The first farang-run brothel?

[PeterUK]

In 1655 Gijsbert Heeck, a Dutch medical doctor in his mid-thirties, was on his third sea voyage out East. His diary entries for his journey by boat up the Chao Phraya river to Ayutthaya and back provide fascinating glimpses of the Siam of the period. He describes Bangkok in some detail, then little more than a marshy area with rows of shoddily-built bamboo huts on stilts along the riverbank and with a busy floating market, a few temples, and orchards of coconut palms, orange trees, lemons, bananas and the like. He writes about the landscape, village occupations (including coffin-making) and temples that he saw further upriver and then comments at length about various aspects of life in the capital, Ayutthaya.

The Dutch trading lodge was situated on the east bank of the Chao Phraya outside the city walls to the south. Heeck says that the forty-or-so Dutch employees lived very luxuriously, most of them keeping concubines. A typical dour Calvinist of the period (he has already referred to Siamese monks as 'true disciples of Satan'), Heeck makes clear his moral disapproval of this behaviour. It seems the employees themselves were very defensive about it, justifying it on the grounds that the Siamese did it, there were no Dutch women, and abstinence was just too difficult. Their state of mind is alarmingly hinted at when Heeck adds that 'they seldom refer to them other than as whore, trollop, slut, and the like.'

Several employees were deeply in debt because of having to pay for all the needs of their concubines, including buying or building them a house. As for the children of these unions, they were generally well looked after as long as the fathers remained, but when the latter left the women would demand an advance of a large sum of money to maintain the children and then, according to Heeck, often squander it.

In the most intriguing part of his account, Heeck mentions an establishment across the river from the lodge which was run by a Frenchman called Thomas, who had arrived by ship from Batavia some time earlier, been stranded there and decided to settle. He made his living by tapping beer, arrack and punch for the sailors and others in the area. There were Portuguese and Japanese traders nearby, as well as the Dutch. Heeck says that the Siamese women spent most of their maintenance money in the Frenchman's establishment, presumably with their mixed-race children in tow, because he notes that the place was nicknamed 'the orphanage' by the Dutch. Chillingly, he adds, 'The fate of these poor orphan children can easily be imagined.'

There is no further elaboration, but it is unlikely that he would have made such a suggestive comment unless he had heard stories of sexual activity between some of the children and the adult customers - with the connivance of the mothers, by the sound of it, and with the Frenchman as pimp-in-chief. With only the brief report of our censorious Calvinist to go on, it is impossible to know for certain what the atmosphere of the place was like. I think we can say with confidence that the girls (and their mothers) would have been at the centre of attention, with perhaps some discreet interest in the boys. One can only hope that the children were generally well treated. On balance, though, my guess would be that it was even less fun being a mixed-race child in seventeenth-century Ayutthaya than it can be for some of them in modern Thailand.

(For those wishing to read Heeck's Siamese diary in full, see A Traveler in Siam in the Year 1655, translated and introduced by Barend Jan Terwiel, Silkworm Books).

And for a first hand account and reviews read the diaries of Doris (Lunchtime) O' Booze!

[lonelywombat]

And for a first hand account and reviews read the diaries of Doris (Lunchtime) O' Booze!


I am sure he was stunning then pity age catches up to most of us.

Me I am still handsome and can pay my way
.

[Smiles]

" ... I am sure he was stunning then pity age catches up to most of us.
Me I am still handsome and can pay my way
I dont have to promote a new venue in Jomtien like my life depends on it.
I would love to hear from the owners of THE VENUE. Do they read this forum and are they aware of the bullshit posts being made about their new venture . Are they aware of the damage being done by the self appointed PR men.
If it was my place I would tell them to piss off and do not expect freebies ... "
And what is your opinion on PeterUK's story of the first farang-run brothel in Thailand? Could you give us some indication as to why you have posted your favourite ~ and mind-numbingly boring ~ rant (until the next pressing issue comes up that is) in this particular thread.
Did your actually bother to even read the opening post? Perhaps you posted your reply in the wrong thread without realizing it? Can you actually read ... more often than not I wonder?

Oh yeah, thanks Peter for the interesting snippet of Thai history, along with the lead to be able to read more.
How familiar some passages sound:
" ... Several [farang] were deeply in debt because of having to pay for all the needs of their concubines, including buying or building them a house ... " Some things never change. :cyclops:

Cheers ...

[giggsy]

Q. Did capt. kirk have his phaser on kill or stun?
A.I am sure he was stunning then
Q.FATTMAN AND I ARE THE ONLY 2 SANE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WOULDN'T YOU SAY
A.pity age catches up to most of us.
Q.THE BOYS IN PATTAYA SAY YOU ARE UGLY AND A TIGHT CUNT!
A.Me I am still handsome and can pay my way
Q.DO YOU EVER GIVE AN OFF A COMPLIMENT?
A.I dont have to
Q.HOW DO YOU MAKE EXTRA SPENDING MONEY WHEN ON HOLIDAY IN PATTAYA?
A.promote a new venue in Jomtien like my life depends on it.
Q.IT IS SAID THAT YOU ARE THE FASTEST WASHER UP IN AUSTRALIA.WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE HEAD BOTTLE WASHER ANYWHERE ELSE?
A.I would love to hear from the owners of THE VENUE.
Q.HOW DO YOU THINK YOU COULD GET A JOB THERE?
A.Do they read this forum and are they aware
Q.IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULDN'T TELL THE OWNERS OF THE VENUE?
A.of the bullshit posts being made about their new venture .
Q.SOME PEOPLE LIKE 3 OR 4 IN A BED WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
Are they aware of the damage being done
Q.WHO IS PATTAYAPASSION RUN BY?
by the self appointed PR men.
Q.WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD HAPPEN TO PEOPLE WHO PUT WORDS INTO YOUR MOUTH?
If it was my place I would tell them to piss off
Q.AT THE NEXT SGT GET TOGETHER WE SHOULD GET A PAPER HAT
A.and do not expect freebies.

[PeterUK]

Some bizarre responses to my OP even by the standards of this board. :scratch: Yes, Smiles, I was struck by the topicality of that house-buying remark too. The diarist doesn't say whether the Dutchmen were tapped for funds to pay for sick buffaloes, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[lonelywombat]

[quote="giggsy"]


quote="lonelywombat"]
[I dont know what all that crap in the preceding post is all about . nor why I was quoted

I would appreciate if you delete the quote sign as there was nothing quoted

[gra46]

quote="lonelywombat"]
[I dont know what all that crap in the preceding post is all about . nor why I was quoted

I would appreciate if you delete the quote sign as there was nothing quoted

Ha ha ha you have fat chance getting your own way with giggsy ,sorry you fucked up you let an opening for him ,give him credit where it due old wombat

Oh i see your further away from your prissy circle too getting "lonely" wombat

[Bob]

I dont know what all that crap in the preceding post is all about . nor why I was quoted


I'm in the same boat.....and I'm trying different doses of crystal meth to hopefully enable myself to figure out how your March 21st post above related in any manner to Peter's post, our lovely Dame's attempt (I think) at some humor, and what I last knew as reality.

Peter, due to the crystal meth burnout (or is it old age?), I have no clue as to the writer's reasons for the one reference but it seems to me to be a stretch to suggest that the "orphanage" was any more than just that. But only Buddha and dead dutchmen would know that. Thanks for the historical note in any event.

Sorry for the interruption. Now, Scotty, beam me up!

[PeterUK]

Peter, due to the crystal meth burnout (or is it old age?), I have no clue as to the writer's reasons for the one reference but it seems to me to be a stretch to suggest that the "orphanage" was any more than just that. But only Buddha and dead dutchmen would know that. Thanks for the historical note in any event.


You think that an establishment where hard-drinking traders and sailors mingled with Siamese concubines and their fatherless mixed-race children was simply an early example of a residential care facility? The diarist's comment that 'the fate of these poor orphan children can be easily imagined' doesn't ring an alarm bell or two? Methinks you're far too innocent for this board, Bob!

[Brad the Impala]

The opening post is strangely familiar. Has it been posted elsewhere previously?

[giggsy]

And for a first hand account and reviews read the diaries of Doris (Lunchtime) O' Booze!


I am sure he was stunning then pity age catches up to most of us.

Me I am still handsome and can pay my way

I dont have to promote a new venue in Jomtien like my life depends on it.

I would love to hear from the owners of THE VENUE. Do they read this forum and are they aware of the bullshit posts being made about their new venture . Are they aware of the damage being done by the self appointed PR men.

If it was my place I would tell them to piss off and do not expect freebies.

wombat . you said i did not quote you in my earlier post but it is an exact replica of what you wrote earlier.all i have done is inserted questions (in blue) and (A) meaning "answer". as your post is nothing to do with the original post i thought i would try helping you out by trying to make some sense of it. (no need to thank me)
GRA also pointed out that your idol (smiles) also has no idea what your post is supposed to be about.
so as he says "carry on".
and as my avatar says "i'd rather walk alone" meaning you might not understand my post but i don't give a ++++

[Bob]

Methinks you're far too innocent for this board, Bob!

Thanks, Peter (I think). I've been called a lot of things before but I don't recall hearing the word "innocent" in that long list of historical descriptions.

On this one, I think I'll go with "dense."

[PeterUK]

The opening post is strangely familiar. Has it been posted elsewhere previously?

I originally posted it at Baht Stop about two months ago, where it got, I think, one response. I thought it was worth repeating here and indeed it has received a few more responses - even if there appear to be two entirely different conversations going on!

As usual Peter, very enlightening, Interesting and also, have you ever thought of writing a book of your own, you certainly know how keep your readers interested and wanting More. Keep up the good work.

[giggsy]

The opening post is strangely familiar. Has it been posted elsewhere previously?

Reply with quoteReport this postThe tragic case of Joost Schouten
Author: PeterUK on Sat 7 Mar, 2009 4:07 am

I enjoy reading the accounts of Westerners who travelled or lived in Siam in bygone eras. I am interested in their living conditions, their travelling arrangements, how they got on with the people they met, what they made of the local customs тАУ not to mention their sexual adventures and, in particular, gay sexual adventures. Unfortunately, accounts of the latter are scanty to say the least. Not until the 1920s does a book appear (Ebbe KornerupтАЩs Friendly Siam) which broaches the subject and even then in a very nudges-and-winks kind of way.

[Bob]

As usual Peter, very enlightening, Interesting and also, have you ever thought of writing a book of your own, you certainly know how keep your readers interested and wanting More. Keep up the good work.

Funny you should ask. While Peter may be a bit shy about it, I'm not. Check out this link - which is a glowing report by our former poster Wowpow who accurately described Peter's work:

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1906&pid=10010&mode=threaded&start=

[joe552]

Peter, I really enjoyed your post - fascinating glimpse into the past. Thanks.

The reference to The Venue has me puzzled - is this the next (or last) farang-run brothel?

Just when you thought you'd found a thread which had no relationship to "that place" it's in the middle of a purely historical piece of writing.

Makes me wonder why I bother reading this shit anymore.

.....The Dutch trading lodge was situated on the east bank of the Chao Phraya outside the city walls to the south. ....

In the most intriguing part of his account, Heeck mentions an establishment across the river from the lodge which was run by a Frenchman called Thomas, ....

I'm a bit confused but are you talking about Ayuttaya here or Bangkok?

It sounds like an intersting book for some beach reading. I wouldn't be too surprised about the fate of the brothel kids. Sex has been going on for a long time. Westerners didn't invent it.

[PeterUK]

I'm a bit confused but are you talking about Ayuttaya here or Bangkok?


Ayutthaya. Bangkok was still quite primitive in those days and certainly didn't have city walls.