally applied when the requirement was less and you have renewed without any breaks then you only need whatever the amount was when you first applied.

Never believe what you read - I thought you would have realised that by now.

lol. I don't believe a word you say.

I do realize that everything is always changing and it depends upon who you ask. Reading forums like Thaivisa does give you a general idea of what to expect, though.


no evidence whatsoever is required - you simply tell them a figure, swear an affidavit that it is true, and they give you a letter to say that is what you have done and Thai Immigration accepts it.

From what you've described the process is easier than I thought...I'd rather misunderstand in that direction than the other.

[Smiles]

" ... seems like a reasonably liberal policy. I read that they don't recognize private pensions, though, which would require some people to have additional savings ... "
Incorrect. The financial requirement for the 12 month 'retirement' visa specifies 'income', not 'pension'. From where you receive the income is not the point, only the amount.

Most folks refer to this visa as a 'retirement' visa, but in actuality it's not necessarily that . . . the official title is 'Long Stay' visa, and the recipient does not need to be retired. It probably received the nickname 'retirement' because (1) you cannot qualify for this type of visa unless you at least 50 years old, and (2) most foreigners who hold the visa are in fact retired. But you certainly don't have to be.
Any pensions you receive are absolutely counted as 'income' for the purposes of qualifying for this visa: << http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493 >>

3) you're not allowed to work on it.

Just a question:
After leaving the Kingdom for the 4th time (using a visa-run construction) you can't enter back over land and have to fly in. You will get a 30-day stamp.

What are the following steps? Another 3 1/2 15-day run + 30 day visa-exempt? Or do you have to leave the country for 90 days?

Most folks refer to this visa as a 'retirement' visa.....

Well, Smiles, that's what I call it because RETIREMENT is what gets stamped in my passport by Thai Immigration at the top of the annual Extension of Stay stamp!

[Smiles]

Most folks refer to this visa as a 'retirement' visa.....
Well, Smiles, that's what I call it because RETIREMENT is what gets stamped in my passport by Thai Immigration at the top of the annual Extension of Stay stamp!
The point above was that the Non Imm Type O(A) 12 Month Visa is issued to you if you are 50 or over, and fulfill the other criteria. Actually being retired is not a requirement.

Smiles, are you are saying that it is possible to use a work permit with a retirement visa?

[Smiles]

" ... Smiles, are you are saying that it is possible to use a work permit with a retirement visa? ... "
No, I'm not saying that. Just because one may not work, doesn't mean he's retired.

You cannot work in Thailand while holding a Non Imm 12 month Long Stay Visa. (And as I mentioned above, it is NOT a specific 'retirement ' visa.) You must apply for a different, work allowable visa to be able to work in the Kingdom. I don't know what that designation is as I have no desire to work ... I am after all, retired. Check out ThaiVisa message board for details regarding work permits & visas.

This is what a Non Imm 12-month Visa looks like pasted into my passport. As you can see, working is prohibited. (As well, it makes no mention of 'retirement')

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Personal/visa31.jpg

No, I'm not saying that. Just because one may not work, doesn't mean he's retired.

Thanks, I assumed that a business visa was required but there always seems to be something that I haven't heard of before. I understand that a lot of people work over the Internet in one form or another and people don't get work permits to do so.

Tell me more about the Ubekistan/Kazakstans and anyone with a "stan". I met some on the plane who asked me to help fill their Immigration Card into Bangkok. What are they doing there. There was 1 guy with 2 women. Hooking? I heard of Russians hooking in Pattaya pity they were women.

" ... Smiles, are you are saying that it is possible to use a work permit with a retirement visa? ... "
No, I'm not saying that. Just because one may not work, doesn't mean he's retired.

Quite so, Smiles - they could be having a twelve month sabbatical, or "resting" if they were an actor.....(and some accuse me of being pedantic .....)

You cannot work in Thailand while holding a Non Imm 12 month Long Stay Visa. (And as I mentioned above, it is NOT a specific 'retirement ' visa.)[/quote]

Quite so, again, Smiles. When you try to renew it in Thailand, you will find that you get an Extension of Stay stamped into your passport, with a RETIREMENT stamp - that is what is known as a retirement visa. Pretty simple, really.....


Thanks, I assumed ..... I understand .....

When will you stop assuming and finally realise that you do not understand???

It is illegal to do any paid/rewarded work in Thailand, of any description, without a work permit. No ifs, no buts, end of story (though I can understand, in the light of some posts, why you are confused). What you can get away with, here or anywhere else, is a different matter entirely.

What you can get away with, here or anywhere else, is a different matter entirely.

My UNDERSTANDING is that you'd have to incorporate (with a Thai having majority ownership), hire 4 Thais for every farang (yourself in this case), you have to pay farang a minimum of 50k/month, and you further have to prove that a Thai couldn't do the job...to get a legal work permit.

I'd like to know how many people are doing that so that they can buy/sell stocks in their brokerage accounts or operate one of the many MLM-type Internet businesses? :cheers:

I'd like to know how many people are doing that so that they can buy/sell stocks in their brokerage accounts or operate one of the many MLM-type Internet businesses?

Uh, I think that would be about zero. Give or take...zero.

.....and you further have to prove that a Thai couldn't do the job...

Well, that's a new one on me. Not quite sure where you got that from, or of its veracity, or how you would go about doing that without causing offence - as far as I know (and, as I have said before, I have no first-hand experience of work permits - or, for several years, of working!) there are simply lists of jobs that aliens are permitted to do and jobs that are restricted to Thais.

The Thai Department of Employment definition of "work" is pretty all-encompassing ( http://www.doe.go.th/service3_en.aspx ):

тАЬ Work тАЭ means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits



I'd like to know how many people are .....(etc, etc)

The Thai DoE and Police probably would too!

there are simply lists of jobs that aliens are permitted to do and jobs that are restricted to Thais

Upon further review, I think you are right but I have seen that bullet point listed elsewhere. They are protecting the manual-labor type of jobs and not anything that a farang is likely to want to do.

It looks like there is also a 2 million baht minimum capitalization for the firm/1 Million if married to a Thai. I guess being married makes you a better business person? heh.


тАЬ Work тАЭ means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits

Indeed. One could argue that having your retirement funds in a savings account, earning interest, to be an income. You had to use some mental energy to determine what bank to deposit it in, didn't you? Thailand isn't the only country with vague laws that can be selectively enforced but they did a fine job with this one.

[quiet1]

My UNDERSTANDING is that you'd have to incorporate (with a Thai having majority ownership), hire 4 Thais for every farang (yourself in this case), you have to pay farang a minimum of 50k/month, and you further have to prove that a Thai couldn't do the job...to get a legal work permit.brokerage accounts or operate one of the many MLM-type Internet businesses? :cheers:
I've kind of lost track of the discussion here, but if you are talking about having your own business, and are an American, do a Google search for "Amity treaty." Americans are able to own and operate their own business in Thailand with far less restrictions that other foreigners.

At one point I was interested, and was knowledgable about it, but it's been a while. The thing that killed it for me is you must have a physical business address, and most condos (including mine...) won't permit businesses to operate out of the residential units. For what I wanted to do (export silk furnishings for some interior design friends of mine in USA), it wasn't worth paying rent someplace. But, I recall that I could own/operate that business with no Thai partners.

a Google search for "Amity treaty."

Interesting. I once researched that in regards to the Netherlands...they have a very similar streamlined process.