My Moral Dilemma

[HIGHRISE]

Hi Guys,

OK, here it goes. I hope this posting doesn't cause a backlash against me. I'm just interested in reading your honest opinions on this subject.

I'm leaving for Thailand (Bangkok/Pattaya) on Tuesday. It will be the first time I've been there alone, as a single person. I'm currently 50 years old, and have never paid for sex or companionship. I've either been in a relationship, or have just not needed to. Also, I was raised VERY conservatively, and the thought of paying a Thai boy to do something he is ONLY doing for the money just doesn't seem right. I can't help but think that some of these boys will be emotionally scarred for life for doing what they felt they had to to make some money, often for their families. I'm sure the majority of them would really rather be doing something else if they had the opportunity.

I'm not saying I won't do it. I guess I'm saying that if I do, I might have a hard time enjoying it if I see the pain in his eyes, or at least think I do. Am I just being a drama queen? Am I just overly sensitive to the feelings of others? Please, tell me what you think, and please be gentle with me. :blackeye:

Relax. I have found the majority of the guys I have offed enjoy sex while making money. You will find many a young lad who will genuinely want you to have a great time.

Go forth and enjoy yourself!

HIGHRISE, i understand your problem ! But before you go to Thailand you must get over your dilemma. I think you go to Thailand for a good Holiday and a good enjoy for yourself. It is very important you enjoy ! Most Thais you will meet are working for money they see it as a job to take care farang ! Some off them do real care about you have a good Holiday and a great satisfaction !

If i go Thailand i make i have a good time and if i find a good Thai friend i make he has a good time as well, keep my respect for him and yes money is very important for them but not so important for me , so we make a good deal !

I think your biggest problem is you are Conservative, same i was before but i did get over it.

Do not think to much HIGHRISE, this is a differed wold whit different values !

Go, enjoy but be very carefully because i think you are a very good hart ! Don't be a victim off your good hart HIGHRISE ! It is a hard wold over there !

Just because you're 50 don't imagine that the pole dancers are your only option. You probably won't get over that dilema any time soon so give the volunteers a chance. You'll find them easier in Bangkok than Pattaya and if someone tells you sob story over breakfast give an MPR, shrug, smile, peearge "loan" (in British joke).

But there are real volunteers around and they seem to be as befuddled about our real age as we are about theirs.

[Dodger]

Highrise,

I appreciate your feelings and I shared a very common concern when I first stumbled into town.

It's funny how your inner instincts will guide you along the way, as the boys (term for an unmarried Thai male) vary greatly regarding their feelings about selling sex, just as anyone else in the world would. You will find the majority of boys eager to please as long as you're a nice (jai dee) guy, treat them with the respect they deserve and tip them generously for their time. FWI...the average short time tip is around 1000 baht, and an overnight stay around 2,000 baht. Expats generally tip less because they become cheapskates over time. I don't know why...probably something to do with the hot sun?!?!?

Follow your instincts and I know you will have a great holiday.

At the same, time don't get sucked into their stories about the ailing grandmother who's in the hospital in need of money for a life threatening operation. or the family water buffalo who got run over by an elephant and the family is unable to harvest their rice, etc., etc., etc. Just tip within the average, be willing to show him (them) a good time and remember to return the smile. It's all downhill after that.

mai pen rai (means, be cool)

[HIGHRISE]

I'm glad that I made this posting, because I am starting to see that there is more to this issue than I'd thought. I guess I need to lighten up a bit, and go with my feelings at the time. I look forward to seeing more of your input, and will let you know how things went when I get back.

[bing]

You may notice if your around the half century marker that young guys seem not to see you, the allure of LOS is that you will be noticed. I first took a trip to Thailand after speaking with a fishing buddy that said he had a better time in Bangkok than anyplace in the world. I went to Spartacus, as I was not too computer literate in the early 90's. I signed up for Ambiance, and met Gordon the manager. He made a statement at breakfast as I recall, "There is no place on earth like Pattaya". That was when the top floor was sort of clothing optional. I recall one of the hotel help poured water with soap on the flowers after mopping the floor, thinking the flowers would like the water. The water killed them all. he he, Gordon had a fit, but did not really kill the worker, as he all the best intentions. Just a loud reprimand that the blank blank blank flowers don't like soap. All the mind games you might play in your mind before you arrive will be like what Abraham Heschel, the Jewish guru once said, that the flight of the lead 747airplane, it might look fine in your mind but it won't fly. You already had an insight about lighting up a bit. Yes, it can be great, but use caution, all that glitters is not gold. If you are lucky, like I hope most of the guys are, you will find a stunningly nice young man, who will be delighted to meet you, and be with you for as long as you are on vacation (Holiday for those in Europe and Aussie land). If you return to Pattaya, as I'm willing to bet you will, You might see your Thai guy for several years to come. I find that is one of the neat things about Pattaya, seeing people you have met on prior visits. Not just the young men but some of the guys who post here too. I agree with Gordon, There is no place in the world like Pattaya, even if it does have a few scars. I envy your first visit, no doubt you will be a Pattayafile ( I do hope that is a word) after your visit.

Rainwalker thats charming. I have to admit to having gone into one of the boy bars in Bangkok myself to have a look see and ended up almost running from the place crying. It was also almost empty of punter.

That feeling rushes over you of unbridled love and compassion as you look into each one of their faces, standing there in the spot light in their underpants. I just wonder amongst other things how people can choose and not feel guilty that the others are staying behind. And I also wonder how any-one could even try and have anal intercourse with any of them. Our anatomy is generally much too large. No I have never paid for sex but I cant say I never will, I would like to think I wont.

It has nothing to do with the money issues or even moral ones, its just something inside me will always want to be an equal with whom ever I am friends with. And me sitting there in the dark fully clothed browsing little boys in underwear wont let me feel an equal not ever.

Forget the sex and just have a good time is my honest advice. If sex is a by product and you are generous with your wealth then pile on the gifts, fine, but dont go shopping you will end up feeling bad.

Rainwalker thats charming. I have to admit to having gone into one of the boy bars in Bangkok myself to have a look see and ended up almost running from the place crying. It was also almost empty of punter.

That feeling rushes over you of unbridled love and compassion as you look into each one of their faces, standing there in the spot light in their underpants. I just wonder amongst other things how people can choose and not feel guilty that the others are staying behind. And I also wonder how any-one could even try and have anal intercourse with any of them. Our anatomy is generally much too large. No I have never paid for sex but I cant say I never will, I would like to think I wont.

It has nothing to do with the money issues or even moral ones, its just something inside me will always want to be an equal with whom ever I am friends with. And me sitting there in the dark fully clothed browsing little boys in underwear wont let me feel an equal not ever.

Forget the sex and just have a good time is my honest advice. If sex is a by product and you are generous with your wealth then pile on the gifts, fine, but dont go shopping you will end up feeling bad.

I too will be making my first trip soon. I have learned so much from reading the post, everyone is very informative. I was hesitant at first how I might feel offing my first Thai boy, but as everyone said, they seem to enjoy themselves and if things click and a good time is had by all, then a nice tip while a small amount by our standards can go a long way for them. I hope you have a terrific time and give us a wrapup when you get back. I will be interested for sure for your insight as a first time visitor.

[Up2U]

"The bar charges you a fee usually 2-300 Baht (8-10 dollars) and you tip your guest anywhere from 500 to 1500 Baht ($20 to $60.) "....not sure what dollars you are referring too but HIGHRISE comes from Seattle so in U.S. dollars the currency conversions would be more like: 2-300 baht (5-8 USD) and 500 to 1500 baht (13 to 38 USD) based on 40 baht = 1 USD

First night in Pattaya, first bar I hit:
I sat down on the unborn naugahide. Even before I finished ordering a drink, the homeliest num in the bar--Still, a knockout--came over.
He knelt next to my chair, his eyes were sparkling! Okay, it was the reflection of the damn strobe lights but sexy as hell, just the same. Num held my hand, looked into my eyes and asked, "I go you?...Okay?"
There was something about him, maybe it was the little bare feet...little bare everything except for what was covered by teeny weeny white bikini briefs--Maybe it was the way he put the beer on the table....
"Sure, I said," in Thai.
He returned, unasked, every evening for three (Long) weeks.

I've been told I shouldn't be allowed out alone...Mai Phen Rai....See what you're up against?
It IS big game hunting--And you are the game. Lie back and enjoy it.

You are there for a vacation. However long, you will find it too short (I hope--And I mean that in the nicest way.). You can:
1.] Simply rule out sex. There's plenty of other things to do in the day & reading at night.
2.]Spend time looking for a "non-money" gay encounter.
3.]Cut right to the chase: Off bars.
Funny how #2 can turn out same-same (Result) as #3--And the most expensive. (I know your concern is not money, I'm just mentioning a fact. And the 'search' might be even put one in danger.)
Don't worry about a bar host being "scarred for life," they know why they are there, most have been around the block more times than a meter-maid on roller skates--But choose wisely and choose well.
I tell them what I like: "Khun _____, Mai, Krabp?". The answer is usually, "Can," "Okay" or "No problem," or a variation on, "Yes." But if it's, "No" (Mai), or "Can not" (Mai Dai.)--Or too much hesitation, I tip, thank & move on...to another bar: Having already been turned down by my first choice, why embarrass him by trying door #2. Even so; I've met a few zonks--But emphasis on, "Few;" estimate 3%. Maybe because I don't make unagreedupon demands: As bad as an, "I do everything," num who does nothing.
The only time I ever saw a look of pain was once when I went to the loo (For post-climax hygiene.) and returned to find him with tears in his eyes, and...in his hand, "Oh, I think you not come back...me."

Oh course you can be sensitive; just because he's a sopaynee doesn't mean one must think about it--Or treat him like one. IMHO, that's why they (Usually) like me--That and, I've been told, "Not smell like falang."

As the judge told me, "Go and peace be with you."
"Peace on you too, judge," I thought.

[Smiles]

"... I might have a hard time enjoying it if I see the pain in his eyes, or at least think I do ... "
HIGHRISE, whatever you get from Thai guys sexually, most assuredly what you will NOT get is a morality play. Any angst will come from you, not them.

Thai guys (especially young Thai guys) think of sex as "sanook" ('fun'). Period. If you have moral qualms about seeing joy in a guy's eyes, then perhaps you shouldn't attempt it at all. But if you like some 'fun' ... then so will they. (Pay a good tip and the fun you provide will be that much more appreciated).

If you end up offing a Thai guy from a GoGo bar, you may get a long-termer who may appear a little bored (he's done it soooo much, for soooo long), but even that's not for certain. The "offing" part of Thailand's bordello is a by a large margin more fun, and more morality-free than in the west. Go with that & don't make it too complicated ... if you can.

And try your best to smell like Edith!! :cheers:

Cheers ...

Ply them with Malibu and Nam Som on the rocks.


And try your best to smell like Edith!!

I wish I could bottle myself!...& so do many others: Think, 'Jinni'...Trapped...In a bottle.

It's Bath & Body Works, Cotton body splash. Two, 8 oz. bottles @ about $11.00--On sale: It works so WTH!...Why waste Ralph Cool @ $60, incl tax\3.4 oz. when the low-priced-spread spreads `em just as well; a means to an ...end.
B & B W also have a coconut scent the num love too much. Warning: coconut + Thai...madness lies this way! I'm ticklish...can only stand so much arm-pit nuzzling,
sniffing,
licking...
lower...
lower....
There!
Theeere!

Stop in at the Telephone Bar around in Patpong 10:30 p.m. and have a drink at the bar. No dancers, no hosts, no sex workers attached. Only people sitting around having drinks and conversations with friends. Within 15 minutes you will find yourself approached by gorgeous, personable young man, especially if you have made eye contact with him more than once. After about a half hour of enjoyable company in which neither of you talks about sex, he will ask you something along the lines of: "How do I get you to take me home with you?" The subject of money will not come up, but you will be generous with him. He knows this from your conversation or he would never have asked you that question. Thais are masters of the soft sell, very much like some automobile or insurance salesman.
Morality is arbitrary. Math is more conclusive. You will receive pleasure for which he will receive money. You exchange value for value. However, it is likely that he will also receive pleasure; in which case he is ahead two to one. If that's okay with you, you've also done a moral good by improving the life of someone with so few options to do so.
And, incidentally, if you have ever had a relationship, you have paid or been paid for sex. You have exchanged value for value. Perhaps you bought gifts so your partner would be interested in remaining with you or you sacrificed something or some association dear to you for a partner. The coinage may have been a little different, but the transaction was the same. So go. Enjoy.

tdperths! No one buys their partner gifts so that they will remain interested. At least not where I am coming from. If your relationship is so shallow then its not worth having. What bollocks, " if you've sacrificed something or some association dear to you for a partner" ie " you have paid for sex"

This is truly scrapping the barrel to justify a good time when that's not necessary, your justification makes it sound something a little more sinister and perverted. Its just a human need this sex stuff and how one gets it depends on each individual. It is not about a proper relationship and is not comparable in my opinion.

You're going to Thailand and you have a moral dilemma? I'd have thought the moral dilemma was in deciding to go at all. It's a bit like going to Las Vegas for the resort facilities but having a moral dilemma about going into a casino. I know it's politically incorrect (and in some countries actually criminal) to think of Thailand purely as a sex destination, but I've been here for 15 years and I'm damned if I can see any other reason for coming (apart from the endless amusement from politicians but I can get that anywhere). And once it's merely a sex destination, why are you concerned about how the sex is acquired?

[HIGHRISE]

You're going to Thailand and you have a moral dilemma? I'd have thought the moral dilemma was in deciding to go at all. It's a bit like going to Las Vegas for the resort facilities but having a moral dilemma about going into a casino. I know it's politically incorrect (and in some countries actually criminal) to think of Thailand purely as a sex destination, but I've been here for 15 years and I'm damned if I can see any other reason for coming (apart from the endless amusement from politicians but I can get that anywhere). And once it's merely a sex destination, why are you concerned about how the sex is acquired?

If you read my original question, you should understand why I asked it and "had" concerns. I've learned through these postings to not take things so seriousley and have a good time. And, as a matter of fact, homintern, I've been to Vegas a few times. Not to gamble, but to see the shows and enjoy the resorts.

Yes Homintern I have also been to Vegas to enjoy the scenery and desert , not once did I gamble. Ok I did try and see the remaining weird German survivor and his white tigers, but he was away. And I only stayed three days then drove to Puerto Vallarta in Mexico for relief. But you can certainly be a tourist in Las Vegas and not gamble or even enter those emporiums, if you've seen the real thing why bother,and if you have not ,you have a lot to look forward too.

Thailand as a sex destination is over rated and dangerous. Thailand as ,amongst others,a tourist destination is fabulous full stop. You might even find true love along the way. Yes one of you will be poor,how you both make up that balance is up you and him !

Another member with a rich fantasy life

[Aunty]

old are you Cedric?

how you both make up that balance is up you and him !

...the call that a Freudian slip, don't they.

First of all most Thais see the off system as a very honorable way of making a living


Um, I dont think so Hon. The off system as you put it is the lowest of the low. A construction worker earning 100B per DAY is, in thai, eyes, more HONOURABLE.


The person you "take off" is not a sex worker, a prostitute... That concept is alien to Thai law, morals, and culture. Yes, you may/will have sex, but if you spend a long time with them, they may invite you to travel to their village and meet their family. This is a big deal, not only mothers and fathers turn out along with the siblings


Oh My Gawd Darl................they are PROSTITUTES. male hookers, hustlers, HOS - Whaaaaatever Darl. The CONCEPT is not alien to Thai culture, as prositution is indeed the worlds oldest profession - and to middle class thais or indeed the majority of thais, as in middle class western world - prositution exists, and if people visit then that is their business - jut because it EXISTS does not mean that it is morally acceptable.

So the money you give them is not to have sex, but is, in fact, a gift

A GIFT???? Hello Hon, it is payment for services rendered. Simple as that - it AINT no gift Darl........... It is the same as paying a crack addicted hoochie on Hollywood Blvd $20.00 for a quick blowie, or a high class male hooker in Zurich - paymen for a services rendered.

And I also wonder how any-one could even try and have anal intercourse with any of them. Our anatomy is generally much too large

Honey, they are up there on that stage showing off their body and cute little butt. Hon, If they are up there selling it Dear, and you are paying, why should you feel bad if you off them and you wanna fuck em? Stretch em and forget em I say - and WHO WANTS to go with them on a jouney to Issan to meet the family..........................................Da rl

[quote="Rainwalker99"]
Yes, I said your guest. The person you "take off" is not a sex worker, a prostitute... That concept is alien to Thai law, morals, and culture. [quote]

That is how you may justify it to yourself but ask the boys and the majority would prefer to be doing something else if the money was as good.

If you wish to convince yourself that the boy is there purely to provide you with a pleasurable time out of the goodness of his heart and is not doing it for the money then just tell him that you are going to off him but not going to tip him and see how long he hangs around.

Hower sex tourists care to dress it up they are employing prostitutes the majority of who would rather not be so. Denying that the boy is a prostitute may ease the consciences of the sex tourists but it does not change the fact that you are paying a boy/girl to do something that to them they would rather not be involved with if circumstances (financial) allowed.

It's good to see our token heterosexual, King Knut, making an appearance and commenting on things that are none of his business

homintern what part sounds fantastical to you? Aunty I am in my early twenties, what has that got to do with the price of eggs. I am not ageist.

Sorry Aunty I didnt mean to shout, homintern has lost his hormone replacement pills,he is taking darts up the arse but it isnt sticking.

It's good to see our token heterosexual, King Knut, making an appearance and commenting on things that are none of his business

Oh dear Homi's not been reasing the posts correctly again.

The orginal poster asked for honest opinions he did not specify that he wanted opinions only from the gay community. It matters not whether the sex tourist is taking off a girl or a boy the situation remains the same they are being employed by the person making the off as a prostitute.

As Rainwalker says in his latest post being a host has been a profession in Thailand ( and everywhere else in the world) for many years and has helped support familiy and extended family but the fact remains that host in the context is just a euphenism for prostitute. In this context is is not considered an honourable profession, if it was so then the boys fasmilies would be boasting to all their friends and relatives what work the boy/girl was actually doing. do they do so? No of course not

Personally I do not have a problem with either side of the transaction if both are willing then all well and good. I simply pointed out that the majority of 'hosts' would be happier doing other work if they could earn the same amount of money and in doing so I answered the OP' question .

Dearest Paul and dearest King (or should that be Paulie-poo and Kongie-poo?)

RW. When someone resorts in the first few words of their post to try and make stupid remark on names it is a sure sign that the rest of their argument is as childish and ill founded at the first sentence.

If you wish to call your offs 'hosts' please continue to do so as:
a)you obviously have a problem with your sensitivity in accepting that you as a sex tourist are employing a prostitute and are seen as such by other Thais. (note: I do not have a problem with prostitution providing the buyer shows respect to the seller)
b) in Thailand hosts (prostitutes) are not considered by their friends and families to be in an honorable profession. Which is one of the reasons that boys/girls will say they are working as waiters/dancers/hotel workers, that way the family although probably fully aware in most cases as to what the boy/girl is doing does not have to lose face amongst family/friends and other villagers by saying that their offspring is a prostitute.

I do not look at this from a western perspective, I have lived and worked in Thailand with Thai people from some of the poorest communites for fifteen years and I am fully aware what how Thais feel about prostitution, yes the money does provide many things that otherwise would not be within their grasp but it does not change the fact that the majority of prostitutes would rather earn the same amount of money doing something else.


As to it being a gift, well there's no price list: Chuck wow 500 baht, cleaning the refrigerator @ 750? You're paying for their companionship and anything after that is optional

Even more self-denying! You off a boy/girl from wherever and you try to ensure that your off will do exactly what you want them to do sexually, or do you really off boys to do your cleaning for you? Are you telling the board that if a boy you off declines your sex requests then you are still willing to pay him ther agreed amount solely for his companionship? I think not.

You righly talk of respect to your hosts maybe you should also be honest with them as well as with yourself.

Incidentally, did you know that the vast majority of Thais don't like their fellow country folk who work in the bars, not because of what they do per se, but for the way they behave that goes against Thai culture.

Quoted from Stickman's column. It is about a bar girl, but the basic theme applies to anyone having to work in a gogo bar.


I always find Stickman's column worth a read.

www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly256.htm (http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly256.htm)

[quote="Rainwalker99"]In 15 years, you might have learned that the Thai translation of "clean the refrigerator" is commonly used as an idiom for anilingus.
quote]

Oh dear you obviously fail realise when someone is winding you up.

I have learned many thing during my years in Thailand one of which is the apparent self denial of many sex tourists in being able to accept that when offing a boy/girl they are offing a prostitute.

As you will see from other posts in both this and other threads prostituition in Thailand is not considered an honourable profession much as you like to think it is in an attempt to ease your conscience. Take a look at the earlier post from 'Joe' and take your head out of the sand and accept the truth which is quite simple - you are a sex tourist and you pay prostitutes ( or as you prefer to call them, hosts) for their services- nothing wrong in that but in trying to present it in any other way shows a lack of both respect and understanding of both the boys you are employing and the Thai culture.

You have still not answered the question that if your 'off 'decided to decline your sexual requests you would still be prepared to pay him for his companionship alone. As they say in Chiang Rai slang 'Kloy Kren' :blackeye:

[dab69]

I request nothing but company for a while of my "host".
I would never expect anything in particular that he might not find fun or acceptable.

Nor do I engage in attempting to interpret for us all differing views of Thai "morality".
Generalizations are logical fallacies. Real science accepts that, as opposed to *interpretive*
science.

Real science does not need emotionally charged propaganda or slanted words like"self-denial" or "abuse", nor does it attempt to brainwash/mind control. That seems to be the domain of social workers since the invasion of women to get their degrees in interpretive *science*.
Fortunately no one has to listen/subscribe to them.

since the time I was a young lass first growing hair I could sit on and was forced to rely on the kindness of strangers...I bit the bullet and though"what the hell!"...just dive in headlong with your boots on !.

Not all young chaps-or nice gels like me, find the job of "hosting" or "escort" as tiresome as many of our more conservative farang friends would like to think. Nor do many families think particularly ill of their lad's dalliances with older foreign gents-they simply look the other way and count the baht as it rolls in prefering not to think about the scource..or in my mother's case actually arranged my bookings and gave me a good slapping if the day's takings weren't up to par.

Never judge another country with the values you bring from home and you may be pleasantly surprised !..most working chaps in Thailand get over their earlier "career" and go on to have successful family lives none the worse for wear.

Of course in my case I'm simply referred to as "that old slapper" down at the South Pattaya Carpet Bowls club but I think it's meant in jest. :cheers:

As to it being a gift, well there's no price list: Chuck wow 500 baht, cleaning the refrigerator @ 750? You're paying for their companionship and anything after that is optional

Even more self-denying! You off a boy/girl from wherever and you try to ensure that your off will do exactly what you want them to do sexually, or do you really off boys to do your cleaning for you?

Reminds me of a joke. A prostitute approaches a man and says, "Honey, I'll do anything you want for $300" The man thinks about this for a minute and then reaches for his billfold. He hand sthe hooker the money and says, "OK, bitch, paint my house!"

This thread has got me thinking, and now has my social justice side worked up. So in the interest of helping these boys find "face" I have decided that I will allow *them* to pay *me* for sex. There we go - everyone should be happy!

[Aunty]

prepared to bet that King Kong is American. America and its Christian Reich grows people with these types of alpha-male views. Europeans on the other hand are more tolerant and live-and-let-live. They've learnt the hard way, having spent much of last century slaughtering each other.

I pay prostitutes for sex. I like paying prostitutes for sex, they leave at the end of it. Prostitution is an honourable profession and requires lots of people skills. Prostitutes not only have to provide sexual services, they may also have to lend a shoulder to cry on, give company, conversation, a sympathetic ear. Provide a sense of fun, lost youth etc.

I know lots of prostitutes. I've known lots of prostitutes. I like sex workers, they are generally nice people. I've had friends who were on the game, both men and women. More than just a few love their job. It's exciting, interesting, dull, a chore, much like life really, fancy that! They get to meet interesting people, sometimes have great sex, the pay is great and the hours are short. I know a Dean of a Medical School (American) who was a prostitute, to pay his way through college (that's why he has that little twinkle in his eye, and why he's so good at rapidly sizing people up). teachers on the game to help pay the mortgage. Who knows what your dentist got up to 20 years ago, or the vicar (pasta for our 'American Christianity' friends)

Those who look down upon those of us who pay for sex and say we are doing something unsavory and immoral and who use subjective language like abuse, denial, exploitation etc are projecting their own personal prejudice and one-sided bias about and against prostitution on to people around them. If someone considers prostitution ichy, so what? Who the hell are they? That is a matter of opinion only, it's their morals and guess what, I don't share them. What goes on between consenting adults is none of their business. And what is their alternative for the sex-worker they wish to put out of business? Who's going to pay for the kids, the family, the education. In a country like Thailand, all that will do is to return many of these boys and girls to poverty. And that's the problem with these dogooders. That is the crisis their position is in, their dishonesty. They never offer an alternative, and you sure as hell can't live off their mighty fine sentiments.

ahem, Aunty maybe every-one should become a prostitute in their "gap year" it sounds like a very well rounded way to broaden the horizon,and meet your future dentist. Personal anecdotes aside, even us continental Europeans recognise the side affects of the flesh industry and they are not quite so honourable. But these are different issues, empowerment being one. Here we have tried but to a great extent failed. Ms Hollander step forward and collect your Barfter.

While I dont know enough about the sex industry in Thailand,could it be that pimps there are sugar sweet and the little issues of the slave trade mere Babarella type fun days ?

homintern what part sounds fantastical to you? ... I am in my early twenties
I think that's known as answering your own question. "Youth is wasted on the young" is one of my favourite sayings

While I dont know enough about the sex industry in Thailand
Indeed

homintern you are so ageist. Youth is not wasted on the young, we know far more than you did at our age, this forum for one makes sure of that. We are less cynical about love perhaps. You might say you wish you knew what you know now when you were younger but if you did you would have had no youth at all. That is our only danger. :bounce:

And what is their alternative for the sex-worker they wish to put out of business? Who's going to pay for the kids, the family, the education. In a country like Thailand, all that will do is to return many of these boys and girls to poverty. And that's the problem with these dogooders. That is the crisis their position is in, their dishonesty. They never offer an alternative, and you sure as hell can't live off their mighty fine sentiments.

Aunty; I thought you knew! Once they've shut down the fun houses, they then step forth, like Lady Bountiful, and hire the, now destitute, sex therapists for honest work; like trimming their lawns with manicure scissors--At 10-baht-an-hour--and bend them over while the other-half's busy: out buying the booze.


We once had a friend who loved sex and was always broke...son in military school and all that. I suggested she turn pro. She said she'd thought of it but couldn't bring herself to: because...then it would be work!


My Mama used to call me, Darl. She thought I looked like Darla in the Little Rascals (Our Gang?) comedies that were on telly when she was a little girl.
Ever since I won the Goober Baby Food contest; she was so taken with the idea of me being a child star--She borrowed a gag from Tallulah: "They filmed Shirley Temple through gauze; they can shoot Edith through linoleum!"-- she'd sit down at the baby grand and make me go through the Noel Coward Song Book with her every day after school...Love For Sale was my favorite, naturally: all those 5P I raked in behind the garage...and several shilling from the dear Vicker...plus hush money.
One day she heard me tell Gus I couldn't come out and play behind the garage because it was time for Sing-Along-With-Bitch. Boy, did I get my hot little knickers warmed!

Real science does not need emotionally charged propaganda or slanted words like"self-denial" or "abuse", nor does it attempt to brainwash/mind control. That seems to be the domain of social workers since the invasion of women to get their degrees in interpretive *science*.
Fortunately no one has to listen/subscribe to them.

OTOH When the scientist have unravelled all the equations of the universe and the robots built the alternative, the humans will have become redundant.

One of the greatest contributions of science during the 20th century was to develop health care solutions and services the majority of humanity will never be able to afford. Your boyfriend's mother will leave this existence with more dignity. So who is being abused and is the inadvertant abuser wearing a white coat... unless of course the social and political "scientists" have brought about some massive re-ordering such that the benefits can be accessed by all.

[Bob]

Aunty said: "Europeans on the other hand are more tolerant and live-and-let-live. They've learnt the hard way, having spent much of last century slaughtering each other. "

What a friggin' hoot! I must go out and kill a few dozen people this week so I can learn to be more tolerant.

Your boyfriend's mother will leave this existence with more dignity
Maybe. But probably not. This Is Thailand. It is illegal to turn off a life-support system, unlike in the West

No Bob, and I dont presume to speak for Aunty, but as the killing has been done maybe just learn from the result.

[hulljake]

it does not change the fact that you are paying a boy/girl to do something that to them they would rather not be involved with if circumstances (financial) allowed.
Every employer I've worked for has paid me to do something that I'd rather not be doing if financial circumstances allowed.

Are you telling the board that if a boy you off declines your sex requests then you are still willing to pay him ther agreed amount solely for his companionship? I think not.
I doubt that any employer I've worked for would be willing to pay me solely to "turn up" to work.