Words of wisdom for a newbie....

Well fellas, I'm just finalizing my plans to move to Thailand in September for a minimum 6 month sabattical. I plan on settling in bkk, try to work part time teaching a few days a week to keep me busy and spend long weekends exploring southeast Asia....well let's be honest Phuket for scuba and Pattaya for the trouble I can get in.

Bit on me, Canadian from Vancouver, 43, pretty fit, non drinker (I know, I know, stop looking at me like that) looking to just mix up things a bit and also flee Vancouver during the Olympics....oh and my occasionally manic lesbian boss. I'll be coming over with enough funds to enjoy a pretty leisurely life, but as I said, I need to work just to stay out of trouble.

So, after all your time here, how about weighing in on 2 or 3 of the things that you wish someone had told you before you came to Thailand.

Cheers

Don't fall in love with the first sweet young thing who sits on your face.

That already happened with the 2nd boy I offed from Wild West :blackeye:

I also learned, a good short time doesn't mean 2 days with him will be.

lol

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Well fellas, I'm just finalizing my plans to move to Thailand in September for a minimum 6 month sabattical. I plan on settling in bkk, try to work part time teaching a few days a week to keep me busy and spend long weekends exploring southeast Asia....well let's be honest Phuket for scuba and Pattaya for the trouble I can get in.

Bit on me, Canadian from Vancouver, 43, pretty fit, non drinker (I know, I know, stop looking at me like that) looking to just mix up things a bit and also flee Vancouver during the Olympics....oh and my occasionally manic lesbian boss. I'll be coming over with enough funds to enjoy a pretty leisurely life, but as I said, I need to work just to stay out of trouble.

So, after all your time here, how about weighing in on 2 or 3 of the things that you wish someone had told you before you came to Thailand.

Cheers

you sound absolutely delightful and what a lucky chap you are..6 months in Thailand ! And a manic lesbian boss.I understand..I have one for a wife. Well she's a more maniac than manic.

I have some wonderful words of wisdom that really can only be imparted over a long lunch preferably in a 5 star restaurant but Bangkok, Pattaya..Phuket..anywhere really !.

And I''ll do the drinking for both of us.

(Don't forget to check out the fab new The Venue in Jomtien when you visit Pattaya and you haven't lived until you become a regular at Krazy Dragon) :thumbright:

Always keep a spare 500bt note tucked away in your desk drawer for ad hoc visitors. There's nothing more embarrassing (and impossible) than asking a boy to give you change from a 1000bt note when you've beaten him down to 500 for the session. (I presume you already know that here in Pattaya under the new austerity conditions 500 or less is now the going rate, with none of that mullarky about '1000 short time or 1500 long time'.)

[Patexpat]

Acknowledge that you will be a prime target to be someones ready made ATM - the truth is you WILL be rooked by someone at some point early in your stay. When it happens don't go all maudlin or angry, just LEARN from the experience and move on. The biggest problem that I see is that people just refuse to acknowledge the truth that their new found friend isn't a virgin and actually doesn't have a sick buffalo and then to learn from their mistakes.

So take everything you hear with a (large) pinch of salt .. and I am sure you will have a fab time!

[vnman]

That already happened with the 2nd boy I offed from Wild West :blackeye:

I also learned, a good short time doesn't mean 2 days with him will be.

lol
With this in your file I would hardly call you a newbie.

Like I said many times before: Don't confuse business with love. Six months is a perfect time to load your batteries. I hope you can find a school that is hiring for such a period, but its a good way to stay in touch with reality I think.

Enjoy!

[RichLB]

I think all the above advice is right on the mark. I would add, however, to rethink using BKK as a base. Personally I find the city difficult and stress provoking. Pattaya is just two hours away by bus and, for me, far more relaxing and friendly. I'd try out each other the places you've talked about before putting down your 6 months roots.

And, while the bars are often the initial attraction to a place, think about what else you will do during the days. Other than shopping, I really don't know what Bangkokians do. Here in Pattaya we always have the beach lots of places within a 10 baht song tao ride, and plenty of other expats who are easy to meet and always open to newbies.

I think all the above advice is right on the mark. I would add, however, to rethink using BKK as a base. Personally I find the city difficult and stress provoking. Pattaya is just two hours away by bus and, for me, far more relaxing and friendly.Yes but he'd miss out on the chance to meet Bugs Bunny.

He would likely not have a chance to meet me in Bangkok, either, as I do not keep company with the likes of English teachers.

If you want to teach English, you will probably need a TEFL or TESL certificate (at least), which you can get here in LOS, but it takes a few weeks to get it. And... it will be a challenge to find a school willing to contract with you for only a few months of teaching.

[Shuee]

dont be as gullibly as i often am about the little fibs you will get told just to get more money from you. always challenge these fibs, unless you unfortunately become love blind. To find someone to trust in the gogo game is rare,
thais like socialising in groups of friends & you may find yourself picking up the bill unexpectidly at times, or surprise visitors when you out that will join you & order on your bill
this is hard to control at times, but have fun

[TrongpaiExpat]

He would likely not have a chance to meet me in Bangkok, either, as I do not keep company with the likes of English teachers.

Who do you keep company with and what venues you frequent?

I do not keep company with the likes of English teachers.

A fringe benefit of getting a CELTA that I didn't know about.

Liam, if you don't need the money then I wouldn't bother working. It isn't legal on a tourist visa and although that might not matter, there are other things to do with your time. There are a variety of language schools that offer education visas, so you could kill some time learning/improving your Thai and possibly avoid a visa run. You could also look at volunteer opportunities.

If you want to teach English then it may be tough to do so without credentials and on a short-term basis (you might be limited to private tutoring and you'd have to find that work). The usual credentials is a 4 week/120 hour certificate and an undergraduate degree. The cert is a lot of work and will set you back $1500 or more--more trouble than it is worth if you aren't serious about it. You can learn more than you'd care to know at eslcafe.com.

You could also look at volunteer opportunities.

Many, if not most, of which also require a work permit.

[krobbie]

Stick to the plan and use BKK as your base. I can't imagine anything more stifling for a man your age getting caught up in all that bitching and back stabbing.

At least BKK is more cosmopolitan with endless things to do. The galleries and museums alone take a good while.

I hope you have a ball and post while you are there. That should keep you/us amused.

Cheers
krobbie

Well, the teaching gig just seems to work out for me, school is out for October so I can get my TESL training in that month and maybe land a job when the school break is over. With the added incentive that Beach Bunny won't want me to buy him a drink because he's too hi-so to hang out with teachers....how could I choose anything else?

Plus as I'm willing to work part time, I've seen posting on Ajarn which would fit the bill. In the long run, who knows, I may wind up staying longer than 6 months.....I can always find work in Canada so I'm not in any huge rush to come back.

Bangkok is definitely the place for me, I love hanging at the beach and all, but sitting there all day getting massaged and eating deep fried food would be the death of me. I'd look like Jabba the Hut in no time.

[vnman]

Liam, if you don't need the money then I wouldn't bother working. It isn't legal on a tourist visa and although that might not matter, there are other things to do with your time. There are a variety of language schools that offer education visas, so you could kill some time learning/improving your Thai and possibly avoid a visa run. You could also look at volunteer opportunities.

If you want to teach English then it may be tough to do so without credentials and on a short-term basis (you might be limited to private tutoring and you'd have to find that work). The usual credentials is a 4 week/120 hour certificate and an undergraduate degree. The cert is a lot of work and will set you back $1500 or more--more trouble than it is worth if you aren't serious about it. You can learn more than you'd care to know at eslcafe.com.

I wonder where all your wisdom ( even when its well meant) comes from since you never been to Thailand.

You can get your TEFL online for 168 to 320 usd: http://www.i-to-i.com/tefl/online-tefl/course.html

The language center game is a Micky Mouse business (always exceptions) with Micky Mouse rules. Plenty of jobs to find where you don't even need credentials.

i think your plan of getting a part-time job is a smart one. Living in LOS for six months doing nothing can make you lose track of reality. A few hours a week of work will keep you nicely with both feet on the floor.

Many, if not most, of which also require a work permit.

If that is true then a charity would be more likely to obtain one for a short-term visitor than an employer.

I wonder where all your wisdom ( even when its well meant) comes from since you never been to Thailand.


An abnormal amount of time spent on eslcafe since I seriously explored TEFL as an option.

Does Thailand accept I-to-I for a work permit? Most countries will not. Who do you know that has found a decent job with it? Since first-hand knowledge has now been established as the standard, please provide your sources.

[vnman]

I wonder where all your wisdom ( even when its well meant) comes from since you never been to Thailand.


An abnormal amount of time spent on eslcafe. What quality of job have you obtained with an I-to-I cert? It's generally the butt of jokes.

That whole industry is a joke. If there's anyone looking for a teaching job for 6 months or less, with no experience and expects to find it at a high end school, GOOD LUCK!

That whole industry is a joke. If there's anyone looking for a teaching job for 6 months or less, with no experience and expects to find it at a high end school, GOOD LUCK!

I think it's a cool thing for students right out of college to try since it allows you to live overseas and pay your way. Even with a master's degree in ESL and years of experience you'll never have a dime to put in a retirement account unless you intend to ply your trade in the Middle East. Everybody wants to work TEFL in Thailand so it's a "race to the bottom" when it comes to income.

An adult would be a lot better off paying the $800/yr to Pro Language or Thaiwalen and spending a few years as a "language student" if you want an annual visa. That's the approach I'd decided on, anyway. Almost every Asian country has visas for language students...you could spend a decade going from country to country if you wanted to.

I'm saving my pennies. :bom:

[francois]

(I presume you already know that here in Pattaya under the new austerity conditions 500 or less is now the going rate, with none of that mullarky about '1000 short time or 1500 long time'.)

Yes, this is a good time to take advantage of the boys while they are starving for some baht.

[Wesley]

Pay no mind to any of these queers, just go find a good man and have a good time, what ever stay away from the expat community and stick with the rice boys. They tend not to stab you in the back when you turn your back...

Wishing you All the best,

Wes

"Rice boys"? A slightly racist term, don't you think? I dated a black guy once, and I don't think he would have taken too kindly to haveing been called a "watermelon boy".

[zinzone]

Always keep a spare 500bt note tucked away in your desk drawer for ad hoc visitors. There's nothing more embarrassing (and impossible) than asking a boy to give you change from a 1000bt note when you've beaten him down to 500 for the session. (I presume you already know that here in Pattaya under the new austerity conditions 500 or less is now the going rate, with none of that mullarky about '1000 short time or 1500 long time'.)

Hey guys:

would you agree or not as- talay_ho claims- that 500 baht is now the going rate?
\or is that just for the desperate addicted boys in Sunee?

Input appreciated!

[TrongpaiExpat]

Always keep a spare 500bt note tucked away in your desk drawer for ad hoc visitors. There's nothing more embarrassing (and impossible) than asking a boy to give you change from a 1000bt note when you've beaten him down to 500 for the session. (I presume you already know that here in Pattaya under the new austerity conditions 500 or less is now the going rate, with none of that mullarky about '1000 short time or 1500 long time'.)

Hey guys:

would you agree or not as- talay_ho claims- that 500 baht is now the going rate?
\or is that just for the desperate addicted boys in Sunee?

Input appreciated!

It was clear to me that the post was made by a troll looking to start a food fight. IGNORE.

If you want to start an other discussion on the going rates of tips and under what circumstances and for what services start a new thread or take a look at the search function. Then even if your careful in the wording it will deteriorate with mud slinging. CFS is also good for such basics with less mud slinging.

[zinzone]

Always keep a spare 500bt note tucked away in your desk drawer for ad hoc visitors. There's nothing more embarrassing (and impossible) than asking a boy to give you change from a 1000bt note when you've beaten him down to 500 for the session. (I presume you already know that here in Pattaya under the new austerity conditions 500 or less is now the going rate, with none of that mullarky about '1000 short time or 1500 long time'.)

Hey guys:

would you agree or not as- talay_ho claims- that 500 baht is now the going rate?
\or is that just for the desperate addicted boys in Sunee?

Input appreciated!

It was clear to me that the post was made by a troll looking to start a food fight. IGNORE.

If you want to start an other discussion on the going rates of tips and under what circumstances and for what services start a new thread or take a look at the search function. Then even if your careful in the wording it will deteriorate with mud slinging. CFS is also good for such basics with less mud slinging.

Thank you I have started a new thread.
By the way what is CFS?

Incidentally whilst as you say it might be a "troll" I know a Thai who recently went to work in Sunee Plaza and who tells me that some of the workers there are in fact agreeing 500 baht or less with customers......so.....

[TrongpaiExpat]

Incidentally whilst as you say it might be a "troll" I know a Thai who recently went to work in Sunee Plaza and who tells me that some of the workers there are in fact agreeing 500 baht or less with customers......so.....

Cruising for Sex:
http://web.cruisingforsex.com/bb/forumdisplay.php?s=6670d320364d08da1f244425a73c72c c&forumid=82

Yes, street trade in BKK often goes for 500 short time. I would not know much about Sunee. I'll leave it at that and let your new thread develop and maybe it will not turn into a fight.

[thrillbill]

My job in Thailand keeps me busy,but I see many retired or semi-retired guys get in the habit of hanging out together, having their cocktails, constantly going out to eat, and gossiping about silly things because they don't have a "life". Eventually they get out of shape and get unhealthy. Nothing wrong going out and socializing, but make it a point to join a gym (California Wow has some deals right now) and daily go to the gym to stay fit and get away from the slugs. Besides, there's some good eye candy at the gym and you'll meet some good people.

To keep busy, you could do some charity work.

Next, (my own general 2 cents) a "gay relationship" with a Thai is a bit different than meeting another gay in Canada or elsewhere in a Western or developed country. Most???...many???? of the Thai fellows (who are sweet and fun) come from poor backgrounds and have this attitude that the farang will be their ATM machine. Nothing wrong in paying for the date, but don't start buying the guy everything under the sun for him.

[a447]

I do not keep company with the likes of English teachers.
We know, Beach Bunny. You would be intimidated by their intellect.
Better to contribute (I use that term very loosely) to a board frequented by
boy-whore mongers ,
toilet cruisers and
old men patronizing places of (illegal) boy prostitutionwho spend their time in Thailand looking for rentboys. Much better than English teachers.


I'm just here for the laughs.
So are we, Beach Bunny, so are we. You're priceless!

Well fellas, I'm just finalizing my plans to move to Thailand in September for a minimum 6 month sabattical.

Liam,

I am a bit slow with some of these things, but it is difficult to see quite what you want to do here. You plan on spending the majority of your time teaching, although you do not need the money, based in Bangkok, with a few weekends in Phuket and Pattaya. Why?

If you want to see some of Asia, or even a good bit of Thailand, then why spend most of your time in a classroom doing something you could do at home?

If you have a desperate urge to teach overseas, and you are any good at it, then why not go somewhere where it will make a real difference, rather than where most of your fellow teachers will have got their degrees at the University of Khao San Road and their teacher training at MBK College?

Why spend your time in a gym, meeting a bunch of pot-bellied stick insects, sweaty slobs and the posers of Pattaya when, again, you could do that at home?

If you are just trying to fill out the time, then why bother?

Forget about doing any of the things you can do at home, forget about doing any of the things you can do when you are old and infirm, and concentrate on doing everything you can do NOW and make the most of it - the chance may not come again.

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Hi Laim!

Nice to see another person frm Vancouver herein the Forum. I have posted my story in another posting. But in short, I know you will love BKK and Thailand. I have been several times. Many of my Vancouver gay friends have also visited with us and loved it.

You do need to use caution. A Thai you may meet will give you the impression he is very much in love with you; yet, he has the same story for each foreigner he meets. I even observed some of these guys dropping off guys at the airport and kissing them, telling them I love you, hurry back, even shedding a tear.... yet within a short time a sign is displayed and they are greeting our foreign men arriving. Sort of sad.

I met a sweet and loyal beautiful Thai in Boston 12 years ago at graduate school (he, student, me, professional staff), and he and his family and mine are close. He is from a Chinese/Thai family, one of the elite in BKK, so no issues with what is being described here. However, our life together has been a dream and joy! We'll be living in BKK or Pattaya or Hua Hin in the next few years during the winters and in beautiful Vancouver in the summers.

I am fortunate as my Thai partner gives me the inside knowledge of what goes on between young Thai men and white foreign men in LOS. He lets me know about all the pitfalls and intrigue, et al. You probably get the idea as I suspect you are a bright man.

Whatever, enjoy, be cautious and absorb this beautiful land and people.

Ron

To keep busy, you could do some charity work. I thought this had been discussed before - he has to have a visa that lets him work. Whether it is paid or charity work does not matter.

[thrillbill]

Fattman says:
I disagree that relationships here are different to anywhere else. Any mixed race relationship, whatever the mix, will have some cultural issues to deal with, and that's not unique to Thailand.

And the contention mentioned above is typical of those who only meet boys through go-go bars, Silom, Pattaya and the like. There is a whole different gay world in Thailand if anyone makes the slight effort to go look for it.

I agree with Fattman, two people with cultural, relgious, ethnic, or even education background can have its challenges. But I was basically talking about the "take care of me" attitude with many of Thai relationships one gets into--it is a bit different than meeting another gay lover in other countries. And when I wrote about this, I was talking in general terms not specifically at the "commercial boys". I have had a couple Thai bf's that were not "go-go-boys", but had their own jobs and some education beyond the norm (one owned a clothing shop) but still had this attitude of the farang will take care of everything without realizing that we also have financial obligations back home to take care of. (Once I sat down with my Thai bf and went over the expenses I have back home (condo payment; retirement; credit card expenses, support to a parent fighting cancer...and such, then he understood. )

Right, fattman. You're not going to meet one of those guys in a Sunee Plaza go-go bar. If you swim at the bottom of the pond, all you're going to find is scum.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Right, fattman. You're not going to meet one of those guys in a Sunee Plaza go-go bar. If you swim at the bottom of the pond, all you're going to find is scum.

why does this rabbit speak so much nonsense ?

Some of the greatest marriages in history right up until today, male and female, have been forged between, hustlers, courtesans,madams , prostitutes and their clients. Working as a go-go dancer is just a means to an end.. to imply that Sunee Plaza or anywhere else of entertainment is the "bottom of the pond' with the implications that carries shows a total misunderstanding of how Thais think, is meant as an insult and merely demonstrates a hung-up Puritan Western attitude that has pervaded the whole of Asia.

It's bad enough that the West has financially raped all of Asia of it's wealth for hunderd's of years, they now wish to impose their own questionable moral standards.

"My job in Thailand keeps me busy, but I see many retired or semi-retired guys get in the habit of hanging out together, having their cocktails, constantly going out to eat, and gossiping about silly things because they don't have a "life". Eventually they get out of shape and get unhealthy"

An admirable stance thrillbill, but some of us consider that to be a lifestyle choice..implying others who don't live as you do, don't "have a life" is subjective of course and cannot be proved or disproved.

One of my greatest lunching pals in Pattaya..indeed whose life revolves around lunch & dinner with various companions fueled by copious amounts of delicious gossip, is also a world famous writer and a man who discovered, managed and produced some of the world's major entertainment acts and has written huge hit songs for a diverse group of singers from Elvis Presely to any number of major stars.

But bully for you and do an extra dozen push-ups for me ! :thumbleft:

[pyro]

Well said O'Booze.

If you swim at the bottom of the pond, all you're going to find is scum.I asked my friend who teaches science and he confirmed what I thought - scum is what you find floating on top of a pond.

Gone Fishing, just to respond, I'm not really looking to work full time....I can do that here! I've seen a few jobs posted, usually at Ajarn where I could work 2 or 3 days a week, part time. There are a few reasons, I'd like to be able to interact with some of the locals and get to know them, I'd never say no to extra money and most importantly I'd like the structure that working will add to my life.

Flights in and around southeast Asia are so cheap that going to Malaysia, Hong Kong, Vietnam for a few days is easy to do. Plus I'd prefer to spend a few days in one place, head back to my home base and explore around when the mood strikes.

I wish I could be like Lunchtime O'Booze and his friends, but I don't relax and live life at a leisurely pace very well. I have a little TOO MUCH energy.....so actually working part time is putting the brakes on for me.

[a447]

I asked my friend who teaches science and he confirmed what I thought - scum is what you find floating on top of a pond.

Yes, Curious, yet another example of Beach Bunny jumping in with nasty, negative comments without any thought. His fingers obviously work faster than his brain.

The gogo boys in Sunee Plaza (or anywhere else, for that matter) are simply involved in a business transaction (it's called supply and demand, Beach Bunny) - something Beach Bunny purports to know a lot about. Since when are people in the sex trade "scum?" Beach Bunny, you ARE an old man after all. Such thinking belongs to the 1960's or thereabouts. You've just let the cat out of the box!
The Boys at Krazy Dragon could teach you some valuable lessons on dignity, self-respect and civility and how to be friendly and positive towards others. You do not need to "off" them to experience this. They treat us like we treat them - and so it should be.
If they are "scum" then most of us on this board would take them anytime over a bitter old cunt like you.

Gee, you guys are right. Sunee Plaza go-go dancers are the cream of Thai society.

[a447]

Gee, you guys are right. Sunee Plaza go-go dancers are the cream of Thai society.

How are we "right?" We are not judging them....YOU are, you dickhead!

Once I sat down with my Thai bf and went over the expenses I have back home

That isn't just a Thai thing. There's this mentality everywhere that Americans have more money and young people, in general, don't understand what life costs. I had to have this conversation with a European guy that I was dating--he seemed to forget that American higher education, health insurance, retirement, and many other things that they get for 'free' whereas I have to pay for them. I've gotten in the habit of telling people that I earn half of what I actually do because non-Americans don't seem to really understand what that number means.

I don't relax and live life at a leisurely pace very well. I have a little TOO MUCH energy.....so actually working part time is putting the brakes on for me.

I have a similar problem. One of the advantages of this board for me is its soporific quality; unless it is raining I get up soon after 5 every morning and leave the house by 5.30 for my morning constitutional, usually after less than four hours' sleep - I used to only need three, but age is creeping up on me!

If you think teaching will help, and you enjoy doing it, then good luck. My only advice would be to ensure you have a work permit and you are aware of the regulations, or your dream holiday could become a nightmare - many get by for years without a work permit, but that does not mean you will. I have no personal experience of work permits, but as far as I am aware any work permit is only valid for one employer (not one type of employment) and that as soon as the work permit is invalidated/cancelled, so is the visa.


Some of the greatest marriages in history right up until today, male and female, have been forged between, hustlers, courtesans,madams , prostitutes and their clients. Working as a go-go dancer is just a means to an end.....some of us consider that to be a lifestyle choice..implying others who don't live as you do, don't "have a life" is subjective of course and cannot be proved or disproved.

And mine, for six years so far, is one of them. He is not ashamed of what he was, so why should I be? He certainly made more people happy doing his job than I ever did doing mine. I have met a few "middle class"/well-off gay Thais while living here and know some and their families reasonably well, despite none of them being "my type", but without exception I have found them to be even more egocentric and self-obsessed than any bar-boy I have ever met.

My particular "lifestyle", both now and when working, was my own choice and would suit/have suited very few others, but that does not make it any better or worse than any one else's - just different. Those complaining that others "don't have a "life"" seldom have an enjoyable one themselves, particularly when they obsess about their pot-bellies and their own unhealthy diet fads.

L O'B, another "well said".


Once I sat down with my Thai bf and went over the expenses I have back home (condo payment; retirement; credit card expenses, support to a parent fighting cancer...and such, then he understood.

Just as you would have understood had he gone over his expenses (house/shack payment, loan sharks @ 10% per month, support to a parent...and such). Get a life.


.....He is from a Chinese/Thai family, one of the elite in BKK.....my Thai partner gives me the inside knowledge of what goes on between young Thai men and white foreign men in LOS. He lets me know about all the pitfalls and intrigue, et al.

Yes, that sounds just like one of the Chinese/Thai Bangkok elite - running down their own countrymen who are not "hi-so" at every opportunity, particularly if they come from Issan, while extolling their own virtues. Scum, as has been pointed out, floats at the top of the pond.


.....there are plenty of gay Thai men with money who are not the least interested in taking farang for a few baht, but it seems very few farang get to meet them......I've never been asked for money, and I rarely visit places like Silom or Pattaya. Move in a different world, and you meet different people.

There are also plenty of gay Thai men without money who are not the least interested in taking farang for a few baht, but it seems very few farang get to meet them either; before I met my partner I met many, some on a regular basis. You and I clearly have a different view of the meaning of "rarely", given your frequent apparently well-informed and up to date posts on the Bangkok bar scene.

As I recall you also mentioned that this was a "world" which was difficult for foreigners (tourists or residents) to access and your introduction to it was through your Thai partner whom you met in England, not here in Thailand.

Aging, unattractive farangs approaching and trying to pick up people in coffee shops and the like deserve to be met with a loud rebuff - they are an embarrassment and an insult to their own country, where they would seldom dare to try the same thing.

Realistically it would appear that Liam is as likely to be stopped by one of the Thai Royal family for a chat when he is out shopping as he is to enter the cloisters of middle class Thai gay society - unless, of course, he catches the eye of one of them who is out and about in the gay bars, as it seems that while such a world may be socially satisfying it is far from sexually fulfilling and, as you and your partner do, they need to "slum it" occasionally. Who knows , at a "pretty fit" 43 he may well stand out sufficiently from the regular farang crowd to be noticed!

[Smiles]

" ... One of the advantages of this board for me is its soporific quality ... "!
Time to haul out the YukYuk Awards programme: A joy to observe Gone Fishing dipping his big toe into the Okeefanokkee-size(sp?) swamp of West Virginian hillbilly reality-show sensibility (for want of a better description ... indulge in your own metaphors please) which apparently is rife on Sawatdee lately.

For the Canadian version of soporifism(sp?), one can do no better than the hoary pile of cliches about Thai guys written by Ron-Heng Vancouver on the 3rd page of these here 'words of wisdom' . . . encompassing all but the Dead Buffalo story. Happy to be a proud Canadian.

[Art]

... move to Thailand in September for a minimum 6 month sabattical.

A sabattical? That must be a very special kind of battle! Ever heard of ┬╗shabbat┬л or sabbat?


In recent times, a sabbatical has come to mean any extended absence in the career of an individual in order to achieve something. In the modern sense, one takes a sabbatical typically to fulfill some goal, e.g., writing a book or traveling extensively for research.

Forget about doing any of the things you can do at home, forget about doing any of the things you can do when you are old and infirm, and concentrate on doing everything you can do NOW and make the most of it - the chance may not come again.

... going to Malaysia, Hong Kong, Vietnam for a few days is easy to do.
Half a year in Southeast Asia, and then a few days per country only? You must be really enquiring! Why of all things Thailand and not the Philippines? Because of the Thai flora and fora? You are of the old school?


The foundational Bible passage is Genesis 2:2 and 3, in which God rested (literally, "ceased" from his labor) after creating the universe, and it is applied to people (Jew and Gentile, slave and free) and even to beasts of burden in one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8-11, reaffirmed in Deuteronomy 5:12-15).
I see. A sex sabbatical, Rest & Recreation pure et dure, a genuine sexbattical!
Just disclose your wildest fantasies to our trustworthy posters, and their advice will be tailor-made.

And don't forget: Mr. Dream Transport will transport your dream to the most far-flung places,
that weird town with ┬╗Krazy Dragon┬л and the deck chairs included. You have been warned.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Gee, you guys are right. Sunee Plaza go-go dancers are the cream of Thai society.

I like to think so :cheers:

GF as usual running down every thing he doesn't agree with...... You assume I'm aging and unattractive.....As as for picking up people in coffee shops, I respond to others contacts...... I suggest you try to be less damning of your fellow posters - it invites the same in return.

Acually, Fatts, there was little of substance that I disagreed with in your post - it was your innuendo that I took exception to.

For my part, I know little of the Bangkok gay scene, as I have not been near it, in any form, for over fifteen years - nothing against it, I just dislike Bangkok. Consequently I had not realised, for example that it was now limited to Silom as your post indicates. Neither had I realised that your "informed" posts (as I considered them to be) were just that - informed, based on second hand information, rather than on any first hand knowledge. Quite a disappointment and quite a surprise too.

I made no assumption that you were "aging and unattractive", although I could have done so based on some of your previous posts about yourself, and I would in any case never describe myself as being either young or attractive (although it is, of course, all comparative). What you actually wrote was "One guy I pickup up in a coffeeshop" rather than that he picked you up - hardly the same thing. What I referred to, and have referred to previously, are those farangs who follow, approach and try to pick up people in coffee shops, shopping malls, supermarkets, etc, on the assumption that because they are Thais and this is Thailand so they are probably available. Opening chat-up lines my partner has experienced vary from "You go with me?" to "You like me?" to "Can I fuck you?".

Having also considered you to be a man of integrity and honesty, as well as informed, and having described you as such, I was even more disappointed to read the final line of your post, which I find faintly ridiculous given the content of some of your previous posts: "I've never been asked for money, and I rarely visit places like Silom or Pattaya. Move in a different world, and you meet different people."

Next time you post inferring your own social superiority and personal attraction I suggest that you think a little more about the meaning of what you are writing and that "you try to be less damning of your fellow posters - it invites the same in return."

[thrillbill]

Once I sat down with my Thai bf and went over the expenses I have back home (condo payment; retirement; credit card expenses, support to a parent fighting cancer...and such, then he understood.

FYI "Gone Fishing" , yes I have been up to Isaan to visit my BF's village and where he grew up at. I know about his hard life which makes me realize I won the lottery when I was born. Because I wanted my Thai BF to be on his own feet (knew him for 3 years at the time) , I "donated" more than 250,000 baht for him to get his clothing shop going when he decided to start a business in a different city (Pattaya's rent was too expensive, depends too much on tourists, and too much competition.) His shop is making a profit and he doesn't have to worry about no income during the slow tourist season like he did in Pattaya. I'm happy for him.

I wonder what kind of generousity you have given a close Thai friend , or is it just to your "money boys" for their one hour only service?

.....say your piece as I know you love to have the last word.

Correct, Fatts.

Arrogance is thinking that you are somehow socially superior to others here because your boyfriend happens to come from a wealthier than average Thai family and constantly reminding us of it.

Arrogance is boasting that you have "never been asked for money" for sex and thinking that those here are all stupid enough to believe you in spite of your previous posts on the subect, from Bangkok, to Pattaya, to your search for Thailand's "gay capital". .

Arrogance is thinking that those here are all stupid enough to believe that your carefully worded claim that you "haven't been to Silom, in the day or night, for a very long time, and have no plans to" has any more meaning than someone claiming they have not been to Boyztown for years while spending every night in Sunee Plaza and every day on Dongtan Beach.

Arrogance is calling someone a troll for no other reason than that you disagree with them, although the term could just as easily (and wrongly) be applied to you.

Arrogance is having having too many airs and not enough graces.

I am, genuinely, disappointed by your recent posts.

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

FYI "Gone Fishing" , yes I have been .....(etc, etc) .....I wonder what kind of generousity you have given a close Thai friend , or is it just to your "money boys" for their one hour only service?

How very generous and, I am forced to add, how very uncomfortably pecuniary for both of you.

Since you ask .....

Fortunately I have never had to spell out my own financial standing to my ex-"money-boy" Thai partner as he has never expressed any interest in it, although everything which I used to own is now owned jointly with him. It is simply of no interest to him - as an example, when I asked him for the letter giving him the access instructions and opening balance for one joint account which he had received earlier that morning in the mail, as a copy would have been useful to support any visa application, he explained that as I had told him I did not need it he had played with it with one of our dogs before tearing it up, and he retrieved the soggy mess from the waste-paper bin to show me in case it could still be used. Personally I do not see this as "generousity" but simply as an equal sharing of our assets.

My only other "close Thai friend" who has had less money than me has been my "ex", to whom I gave "sufficient" to set himself up in whatever he wanted, which included a house in Pattaya (which, to my enduring surprise, he still has). I do not see this as "generousity" either, as it was simply keeping my word to him and I would have been far happier (and wiser) giving him nothing.

FYI (!) I have not had any "money boys", or any boys of any other description, for any length of time, since meeting my partner seven years ago - it is not something that makes me feel superior, it is simply not necessary, and I quite understand why you, Fatts, and many others, still feel the need to indulge despite having your own BFs, although I do find it rather bizarre whenever doing so appears to be seen as some sort of shortcoming (no pun intended) by anyone posting here.

Well, the plane landed on Monday and I hit the ground running. Thanks for all the advice, believe it or not I actually listened! I'll be in Thailand for 2 months and a bit, mainly in Chiang Mai studying Thai at CM University and taking as many yoga classes as my body allows. I'll then to doing the usual tour for about 6 weeks, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia and maybe Indonesia.

So, here are how things are shaping up. Bangkok is the usual, hot and crowded. I had no problems at the airport, I didn't even get hassled on my way to the taxi stand. The only annoyance was a group of girls who were on their gap year milling about trying to read their Lonely Planet guides to figure out what to do.

I stayed a the Om Yim Lodge as I did my first visit, I won't be staying there again. I like the location, rate and the rooms but the staff was bloody surly this visit and I think the owner has gotten even crankier. There are so many other options for accommodations. Had dinner in the night market near Lumpini my first night with a Thai boy I met online. 24, university grad, perfect English starting work at a new hotel in Pattaya. Really nice evening and we wound up back at his place. Next night dinner with an expat acquaintance at Balcony Pub. It was really quiet as was Telephone across the soi. Not really seeing what the charm is about this place and why it stays popular, I know the food was nothing to write home about. Ended the evening down in Soi Twilight which was also incredibly slow, but had an amazing massage at Bonny, I believe my masseur's name was Nine. 30ish, nicely muscled, really great combination of massage and erotic touch, my toes curled quite a few times. Cost was 500bht for 90 minutes plus a 1200bht tip.

Wednesday I headed to Pattaya, love it or hate it, it has a beach and it has boys. I'm staying Baan Dok Mai in Soi Day Night. I love this area as it's off the beaten path a bit. I can't say enough nice things about BDM, the owner is friendly and charming and always is happy to answer any questions or give advice on pretty much anything I've asked about. The staff is top notch, so gracious and if they don't actually remember that you've been there before they certainly act like do.

I'm not hitting the bars while I'm here....I got my feet wet the last time I visited and the go go bar/boy scene doesn't really appeal to me. I hope this doesn't come across wrong but the bottom line is I'm 43, look younger am in great shape and always have guys in the 20's & 30's at home hitting me up so I don't see the point in paying for it when I can get it for free. Having said that, I met a cute 22 year old from Isaan online, new to Pattaya hoping to find work, preferably not in a bar but as he said, work is work. His English is not to shabby, we've hung out 2 nights and he has open invitation to call tomorrow for round 3. He's never mentioned money, the cost of his loom and not a peep about a water buffalo with a twisted ankle.

What have I done while I've been here? Well, the beach. It's slow.....there seems to actually be more Thai boys than tourists, the vendors are swarming like crazy but easy to ignore when you're wearing sunglasses and have your iPod going. Overall it's fine, there's water, sand, you don't have to bring anything other than a towel and there are some hot shirtless Russian boys in Speedos.

One more night and I'm off to CM where I'll be staying at the Lavender Lanna. I'll report back in on just how far along things have progressed with the reno's and the grand opening of the new bars they have.

Yes .... these cute internet-savvy 22 year olds from Isaan who are new to Pattaya and looking for a job all live on air. Have you met cdnmatt yet - he has some interesting views which you two young studs could discuss.

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Hi Liam

Glad to see you arrived safely there in Thailand, and trust that you will continue to find contentment there.

Your account about your arrival was interesting and thanks for spending the time to write it.
:hello1: