why the animosity to ladyboys?

im very new to this site,and also to the gay /bi scene ,having recently discovered a penchant for ladyboys.I have a ladyboy lover in bkk,and he/she tells me thay gay men hate her,especially the "bottom"gay men,whereas the "tops" are more understanding and friendly to her.It all seems very complicated to me,these sub-sections of our sexuality,at each others throats so to speak.What are your views on this?Is it all in her mind-do gay men dislike ladyboys?I was thinking of going to a sauna next time i am in bkk with her-would anyone pass comment?Would anybody care?I have never been to a sauna in thailand before?Do they compare to the mixed saunas you find in ,eg,germany?Please educate me-thank you

It all seems very complicated to me,these sub-sections of our sexuality, at each others throats so to speak. What are your views on this?
It IS very complicated. I sum it up as different strokes for different folks. Some gays like ladyboys, some don't. I should think most gays are tolerant with these different sub-sections, although as in any population, you have a certain number of unhappy indviduals that do not like anything.

I'm a live and let live guy.

I don't dislike katoeys for what they do in bed.

I dislike most of them because they are emotionally fragile, shrill, and just plain annoying to be anywhere near.

live and let live.

[maisoui]

I'm a live and let live guy.


I dislike most of them because they are emotionally fragile, shrill, and just plain annoying to be anywhere near.

This coincides with my experience. I also note that in Pattaya and Chiang Mai there are reports of roving gangs of theiving katoey.

However, as the long term respected poster, BB, aludes, there are exceptions and they should be as valued as any other member of society.

I don't think we should pay much attention to some newbie's friend who is stereotyping gays.

I'm OK with ladyboys, UNTIL they start harassing me. Their main role in some gogo bars seems to be pestering customers.

lADY BOYS CAN BE FUN, AND CAN BE NIGHT MARE, A THIRD OF THE CUSTOMERS LIKE THEM IN SOME WAY, SO IF YOU WANT TO BE A LADY BOY, HERE IS HOW TO ACHIEVE THE LOOK. BELOW .

[Shuee]

in my experience LB are by far the most annoying type in the gays areas of los, they can get in your face & spoil your fun, they can have extreme jealous mood swings, & the actions of vicious vengiance i have heard of have been by LB.
they are like women on heat with a pair of bollocks pumping testosterone into them!

but as with many life forms, we cannot put them all in this catagory, but from my personal experiences, in the main are as such

[Wesley]

just not my cup of tea, if it is for you enjoy

[gcboyz]

i was asked once why trannies :sign5: wore so much make up and perfume. the answer is simple. they are ugly and they stink.

i was asked once why trannies :sign5: wore so much make up and perfume. the answer is simple. they are ugly and they stink.


And what do you wear, dear? No need to explain why.

Re: why the animosity to ladyboys?

PostAuthor: Beach Bunny ┬╗ Sun 3 May, 2009 7:06 am
I'm a live and let live guy.

I don't dislike katoeys for what they do in bed.

I dislike most of them because they are emotionally fragile, shrill, and just plain annoying to be anywhere near.

Beach Bunny
Veteran Member


I agree 100%. I find most of their behavior to be embarrassing. They are like cartoon characters, society says THIS is what gays are like, so that is how katoeys act. Then once some one finds out that I am gay, they assume that I am the same way. I AM NOT. I have never worn a dress in my life, nor have I ever wanted to... Okay, once when I was 12 years old, but it was for Holloween and so it doesn't count. It doesn't count, does it?

ajarntrade

Well I think it depends on where you meet this ladyboys/katoeys. I have had a great time with a friend of a friend in DJ. She/he was very nice and even bought a lot of drinks. Great dance and a very funny evening. I have even seen one on a TG flight serving me a drink, I know because she/he had a very big adams-apple. Even in Siam Paragon I have been helped by a ladyboy, selling some perfume. Very helpfull. Ofcourse in the sex industry it might be different and annoying :flower:

[Khor tose]

I'm a live and let live guy.
I don't dislike katoeys for what they do in bed.
I dislike most of them because they are emotionally fragile, shrill, and just plain annoying to be anywhere near.

It sure doesn't sound like you are that kind of guy. I take people at face value. I do not care how they dress, what their orientation is, or what color or religion they are, but how they behave. I have found ladyboy to be little different then anyone else. Yes, many of them are emotionally fragile, shrill, etc, but that just makes them like so many gays and straight people I have met. Let me guess BB you also thinks all blacks play sports and eat watermelon, Mexicans are lazy, and Asians are all crafty schemers. Maybe you should get on the American talk radio circuit. You and Michael Savage would make a great pair.

I have even seen one on a TG flight serving me a drink, I know because she/he had a very big adams-apple. :


I'd have assumed TG did not allow transvestites to serve as flight attendants, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I'll ask next time I'm aboard.

[quiet1]

I'd have assumed TG did not allow transvestites to serve as flight attendants, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I'll ask next time I'm aboard.
I know for sure that UA and NW each have at least one post-op transexual flight attendant each, because I've met them. However, I always get confused with the terminology, so perhaps post-ops aren't transvestites? These two individuals dressed as male flight attendants pre-op.

I always get confused with the terminology, so perhaps post-ops aren't transvestites? These two individuals dressed as male flight attendants pre-op.

Correct: they are transsexuals - something they, at least, would consider totally different. One Warrant Officer in the British Army, for example, once homosexuals were allowed, was in a very ambiguous situation as a transvestite (where he could be allowed to serve, in what role, etc ?) but once he became a transsexual it was very simple as he was limited to those posts open to females - something he (she?) later protested about to the Equal Opportunities Commission on the basis that he was still legally a man (something not covered in Queen's Regulations (no pun originally intended!) and which smacks a little of "ladyboy logic" to me.

Both transvestites and transexuals, though, are referred to in Thai as katoey. I don't even know of any non-clinical language to differentiate the two.

[Khor tose]

Both transvestites and transexuals, though, are referred to in Thai as katoey. I don't even know of any non-clinical language to differentiate the two.

Do you mean non-clinical Thai language or non-clinical English?
In English a transvestite is a man who dresses as a women. A women who dresses as a man may also be a transvestite or a regular lesbian. A gay man who dresses like a women and likes men is probably a drag queen. Many transvestites are straight and prefer women, and are often entertainers. A transsexual is a man who identifies as a woman or a woman who identifies as a man. This may give you a headache, but often a man who identifies as a women want to be a women to sleep with other women. In plain English they are men who wish to be lesbians. The opposite side can also be true. However, when dealing with people there are many varieties outside of this Para dyne.
Why do I know this? Seattle has one of America's first transsexual centers, and they hold their yearly worldwide convention in a town near Seattle. Also, I have two close friends who are transexuals and neither of them are emotionaly unstable or shrill.
For further info: http://www.ingersollcenter.org/

I meant Thai. I know the correct terms in English.

The average Thai person does not differentiate between a transvestite and a transexual. "Katoey" refers to both.

Has anyone heard a colloquial Thai phrase to differentiate? I haven't.

... Also, I have two close friends who are transexuals and neither of them are emotionaly unstable or shrill....

Thank you KT.

I've been wanting to weigh in on this topic for a few days now but was not sure how.
I could try to psycho-analize "tranny panic" and closet Queens, or talk about all the Ladyboy Lovers on other boards who vehemently deny they are gay. I could endlessly argue about definitions or point out how media representations are demeaning of transgendered. And in a bad mood I might even say that "Drag Shows" and the Thai "Ugly Katoey" numbers are nothing more than Gay "Stepinfetchit's".

But ultimately the only thing that matters to me is that I care for someone who is "transgender" and I choose my friends based on weather they treat her with kindness and respect and acceptance. I garauntee you her Thai friends and family fully accept this person as s/he chooses to present her/himself without acrimony or recriminations and simply enjoying this fun, happy, gossipy, laughing person as is.

To paraphrase Voltaire in "Candide" - we must all learn to cultivate our own gardens.
My Garden is going filled with "Tranny Lovers' and other open minded friends.
And I've gotten to the age where I'm no longer interested in explaining or defining myself. I like what I like...whatever.

PS. I'm having pronoun difficulties. I've known this "she" as a "he " for 5 years and its gonna take a while to break old habits.

[TrongpaiExpat]

PS. I'm having pronoun difficulties. I've known this "she" as a "he " for 5 years and its gonna take a while to break old habits.

Speak in Thai.
He and she are khaw high tone.

"It" is also an underrated pronoun...

"It" is also an underrated pronoun...

You keep that up Bunny and you won't be coming to any of our Garden Parties!

[youtube:m1s7qqwq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQb2m6VJ-eo[/youtube:m1s7qqwq]

No offense intended, kenc. It ("mun") is what Thais are calling you and me every single day.

[vnman]

"It" is also an underrated pronoun...

lol

[DamienZ]

"Don't Dream it...Be It!!"

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper202/stills/3cx15n9x.jpg



DZ :thumbleft:

[Art]

Like languages with three grammatical genders they get the novice into trouble without granting appropriate compensation.


Research indicates that the earliest stages of Proto-Indo-European had two genders, animate and inanimate, as did Hittite, but the inanimate gender later split into neuter and feminine, originating the classical three-way classification into masculine, feminine, and neuter which most of its descendants inherited. Many Indo-European languages kept these three genders. Such is the case with most Slavic languages, classical Latin, Sanskrit, Greek, and German, for instance. Other Indo-European languages reduced the number of genders to two, either by losing the neuter (like Urdu/Hindi, most Romance languages and the Celtic languages), or by having the feminine and the masculine merge with one another into a common gender (as has happened, or is in the process of happening, to several Germanic languages). Some, like English and Afrikaans, have all but lost grammatical gender.

[danny99]

im very new to this site,and also to the gay /bi scene ,having recently discovered a penchant for ladyboys.I have a ladyboy lover in bkk,and he/she tells me thay gay men hate her,especially the "bottom"gay men,whereas the "tops" are more understanding and friendly to her.It all seems very complicated to me,these sub-sections of our sexuality,at each others throats so to speak.What are your views on this?Is it all in her mind-do gay men dislike ladyboys?I was thinking of going to a sauna next time i am in bkk with her-would anyone pass comment?Would anybody care?I have never been to a sauna in thailand before?Do they compare to the mixed saunas you find in ,eg,germany?Please educate me-thank you

I do not hate lady boys, just that I have no interest whatsoever in any effiminate male. As I have no, and have never had, the slightest sexual interest in girls/women why would I be attracted to 'make-believe' women? I even find women in general very boring social company and avoid them whenever possible.

Being with a straight boy as they discover the joys of sex [not love, not romance, just physical sex], just the action and re-action, no stupid questions, in fact you usually do not discuss it at all, just do it all and act natural afterwards. They then keep on calling around to tell all of their current girlfriend problems, and it all sort of starts again...never boring!

It's called being mates! And most mates do something with each other, although it is never spoken about.

I'm a live and let live guy.


I dislike most of them because they are emotionally fragile, shrill, and just plain annoying to be anywhere near.

This coincides with my experience. I also note that in Pattaya and Chiang Mai there are reports of roving gangs of theiving katoey.

However, as the long term respected poster, BB, aludes, there are exceptions and they should be as valued as any other member of society.

I don't think we should pay much attention to some newbie's friend who is stereotyping gays.

There are gangs of Ladyboys, also regular women, who ride the baht buses, picking pockets as they go. I along with my former boss and her husband were riding a baht bus, when a pair of ladyboys happened to try to pick my bosses husbands pockets. They are easily identified though. They will generally ride 2-3 on a baht bus together. One will sit next to you, the actual pickpocket. There will be another that will sit directly across from you, the lookout. As you pass over each bump in the road, the pickpocket will slide closer and closer to you, sticking her hand behind a large purse or bag, then into your pockets. Most people never know what happened till they go to look for something in their pockets.

To say that most people dislike ladyboys as a SMALL PERCENTAGE are pickpockets, is even stereotyping I think. I have been into quite a few LB bars, such as Blue Ice on Walking Street, Jenny Star Bar, and the Ice Bar, all in Pattaya. I think the vast majority of them are great company, and overall fun to hang around. As far as how they are treated by their peers, most women love ladyboys, as they are considered the pinnacle of beauty, and many women aspire to be like them. Many of the gay workers in Pattaya, to have an animosity towards ladyboys, as some of them feel that they are trying to change who they are by putting on all the makeup and wanting to be treated as women. I think many people are just jealous at how beautiful some of these ladyboys really are. The fact that people, no matter what there sexual orientation, find these ladyboys beautiful and want to be with them, again makes me feel it comes down to jealousy.

[Khor tose]

There are gangs of Ladyboys, also regular women, who ride the baht buses, picking pockets as they go. I along with my former boss and her husband were riding a baht bus, when a pair of ladyboys happened to try to pick my bosses husbands pockets. They are easily identified though. They will generally ride 2-3 on a baht bus together. One will sit next to you, the actual pickpocket. There will be another that will sit directly across from you, the lookout. As you pass over each bump in the road, the pickpocket will slide closer and closer to you, sticking her hand behind a large purse or bag, then into your pockets. Most people never know what happened till they go to look for something in their pockets.

To say that most people dislike ladyboys as a SMALL PERCENTAGE are pickpockets, is even stereotyping I think. I have been into quite a few LB bars, such as Blue Ice on Walking Street, Jenny Star Bar, and the Ice Bar, all in Pattaya. I think the vast majority of them are great company, and overall fun to hang around. As far as how they are treated by their peers, most women love ladyboys, as they are considered the pinnacle of beauty, and many women aspire to be like them. Many of the gay workers in Pattaya, to have an animosity towards ladyboys, as some of them feel that they are trying to change who they are by putting on all the makeup and wanting to be treated as women. I think many people are just jealous at how beautiful some of these ladyboys really are. The fact that people, no matter what there sexual orientation, find these ladyboys beautiful and want to be with them, again makes me feel it comes down to jealousy.

Yes, you definitely have my vote. Once again, welcome to the board.