Boyfriend's $$$

[aussie_]

My boyfriend lives in a rice village, no jobs available at present so no money. This walking ATM is carefull about handing over his money, we all know the stories of the love struck farang and his empty bank account. I have known the bf for over a year and I like his family and most of the relatives very much and stay with them often. The bf is not over the top with showing affection which does not help the situation.

I read blogs about other farangs spending many baht to build houses, bungalows and shops for their Thai boyfriends. I have already lent the family some money which I will never get back. At least I can see where the money went as they now have a washing machine and lockable windows on the house.

How much is suitable for a monthly allowance?

Am I being over cautious or is it time to move on?

If I start again with another guy it will probably end up in a similar situation.

[allieb]

With BF not showing enough affection your not getting value for money. Move on

You think it might be the same if you move on to another. Your probably right but you might get a better actor next time .

[RichLB]

This is a difficult question with a simple answer. You are not buying a computer or air conditioner. You are helping someone you care for. The amount you give is determined by how good it makes you feel to be of help. If you are concerned about "value for money" I think you'd be wiser to hire a sex worker; if you have real affection for the guy you will help as long as it makes you feel good to do so (determined by your financial resources).

Recognize the expectations of farang here in Thailand. Many Thais (almost all) believe in reincarnation. Your current life has been shaped by previous existences. Relative to them, they believe that you must have been a good person previously or you would not be financially comfortable. This earns you considerable respect and influence. Unfortunately, there is a downside, too. Since you are (have been in previous lives) a good person, it is expected you will be equally good and generous in this incarnation. They will believe you actually want to help them and not see your generosity as you being an "easy mark".

You set the rules and stick by them.

If your like me, I am a strong believer in the best thing you can buy him, is an education, so he can make a living when your not around one day, so I always include that in my allowance, for my guys special.

If you want to know how much to pay a long term lover, 2250 a week is what I consider fair, plus 1000 ever time you have good sex, less if you donтАЩt think sex is not up to standard, ruthless I know, but thatтАЩs how they work in Thailand. But out of that he pay family and any other exspenses make that clear.....The job they work at will fine them, if they do anything against the rules, then your find you have the best you can expect. If you think he can live on half that up country, try it and see, he will need all of in in big city like pattaya,

But I love my BS to look good and buy farang style cloths monthly, plus a nice phone, if lost sold or stolen 1000 baht phone to replace it, once every 6 months. Motor bike a big No.No. Unless you want him to be out with his mates all the time, or worst kill him self.

Jewelry, well I donтАЩt buy now, in the past I have bought like many, a shop load, to find it all sold, one boys mother sold with in 10 days, I got over that many years ago, when I bought a farm and then went to visit, had to build a house then a tractor then I had a stupid Idea as the Chickens were all eaten by snakes, I had bought previously, not a few, hundreds I said why not Get the new tractor and grow Pineapples, 4000 bought and planted, Rain's came, washed them into oblivion, so be very careful about living in a Village, word gets round, either Ji Dee farang, which translated to a Thai, Gives away money like a fool, or ji Dum is careful and sensible with money they respect that more.

So only give if you think is for the good of the family, as you have witnessed already, buy Things not give away money.

Good luck I agree it is wonderful down on the farm, they all know what your up to and if you are good man, they will give you such happiness, in a very basic simple but genuine way. if you are not a butterfly and stick to your main man, well thats fine if not like with me, they will bring you boy to take back to Pattaya so we can build big house, as one family told me, I declined, even though father say, him big koi yi same me, I said yes but age to small and that no good for me, in the end he made it on his own now has a Ji dee farang lives in UK , helps run farang hotel and then comes back to village with all his wages they are so happy and he such a nice guy.

[TOQ]

My boyfriend lives in a rice village, no jobs available at present so no money. This walking ATM is carefull about handing over his money, we all know the stories of the love struck farang and his empty bank account. I have known the bf for over a year and I like his family and most of the relatives very much and stay with them often. The bf is not over the top with showing affection which does not help the situation.

I read blogs about other farangs spending many baht to build houses, bungalows and shops for their Thai boyfriends. I have already lent the family some money which I will never get back. At least I can see where the money went as they now have a washing machine and lockable windows on the house.

How much is suitable for a monthly allowance?

Am I being over cautious or is it time to move on?

If I start again with another guy it will probably end up in a similar situation.


Hope you enjoyed my blog :)

john

[Bob]

Since you say he's from a rice village (which I think you to mean a small village in Isaan or up north) and presuming he's staying with momma/pappa at the family home, then I'm with Fattman on this one. Three thousand baht a month is more than enough to make life a little better for the bf and folks.

My only caution is not to start this unless that's what you really want to do....and I note this only because you made some comment that the affection between the two of you isn't all that great. He's "living" as best he can now, eating adequately (the Thais at home always seem to make do), and I'm really doubtful you'd be doing him any long-term favor by starting a regular payment and then stopping it down the road. And I'm not sure you'd be truly doing him any good by dumping a lot of money (a lot to a rural family, in my view, would be upwards of 5,000 baht a month) on a regular basis as it very well may alter his incentives for the future (as bleak as they may be anyway) as well as his family's and friend's views of him. I strongly urge you to do whatever you choose to do in view of how it will affect him and his family - and totally ignore the idea of what you think you personally can afford or that you would personally want him to have (i.e., separate out from the "how much" part most of your western thinking and feelings).

All in all, your question isn't easily answered.

[aussie_]

Hope you enjoyed my blog :)

john

Thanks for all of the valuable advise from the replies so far.

I was thinking of of your blog John and enjoy every new entry and the great photos. I have great respect for the investment you have made in Thailand for yourself and your partner. My boyfriend has cleared a block of land which he says he owns (I am yet to see the title) and told me that he wants to build his own house. Something similar to what you have done would be perfect in my bf's village but i am not quite ready to take that step. I can see that providing infrastructure where the bf can work and become self sufficient and also employ others in the village like your shop and bungalows is an excellent plan.

I have a lot to learn about understanding and dealing with the Thais before getting involved in a project of that size. You have been here for a while and I gather that you have learnt to deal with any freeloaders or the expectation that the farang is to host every event for large numbers of friends and relatives. I also guage from your blog that you can talk a lot with your bf while mine is very quiet and decisions about outings etc are made with very limited consulatation with me.

The short stays in the village are enjoyable with all the attention I recieve from everyone and my bf has two brothers who are real gems. They will take me on the motorcycle to the town to get food etc and there is never any expectation of a handout from them. It is only a couple of adult relatives that have spoilt the party with ongoing hints about how poor they are and I should be buying goods etc for them. It is still difficult to give them up after bonding with so many good people over the last year. Maybe the 3000 to 5000 monthly allowance and some discussion with the bf will be the way to go before making any big decisions about this relationship.

[TOQ]

As it turns out Choa will be hiring two people full time and around 4 part time. Yes I have been here awhile but that only shows me how much I don't know and how much more I need to learn.. It makes a difference in my situation because I live here and justify the expense a lot better . It would be very hard for me to spend the money that I have spent if I wasn't here full time.( What I have spent here would barely make a decent down payment on a house anywhere else) I am fortunate that the issue with family is no issue at all. Not once, ever, have they asked for anything. It could be because they could see how much I was already doing for one of their own. Papa comes around most everyday to say Hi and see his boy. He seems to be happy that he has a new roof on his patio, no longer has a utility bill to pay and always seems to have some money for food :) Papa is 87. He is a Jewel.

My only suggestion would be to do what you feel comfortable doing. If you have any second though or concerns, don't do it. Your instinct feeling will be you best judge of action.

john

[jolyjacktar]

Well aussie it goes a bit like this:-
Bt 3000 for sick buffalo
Bt 4000 for sick mama in Hospital.
Bt 20,000 for new buffalo as old one just die.
Bt 10,000 for new gold ring to tell you i lub u lots
Bt 6000 for air travel to come see you my telak in Pattaya
Bt 1000 to buy telak present
Bt 6000 as papa now sick
Bt 6000 as new buffalo now sick too.

Ok this is very tongue in cheek and done for a laugh but i think sending money can be an endless pit if your not careful, so just be sure this is what you want to do buddy.

[latintopxxx]

Aussie, you seem to know that you are being led down the proverbial garden path and are looking for an excuse to carry on down the same path...this can only end badly.
Already you mention that he is not as attentive as you would like him to be.
If sex is the primary obejctive of this relationship then you should link it directly to that, be very clear...no confusion. Bot performs and puts a smile on your face...boy gets paid...guilt trips are simply not my scene.
as for some other poster statements about hinm being a Budhist and reincarnation..what crap! The average Thai knows full well that those with power make their own good fortune...and that if you are shot por..as most of them atr up north condems thenm to a lfe of poverty now and in the after life...thats why they are willing to sell themselves and their offspring to the highest bidder...sad but true and lets not pretend otherwise.

o decide what you want out of this relationship and go about getting it.

[anakot]

My boyfriend lives in a rice village, no jobs available at present so no money. This walking ATM is carefull about handing over his money, we all know the stories of the love struck farang and his empty bank account. I have known the bf for over a year and I like his family and most of the relatives very much and stay with them often. The bf is not over the top with showing affection which does not help the situation.

I read blogs about other farangs spending many baht to build houses, bungalows and shops for their Thai boyfriends. I have already lent the family some money which I will never get back. At least I can see where the money went as they now have a washing machine and lockable windows on the house.

How much is suitable for a monthly allowance?

Am I being over cautious or is it time to move on?

If I start again with another guy it will probably end up in a similar situation.

You sound like you know what you are doing even if the heart is racing a bit ahead of the head. I have been in similar situations although not going so far as living in the country village. Because I have no plans to live in LOS in the short term I have gently but firmly refused those requests for large sums in cash. Preferring instead to buy the occasional thing and of course to give generously when I am there. I bought him a 16000 baht phone in 04 and within a few months it had been pawned/ given to sister or something. So never again.

Have heard of some fairly horrendous stories of FBOQ being drained totally dry and having to return home empty handed so only give what you won't miss and only loan what you don't really need.

Refusing to give any more funds does not mean the end of contacts. Just moves them into a more interesting phase where the value of money is downgraded. If he continues to keep in touch then there is something more basic operating than the simple 'feed dog when hungry'...

Just my thoughts but you seem to have a handle on the issues.

[puckered_penguin]

You set the rules and stick by them.

If your like me, I am a strong believer in the best thing you can buy him, is an education, so he can make a living when your not around one day, so I always include that in my allowance, for my guys special.

If you want to know how much to pay a long term lover, 2250 a week is what I consider fair, plus 1000 ever time you have good sex, less if you donтАЩt think sex is not up to standard, ruthless I know, but thatтАЩs how they work in Thailand. But out of that he pay family and any other exspenses make that clear.....The job they work at will fine them, if they do anything against the rules, then your find you have the best you can expect. If you think he can live on half that up country, try it and see, he will need all of in in big city like pattaya,

But I love my BS to look good and buy farang style cloths monthly, plus a nice phone, if lost sold or stolen 1000 baht phone to replace it, once every 6 months. Motor bike a big No.No. Unless you want him to be out with his mates all the time, or worst kill him self.

Jewelry, well I donтАЩt buy now, in the past I have bought like many, a shop load, to find it all sold, one boys mother sold with in 10 days, I got over that many years ago, when I bought a farm and then went to visit, had to build a house then a tractor then I had a stupid Idea as the Chickens were all eaten by snakes, I had bought previously, not a few, hundreds I said why not Get the new tractor and grow Pineapples, 4000 bought and planted, Rain's came, washed them into oblivion, so be very careful about living in a Village, word gets round, either Ji Dee farang, which translated to a Thai, Gives away money like a fool, or ji Dum is careful and sensible with money they respect that more.
My boy special is always one of King.Key's ex-lovers. They are well educated, have farms, gold, nice clothes, the latest phones and some even have substantial savings so there is little else I need to buy for them.

[SoiVC Slut-old]

[quote="King.Key":1zxy51p2]You set the rules and stick by them.

If your like me, I am a strong believer in the best thing you can buy him, is an education, so he can make a living when your not around one day, so I always include that in my allowance, for my guys special.

If you want to know how much to pay a long term lover, 2250 a week is what I consider fair, plus 1000 ever time you have good sex, less if you donтАЩt think sex is not up to standard, ruthless I know, but thatтАЩs how they work in Thailand. But out of that he pay family and any other exspenses make that clear.....The job they work at will fine them, if they do anything against the rules, then your find you have the best you can expect. If you think he can live on half that up country, try it and see, he will need all of in in big city like pattaya,

But I love my BS to look good and buy farang style cloths monthly, plus a nice phone, if lost sold or stolen 1000 baht phone to replace it, once every 6 months. Motor bike a big No.No. Unless you want him to be out with his mates all the time, or worst kill him self.

Jewelry, well I donтАЩt buy now, in the past I have bought like many, a shop load, to find it all sold, one boys mother sold with in 10 days, I got over that many years ago, when I bought a farm and then went to visit, had to build a house then a tractor then I had a stupid Idea as the Chickens were all eaten by snakes, I had bought previously, not a few, hundreds I said why not Get the new tractor and grow Pineapples, 4000 bought and planted, Rain's came, washed them into oblivion, so be very careful about living in a Village, word gets round, either Ji Dee farang, which translated to a Thai, Gives away money like a fool, or ji Dum is careful and sensible with money they respect that more.

My boy special is always one of King.Key's ex-lovers. They are well educated, have farms, gold, nice clothes, the latest phones and some even have substantial savings so there is little else I need to buy for them.[/quote:1zxy51p2]

Cute, very cute indeed. Well done sir :thumbleft: :thumbright:

[quote="King.Key":330s7shx]You set the rules and stick by them.

If your like me, I am a strong believer in the best thing you can buy him, is an education, so he can make a living when your not around one day, so I always include that in my allowance, for my guys special.

I bought a farm and then went to visit, had to build a house then a tractor then I had a stupid Idea as the Chickens were all eaten by snakes, I had bought previously, not a few, hundreds I said why not Get the new tractor and grow Pineapples, 4000 bought and planted, Rain's came, washed them into oblivion, so be very careful about living in a Village, word gets round, either Ji Dee farang, which translated to a Thai, Gives away money like a fool, or ji Dum is careful and sensible with money they respect that more.

My boy special is always one of King.Key's ex-lovers. They are well educated, have farms, gold, nice clothes, the latest phones and some even have substantial savings so there is little else I need to buy for them.[/quote:330s7shx]


Is that right P.P well I wish you luck, I still love him even now, he lived with me for 4 years never hardly leaving, one day everything went Motor bike, jewelry, all cloths, farm, and house with family, I must admit his job had gone from N0.1 in the house hold, to being Mother Hen with The New Stunning lover in the house, but still everything was the same between us, awesome sex and fun amusing repartee, so I ask his best friend where is, he said his wife is in town, living here and gone to live with her and baby, Wife, baby!! when did he have time for all that, they said since he was 14. when i found him I said why you left you had everything, he said, no good when there is 3 in this love affair, now where did I hear that before. :cyclopsani: I said you dont love man you love lady, he said but i love to only be with you, I said or my wallet. he said 2 dont go into one, I think I taught a little to good. so some times a little knowledge is good for these guys. :scratch:

Now he is doing what he does best, keeping many mature guyz happy in Thailand he No.1 Table Top Bar in Sunee Plaza, with the cheapest drinks and most handsome guys in town, heтАЩs hot very hot and Handsome even now, looking 21 going on 29 I wonder who he is? The good thing is when he sees me he will still come running, the love between us is so strong even today, if you speak to him, he even speaks like me, I taught him English, after sending him to study. This all since 1998 a very long time ago. So I wish you the best of luck, he is still fun amusing and now very professional. I would put up his photo, as he is a Super Model stunning even now, but I donтАЩt want you all rushing in on him, just to spend the night talking about his life with me. the Photo is out there though. Dont need to speand a lot on him now he has two farms and is quite rich in his own right, pays to invest in property, I always told him, he has and saved all his money very wize guy :pirate:

By the way, if you ever find him and you want the biggest turn on with out sex, to get warmed up, ask him to do the Snake Dance, he sometimes to teaches it, something all the bars use to do, it was the most awesome thing to see, now Go Go Boys stand and look at you, as if their wondering why your looking at them, at least at The Club my ex. works in, the guys there make a big effort to keep the customers happy. :thumbleft:

[thrillbill]

About four years ago, I started "dating" a Thai fellow who not only had the good looks, warm personality, but a JOB! He owned a small tailor shop and his work always came before doing anything fun. I respected him greatly for this dedication. Then, one crisis happened after another, and they were all legetimate... (not lies). Eventually he couldn't make ends meet due to the landlord raising his rent, he had to go to the hospital and miss work for about a month...then his sister died which he had to take care of the buriel...Then a couple more"challenges" he had in life he decided to open up a clothing shop in another town that did NOT depend on tourism and have so much competition. I gave him quite a bit of $$$ to open up the shop; then another round of bad luck came and his mother died--really! Once I thought I had him "off the ground" with a new shop with clothes to sell, he then asks for more money to supply a new stock of clothes. I finally had to say "NO" and this monthly " I need many for _____" ended turning me off with him.
Though I felt good about giving him money for various causes, (and the big one was getting his new shop started), it looked like the requests would never stop. So now, I don't want to see him.

Many, not all, (even the ones with jobs) have this attitude that we farangs will always help them out and that WE have no finanacial obligations back in our home country.

[Smiles]

My advice would be to send him what you can afford (monthly?) without missing it, or sacrificing any of your own life style.
I would forget the nonsense about sex or affection being any kind of a guiding touchstone . . . if you think (and he thinks) you two are "boyfriends" then send the money to him with no particular strings attached, and make it plain it's his money to do with as he wishes. The money should be sent with only the thought (on your part) that it will help him live a somewhat easier life when you are not there . . . and tell him that.

Pick a reasonable amount which you can easily afford each month, tell him much it will be, and once you've committed to that amount and time frame, be honest and keep your end of the bargain up ... at least until either of you feel the relationship, for whatever reason, should end.

Once you have got your set amount flowing, do not change the rules without discussing it with him. Requests for any money above and beyond should be gently refused . . . whatever the reasons given for the request. If he does not accept that and keeps asking for more, please do yourself a big favour and break off the 'relationship'.

Perhaps latintopxxx has an opinion on this topic? Send the boy a packet of crisps each month, to supplement his diet maybe?

Plenty of valuable advice, but I would back Smiles' view most. As has been previously established (a search will find plenty of threads on the subject) Long Distance Relationships (LDRs) seldom if ever become Long Tem Relationships (LTRs) - the only exception anyone posting here has reported even knowing of is Smiles and Pot, so it seems pretty close to an absolute. If helping him makes you feel better, do so, but give up any idea of getting something back for your money in the long term.


As they say "You can take the boy out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the boy"...

My partner worked in a bar and freelanced before becoming my Civil Partner, and we have been living together for the last 6 years. I am not proud of his background, neither am I ashamed of it, nor is he and I would never want him to be - it was simply one of a number of jobs he took in order to survive (his mother died in childbirth, his father whom he had left school to look after at 12 when he was 15 - there was no family "house", of any description). I trust him totally, and everything I/we own is owned jointly with single signature control, including my bank accounts - how many of those in relationships with non-"moneyboys" have the confidence in their partner to do the same? I do not frequent the "bars" anymore (when I did it was for one thing only, which was not farang company, so there is no need), but unsurprisingly many of his friends worked or still work in bars, so I have no problem with him seeing them whenever or wherever he wants.

As a very broad generalisation I would not disagree with you, but that is all it is.



If you want to know how much to pay a long term lover, 2250 a week is what I consider fair, plus 1000 ever time you have good sex, less if you donтАЩt think sex is not up to standard .....

I am not sure how to take this, as it depends on what you call a "long term lover". If you are talking about someone on holiday paying a bar-boy/freelancer for a week or two, then it seems reasonable; if, however, you are talking about a serious, long-term, live-in relationship then I think you are way off. Firstly my partner would probably walk out as I would be insulting him by treating him like an "off", not my Civil Partner, and secondly I would be obliged to "pay" him some 50,000 baht per month for doing what he apparently enjoys.

[yedo111]

Too much money involved , are you sure he really loves you and not your ATM card?

I never understood relationships based on money.
Sure some weekend fun is ok , but not in a long and healthy relationship.

My Chiang Mai bf dont demand too much from me , his family runs a business and they pay for his education so maybe thats the reason.

My bf is one of the very few Thais I trust unconditionally. Trust works both ways, and in our case is rock solid.

In that case we are both very fortunate, whatever our partner's backgrounds.

Too much money involved , are you sure he really loves you and not your ATM card?

If you are referring to me, he has full access to all my bank accounts here and at home - if that was all he wanted what is he waiting for? He already knows that with the drop in the exchange and interest rates we are spending capital rather than my pension and interest, as before, so the longer he waits the less there will be.

[Smiles]

As long as we are talking about honesty (or lack thereof), I am pleased to add my man's name to the (apparently) short list of trustworthy Thais.

Prostitution and 'lying' go hand in hand ... all over the world: play around in their company (all over the world) and you'll meet up with all kinds of behavior you'd probably call , let's say, 'dodgy'. And that certainly may easily involve lying, on all levels, including telling you how handsome you are (against all the contrary evidence), as well as a plethora of financial scams. (Gone Fishing's good luck in going against the tide regarding this generalization is just serendipity: he stumbled upon one in a thousand)

Find yourself a great Thai guy who has never been "in the business" (i.e. the GoGo/freelance/prostitution circus) and I think you'll find there are just as many totally honest Thai men as there are in any given population.
I've got one, and in nearly 10 years have never been disappointed insofar as "lying" is concerned.

Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.

[Sen Yai]

Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.

So, you're just a size-queen?

[quote="Beach Bunny":3gke9rcf]Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.

So, you're just a size-queen?[/quote:3gke9rcf]

Thanks for the quote...now I have the satisfaction of knowing that Smiles saw it.

...Recognize the expectations of farang here in Thailand. Many Thais (almost all) believe in reincarnation. Your current life has been shaped by previous existences. Relative to them, they believe that you must have been a good person previously or you would not be financially comfortable. This earns you considerable respect and influence. Unfortunately, there is a downside, too. Since you are (have been in previous lives) a good person, it is expected you will be equally good and generous in this incarnation. They will believe you actually want to help them and not see your generosity as you being an "easy mark".

why do you bring religious belief into sick buffalo story?
Do these thai boys expect rich, older Thai gay men to pay for their sick buffalo because they must have been a good person in previous lives. I think not.
With your theory, I can say these Thai boys deserve whatever their bad situations because they are bad people in previous lives. So I have no sympathy for them.

[Brad the Impala]

Plenty of valuable advice, but I would back Smiles' view most. As has been previously established (a search will find plenty of threads on the subject) Long Distance Relationships (LDRs) seldom if ever become Long Tem Relationships (LTRs) - the only exception anyone posting here has reported even knowing of is Smiles and Pot, so it seems pretty close to an absolute. If helping him makes you feel better, do so, but give up any idea of getting something back for your money in the long term.


I think the transformation from an LDR to an LTR is not easy, but I don't think that it has been established that it is so unlikely as to ignore the possibility. You can add me to the short list that you have, of those for whom the progression has taken place from one to the other.

[Geezer]

Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.

If memory serves this is the second negative remark by the same poster concerning Smiles friends' appearance.

Such gratuitous remarks are crude and unnecessary.

If one does not understand how hurtful (and in this case unwarranted) such a comment is, he has not been so fortunate as to have a true friend.

Smiles constantly accuses me of being a troll, of having multiple personalities, blah blah blah...so I'm just giving him back a little of his own shit. As it it's any of your fucking business.

[Smiles]

Smiles constantly accuses me of being a troll, of having multiple personalities, blah blah blah...so I'm just giving him back a little of his own shit. As it it's any of your fucking business.Ah, but there's a big difference ... you ARE a troll, and a dude with many handles (not 'personalities', of that/those you have none), and of no consequence to this Board. Those things are all facts, not accusations.

On the other hand, what you say about my old man is (obviously) far from true.
But carry on ...

I thought you had me on ignore? Hahaha...you really can't get enough of me.

[aussie_]

Besides the entertaining interaction between the posters there is always some valuable advise given by Smiles, fattman and others on this forum.

I am back to farangland tomorrow and will send the bf a suitable monthly allowance. If he gets too greedy with large requests for money then it will be time to move on.

Talking on the phone or even directly is difficult when explaining my viewpoint about anything so I am going to try writng letters that are very carefully worded to explain how I feel about finances, my stays in the village etc. His english reading/writing/speaking skills are very good. It will be interesting to see if he will make the effort to respond in writing or by email.

Our relationship is a work in progress and worth continuing so thanks again for the advise.

the only exception anyone posting here has reported even knowing of is Smiles and Pot, so it seems pretty close to an absolute. If helping him makes you feel better, do so, but give up any idea of getting something back for your money in the long term.


I think the transformation from an LDR to an LTR is not easy, but I don't think that it has been established that it is so unlikely as to ignore the possibility. You can add me to the short list that you have, of those for whom the progression has taken place from one to the other.[/quote]

My point was based on what has been posted here - as you have not previously posted about any LDR, nor posted about your living here for a number of years together with the same guy, I had no idea that the numbers on my very short list had doubled!

(From the nearly identical thread "is it really lying")

Although I disagree with the idea that most Thai bar-boys are liars and cheats, the reason why anyone should expect Thai bar-boys to be any more honest than their counterparts elsewhere in the world escapes me. I only know those in Thailand, but I really find it very hard to believe that those elsewhere are any more honest - maybe those with more experience abroad could give an objective response.

I have always hated generalizations by race, creed, etc, as I have usually found most people to be much the same the world over - some good, some bad, with most somewhere in the middle. The only characteristic I have noticed in particular in Thailand, which coincidentally seems to be the opposite experience to those who pat themselves on the back with the "my boyfriend's not an ex-bar-boy" line, is that with a few notable exceptions (and I mean a very few) the further up the social/economic scale one looks the more corrupt, dishonest, arrogant and self-seeking they become.

[Smiles]

" ... Although I disagree with the idea that most Thai bar-boys are liars and cheats ... "
Just to set the record straight on this point GF ... my thoughts above on Thai guys who are met in GoGo bars, on freelance etc etc was not at all just about Thais "in the business". It was meant more as a universal observation about the World O' Prostitution: i.e. in general that world hardens a boy (or a girl); makes them more generally cynical at an earlier age; makes them more wordly and streetwise (in a worst sense) than they deserve to be in their adolescence and early twenties; introduces them far too young to the dark world of urban organized crime; by hard experience, can easily teach them that lying and cheating are normal ways of behavior.

None of these aspects of the dark side of choosing prostitution as one's first 'job' are in any way specific to Thailand's version of the business ... they are in fact the same everywhere, but with different scales of intrusion. Thailand in fact , in my opinion, demonstrates one of the gentler and safer models of the prostitution game.

I always get the feeling in these kind of posts that the OP is looking for an idea of what it's gonna cost him to keep the boy.
We could argue endlessly about weather it's worth it or if he's honest etc etc.
What I'm going to give you is just a data point and consider it only as such.

Monthly stipend...14,000 bhat
monthly extras .... 2,000-4000 bhat
motorbike...30,000bhat
money for mom to "plant rice" once a year 20,000 bhat
house... 500,000 bhat
to finish "High School" ....15,000 bhat every six months (note:this is high in order that he can bribe the teacher into giving him a passing grade even if he doesn't show up to class)
Draft Dodging...50,000 bhat
Boobs (optional)....60,000 bhat

In the queue is still the "shop" and the "truck".

To be frank, if you can't afford it don't do it.
Be HONEST with yourself and don't put the boy thru the anguish of thinking he has a sponsor only to get the rug pulled out from under him.

oh, and forget the "loans" BS. Consider them as "gifts".
Also, forget the gold. Just give cash and let him buy his own gold if he wants (I gaurantee he'll never "want").

[puckered_penguin]

Monthly stipend...14,000 bhat
monthly extras .... 2,000-4000 bhat
motorbike...30,000bhat
money for mom to "plant rice" once a year 20,000 bhat
house... 500,000 bhat
to finish "High School" ....15,000 bhat every six months (note:this is high in order that he can bribe the teacher into giving him a passing grade even if he doesn't show up to class)
Draft Dodging...50,000 bhat
Boobs (optional)....60,000 bhat
You cheap skate, You never even bought a bar for him. (Just 700,000 Baht)

None of these aspects of the dark side of choosing prostitution as one's first 'job' are in any way specific to Thailand's version of the business ... they are in fact the same everywhere, but with different scales of intrusion. Thailand in fact , in my opinion, demonstrates one of the gentler and safer models of the prostitution game.

As often happens, Smiles, we are singing off the same hymn sheet just in different keys!

[vnman]

I lived above an internet cafe close to Sunnee Plaza for a while. To get into my room I had to go trough the internet cafe which I could make use of for free. I didn't take long till staff and costumers asked me ( who writes perfect english :clown: ) to help with their English spelling.

These boys and girls who, were writing emails to their Farang bf, all sang the same song. Some unforeseen problem, allowance not enough...you get the picture. After making sure there was no mentioning of names in the email, but rather terms of endearment; darling, honey or baby, all mails got sent in bulk. Sometimes I even had to explain to them that if they would use "CC" bf would find out about the other recipients.

Don't get me wrong; I too (if little) paid my school fees, but the lesson is learned in my case. Never again! I promised my BF :clown: me :clown: 10.000 a month. We were in Bangkok at the time and I told him he'd rather stay in his hometown for a while. Bus ticket and 10.000 smackers in hand, bf took the first bus to Pattaya to continue his lucrative endeavor.

Smiles, made some good points about prostitutes. Why do people still think that life is like the movies and scenarios like "pretty woman" will unfold.

EGO EGO EGO! Taking the boy of the market to show off in a later stage. Isn't that what it's mostly about? Ask yourself the question: is bf really in his (to him probably boring) hometown spending the money you've sent him? Or Is he still in Pattaya or Bangkok, partying like every young guy loves to do? My bet would be the latter, because no matter what amount of money you send him, he can always make more You can never substitute the party-life he can have in one of these places.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. However, my best bet would be that you're not one of them. I'm always happy to listen to stories from people who say that their bf is different...there's that ego thing again.

No offense!

[francois]

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. However, my best bet would be that you're not one of them. I'm always happy to listen to stories from people who say that their bf is different...there's that ego thing again.
No offense!

Yes, my bf is different! We met 10 years ago. He did leave the bar scene and never returned and does live now in his village when I am not in LOS. Perhaps not in the same league as GoneFishing or Smiles, but he is as good as they get as far as I am concerned. Anyone who knows me and he knows this to be true. Francois

You cheap skate, You never even bought a bar for him. (Just 700,000 Baht)

Only 700K bhat??? I thought they were going for 4 million minimum!

Oh well, I'd probably end up drinkng all the profits away anyway.... :drunken:

....Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. However, my best bet would be that you're not one of them. I'm always happy to listen to stories from people who say that their bf is different...there's that ego thing again.....

Oh, kiss m a$$ darlin'

[youtube:1oxafoef]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-EXfxLitAo[/youtube:1oxafoef]

[vnman]

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. However, my best bet would be that you're not one of them. I'm always happy to listen to stories from people who say that their bf is different...there's that ego thing again.
No offense!

Yes, my bf is different! We met 10 years ago. He did leave the bar scene and never returned and does live now in his village when I am not in LOS. Perhaps not in the same league as GoneFishing or Smiles, but he is as good as they get as far as I am concerned. Anyone who knows me and he knows this to be true. Francois
Without wanting to make all this to personal i must say that you're confusing me. One of your quotes:

I think I would not go to Thailand if not for the hustlers. Most all gays who come to Thailand come for the pleasures of the flesh.
as for kenc:

Oh, kiss m a$$ darlin'
You must have been offended.

[francois]

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. However, my best bet would be that you're not one of them. I'm always happy to listen to stories from people who say that their bf is different...there's that ego thing again.
No offense!

Yes, my bf is different! We met 10 years ago. He did leave the bar scene and never returned and does live now in his village when I am not in LOS. Perhaps not in the same league as GoneFishing or Smiles, but he is as good as they get as far as I am concerned. Anyone who knows me and he knows this to be true. Francois
Without wanting to make all this to personal i must say that you're confusing me. One of your quotes:

I think I would not go to Thailand if not for the hustlers. Most all gays who come to Thailand come for the pleasures of the flesh.
as for kenc:
[quote]
Both quotes are correct. Merci, vnman, for remembering my quotes. I am not ready to set up house with the bf in same manner or league as Smiles and GoneFishing.
I love the gay scene, the bars, the boys,the farang, the sleaze, the pleasures of the flesh. I like the best of both worlds. And the bf, well he is a better person than I. Francois

[kittyboy]

Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.
If memory serves this is the second negative remark by the same poster concerning Smiles friends' appearance.
Such gratuitous remarks are crude and unnecessary.
If one does not understand how hurtful (and in this case unwarranted) such a comment is, he has not been so fortunate as to have a true friend.

I have seen pics that smiles has posted of his BF. I think said BF is a handsome man.
It is a cheap shot to trash the looks of a significant other. (Unless of course the significant other belongs to Charles the heir apparent -- then any comparison of Camilla Parker Bowles to a horse is entirely appropriate).

My thoughts are why would anyone want to wake up next to the same face morning after morning... no matter what they look like... It sounds like one of the upper level of the seven layers of hell..

[kittyboy]

Given the choice between a good-looking, compulsive liar, and a 100% honest "boy" that looks like Smiles' bf...I would have to think long and hard.
If memory serves this is the second negative remark by the same poster concerning Smiles friends' appearance.
Such gratuitous remarks are crude and unnecessary.
If one does not understand how hurtful (and in this case unwarranted) such a comment is, he has not been so fortunate as to have a true friend.

I have seen pics that smiles has posted of his BF. I think said BF is a handsome man.
It is a cheap shot to trash the looks of a significant other. (Unless of course the significant other belongs to Charles the heir apparent -- then any comparison of Camilla Parker Bowles to a horse is entirely appropriate).

My thoughts are why would anyone want to wake up next to the same face morning after morning... no matter what they look like... It sounds like one of the upper levels of the seven layers of hell. Not eternal damnation but certainly not pleasant. I must be missing something.

[aussie_]

Well aussie,, You should also take into account how many other bf's he has around the world and how much they are also sending him. Personally I dont get involved, until the day I decide to move there.

That thought has entered my mind and I agree it would be much better if I was living there. I will not be making any big investments like building a house unless I do retire or work in Thailand.

I have stayed with my bf on the last 5 visits with his family in the village. He is not into the internet at all and happy to work in the rice field, clean the house and chat with his relatives and friends. Since both grandfathers died last year he and his father have given up cigarettes and drinking alchohol which is another big saving on the funds required to survive in the rural area.

I also see many of his friends who work in Bangkok, they always ask about him and know both of us well. From the overall feeling I get about him I believe that I can trust him.

Of course I will proceed with caution. Worrying about who you can trust as a true friend is a sad but realistic part about travelling to Thailand. They are poor and we are rich and available to be fleeced of our $$$$. So far the benefits have been much better than any negatives but I am still on a steep learning curve.

I am not ready to set up house with the bf in same manner or league as Smiles and GoneFishing.

I prefer the sound of the same "manner", style, etc, rather than "league" - that makes it sound a bit like a competition!

If my own relationship were, for some unforeseen reason, to end tomorrow I would be very much lonelier and sadder, but I would have no regrets at all about the time we have had together or anything that has happened during that time.

If you and Aussie, and your respective partners/boyfriends can say the same and are happy with your arrangements / relationships as they are now, then those who are criticising you but who cannot say the same themselves have missed out on something special in their lives.

All relationships are different and we are all looking for and happy with different things. A Canadian I know used to spend all his holidays in Thailand sitting outside the massage bar in Pattaya where his boyfriend worked, chatting with him: when a customer came the boy would go inside to take his place with the other "masseurs", and if he did not come back out a few minutes later the farang would go for a walk for an hour or so before returning to sit outside the bar and resume their chat as if nothing had happened. They are both now living happily together in Canada (so they both tell me), where one is unemployed and the other works picking mushrooms.

It would not suit me, but neither would waking up to a different rented face every time I could afford it/manage it, nor would putting social acceptance above sexual fulfillment - others see things differently, and if that makes them and their partners (long or short term) happy, then good luck to them.

[Smiles]

" ...If my own relationship were, for some unforeseen reason, to end tomorrow I would be very much lonelier and sadder, but I would have no regrets at all about the time we have had together or anything that has happened during that time ... "
Concur with the sentiment above wholeheartedly.

Life's a Great Big Experiment under all circumstances anyway, and only blind serendipity introduced me to the guy whom I went back to Thailand to see a dozen times between 1999 and 2007. At the end of 2007 the 'LT' word was added to our relationship . . . and still (in mid 2009) seems to be holding up.

But it's still an 'experiment' in a sense.
During these last two years I've conjoured up for myself several major touch stones of success which I felt needed to be answered. One of those being " ... would I still want to live in Thailand if our relationship breaks down? ... " (I'm certain he has his own bottom-line list).
In hindsight, this may well have been the easiest question to answer: i.e. the answer is "yes", I can easily envision myself still living in Thailand if the worst comes to pass.
Whether I would live it in the same fashion as I have with him is a complete other question . . . . I wasn't looking for 'him' in the beginning, and I'm not certain that I would or could, put in the necessary energy to bother searching out a replacement, so damn special is he.
But I would still live in and enjoy Thailand in my retirement ... as it is: strange, exciting, weird, interesting ... as well as wonderfully warm all year 'round, and the lapping (clean!) waves on Hua Hin beach.

[Art]

Dear Art,
Money lubricates and complicates relations. The seriousness of the discussion shows that the topic is an everlasting problem without easy solutions.

It is very unfortunate that there is no tag database that helps to find all the relevant posts without difficulty. Why not at least tagging *posts* with some primitive tags listed in the FAQ section, like bf@support or bf@money? And bf@$ (1-9 dollars), bf@$$ (10-99 dollars), bf@$$$ (100-999 dollars) for those who send their beloved dollar bills to Thailand by air mail?

Well spent is the money spent on the washing machine. All the more if there is water, washing powder and power supply. You could sponsor a football match with soft drinks and the free laundry of shirts, so that even on very cold days you could observe the hot, sweaty, and shirtless village youth in the late afternoon sun. And the neighbours will notice that in the beginning of the washing machine story there was a hot boy, not a hot girl. This washing machine will promote sexual diversity in the countryside!

Somehow or other we have to learn how Thai culture works. And there is no better way than living in the places where our young men were brought up. If you are tempted to settle down in the countryside, read Peter Hicks' ┬╗My Thai girl and I┬л. It is not about boys or girls, it is about building houses and walls and about the rural environment. Slightly boring but salutary. http://thaigirl2004.blogspot.com
If you want to save your boyfriendтАЩs face you will restrict your multisided activities to big towns.

I have known the bf for over a year and I like his family and most of the relatives very much and stay with them often. The bf is not over the top with showing affection which does not help the situation. [...]
If I start again with another guy it will probably end up in a similar situation.
You should appreciate that your boyfriend does not try hard to simulate love, enrich himself and book a contract killer. You may not be the best choice for him (Let us say it is a XS or S love for him), but he may be a very attractive and trustworthy friend (L or XL) for you. Shouldn't we support the people we like, no matter whether they share the mat with us? I will never understand why so many gays still believe that they can replace friends with lovers. If you are tempted to have several bedfellows or lovers: Local friends can be essential for complicated lover-rescue operations when you would not want to send another lover as your envoy├й sp├йcial.

And should he live like a novice in your absence, or do you encourage him to have as much pleasure as he wants with younger or with older men, with us, the competition, so to speak? In this case your support would not look like a reservation fee. An XL love does not need a monetary chastity belt, but such a strong love is quite rare. For the other love sizes there is the benevolent market that brings together what belongs together, at least temporarily. Even though all soap operas teach proper jealousy, it is quite simply a bad habit like biting fingernails. May he have as many profiles as he needs! He is young and fun-loving, and the experience he gains will make him more mature. For you or for someone else. Carpe diem!

Refusing to give any more funds does not mean the end of contacts. Just moves them into a more interesting phase where the value of money is downgraded. If he continues to keep in touch then there is something more basic operating than the simple 'feed dog when hungry'...
An excellent way to face the facts. Love, or friendship? S, M, L, XL or XS? And what size does your love have? Maybe M? Only if your candidate believes that you will not import him to your country nor spend much money on him or his family the monetary incentive can be taken out of the equation, for a moment. Owing to the different social backgrounds, to the standards of living in the countries of origin, and to Thai customs it may be difficult to stop all money transfers. Needless to say that flooding someone with money or jewelry does not help to make a diagnosis. Why not needle the candidate to test his ┬╗love┬л or ┬╗friendship┬л?
A little stress test тАФ or better always pay enough to enjoy the continuation of the fiction of love! (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-14295%2C_Rohrbach-Werke%2C_Belastungstest_der_Tragfl%C3%A4chen.jpg)
Thais have a more delicate build. Be extremely careful with the dosage of your provocations! If he does not pass the test the good news is that you are bound to stock up on supplies.

I am a strong believer in the best thing you can buy him, is an education, so he can make a living when your not around one day
Nothing better than doing something with a persisting positive impact. And if it is ┬╗only┬л teaching safer sex successfully. To a bar boy. Or a foreign language. Or business 101. Or the secrets of the farangтАЩs mind. Or how to find a more attractive job. Whatever. At best we can analyze our friends' needs and find solutions for them. More demanding than just handing over money. For recurring payments Bob's and Smiles' guidelines should be followed.

Back to the farm. Monthly grant: What he would send home as a simple waiter in the capital (6000 Baht). 1000 Baht тАФ a good son. Or 2000 Baht тАФ a very good son. Plus what he needs on the farm тАФ 1000 Baht. Does the gap of 4000 or 3000 Baht offer an incentive to return to the capital for work? No. Because he would have to pay for a room and everything else. Is it worth to work so much for so little if it is possible to live modestly on the farm with a monthly grant? No! And the air is better, and his mother happier. And yet the capital baits, rife with lecherous men, old and young. All the shopping malls, all the internet caf├йs, but sadly not enough money!

There will always be dilemmas. What would you do if your boyfriend's beloved grandfather were badly injured? Shell out your last penny for the best private hospital? Or recommend a bottle of lao khao?

Life's a Great Big Experiment under all circumstances anyway
Take care of him,
Joey

Version 1.01 without the quote from Gone Fishing. Art will clear up the misunderstanding. Joey

gays still believe that they can replace friends with lovers

A very long post but I think that's a fairly brilliant bit.

I guess it comes down to what you have to offer. If you have a six-figure salary in the West then supporting someone like that could amount to little more than lunch money. Conversely, if you are of more modest means then I don't think you should feel guilt. It's easy to feel guilty for other people's lot in life but it wasn't your doing.

[Wesley]

I would simply move on or you can have me old one he is extremely affectionate

Wes

[anakot]

You should appreciate that your boyfriend does not try hard to simulate love, enrich himself and book a contract killer. You may not be the best choice for him...

This is good advice. I suppose underneath all this you are looking for something that is 'authentic'. Something you can't find at home. May be what you are seeing is authentic. So this is useful. AND you may not be the best choice for him AND he may not be the best choice for you. How often do we get this anyway? Relationships come in all shapes and sizes.

As for the money if you can afford it as someone said it is probably only 'lunch money' anyway. But if it is the determining factor then you should have a hard think about what your intentions really are.

I must say I read with great pleasure about the successes of GF and Smiles both of whom I don't know from the proverbial. And I know personally of other friends who live now in LOS with longterm Thai mates. Some ex bar or whatever. What does it matter. They prove to me that what you are searching for is possible.

I also know of absolute tragedies where farangs have been taken for all they are worth. But whose fault is that really?

Best of luck with it.

[aussie_]

I decided to look after my boyfriend and send him a suitable allowance each month.

He has also found a job in a factory near his village so he is not just sitting around waiting for me to send him money to survive. The pay is very poor in the factories and he will also help his family by working in their rice fields on his day off.

Thank you for the replies to my initial post. The advice you have provided is greatly appreciated.

Some of you have proven that it is possible to have a happy, long term relationship with a Thai boyfriend. Maybe I can be an addition to that list, time will tell and it certainly makes my visits to Thailand more interesting and enjoyable.

Good luck. I'm making my first trip this year but hope to one day find a keeper, myself.

[vnman]

Good luck. I'm making my first trip this year but hope to one day find a keeper, myself.

Would this mean you that haven't been to Thailand before?

All relationships are different and we are all looking for and happy with different things.
And should he live like a novice in your absence, or do you encourage him to have as much pleasure as he wants with younger or with older men, with us, the competition, so to speak? In this case your support would not look like a reservation fee.

What "absence"? I have lived in Thailand since I retired 16 years ago and we have been living together for over six years and are Civil Partners (registered in the UK). That does not necessarily mean we are "together" every second, but generally it means 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, etc. Fortunately we enjoy doing similar things, preferably together, whether it is shopping (the only problem there being he is virtually impossible to buy anything for, which I can find frustrating at times), maintaining a large garden and our assorted animals or playing pool, checkers, tennis, etc. I do "encourage him to have as much pleasure as he wants", and to see his own friends, but fortunately that does not mean "with younger or with older men, with us, the competition, so to speak" or the sort of "pleasure" I assume you refer to!! He was, and still is, the best sex I have ever had but that is far from being the most important part of our relationship and neither of us are into the bar/disco scene.

In case it is misleading I should add that I was fortunate enough to retire (or at least to stop working) some 30 years before the "normal" retirement age.

Would this mean you that haven't been to Thailand before?

That's right, taking my first trip in October. I've been dating Asian guys here in States exclusively for the last 5 years so it seemed like an easy choice. I had a Thai f-buddy for a little while but my last love was Vietnamese.

[vnman]

Would this mean you that haven't been to Thailand before?

That's right, taking my first trip in October. I've been dating Asian guys here in States exclusively for the last 5 years so it seemed like an easy choice. I had a Thai f-buddy for a little while but my last love was Vietnamese.

i hope you don't think those boyfriends have prepared you in anyway on what your about to discover in the LOS. I remember that my first trip here tingled all of my senses.

I recall you saying something about finding someone special. Take it from my and other members on this board. its very easy to mistake a business transaction with love. You will not be the frsi and certainly not the last to discover that.

I'm jealous even though I'm going ( delayed) the 3th of June myself. There's no substitute for that first time.

Have a great trip and I'm hoping on a full report.

its very easy to mistake a business transaction with love.

That'd only be if I liked the place enough to relocate. There are plenty of people in the US to hand money to...no reason to travel for that. ;)

I'll take your word for it for now, but I haven't read much online about Thai guys that has surprised me. Their families bring their culture/mindset with them when they relocate overseas...better English and they get fatter eating the food but that's about it.

It'll be all that I can manage to keep my eyes in my head, I'm sure.

[Art]

Joey asked me to forward the following explanation of his recent post:


[quote=Gone Fishing]All relationships are different ...
I found this statement absolutely convincing so I used it as a motto. Should I have preferred this more fundamental praise of diversity that may legitimize even kathoeys?

Genetic diversity plays a very important role in survival and adaptability of a species because when a speciesтАЩ environment changes, slight gene variations are necessary for it to adapt and survive ...
┬╗What ┬╗absence┬л? I have lived in Thailand since I retired 16 years ago┬л The long term absence of the partner is the determining attribute of long distance relations(hips) that cause long distance financial support issues of a short or long term nature. This led me to the question whether the young Thai boyfriend should be subject to restrictions on his private life.

... and we are all looking for and happy with different things.
He will know what makes him happy, verbal and bodily communication included, in the absence of his boyfriend for years or decades. The ┬╗absence┬л and the grammatical misalignment of the two subjects, ┬╗relationships┬л in your quote and ┬╗he┬л in my text, should have prevented an identification with your boyfriend. I was well aware of your posts about your relationship, and it was the second part of this sentence that alluded to your relationship: ┬╗An XL love does not need a monetary chastity belt, but such a strong love is quite rare.┬л Far be it from me to meddle with sunshiny relationships! And the M versus XS/S love that I took for granted could impossibly point to your relationship. I regret the misunderstanding. [/quote:37g14y34]

The original poster would have disapproved of Joey's post if I had addressed it to him and not Joey to me. Because the boyfriend in question (┬╗he┬л) is necessarily a fusion of the disclosed facts and my phantasy.

I realise that aussie_ expressed in his amiable and indirect way the wish to end the discussion.

P. S.
Isn't it frightening to hear all the fanciful retirement dreams of middle-aged people who ignore old age and illness? When they finally settle in Thailand after their repeated R&R stopovers they may be too stiff to adapt and too comfortable to learn the language. They socialize with their fellow expats and ignore the unfortunate Thais who line up for a relationship. ┬╗I should add that I was fortunate enough to retire (or at least to stop working) some 30 years before the ┬╗normal┬л retirement age.┬л At least we know from experience what ┬╗freedom┬л means. Obviously, you took your choice. In good time.

Version 1.01 Removed the sentence quoted below. Too preachy.

Human relationships get priority only after the end of the career!

There may be one or two people like that but most of the guys that I know have had multiple, failed long-term relationships and eventually gave up on it. The "juice wasn't worth the squeeze" so they decided to focus on other things, whether that is friends, education, career/building a business, or whatever. It seems perfectly logical to me.


they may be too stiff to adapt and too comfortable to learn the language

They might not be, too. An interesting range of assumptions that you make about other people.

I wouldn't mind retiring right now (at 37) but golly, I've been too busy with relationships to make enough money. ;)