"Him laydeee, him gay, me boy!"

[netrix]

I was going to respond to the post "Bar Boys - Gay or straight, does it matter?"
but I didn't want to derail that train-wreck any farther. So here's my
interesting observation....

I have a friend (Puk) who works in a bar in Pattaya who I've seen the past few trips.
I usually off him 3 or 4 times each trip so we've gotten to know each other
kinda well as far as personality, as well as sexually. This boy is really sweet
but likes to think of himself as tough - all guy. Here's what's interesting to me...

One time in the bar he was sitting with me, pointing out his friends on stage
and telling me about them. One of the boys on stage was really flirty with me
and I asked Puk if he was gay. He shook his head no rather vigorously
and said "him boy!" Then he started pointing out which of the guys were "gay"
according to him. He pointed and named a few, then pointed to a couple of
obvious lady boys, and said "him laydeee." Then he pointed to some of the
remaining guys and classified them as "boys." He used that descriptive for
himself with a little bit of pride, and more than a little hint of dislike for the
"gay" or lady boys. I got the sense that he just didn't like to be thought of
as effeminate like them.

He's the type of boy who likes to flex his arms and chest to impress you. He
has a gorgeous physique, not overly buff, but cut and a little muscl-ey. He
has a tattoo one of his pecs he's really proud of. Longish hair but not too
made up...you know the type. But...he's really sweet and kissy-kissy in the bar.
AND...

When we're hanging out away from the bar, he's just as affectionate. He
always wants to hold hands on the street, in the mall, in the restaurant. He
loves kissing and does it sometimes in public (to my slight embarrassment.)
In bed, he's a big cuddler after sex. Loves sucking, being rimmed, being
fucked! He's not femmy at all, but very affectionate. He wants to play
around in the shower together after, and always wants to get off again in
the morning. *whew*

anyway...back to the point, haha.

He describes himself proudly as "boy," not "man." He makes the clear
distinction that he's not gay and definitely doesn't want anything to do with
a lady boy. But in bed he kisses and bottoms like he's passionately in love.
Maybe he's a good actor, but damn he's good at it.

So does anyone have any experience with this? What do the guys consider "gay"
vs. "boy." And when you meet someone who says they're not gay, how do
you ask them if they like sex or if they bottom, especially if they don't want
the guys in the bar to know?? ;)

By the way, I have no idea if Puk actually prefers girls, or if he has sex with
any of his Thai friends, or if he's just gay for pay. One time we were lying
in bed just cuddling and he was just looking at me and smiling and I said
"Pom chorp khun." (I like you.) He kissed me and whispered in my ear,
"Pom rak khun." I melted.

gay, bi, "boy", "man" - who knows.

[Wesley]

I preferably would rather have a non effeminate gay guy in bed, or an ordinary gay guy and occasionally one that is a bit effeminate. But, if I knew he was straight I would not go out with him.

Wes

bisexual.

[kittyboy]

I was going to respond to the post "Bar Boys - Gay or straight, does it matter?"
but I didn't want to derail that train-wreck any farther. So here's my
interesting observation....

I have a friend (Puk) who works in a bar in Pattaya who I've seen the past few trips.
I usually off him 3 or 4 times each trip so we've gotten to know each other
kinda well as far as personality, as well as sexually. This boy is really sweet
but likes to think of himself as tough - all guy. Here's what's interesting to me...

One time in the bar he was sitting with me, pointing out his friends on stage
and telling me about them. One of the boys on stage was really flirty with me
and I asked Puk if he was gay. He shook his head no rather vigorously
and said "him boy!" Then he started pointing out which of the guys were "gay"
according to him. He pointed and named a few, then pointed to a couple of
obvious lady boys, and said "him laydeee." Then he pointed to some of the
remaining guys and classified them as "boys." He used that descriptive for
himself with a little bit of pride, and more than a little hint of dislike for the
"gay" or lady boys. I got the sense that he just didn't like to be thought of
as effeminate like them.

He's the type of boy who likes to flex his arms and chest to impress you. He
has a gorgeous physique, not overly buff, but cut and a little muscl-ey. He
has a tattoo one of his pecs he's really proud of. Longish hair but not too
made up...you know the type. But...he's really sweet and kissy-kissy in the bar.
AND...

When we're hanging out away from the bar, he's just as affectionate. He
always wants to hold hands on the street, in the mall, in the restaurant. He
loves kissing and does it sometimes in public (to my slight embarrassment.)
In bed, he's a big cuddler after sex. Loves sucking, being rimmed, being
fucked! He's not femmy at all, but very affectionate. He wants to play
around in the shower together after, and always wants to get off again in
the morning. *whew*

anyway...back to the point, haha.

He describes himself proudly as "boy," not "man." He makes the clear
distinction that he's not gay and definitely doesn't want anything to do with
a lady boy. But in bed he kisses and bottoms like he's passionately in love.
Maybe he's a good actor, but damn he's good at it.

So does anyone have any experience with this? What do the guys consider "gay"
vs. "boy." And when you meet someone who says they're not gay, how do
you ask them if they like sex or if they bottom, especially if they don't want
the guys in the bar to know?? ;)

By the way, I have no idea if Puk actually prefers girls, or if he has sex with
any of his Thai friends, or if he's just gay for pay. One time we were lying
in bed just cuddling and he was just looking at me and smiling and I said
"Pom chorp khun." (I like you.) He kissed me and whispered in my ear,
"Pom rak khun." I melted.

gay, bi, "boy", "man" - who knows.


Thanks for the post.
It would be interesting to get a better idea of how he distingished between: Gay, Boy, Man, Ladyboy -

I guess that is one of the attractive yet maddening things about visiting thailand - In the west we tend to have more distinct lines drawn. You are gay or straight. Male or Female - I often get the impression that those kind of identities are more fluid in thailand.

I wonder if identity in thailand is more fluid or if the necessity of making a living and surviving makes it seem to westerners that identity is more fluid in thailand.

[x in pattaya]

I wonder if identity in thailand is more fluid or if the necessity of making a living and surviving makes it seem to westerners that identity is more fluid in thailand.

Basically the obsession with sexual identity/labels is more western than Thai and more gay than straight and even if sexual self-identity was something on a ThaiтАЩs mind, he wouldn't go about establishing a sense of himself using English words. And it's not simply a matter of translating English words into Thai.

Most Thais probably have no Thai word equivalent for тАЬstraightтАЭ in their vocabulary and thus resort to calling themselves тАЬpoochaiтАЭ although outside the sex biz that meaning for the word would probably seldom be used.

Homosexual Thais probably go through all the tortured confusion that many of us experienced, but any village-based Thai vocabulary that might be applicable probably derives from nasty name-calling and is unlikely to be embraced when forming thoughts about oneтАЩs own identity.

So if you ask poorly educated Thais who grew up in small villages, as a part of families whose main preoccupation in life was feeding themselves, to classify themselves sexually using English language labels for a concept more readily discussed in the west тАж itтАЩs not totally surprising that the responses seem to be fluid, vague and ill informed.

Gay, ladyboy, kathoey, transsexual, bisexual, straight ... you can't expect well-reasoned classifications using English words from a guy whose English vocabulary is stretched when he says, "Where you come from?" ... and whose total sense of self-identity is largely formed by the family to which he belongs and his favorite buffalo.

I'm all for fluid.

:cheers:

[kittyboy]

I'm all for fluid.

:cheers:

I agree - I am all for fluid as it seems to put more guys on the market as it were.
I don't live in thailand so I have no first hand knowledge of how thai's construct their identities.

Maybe they are taking a hint from the old gag - Being bi-sexual doubles your chances of getting a date.