Army Selection Time upon us..

[catawampuscat]

Every year in Thailand, all 20 year old boys return to their home village
and are subject to the army selection system. The selection happens
in the first week of April.
Years ago, many farangs supplied their boys with bribe money to avoid
military service but this seems to have ended in most places. I often suspected that the bribe money didn't always make it to the officials
and the boys took their chances but one will never know for sure.
One 20 y.o. lad I am acquainted with is on his way back to his village. He
will combine a trip home with the army selection and probably extend past
Songkran. As he is quite popular and has amassed a bit of baht and perhaps
a patron or two, he may have some options..
A figure of 20,000B. was mentioned but that may be specific to this boys province. :cat:

[Art]

Guaranteed freedom from military service is not free of charge. Does it still cost 10.000 or 17.000 Baht?
http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2008/04/ ... iland.html (http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2008/04/army-conscription-in-thailand.html)

Compulsory military service is a kind of forced labour that is not even properly salaried. So it is illegitimate, and corruption may serve as a makeshift to perpetuate an individual's freedom. But if corruption becomes so difficult to master that Thais do not know anymore whether it still works the trustworthiness of the rule of corruption is severely threatened. And the unofficial choice between military service and no military service is gone. Let us hope that the Thai army or the respective administrative body does not abandon its good old ways!

From April 1st to April 12th [sic] draft-time in Thailand during which all 21-year-olds and all males born in the year 1987 have to submit to the draft. Conscripts will receive an monthly salary of 1,550 baht and a daily allowance of 75 baht. Assistant [sic] army commander Gen Jiradet Khotcharat said the army had set up 154 committees to supervise the annual draft to make sure it is free of fraud and bribery.
http://pratunamo.twoday.net/stories/4811240/
[This is a strange translation of http://pratunamo.twoday.net/stories/4811187/#4811781 from March 25th, 2008.]
But for the record: There are Thai gay queens who enjoy the two years without earrings in the company of their dream men, "gay", "straight", whatever. Read Steven Zeeland's excellent interview books to know why. "Crossing the Line" might be the best. http://www.stevenzeeland.com

Steven Zeeland: Sailors and Sexual Identity: Crossing the Line Between "Straight" and "Gay" in the U.S. Navy. Harrington Park Press, 1995. http://www.amazon.com/Sailors-Sexual-Id ... 075&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Sailors-Sexual-Identity-Crossing-Straight/dp/1560248505/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237820075&sr=8-3)

[Alaan]

Well i can, from recent experience, confirm the 'army avoidance scheme' is still as popular, certainly in the Khon Kaen area. I'm not sure if military numbers actually have anything to do with or affect it's avaiability as they probably alter the amount of red/black lottery tickets to take account of military requirements......it is still a cashcow for those involved, and probably even more welcome in the current economic climate. I am very surprised indeed to hear from Catawampuscat that this seems to have ended in places.

I would think the actual cost probably depends on the payout list and set up in each situation/area.

But personally, I have two experieces the with draft.

First was with a guy i met on my first trip to Thailand. So spin back 10 years and about 30 trips ago. He is not gay...but a great friend then and still is to this day. I spent time with him on every visit. 3 years later at 21 he was called up, or rather by the time he had to report for duty he would be.......by this time after knowing so many Thai guys i knew the score. I didn't want him to go to the army[just as much out of my own selfishness as anything else as i knew i would miss him terribly] so i offered him the Bt25,000 at that time not to go. He wouldn't take the money, as he had decided to let fate/buddah or whatever decide the outcome of the lottery draw. His make up as a person was honest, proud, intelligent...someone you could rely on..he still posses all these qualities today.

He lost the lottery...although he really didn't want to go to the army either,accepted the outcome. 3 months of tough training gave way to landing a post in Lop Buri looking after an officer and his accomodation. He had a room in the house and cleaned...pressed uniforms..fed the dog..did some basic drills... and when the officer was away on his frequent weekend visits to Bkk to see his 'women' ....my friend had a house all to himself..discrete beers...learned to play the guitar i had got for him...tv..music...army friends[who he stills sees to this day] round etc.. and every 2 months he had 10 days holiday which he saved for when i had a trip to Thailand... it turned out fine for me and i think benefited him also in the longrun. I have even been back to that house on the military compound with him and met the officer and some of the local workers and people he knew during his time there.

Fast forward to 2 years ago...when i first met my now regular guy.....100%gay...a lovely....cute....shy.....honest... proud.... home/family loving boy ...for a year we saw eachother when i visited off and on..but not exclusive to eachother although we were in contact virtually everyday...we really liked eachother..... on to June last year i had got to the stage where i really enjoyed staying with him for the whole of my holidays to Thailand and visting his home on my trips as well as travelling around together and after many years of butterflying...i was happy to be with only one guy...although i'm certain there would have been allowance made for me for the odd massage etc.. if i had so wished..... so last June he asked if we could be together..committed....he would stay home.....work locally...i would top up his modest income and effectively 'take care' of him. Great! so far it has worked out better than i could have imagined or thought.

Onto Novemeber last year..he recieved his call up papers... never have i seen a guy and his family so upset about something... he didn't want to go to the army...and frankly would have struggled with it on many levels..he would have coped mentally ok as he is very strong in that department...but phyically? I'm not so sure... his family had even started a saving account specifically for this day....incase he would never meet anyone to care for him..such as me... and knowing him now.. how shy he is..."only my family.. my mother have seen me naked... as a child... and you the only other one".. i asked...so what about previous sexual encounters..i gathered that they were few and far between..lights off.. underwear on until under the sheets type.. [although he is certainly not like that with me]. so the army with its mixed showers and bawdy manly types larking/roughing around gave him the horrors.

I offered to help him with the money..he accepted graciously as if he was doing me the favour by accepting..but humble and very appreciative with it.... his family were very relieved and so was i [again partly selfish on my part] the cost Bt35,000.

Bt30,000 for the officials pay-offs and Bt5,000 to his moobaan fixer..a lovely mature lady, mother/grandmother well respected in his moobaan and the only go-between for anyone in the village gay or straight who wanted to avoid the draft. And to make sure that everything was in place in time for april all payments had to be made now...an older gay friend of his had missed the payment deadline when his time was due a couple of years previously and had to rely on a lucky red/ black lottery! My guy took this on board at the time, that wasn't going to be allowed to happen to him!

I contributed Bt18,700 to the already saved Bt16,300...that is how precise things were...if i had not....the balance would have been borrowed he told me later. I have to give the benefit of doubt that these were the true amounts involved...as i offered the whole Bt35,000 initially before i knew the details... he and family would only accept what they needed... he said he was about the forth from his moobaan that month already to have organised a draft avoidance.

Unless one is very niave and perhaps very new to the Thailand scene i think it might be quite difficult for a boy to pull off that scam....although i have seen enough in my time in the land of various smiles that i'm sure it certainly has happened. If you know the score and more importantly know your guy in terms of credibiltiy, honesty etc ...can speak and understand a little bit of Thai....... know your guys family and friends it is fairly likely to be genuine.

Hmmm looking back at what i have written.....it seems another of my posts is probably longer than it needed to be.

[Khor tose]

Hmmm looking back at what i have written.....it seems another of my posts is probably longer than it needed to be.

No, not to long for me. Thanks for the story.

Conscription is a form of slavery that should be avoided wherever possible.

Also, in societies that have welfare payments, why not have conscription for anyone who want's to be eligible for long term unemployment benefits only? The simple principle is those that choose to work don't owe the state anything more than their (often excessive) taxes.
On the other hand, those who have no intention of working should put something back & be eligible for military service. Might go some way to mending our "broken society".

As for Thailand, why do they need such a large army? Burma, Laos, Cambodia & Malaysia are hardly the most threatening or aggressive of neighbours.

[kittyboy]

Every year in Thailand, all 20 year old boys return to their home village
and are subject to the army selection system. The selection happens
in the first week of April.
Years ago, many farangs supplied their boys with bribe money to avoid
military service but this seems to have ended in most places. I often suspected that the bribe money didn't always make it to the officials
and the boys took their chances but one will never know for sure.
One 20 y.o. lad I am acquainted with is on his way back to his village. He
will combine a trip home with the army selection and probably extend past
Songkran. As he is quite popular and has amassed a bit of baht and perhaps
a patron or two, he may have some options..
A figure of 20,000B. was mentioned but that may be specific to this boys province. :cat:

As I recall, in the good old day of the Vietnam War and the US draft (and draft dodgers - Bill Clinton and George "the idiot" Bush step forward)- people were assigned draft number based on their birthdates - 1 through 365. People who had draft numbers 1 through xxx were drafted into military service. (I could be wrong about the particulars but that is how I recall the system working - those a bit older than me I am sure have a better understanding of how the system worked.) How are the thais assigned numbers or how are they picked for military service?
And why do they need to go home to their villages to be selected or rejected?

[Khor tose]

As I recall, in the good old day of the Vietnam War and the US draft (and draft dodgers - Bill Clinton and George "the idiot" Bush step forward)- people were assigned draft number based on their birthdates - 1 through 365. People who had draft numbers 1 through xxx were drafted into military service. (I could be wrong about the particulars but that is how I recall the system working - those a bit older than me I am sure have a better understanding of how the system worked.) How are the thais assigned numbers or how are they picked for military service?
And why do they need to go home to their villages to be selected or rejected?

Darn, I was told once, but that was quite some time ago. I believe they all return to the village, they are counted and they same number of white and red tiles are put in a jar with the percentage being calculated by military need. This is for every boy that is 20, student or not. Then they draw. Red you in the army now, white party on down. Please anyone feel free to correct me if I remembered it wrong.

[colmx]

Red and Black in my BFs Province (Buriram)
Usually there are 4 blacks for every one red (so a 20% chance of being drafted nationwide)

However when BF did his 4 years ago there was 1 red for every black (50%) - apparently so many rich people in Bkk had bought their way out so the Issan Quota was gone way up that year... Luckily BF got black and avoided the draft... especially as we were trying for a visa to Ireland for him at the time!

2 of his friends were drafted 2 years ago
One got an easy job as an Aide to some Big wig in Sattahip
The other got drafted into the real army in Bkk

One guy has turned into a slob, the other into a fighting machine!
I'm looking forward to seeing the fighting machine shirtless at Songkra in bkk!

[Khor tose]

Another fem boy became an officer's batman - in return for 'favours'.

If the boy was fem wouldn't that make the officer the batman or should I say the man with the bat, hehe. :salute:

[luvthai-2]

Back in 96 I was seeing a boy that was a dancer in the Ole Cock Pit shows. About a month before the ball drops He was so worried that the guys he would be with in the army would find out about him working in a gay bar and gang rape him. I ended up giving him the money to pay his way out of the army. Rather than just give him a large a,mount of money I sent him back to Nakon Sawan and his village to find out how much was needed (I really didn't quite believe he could buy his way out). I paid 25,000 and he was able to avoid the draft with the only requirement being it had to be paid before the actual ball drop. Looking back on it he had a 50/50 chance of not going so the 25,000 may have been for nothing. I saw him for a total of 8 years tho with the first four being sexual and the last 4 being no sex with him but he was good company to go shopoping and movies bowling and so on. His lack of honesty did us in.

[puckered_penguin]

Bt30,000 for the officials pay-offs and Bt5,000 to his moobaan fixer..

This cost is still about 35K but I guess it might vary in different provinces.
The draft works on the army's so called needs and each province has to supply x no. of people and the required number of draftees required also depends on the number of volunteers. The higher the number of volunteers then less draftees are needed. The number of black or red balls/straws reflects that and a few years back in Chonburi due to the high number volunteering less than 100 guys were required for the draft.
Volunteering can in some cases mean you only serve 1 year and if you are a graduate and you played army games at college then the draft time is normally 1 year and if you volunteer only 6 months.
It is also sometimes possible to get put on permanent leave after 3 months and the Colonel at the base will take your salary for himself. How the ones put on permanent leave are picked is anybody's guess.

[Patexpat]

Ah this thread is bringing back many memories! My first ever Thai bf back in the early 90's had to go home and 'do the deed' with the black and red balls. Although a big muscly chap he was used to a good life and the thought of Army food never mind the rest of the shenanigans had him quaking in his (army) boots ... however as usual his family had friends who had contacts etc so on that occasion the fee was B10,000 to the doctor who declared his eyesight unfit for the army ... the lad was SO happy!!!

Skipping a few years my next boy special who was in his mid-twenties told me how his falang bf at the time of him being called up simply gave him B60,000 to buy his way out. In reality he picked a black ball, and put the B60,000 straight in to his savings account .... and I wasn't quite sure how I was supposed to react to this story!

Finally a story from last years recruitment. A friend of mine was conscripted but being used to the good life with a former bf (no, NOT me!) really didn't settle down in to Army life at all well. Used to eating at places such as Brunos and Casa Pascal the Army food did not appeal and he simply refused to eat, and as he was also used to speaking his mind (which he did almost constantly) his was obviously regarded as a problem case.

One day late last summer a senior army general arrived at the camp unannounced. As you can imagine there was much alarm and panic as the camp was simply not expecting such a VIP inspection. Much to everyone's surprise the general bypassed all the formalities and asked to see my friend. Turns out the general was an old friend of his father from many years ago. And so amazingly life in the army suddenly got very easy, to the point where he is now 'on standby' and at home. Still in the army but leading a civilian life but can be recalled if required! As ever, and in Thailand more than anywhere, it's not WHAT you know but WHO you know!

It is also sometimes possible to get put on permanent leave after 3 months and the Colonel at the base will take your salary for himself. How the ones put on permanent leave are picked is anybody's guess.

After completion of basic training, which cannot be avoided if you have taken the pick and lost, it is relatively easy (and far from unusual) in most units for conscripts to sign over their pay, which is then divided up amongst the unit's hierarchy on a rank basis. Not a guess (but I am not anybody!!).

Coincidentally, not only did Abhisit avoid the draft but so did Chalerm Yubamroong (the leader of the opposition)'s two sons. Being the unashamed hypocrite that he is, this still does not stop him berating Abhisit over his draft dodging. What I find most shameful about both is that while they could have easily paid to avoid being conscripted (in Chalerm's case, have paid for his sons) and then justifiably have claimed to have been prepared to "do their duty", neither could even be bothered to do so, evidently considering such things unnecessary and beneath them. A sad reflection of Thailand's ruling "elite".

There is a fine short story about the Thai draft in Sightseeing. The stories are great, and this one deals with corruption, friendship, and families. The story shows how terrible military service can be for poor Thais.

Sightseeing: Stories (Paperback)
by Rattawut Lapcharoensap (Author)

[Brad the Impala]

Sightseeing is indeed a most enjoyable, and well received, collection of short stories about life in Thailand from the perspective of it's Thai/American writer

Amazon (http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sightseeing-Rattawut-Lapcharoensap/dp/1843543729/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237927858&sr=1-1)

Only one copy in stock currently!

[colmx]

BF went to watch the army draw in his nearest city

Of the 600 eligible draftees today the army were only looking for 30

It seems that they have had so many volunteers this year that they have reduced their draft requirements

[MARK]

Marks not a happy bunny my number 1 off maker just pulled s red ball coming back to work next week then army time in June wouldnтАЩt mind the loss of income but I also fancied him rotten. :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

depending on the province it seems to be 20-30k beforehand and then 35-50k post draw. If you pay post draw you are meant to turn every three months or so for the "head count" but your salary gets paid to your commanding officer.

depending on the province it seems to be 20-30k beforehand and then 35-50k post draw. If you pay post draw you are meant to turn every three months or so for the "head count" but your salary gets paid to your commanding officer.

There is no "post draw". If you do not pay before the draw, for whatever reason, and you are selected, you cannot avoid basic training; after that you may be able to sign over your pay but there is no guarantee. There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another, but this is misleading.

There is no "post draw". If you do not pay before the draw, for whatever reason, and you are selected, you cannot avoid basic training; after that you may be able to sign over your pay but there is no guarantee. There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another, but this is misleading.

I know of three guys who have got out post draw. one underwent basic training but the other two managed to skip even that...

fred, I like to assume that those who post misleading information here which could end up with someone being put in an unpleasant situation which they could very easily have avoided (such as being drafted when they could have paid to avoid it, after being told that they could pay post draft and then finding out they cannot, or eating garlic to ward off mosquitoes, etc, etc) are well-intentioned but misguided. Others are sometimes less generous.

Gone Fishing

Sorry but I haven't made it up. Since I moved here to work in 1997, I have known of the three instances above (in addition to countless who paid in advance). One was 8 years ago, the other two last year. I also know of two Muay Thai boxers who drew red; they can stay at their camp in Bangkok but have to fight for the army and navy respectively two or three times a year.

This is Thailand. You can shoot an off duty policeman in clear view in a crowded nightclub and get away with it if daddy has a big enough swinging dick...

[Brad the Impala]

Perhaps Gone Fishing could stand to be corrected for once, and doing it graciously would be a bonus!

Perhaps Gone Fishing could stand to be corrected for once, and doing it graciously would be a bonus!

Brad,

I am happy to be corrected and to apologise when I am in error, but that is not the case here. In this particular case there is clear confusion over both the effects and the availability of pre and post draw payment which could lead to a problem for someone who assumes that everything posted here is correct and that what one person gives as their own experience is commonplace and that they (or their Thai friend) will be able to do the same.

I am not accusing FredinBangkok or Romania of making up the details of post-draw payment, but the inference their posts give is wildly misleading.

Payment pre-draw is an accepted and widely available system which is "approved" country-wide; in the last 10 years, for example, there were three years when there was no avoiding the draft and such payment was not possible and one year when there were so many volunteers that there was virtually no draft. Payment pre-draw, at varying but set rates depending on the province, gets you a black card - officially exempt military service, with the usual Military Exemption Certificate to prove it. On paper, as well as in practice, there is nothing to show that you have not simply taken the lucky dip and got black.

Payment post-draw is totally different. It is far from widely available, is only available by local negotiation, has no "legitimacy" as payment pre-draw does and as well as becoming increasingly rare it can lead to a number of other problems. The reason why it is not widely available should be obvious: if it is little more costly than pre-draw, it means that payment pre-draw would be largely pointless and few would pay unnecessarily - this year, for example, with a roughly 10% red/black ratio, post-draw payments would have to be some 10 times higher than pre-draw to raise a similar amount of money (in general terms, omitting the variables), which it clearly is not. It does not get you any exemption from military service, instead where it is available your absence from duty (AWOL) is just not reported; without an Exemption Certificate, or a Completion of Military Service Certificate (issued on completion,after around 18 months) many things are potentially difficult if not impossible: you cannot get a salaried (tax-paying) job, for example (on paper you are still serving), and it would be difficult to obtain a replacement ID card if required, as it would be to get or renew a passport. You would also be liable to be re-called to whatever unit you were supposed to be serving in if it was operationally deployed, for example to South Thailand (unlikely, but that is what many in the National Guard and the TA thought). All things, as Fred says, are possible given the right consideration, but that does not mean that they are possible for everybody - far from it.

The situation concerning sportsmen and "personalities" is not really that different in Thailand, to be fair, to that in many other countries. The chances of Elvis Presley or Joe Louis having been "put in harm's way", or even doing normal military duty, were about as slim as those of Kris Akabusi or Princes William or Harry doing the same (although, to be fair, Prince Andrew did his fair share).

Fred, I apologise for disparaging you, which in hindsight I did unnecessarily, but I am simply getting bored with some of the "information" posted here which is misleading at best and nonsense at worst, and which could have genuinely serious consequences for anyone taking it seriously.

And Brad, to save you asking, my source of information in this case is 3 star.

[kittyboy]

Gone Fishing -

Let me get this straight about the army selection process. You are wrong - there is post selection bribery and thai guys can get out of service even after they have been selected but you are not wrong because the post selection bribery/corruption is local so it does not really count? That sounds like so much convoluted BS.

Sounds like you are being a self-appointed expert who knows everythings. A real three star... fill in the blank.

Let me get this straight about the army selection process.

Why would you be interested? My post is intended for those who have Thai friends, so it can only be of academic interest to you.


You are wrong - there is a post selection bribery but you are not wrong because the post selection bribery is local? That sounds like so much convoluted BS.

I am hardly surprised you cannot understand it: pre-draw payment exempts you from military service; post-draw payment does not.

╪г╪н┘Т┘Е┘О┘В ╪о╪п╪з ╪н╪з┘Б

[kittyboy]

Who gives a SHIT they wont be conscripting me


I do not give a shit one way or another. I just like to needle my self-important fellow poster - Gone Fishing - a bit. His endless stream of expertises are kind of facinating to watch as they unfold. Sort of like an Ed Woods movie - it is so bad but it becomes fun to watch if you don't take it at all seriously.

[kittyboy]

Let me get this straight about the army selection process.

Why would you be interested? My post is intended for those who have Thai friends, so it can only be of academic interest to you.


You are wrong - there is a post selection bribery but you are not wrong because the post selection bribery is local? That sounds like so much convoluted BS.

I am hardly surprised you cannot understand it: pre-draw payment exempts you from military service; post-draw payment does not.

╪г╪н┘Т┘Е┘О┘В ╪о╪п╪з ╪н╪з┘Б

Hang on Go Fuckyouself - you stated absolutely that post draw a person could not avoid basic training and others have given you examples of friends post draw avoiding both basic training and military service. So Go Fuckyourself - either you are wrong or they are wrong.Go Fuckyourself - I suspect the former is true not the later.

I am an academic and everything is academic to me. And it turns out I do have thai friends.
Have a good day Go Fuckyourself.

Sad that some posters here can neither read nor understand basic English, although it does explain a great deal:

"There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another ...."

"many things are potentially difficult ...."

"3 star" is a rank, not an evaluation.

Bye, bye

[kittyboy]

There is no "post draw". If you do not pay before the draw, for whatever reason, and you are selected, you cannot avoid basic training; after that you may be able to sign over your pay but there is no guarantee. There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another, but this is misleading.


Sad that some posters here can neither read nor understand basic English, although it does explain a great deal:
"There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another ...."
"many things are potentially difficult ...."
"3 star" is a rank, not an evaluation.
Bye, bye

As I read your quote - you state categorically that if a thai is selected for military service they cannot avoid basic training. Others have given you examples where their friends have done just that. Yes it is sad that some posters need to torture their own statement rather than own up that they may be wrong about something.
Or that their 3 star -- again 3 star what 3 star asshole? - is really just a way of trying to be important by showing that they hang out with -- what was that again a rank of 3 star bellhop?

[Brad the Impala]

Brad,

I am happy to be corrected and to apologise when I am in error, but that is not the case here.

I am not accusing FredinBangkok or Romania of making up the details of post-draw payment, but the inference their posts give is wildly misleading.


As you/GF previously wrote:


There is no "post draw". If you do not pay before the draw, for whatever reason, and you are selected, you cannot avoid basic training;

And FredinBangkok wrote:


I know of three guys who have got out post draw. one underwent basic training but the other two managed to skip even that.

And Romania wrote:


That certainly did not apply to two guys I know who had to report for the draw in Chachoengsao province last year. They both had to report for the draw at Bangpakong and were selected. Each then paid 22,000 Baht and were told they would be informed when to report back. During the year thay have had to report on three occasions to 'sign the log' and then returned home where both are working full time in decently paid jobs. Each report visit took less than 7 hours for the round trip and neither has done any basic training and neither of them have parents or relatives in a position to swing the process in their favour.


As you say you are not suggesting that either FredinBangkok or Romania are making up the details doesn't that suggest...........................

When exactly was the last time that you were "happy to be corrected and to apologise when I am in error"?!

I had intended to end my interest in this post when it struck me that the reason for the contradictions was probably simple - it appears from the job description that the two cases Romania refers to as having paid post draw are graduates who have had a deferred draw. The position of graduates as conscripts in conscript armies in general and in Thailand in particular is significantly different to that of regular recruits for obvious reasons, the most notable being that in a volunteer army a highly educated, intelligent and well motivated volunteer is likely to be an asset, while in a conscript army a highly educated, intelligent but unwilling even resentful conscript, who is better educated, more qualified and more affluent than his immediate superiors is likely to be a source of trouble so they are unofficially given extra "options" for avoiding military service (although payment pre-draw is still very much the norm for the vast majority of graduates). The paperwork for the deferred draw also serves as a temporary certificate of military exemption/service for employment, passports, etc.

It would be interesting to know if the same applies to those two cases cited by FredinBangkok who avoided all military training/duty.

To answer those other questions, before departing this now rather pointless thread:


As you say you are not suggesting that either FredinBangkok or Romania are making up the details doesn't that suggest...........................

It suggests exactly what FredinBangkok said ("This is Thailand. You can shoot an off duty policeman in clear view in a crowded nightclub and get away with it if daddy has a big enough swinging dick...), which I agreed with ("There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another,..."). I have attempted, for the benefit of those to whom it may matter, to describe the system for avoiding conscription and the results of payment pre-draw and signing over your pay, which are very different. There is always someone who says "I know so-and-so who got away with this" and someone else who is stupid enough to follow their advice and to suffer accordingly; a friend of mine, for example, got away with living and working here with no passport and no visa for ten years until an offence for which he was wanted in his own country had time-expired, after which he simply got a new passport from his embassy, went to the airport and paid the maximum overstay fine, flew out and returned the next day without any problems - would I recommend it? No.

As I said from the start, payment pre-draw formally exempts you from all military service, payment post-draw does not. The position is very clear.


When exactly was the last time that you were "happy to be corrected and to apologise when I am in error"?!

Exactly? 4 November last year, to Fattman. Prior to that a public apology to KhorTose over ATMs in Cambodia, with a PM in explanation; on 21 June last year I even apologised jointly to you and Fattman for confusing a previous post.

When "exactly" was your last time?


To say the least your are selective with quoting your own posts. You wrote : "many things are potentially difficult if not impossible ....." ..... Whilst at the same time you admit that "There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another ...."

Now do you not agree that you contradict yourself?

No. This is neither an admission nor a contradiction; it is called a caveat (a qualification or limitation).

I see little point in repeating an entire post (mine or someone else's) when it is clearly available, unedited, in the same thread and the highlights (or lowlights) are sufficient.


As I read your quote .....

See above.


Or that their 3 star -- again 3 star what 3 star asshole? - is really just a way of trying to be important by showing that they hang out with

I do not "hang out". I have known the individual concerned since we worked together, briefly, 17 years ago; he was considerably senior to me, we are not close friends, we simply talk occasionally. I gave up "trying to be important" when I retired, when I was important (relatively) and it was beginning to be inconvenient - fortunately you are unlikely ever to face a similar problem.

As I said before, "Bye, bye" - although I will be waiting (without holding my breath) for a reply from Brad, who as far as I can recall (or search) considers himself infallible and has never admitted making a mistake.

[kittyboy]

Gone Fishing wrote -

I do not "hang out". I have known the individual concerned since we worked together, briefly, 17 years ago; he was considerably senior to me, we are not close friends, we simply talk occasionally. I gave up "trying to be important" when I retired, when I was important (relatively) and it was beginning to be inconvenient - fortunately you are unlikely ever to face a similar problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are right I will never find myself in a situation where I am тАЬimportantтАЭ as you found yourself before you retired. I have much more humility. I am a college professor. I have found a job that I love and occasionally a student will tell me that I had an impact on their life. In the grand scheme of things I have friends that care about me and I care about them but my university and the rest of the universe will not miss me when I am gone. But I will have a very small positive impact on the people whose lives I interact with. That is all I ask for in life.

Gone Fishing тАУ I am amazed that you could acquire such intimate knowledge of Thai corruption surrounding the military draft by simply talking (your words) to your 3 star bellboy. Amazing! I am sure you are a smart guy and even personable, but on the internet you come across as a self-important, know it all asshole. I mean come on, do you really expect me to believe that you have intimate knowledge of how Thai graft and corruption surrounding the military draft works based on simply talking to you тАШfriendтАЩ? Your postings make you look like a fool.

I suppose that you will now start giving us tactical and strategic updates on the BKK protests based on your intimate knowledge of the Thai political system based on your conversations with your 4 star bellhop.
Your pomposity is amusing.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Brad the Impala":3jh7gsyf]When exactly was the last time that you were "happy to be corrected and to apologise when I am in error"?!

Exactly? 4 November last year, to Fattman. Prior to that a public apology to KhorTose over ATMs in Cambodia, with a PM in explanation; on 21 June last year I even apologised jointly to you and Fattman for confusing a previous post.

[/quote:3jh7gsyf]

Bless, but it was a rhetorical question! Only you would need to keep records of such momentous events. Even then I don't think that saying sorry for a misunderstanding, is quite the same as acknowledging when you have made an erroneous statement of fact, as you have in this thread.

Even when we are informed of personal experiences completely contrary to the assertion that you made, you are still unable to acknowledge that custom and practice may be different to that which you were told by your 3 star expert, but have to squirrel around trying to find exceptional circumstances, "of course this doesn't apply to graduates" etc!

Bless, but it was a rhetorical question! Only you would need to keep records of such momentous events. Even then I don't think that saying sorry for a misunderstanding, is quite the same as acknowledging when you have made an erroneous statement of fact, as you have in this thread.

Bless, but mine was not! My apology to Khortose was indeed over "an erroneous statement of fact", as I said - evidently you really do have a problem with basic comprehension. No records, just a very brief use of the search engine on this forum - which showed that while you have frequently "demanded" apologies from others you have never, as far as I could see, made any yourself. Maybe "Brad the Hypocrite" would be more appropriate.


Are you sure that you when you wrote "I had intended to end my interest in this post" it was not because you realised that you were wrong and that the facts quoted by others made your original pompous and self-important statements clearly without credibilty?

Quite sure. It was because I was bored talking with idiots who are unable or unwilling to understand the most simple English and who are misleading others simply to prove their point (which, if you read what I wrote, I do not disagree with per se - I had thought that "There is always a possibility of individuals getting around the "system" in one way or another,..." was pretty clear, but apparently this concept is beyond you and you are determined that anything you know of must be normal "custom and practice" as Brad the Hypocrite puts it.).

I am not calling you a liar, as I have said, but the two cases you cite and about which you claim to have personal knowledge are unusual, to put it mildly. One must be unusually fortunate to have found a "multi-national engineering company" which would not only send him to Germany but also teach him to speak sufficient German so that he can attend a technical training course there; the "trainee Data Processing clerk with the municipal authority" is also unusually fortunate to have been taken on despite the normal requirement for those in his position to have completed 12 years at school, although If he is still a trainee he is not salaried and the point is moot. They must both be remarkably fortunate.


I am a college professor.

Sorry, Pissyboy, but I am afraid that I cannot give you quite the same courtesy I gave to Romaniac; last year you were "an aspiring researcher in the area of gays and lesbians in the workplace..... I do research on gays and lesbians in the workplace ..... I do research on gays and lesbians in the workplace and have a background in research methods and statistics ..... though I am not a mathmatical modeler." The jump from that to "college professor" really does require quite a bit more imagination than I have - dream on!


I really have nothing more to offer to this thread, so I simply leave it up to anyone still interested in advice on avoiding conscription to make up their own minds as to whether it is better to pay pre- or post-draw and to what actually constitutes "custom and practice". "Up to you".

[kittyboy]

I am a college professor.

Sorry, Pissyboy, but I am afraid that I cannot give you quite the same courtesy I gave to Romaniac; last year you were "an aspiring researcher in the area of gays and lesbians in the workplace..... I do research on gays and lesbians in the workplace ..... I do research on gays and lesbians in the workplace and have a background in research methods and statistics ..... though I am not a mathmatical modeler." The jump from that to "college professor" really does require quite a bit more imagination than I have - dream on!

Hey Go Fuckyourself - Your lack of imagination is your problem not my problem. Lack of imagination, lack of humor and self-importance may go hand in hand.

Sorry but you are again wrong. I am a college professor who does research on gays and lesbians in the workplace and I do have a background in research methods and statistics. Let me check... no inconsistency there.

As I recall from your analyses in the thread where you pulled my comments, you styled yourself as an expert on Baysean statistics and other statistical methods. But it became very clear you do not know shit about statistics. Your comments were personal opinion that were wrong and they showed you did not know what you were talking about.

Tell you what. You send me your vita and I will send you mine. I will aslo send you copies of my research.
I suspect that even if I were to send you my vita along with pay stubs from the university I teach, you would claim that I was really not a university teacher. You would never admit that you fucked up your facts and or assumptions.

Go Fuckyourself - Let me know about my offer.

Go Fuckyourself - you still have not admitted that you have gotten a few of your facts wrong in you posts on this thread.

What would be unusual would be a foreign national having detailed knowledge of the corrupt practices down to the village level of thai officials. Even though it is opaque to most people. Probably even most thias.

You are still as self-important and silly as before. Oh... you silly silly man.

Pissyboy, you recall incorrectly. I have no interest whatsoever in your vitae (or your vita) and although I would send mine to some here, you are not one of them - it would be (and now is) like taking a precocious child seriously who has wandered into a gathering of adults and who cannot understand that no-one is interested in his juvenile and increasingly noisy comments and who desperately wants to be taken seriously. While previously you were mildly amusing you are now tedious. Goodbye.

[kittyboy]

Pissyboy, you recall incorrectly. I have no interest whatsoever in your vitae (or your vita) and although I would send mine to some here, you are not one of them - it would be (and now is) like taking a precocious child seriously who has wandered into a gathering of adults and who cannot understand that no-one is interested in his juvenile and increasingly noisy comments and who desperately wants to be taken seriously. While previously you were mildly amusing you are now tedious. Goodbye.

Go Fuckyourself - No I am pretty certain that I recall correctly. You had some very forceful opinions about the statistical methods used in the paper that prompted the thread and implied that you had an ability to interprect bayesean statistics. With no training in statistics or research methods your opinions were pretty much just uninformed opinion. Personally, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a bayesean base rate and your girlfriends boner up your ass but I guess it is possible.

Go Fuckyourself - What, no interest in seeing that I conduct research on the experiences of gays and lesbians in the workplace and that I am a college professor? I guess you have decided that you were wrong and that I am both a researcher and a college professor. How big of you to imply that you were wrong though still petty of you not to acknowlege the fact.

Go Fuckyourself - Oh my god it is a relief that you do not take me seriously. If you did I would think there was something wrong. But it is gratifying to know that I do get up your self-important nose.