Bar Boys - Gay or straight, does it matter?

[Chuai-Duai]

I've been reading posts here for a long time and am a regular visitor to Thailand, particularly Pattaya, who's been "offing" boys from Go Go Bars for years.

Recently there have been comments in various different threads about whether a particular Go Go Boy was gay or not or about asking the mamasan about a boy's sexuality. There have also been comments about some bars having more straight boys than others.

I have to say that in all the years I've been visiting I have never asked about a boy's sexuality or, in most cases, has it even occurred to me as being important.

I've no idea whether the majority of the boys I've "offed" would have regarded themselves as gay or not.

They worked in a Bar where the understanding was that they were available and I made use of that availability. I've rarely had a disappointment and have enjoyed the company of many very nice young men and had some great sex.

Thai guys do seem to have a more flexible attitude to sexuality so does it matter if a Bar Boy thinks of themselves as gay or not?

[thrillbill]

I think that many of the guys tend to be "flexable"--if they're having fun, who cares? --But what I don't understand is why so many Thai gays think a male has to act "fem" , girlie, or whatever to be gay. My former Thai BF was very masculine and muscular and the Thais would think both of us were NOT gay. Why? "Because we didn't act gay." (in their words)

[x in pattaya]

The simple answer is that it matters to some people, one way or another, and to others it doesn't matter. You can't say it does or doesn't matter full-stop, as if everyone felt in only one way. As we discussed in my thread about old biddies who think everyone has to behave in one way alert-old-biddies-amongst-us-a-personal-rant-t17126.html?hilit=biddies (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/alert-old-biddies-amongst-us-a-personal-rant-t17126.html?hilit=biddies) "we" are all different people with different wants, needs, passions.

For many years I've read posts by people who thought they were revealing a secret by stating, in their words, that most of the boys in the bars were straight ... shock, gasp.

If it doesn't matter to you, that's wonderful. Some people seem to think it's a treasonable offence to prefer straight boys.
I prefer masculine acting boys and the boys who are best at acting masculine are straight boys. I also have found that the response, the interaction with me, the general behavior of straight boys is more enjoyable for me than that of gay boys. It may not matter that much if you only spend a couple of hours in bed and say "bye-bye', but I tend to stick with boys over longer periods of time and then it does matter more to me.

Watching some guy standing still on a stage doesn't always reveal his mannerisms etc, so I find that useful information to get. Some people freak out about tops or bottoms or hairy versus smooth or circumsized versus uncut or tattoos or piercings or cigarette smoking or spiky hair.

I GENERALLY DO NOT ASK the boy or the mamasan if I've seen the boy moving around or dancing energetically or interacting with other boys because then I have a better feel for his mannerisms, but if I don't get enough visual feed-back or am uncertain about how he may act in a different setting I MAY ASK.

As I said in the other thread, some guys like ladyboys, some like fems, twinks, bears, chubbs, et al ... so yes for all of us who have some preferences, it does matter.

I have offed some great gay guys whose behavior was not obviously gay, but generally I like men. Why that preference bothers some people is a never-ending mystery to me. A dark skinned lean man with defined abs, long straight black hair, a few tattoos, cheek bones to die for & dark pools for eyes ...haven't got my hands on all of that in one package yet, but the closer I get the nearer I am to nirvana.

[jolyjacktar]

I gotta agree with the above posting. Who cares if the guy is gay or het, if he gives me good company for a required period thats all that matters to me. As it happens i swing both ways.....so what :king:

[catawampuscat]

There was a time when 'gay' meant limp wristing effete prissy men and
then things evolved and for a while butch clones became the standard
but today gay men are represented by the full range of possible types.

Thailand is evolving a little slower than the West and 'gay' still means
kateuy or lady boy/men to most.
Men who would be considered gay in the West, have ladyboy as their
partner and think of themselves as straight as they play the top role
and the ladyboy the bottom. The fact that the partner is male and has a
penis is overlooked and somehow topping the fem boy is hetero behavior.

This was similar in the Western countries and many gay men thought of
themselves as straight because they got serviced and not the other way
around..
This is all changing and evolving and I agree with the author of this thread
about asking the boy's sexuality. He may tell you he is puchai or man,
meaning straight and have a very fem lady boy in his bed every nite and
still see himself as straight..
It gets confusing and one has to drop Western
definitions and just understand that most young people are sexual with definite preferences and if the boy can do what you like, does it really make a difference what category you put him in..

Of course this is a generalization but I can't tell you how often a boy tells
a farang he is gay and when the farang is away the boy is with his female
lady and their children. He is gay when he is with the farang and straight when he isn't. There are many variations on this theme and some of the
fem ladyboys are tops and some are almost dykes and as the old saying
goes, variety is the spice of life.

I have had great sex with straight boys and lousy sex with gay boys, so I
don't give a fuck about trying to pin a label on the boys and frankly they
will be whatever you want as long as you play your role of patron and benefactor and movable ATM.. Reality bites sometimes but boy oh boy does
it all work out just fine without worrying about if your bf is really gay or just
gay for pay.. just one man's opinion :cat:

[x in pattaya]

Well, I will agree with Cat in that gay or ladyboy or straight are nebulous terms, especially here. Maybe rather than saying I prefer straight boys, I should say I prefer boys who see themselves as straight/man/poochai and act accordingly.

But it is not solely a matter of what happens in bed. Especially with my LT friend with whom I interact on every level and in different situations and different contexts. I find very femmy behavior to be irritating. I enjoy sex with him and I enjoy his company at all other times. The fact that he has pictures of a bunch of sexy women on his computer doesn't bother me in the least. I like/love HIM because of everything that he is. If he confessed tomorrow that he is in fact gay, that wouldn't change anything for me, because I still love HIM however he may be categorized.

That may sound QUEER and difficult to logically defend, but I am QUEER or otherwise I wouldn't be joining in this discussion.


I gotta agree with the above posting. Who cares if the guy is gay or het, if he gives me good company for a required period thats all that matters to me. As it happens i swing both ways.....so what :king:

That's nice and I agree with you if he is good company that's important, but there must be some things that matter. If he were obese but amusing or if he was covered with tattoos or had long hair or short hair or metal objects in his nose etc.

For some people some of these things would matter while for others they wouldn't. That's what makes this non-homogenized world keep spinning. It doesn't mean there is essentially something good or bad about the boy, it just means he may be or may not be appealing to some of us.

Most of the above posts talk about company with a straight or gay boy, of course in that case, it is only who you are comfortable with.

As for sex, I think it matters. Many farangs who are passive, because of their looks or weight don't really excite boys (you can't blame them when you see some of the sights around Thailand), so they have to give them some viagra and maybe some alcohol to be able to get any sexual arousal from mainly straight boys. For farangs who are active, inflicting pain to a straight boy is rarely satisfactory as the don't enjoy it.
On the other hand, a gay boy would probably really enjoy it and to hear the sounds of joy makes all the difference - enjoyment and satisfaction all around.

Saying all that, most 20yo easily get an erection with a man or woman, gay or straight, try and remember when you were 20ish. Enjoyment for both parties having intercourse is, I think very important. To see a poor bar boy jacking off just to get a few bucks is not really enjoyable. Many bar boys do have to take drugs and/or alcohol to go with a farangs anyway - Thais generally prefer it between themselves - the difference is just money. But does money buy satisfaction?

[x in pattaya]

so they have to give them some viagra and maybe some alcohol to be able to get any sexual arousal from mainly straight boys.

Disagree. Most boys I see don't drink more than a beer or two and some stick with Coke and I sure never offered them any drugs.


Saying all that, most 20yo easily get an erection with a man or woman, gay or straight,

Agree. Guys in their 20's can get an erection for just about anything.


Many bar boys do have to take drugs and/or alcohol to go with a farangs anywa?

Can't say for sure beyond personal experiences, but the guys I've been with have taken little or no alcohol and show no signs of being under the influence of drugs, which they could hardly afford anyway. Certainly anyone who has stayed with me over a period of time has resorted to neither drugs nor booze ... and it isn't because I'm all that sexually alluring either. :rabbit:

[Alaan]

I don't think there is a standard rule book for barboy behaviour or definite guidlines..... to be honest.... some days I am more in the mood for certain things than others and I'm sure boys are the same... good days and not so good days... mostly for me it is down to the feeling between two people at a specific time.....

I agree that all 20 year olds would be able to have an erection at virtually anything... however I do feel that whether they are on some type of drug or have been drinking definitely plays a part in how they feel at a particular time or what they may be prepared to do.

But I do agree that as a top, sex with a gay bottom who might actually enjoy the experience is much more of an enjoyable experience for me than having sex with a boy who finds it painful or unable to be enthusiatic because he dislikes whatever I want to do... although I am realistic enough to accept that if a boy is in the trade whether gay or straight and if i pay what is acceptable to him, he will probably do what I wish, provinding that it is not extreme. So for my personal enjoyment I think it does matter whether gay or straight when it comes to sex....

When it comes to company or sanook it certainly doesn't matter gay or straight, as it is down to the personality of the person... and although over-camp/girly displays are not my favourite... I certainly don't get embarassed when out in Pattaya if someone like that is in my company...

On the drugs question....I have stated before that I think many farang would be surprised just how many boys are on 'something' ......I think it is easier to tell if boys who are on yaba and harder drugs.... as some of the signs are just too obvious... on the other hand I think if a boy is on something like ganja/dope or milder happy-feeling enducing pills... it would be very difficult to know if they were on anything. So I am cautious about stating if a boy is definitely NOT on anything as x in pattaya feels confident to state. On the softer drugs it is not down to the cost... If you talk to the boys and and build up an understanding they will tell more and you will find that although the yaba and harder drugs are quite expensive for a boy making a living in the bars, softer drugs such as ganja are very cheap about bt150 per bag from info given to me.... which will produce a good few spliffs and cost easily shared etc....

Personally if I know for sure a boy is on yaba or the likes i will drop him like a stone.....with softer drugs and hard to tell I would probably give benefit of doubt but I would certainly, never, under any circumstances use ANY type of drug myself whilst in Thailand. It would just not be worth the hassle/repercussions especially when I find myself in a happy enough state just simply by being in Thailand for a holiday and I find alchohol is enough to 'get me going' if i need a lift.

[Impulse]

I was in los for 3 weeks about 10 days ago and ran the gaumet of different type boys. I tend to like the beer bars as the boys there are usually gay and dont mind staying overnight,unlike go go boys. I spent most time with a fem gay boy from a beer bar as i liked his company.He was versatile and topped me once,I didnt mind since he wasnt very big in size. Then one night I had a ladyboy from a beer bar.He was 27.a little older than I like,but was very good in bed and at least pretended to enjoy me topping him. And I went to the only upstairs gogo joint in sunee and watched a bored guy playing with his cell phone.Well,he had a nice body so I had a drink with him and took him back to my place.He was just as bored acting as in the bar,when I asked him if I could top him he said "up to you".Well I believe him when he said I was first falang he was with,I enjoyed topping him but he was in obvious pain.After it was over he kissed me and seemed relieved it was over. He said he was straight and it really hit me that this guy would go thru this act just for money. I tipped him well and the next time I went to his gogo joint,he lit up when he saw me and came over to e rubbing my arm. What an attitude change a good tip will do. I had greAt sex again,unfortunatly my last night there.i would see him again,dont care if hes straight or not.He asked me to go to his home town with him. That would be pushing it obviously as he is straight. Im more fussy about the boys looks than his sexuality when it comes down to it.

[x in pattaya]

On the drugs question....I have stated before that I think many farang would be surprised just how many boys are on 'something' ......I think it is easier to tell if boys who are on yaba and harder drugs.... as some of the signs are just too obvious... on the other hand I think if a boy is on something like ganja/dope or milder happy-feeling enducing pills... it would be very difficult to know if they were on anything. So I am cautious about stating if a boy is definitely NOT on anything as x in pattaya feels confident to state.

With the guys I've offed for a day or two, I can't confidently say anything about their habits. They did not appear drunk, glassy eyed, uncoordinated or otherwise impaired, or I would never have offed them. Most drugs that would have a meaningful effect on their "mood" would not magically leave all their other faculties sharp, but no I can't say absolutely that none have ever taken anything.

Of those who I have frequently offed, they usually have a soft drink at the bar and some do not want anything alcoholic when we are at my home. Others will nurse a beer or two for a fairly long time. Usually we have an unstated agreement that the beer comes after the sex because I have found that even a small amount of alcohol reduces, not improves, sexual performance.

I have known a couple of boys whose behavior was somewhat erratic. It could very well have been because of drugs. I dropped them because of their behavior, so it certainly didn't help them in their "work."

Of the two guys I have known for very long times and with whom I have stayed 24/7 at length, yes, I can say they do not take drugs of any kind or drink anything beyond a Heineken or two. Even hauling them down to a pharmacy for some medicine for cold symtoms or stomach ache or getting them to take a couple of paracetamol for a headache has been met with resistance. Both of them did smoke cigarettes and I got them to stop that. And yes, you know if someone is sneaking a cigarette or two on the side. They reek.

One of them actually disliked visiting Sunnee because he claimed there was too much yaa baa and he voted for Taksin because he liked what he did with drug dealers.

I realize drugs are pervasive and anyone who remains a gogo boy for long is going to be exposed to them, but the guys I like and see repeatedly or long term tend to be the ones who pride themselves on their bodies,exercise or enjoy sports, have a decent self image, maintain strong ties with family back home, etc and have a view of life that extends beyond the next paid blow job. They are also very affectionate & sexual. Some people can be that way without drugs.

[Patexpat]

Does it matter? No of course not - life is not black and white but shades of grey, no more so than in the LOS.

I know a gogo boy I first offed some 8 to 10 years ago ... was excellent as a companion and in bed and am still in friendly contact with him ... and quite often bump in to him and his partner and their baby in a rather nice but inexpensive Thai restaurant we both favour - (and BTW has the CUTEST set of waiters!)

He still works as a gogo 'boy' in BBB, has stunning Japanese looks and bod to die for .... :sunny:

[latintopxxx]

Its a business, selling pleasure and "good times", anal sex is not restricted to screaming feminine cross dessing aunties, sure straight boys can and some do restrict themselves to performing as tops only; but if they want to widen their customer base and increase revenue then bottoming is an option.

I like men, let me rephrase that, I LOVE MEN, and my ultimate is fucking a masculine man, whether he is gay or not is immaterial to me, not going to marry him, just want to rent him for an hour or so....

In my opinion the biggest block to bottoming is mental, not wanting to be the passive/woman, this can be difficult especially (but not only) for straight guys.

[Dodger]

X Wrote:


A dark skinned lean man with defined abs, long straight black hair, a few tattoos, cheek bones to die for & dark pools for eyes ...

...sounds like Darth Vadar to me !

It seems that everyone here agrees about one thing anyway: It really doesn't matter if the boy is gay or str8 as long as he turns you on in bed. It's nice to see everyone in agreement for once, but frankly, I think you all belong to the same football team - and played for a long time without helmuts on.

It's bad enough for a farang being strapped with the handicap of being so much older, but then toss in the fact that the boy your with isn't evan gay...wow...seems like a lot of imagination would be required to even think that the boy enjoys sliding on the bed next to you.

I guess for some, this doesn't matter. Let me re-phrase that: It appears that most of you could care less about the feelings of the human being your with, as long as he acts the part well enough to feed your warped apitites. Or, could this reaction on your part be based on the opinion that the "human being part" simply doesn't matter, due to the fact that the boy is selling his body for your enjoyment. Hmmm, I'll have to ponder on that for a while.

Yes, we all have our own preferences, and I've seen the whole range of these preferences over the past 10 years, from the 80 y/o grandpa's who enjoy being fucked by 20 y/o bodybuilders - to the seedy perverts who lurd in the shadows grappling around in the shorts of 9 y/o school boys. Then comes the brilliant comment: "I know he was str8, but I think he actually enjoyed it." Give me a break. Just imagine what his 18 y/o girlfriend looks like with her clothes off, and then scoot your fat ass in front of the mirror naked and look at yourself, - you deranged fool.

To set the record straight, I'm not saying you guys are fucked in the head because you have a different opinion from mine. I'm saying your fucked in the head because you chose to de-humanize people...just because you can. Yes, I know what you're thinking, that if they didn't want to do it - they wouldn't be there in the first place...right ? Wrong. If you want to challege that comment, just imagine your gay ass at age 20 being so poor that you didn't have enough food to feed your family, and then crawling into bed to service a 70 y/o flappy skinned women for a $20 tip. I can just her grandma now..."he enjoyed it"..."he really did". It must have been those fast hip movements I put on at the end.

[Impulse]

Well Dodger,I agree with most of what you say BUT... What would become of all the straight boys if us gay men never offed them? The straight guy I took was very bored when I saw him,but was ecstatic to see me the next time I came to his bar.He gave me his phone number and invited me to his home town. Of course it was because I tip well,I gave him 2,000 baht the first time and 3,000 baht the last time. I know he didnt enjoy the sex but he enjoyed the money,the reason hes there. I know the next guy probably wont tip him as well as I did,and he will be disapointed and maybe leave the bar scene,but I feel I did the right thing by tipping him well. btw,I blew half a million baht renovating my studio there so tipping well for a boy who doesnt like anal sex was good in my book. I know mant will say Im ruining it for the rest by over tipping.Too bad,Im making up for the cheaoskates out there. I never deluded myself into thinking the boy was enamored with a fifty year old man.

Ultimately all the bar boys have all made a choice to work in the bars, so I don't see the problem in being a customer.

[x in pattaya]

It really doesn't matter if the boy is gay or str8 as long as he turns you on in bed...seems like a lot of imagination would be required to even think that the boy enjoys sliding on the bed next to you.

I guess for some, this doesn't matter. Let me re-phrase that: It appears that most of you could care less about the feelings of the human being your [sic] with, as long as he acts the part well enough to feed your warped apitites [sic].

And you think a gay 20 year old boy is thrilled to be in bed with some fat old farang?

I have never said that the straight boys... at the moment my current LT friend, one guy from Cupidol and one from Cartier would want sex with me if no other consideration were involved. The two bar boys chose to work in the bars. When they come to see me they get food, drinks and can watch football or whatever they want on satellite TV. The only sexual thing I require of them is probably the easiest thing in the world for a straight boy to do. And none of them has ever had the least problem doing it. Judging by the force & volume when they cum, it may not be their first choice for sex, but they sure aren't in any pain. And the two bar boys get regular offs with someone they feel comfortable with, who tips them well beyond anything I would admit to here and who has provided additional support to them on several occasions.

My current LT friend and his two predecessors worked in bars and I retired them from that work. One of them went into something to do with tourism. I haven't seen him in a few years so I'm not sure what he's doing now, but I saw him through the training and he was on his way with (I think) TAT when we parted company. The second has gone back to farming at home, but I continue to help him out even though I rarely see him anymore.We talk on the phone weekly and that's about the extent of the dehumanizing I put him through.

The current LT friend I've set up in business after paying for computer training and buying him computers, video game equipment, scanners, a digital camera and paying the rent for a shop for a full year, etc. When I first came across him he was working in a bar in Soi Twilight. After I offed him twice, the next time I saw him he asked if he could sleep one day at my room at the Tarntawan because he had just been put out of his room for nonpayment of rent. He hated the bar work and his prospects for an improved life were just about nil.

Before he started the computer classes I taught him a few basic things, but in less than a year he has gotten into basic computer graphics and can produce printed material to order, ID cards, passport photos etc, he has a few video game stations for kids to use and has a thriving business. He's building a home on some land his mother gave him. He only spends a few days at a time with me because that's the way I want it and the rest of the time he's home with his family, establishing a respectable business and building a home for himself.

When he's here, he spends most of his time with his laptop on the Internet, checking out the latest stuff at TukCom, watching sports or movies on satellite TV and yes, a few times I want some sex with him and he enjoys it because it's the only payback I ever want from him.

I'm not sure if I can manage it financially, but I'd like to retire one of the other barboys and find him something to do that will lead to a better life for him as well.

Now fuck-off, you tell me I could care less about them. Yes they enjoy having sex with me insofar as they're ready, willing and able to do something I enjoy in return for what I've done for them and/or the concern I've shown for them & their futures.


"I'm saying your [sic] fucked in the head because you chose to de-humanize people...just because you can."

I'll compare what I've done any day to you and your gossipy crap about red-eyed monks that you've decided must be on yaa baa. You are a know nothing, pompous parasite.


Chickenboy...

On the slight chance that the picture shown in your avatar is actually you, I would love to have you teach me some Thai phrases some time. I'm a slow learner, so it will require a lot of time and patience on your end.

Just let me know if you're interested ?

What an enormous creep you are.

[dab69]

wow that was nice

does it matter? not to me. If they're cute and cool it's fine with me.
And I'm not old and fat like X

[Dodger]

X...first of all I think you're full of shit, and don't buy into any of your fables.

Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack. Sounds like a person thats flooded with guilt and self-doubt (or self-loathing) to me.

Or...I guess that it's possible that you actually caught a glimps of yourself in the mirror...and all hell broke out...555

[Smiles]

" ... Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack. Sounds like a person thats flooded with guilt and self-doubt (or self-loathing) to me ... "
Dearest Dodger,
I tremblingly admit to knowing X-in-Pattaya personally (rather than biblically, though not from lack of him trying his best) and I can assure you that 'perverted life style" is as far from an accurate observation as I can imagine.
"Self-doubt" ... well maybe, but 'nit noi'.

Cheers ...

[Impulse]

Dodger,what your saying is that everyone on this board is living a perverted lifestyle.X was having sex with another man. Just because the other man is straight doesnt make it any more "perverted". Oh well ,back to watching "swimming to Cambodia with Spalding grey.

[x in pattaya]

X...first of all I think you're full of shit, and don't buy into any of your fables.

Easily substantiated ... the alleged fables, that is. The next time that Khun Smiles is in town he can interrogate the computer wizard and he already has met the retired rice farmer.



Secondly, after writing five paragraphs trying to rationlize your perverted life style, you go on the vicious attack.


I know writing 5 coherent paragraphs would be quite an undertaking for you, but it really didn't require that much effort.


Actually I was responding to a vicious attack from a sex tourist who dabbles in package tours of the rural areas, which he erroneously feels makes him an expert on life in the third world.

I gather your nonsensical rant was motivated by frustration because one more 'friend" in a lengthening succession of ladyboys you hire for company, has headed off for greener pasture ... or should I say less suffocating & odious pastures.

Sweetie,I can feel your pain even though I haven't experienced anything nearly so devastating to my ego, or so often. So even though you're little more than an occasional visitor to Thailand, some would say sex tourist, replacing your inflatable companions at home with living, breathing cut-rate ladyboys who you elevate to the status of "my boy friend," I'm sure it's frustrating when they keep leaving you.

When it comes to "perverted" and "fables," I couldn't hold a candle to you, pumpkin. Download some more porn and enjoy yourself, by yourself.

P.S.

Dodger,what your saying is that everyone on this board is living a perverted lifestyle.X was having sex with another man. Just because the other man is straight doesnt make it any more "perverted".


Thanks for that illumination on his name calling. I wasn't really sure what it was that made me especially perverted in Dodger's eyes. Hey, I'm queer. I like men. It's nice many of you think it doesn't make any difference whether a guy is straight or gay, but I generally find the straighter ones scratch my itch better than the gayer ones. Can't help it. Not going to try to change it. And, I sure don't think anyone who thinks otherwise is anymore perverted than me ... at least not based on their sexual preferences.

I guess we're all created Queer, but some of us are Queerer than others.

P.P.S

Incidentally, if it'll help further infuriate Dodgey with tales of my perversions... One reason I am now totally finished with doing the gogo bar crawl is because I finally found the perfect weekly home visitor to get me through those times when I am unable to practice my perversions on my LT friend due to his dehumanizing time spent at home with his family. My new home therapist is actually the stereotypical Muay Thai guy. Tattoos, muscles, abs, sexy squint. I do have a load of photos of him, but there's no chance in hell I'll share those and there's even less chance I'll divulge where he could be found, but (as the poster below says) several times aweek I am indeed a Muay Thai Smoker! I'm so ashamed of my perversion ... but I'm learning to live with it. [Neither photo is of him, but they give you a taste of what I taste and he does come close to the guy in action in red in the top picture]

http://www.dragonleg.com/images/smoker_may_07.jpg

http://nopadon.smugmug.com/photos/122075697-L.jpg

[catawampuscat]

Tolerance is difficult sometimes and especially when we are all
anonymous and misunderstandings are rife.
Many Western gay men look down on all of us, who love Thailand, as rice
queens and denegrate Asians as being undesirable and only for
losers who can't get white guys.
We are insulated on a forum like this but I can remember many men who looked down on men who
enjoyed Asians and Blacks for that matter as well..

As gay men who enjoy Asian men we do the same thing. Some of
us look down at men who like ladyboys/fem boys. Some of us look
down at those who like fatter boys or skinny boys or darker skinned
or lighter skinned. Some look down at those who like the muscle boys
and of course some look down at those who like straight boys over
gay boys.

It is all narrow minded thinking and unfortunately turns us against each
other. Many of us are locked into the mindset of our youth with roles,
racial views, and types fixed in our minds.
I find it unfortunate that X in Pattaya and Dodger have crossed swords
over the issue of sex with straight boys.

I believe the Thai boys, in the business, see it differently and are not locked into the set of beliefs drummed into us at an early age..
Sex is a wonderful thing and many of the boys call themselves 'straight or man' and have fem lady boyfriends and see no conflict in identifying as straight.
Some 'straight' boys are far better in bed than some gay boys and having
great sex is a skill shared by gay and non gay boys as is having lousy sex.

I don't care who you have sex with as long as it isn't the one I want and since
I steer away from the beauties, I rarely find other farangs with my own tastes.

One big lie, is that heterosexual men don't enjoy anal stimulation. Liberated
hetero men enjoy having their butthole played with as it is a senual erogonous zone. Free your minds and just realize that everyone has their own interests and as long as it isn't in the kindergarten, just allow that your tastes are not universal. Some boys just like sex with almost anyone and some don't. Of course it is all about money and money is power and it is all
about fun and having the time of your life if you don't get too bogged down
in all the shit.. :cat:

[Dodger]

Cat...

I can't disagree with any of the points you raise, and must admit that I've been a little off target lately.

X...

As tough as it is to admit, you have rasied some valid points as well.

My recent breakup with the boy (ladyboy) I referred to as my BF, has put me in a bit of a tail spin, which you have so accurately detected. One correction though: He didn't leave me - I left him, and the pasture he retreated to is not as green as the one he was forced to leave, and for that I will always be distressed. I drew a firm line with him regarding yaba, and he decided to cross it. My heart has been crushed in the process..not quite sure about me ego.

My apologies to you and anyone else I have offended by my comments on this post. I am certainly not an expert on this topic, nor any other topic related to Thailand, as I am constantly seeking to learn, and do so by making mistakes along the way.

mai pen rai

[x in pattaya]

Cat...

I can't disagree with any of the points you raise, and must admit that I've been a little off target lately.

X...

As tough as it is to admit, you have rasied some valid points as well.



My apologies to you and anyone else

mai pen rai


No problem. I fly off the handle when some things I see as important in defining me are challenged or mocked ... more easily depending on my mood of the moment. I generally regret it and it often comes as I spend too much time on the message boards, so itтАЩs undoubtedly a sign I need to walk away from the computer more often.

As I've tried to say... probably not too successfully ... we all have different tastes in terms of who we see as beautiful & appealing. Those differences shouldn't be a point of division.

Yes, there is probably something dehumanizing about the whole situation in which we all participate and which we may sometimes fail to see. I try to do whatever I can to make the guys feel good about themselves and to treat them as more than just a beautiful face with penis attached ... but I suppose sometimes that is difficult to do when you take someone off for a couple of hours with a limited, single objective.

My recent tour of local gogo bars trying to find someone who really got my pulse (among other things) pumping, was pretty much a stroll through the meat market. Although I nearly abandoned the effort, just as I was about to give up, I came across my Muay Thai type. He is truly beautiful on numerous levels ... but I admit he will never be more than a weekly visitor. I treat him well. I pay him well. He enjoys coming here because of the money and the night away from the bar. He is unequivocally a "man," but he performs the needful with an ease that suggests (as Cat said) that he is sexual and enjoys sex, even if he might enjoy it more with someone else.

He took me to see some of his friends in a sexy show тАж it was his idea, not mine. There was some nudity, some very brief fellatio, naked painted bodies writhing in black light followed by a shower togetherтАж

He seemed to think it was quite good and obviously didnтАЩt see it in terms of exploitation. I agreed with him when he asked me if I liked it, but I felt sad more than anything. Obviously the participants did it for the extra cash and felt uncomfortable. I suppose itтАЩs no more nor less dehumanizing than traipsing off to some strangerтАЩs hotel room for sex, but watching it and the collection of men & women watching it, I felt like I didnтАЩt want to visit anymore gogo bars for quite some time.

So in some respects you were right. Watching that show was like looking at myself in a mirror and being somewhat disgusted at what I saw and when I came home & read you message I was probably reacting as much to what I was thinking about myself as to what you were saying.

But he of the Muay Thai type called this afternoon and will visit this evening and my long term friend arrives this weekend. There are many reasons to feel in a good mood.

As Thais frequently say тАж at least to babbling farang тАж тАЬYou Tink Too Much!тАЭ
Too much тАЬtinkingтАЭ is always a mood killer.




And I'm not old and fat like X

And so the only reason you pay for sex is because basically you're a philanthropist?

[Dodger]

I think a person who has the ability to look at himself in the mirror has substance, regardless of his interpretation of the reflection.

[Wesley]

Hummmmm yes much think to much. I have to say that to my bf. Lucky me, just got back my 6 month HIV test and again am healthy and ready for another relationship instead of a line of boys. As to X he is not the asshole we think. He just has an abrasive way of putting things. Dodger and Smiles are still living in the puritan age of ethics. Something I have definitely over come but, am drawn to one guy invariably no matter how many guys I can have.

Wes

[Khor tose]

I think a person who has the ability to look at himself in the mirror has substance, regardless of his interpretation of the reflection.

I could not agree more. I know I need a reality jolt now and then. Being able to change your mind or atitude is a sign that you are not an old solidified fart. Hell the main reason I pick friends is to have someone who will tell me what I need to hear, and not what I want to hear. I enjoy post by both you and X, so please keep posting,

As an aside, this is why Pattaya Passion does not really reflect human reality. If we are all nice to each other, we will never learn a damn thing, as we will never be challenged in our assumptions.

[thrillbill]

Well Dodger,I agree with most of what you say BUT... What would become of all the straight boys if us gay men never offed them? The straight guy I took was very bored when I saw him,but was ecstatic to see me the next time I came to his bar.He gave me his phone number and invited me to his home town. Of course it was because I tip well,I gave him 2,000 baht the first time and 3,000 baht the last time. I know he didnt enjoy the sex but he enjoyed the money,the reason hes there. I know the next guy probably wont tip him as well as I did,and he will be disapointed and maybe leave the bar scene,but I feel I did the right thing by tipping him well. btw,I blew half a million baht renovating my studio there so tipping well for a boy who doesnt like anal sex was good in my book. I know mant will say Im ruining it for the rest by over tipping.Too bad,Im making up for the cheaoskates out there. I never deluded myself into thinking the boy was enamored with a fifty year old man.

I can't have good sex unless I know my play-companion is enjoying it also...not just for the money. If I have to pay way over the norm for someone to have sex with me, I would rather watch a porn movie and w/o. Maybe I am lucky but I have had commercial boys not even charge me. I don't want someone to be "estatic" just because I am a big tipper. (I'm not young either, but do take care of myself.)

[Impulse]

I dont usually pay way over the norm,I just felt sorry for this guy because it was his first time with a falang and I put him through some pain.Like I said,I prefer gay guys from the beer bars for long time,but having sex with a good looking straight guy was enjoyable. Change things up a bit.

[x in pattaya]

I can't have good sex unless I know my play-companion is enjoying it also...not just for the money. If I have to pay way over the norm for someone to have sex with me, I would rather watch a porn movie

And some of us derive most of our sexual pleasure by being able to find all the things that can drive our "play-companion" slowly, inexorably, relentlessly to a quivering, twitching, (nearly subvocal) moaning climax where tightened muscles, taut extended feet, clenched hands, rhythmically thrusting hips suddenly convulse as the glans swells and deep inside a muscle pumps spasmodically sending forth a hot stream of cream and every muscle then goes limp as endorphins flood his mind & bodyтАж a light glistening dew covers his face, his lips tremble almost imperceptibly, his penis continues to throb in sympathy with his pulse & the final contractions of his vas deferens muscle тАж his vision remains unfocused but as you look into his eyes they sparkle and a smirky twitch plays on his lips.

Never happens the first couple of times, but the potential is usually recognizable and worth rewarding. A large tip wonтАЩt turn a ukulele into a Stradivarius, but once you get your hands on the Stradi, you wonтАЩt want to pluck anything else.

[Bob]

Pornigraphically pleasing, Khun X. That sounds better than it usually feels! :geek:

[x in pattaya]

Pornigraphically pleasing, Khun X. That sounds better than it usually feels! :geek:


If you spend a lot of time plucking you learn how to strike a chord pianissimo so that it resonates sforzando and produces a crescendo that requires some mopping up. Protective eyewear is recommended.

Unfortunately a lot of the pluckers on this board just produce a discordant twang due to poor fingering skills and a lamentably limp legato.

As a home work assignment I suggest you bone up on your energetic embouchure and try orchestrating your performance in synchrony with the Ouverture Solennelle, L'Ann├йe 1812, Op. 49. A word of warning: there are a total of 16 cannon shot near the conclusion. Tchaikovsky was nothing if not an optimist.

[Bob]

As the Chiangmai maestro will arrive in Whore Hin this coming Sunday, practice has been deferred; however, that delay doesn't prevent some embouchure study, I suppose, in the interim. Perhaps I may emulate/imitate Callet. His method of embouchure is described on one site (yes, I'm lifting/stealing a passage) that it:

consists of the tongue remaining forward and through the teeth at all times. The corners of the mouth always remain relaxed, and only a small amount of air is used. The top and bottom lips curl inward and grip the forward tongue. The tongue will force the teeth, and subsequently the throat, wide open, supposedly resulting in a bigger, more open sound. The forward tongue resists the pressure of the mouthpiece, controls the flow of air for lower and higher notes, and protects the lips and teeth from damage or injury from mouthpiece pressure. Because of the importance of the tongue in this method many refer to this as a "tongue-controlled embouchure." This technique facilitates the use of a smaller mouthpiece, and larger bore instruments. It results in improved intonation and stronger harmonically related partials across the player's range.

Hey, sounds interesting in any event. I shall not report my findings.

[x in pattaya]

consists of the tongue remaining forward and through the teeth at all times. The corners of the mouth always remain relaxed, and only a small amount of air is used. The top and bottom lips curl inward and grip the forward tongue. The tongue will force the teeth, and subsequently the throat, wide open, supposedly resulting in a bigger, more open sound. The forward tongue resists the pressure of the mouthpiece, controls the flow of air for lower and higher notes, and protects the lips and teeth from damage or injury from mouthpiece pressure. Because of the importance of the tongue in this method many refer to this as a "tongue-controlled embouchure." This technique facilitates the use of a smaller mouthpiece, and larger bore instruments. It results in improved intonation and stronger harmonically related partials across the player's range.




Sounds like a word for word description of what I did last night. Twice.

[Chuai-Duai]

A couple of things occur to me reading through these posts, both the reasoned and the hysterical.

My question must reflect my own experiences, I had a boyfriend in my teens but a girlfriend for a while after that. I don't regard myself as bisexual and would certainly describe myself as gay now and have only had boyfriends since I started visiting Thailand which is around 20 years ago. But I do regard such definitions as "gay" and "straight" as a bit flexible.

The other thing that I now wonder might be the result a some naively on my part. The actively that seems to most polarizes this debate is anal sex. I will top or bottom, depending on the guy I'm with, with no particular preference (or enthusiasm to be honest). But I don't do either at all when I'm in Thailand. I'm likely to be with a sex worker and safe sex is my number one priority.

So the guys I "off" whether they or I regard them as gay or straight are never required to top or bottom so I'm never going to know their possible reaction. Perhaps that's why I've never found their sexuality to be of very much importance.

[x in pattaya]

So the guys I "off" whether they or I regard them as gay or straight are never required to top or bottom so I'm never going to know their possible reaction. Perhaps that's why I've never found their sexuality to be of very much importance.

So what do you do, play scrabble?
I don't do anything anal either... because my interests lie elsewhere ... but that doesn't diminsh the potential significance of their sexuality.


A couple of things occur to me reading through these posts, both the reasoned and the hysterical.

Is it the posts that are reasoned & hysterical or the things that occur to you? If it's the former, I think my feelings might be hurt... but probably not.

[Chuai-Duai]

So what do you do, play scrabble?
I don't do anything anal either... because my interests lie elsewhere ... but that doesn't diminsh the potential significance of their sexuality.

I've never played Scrabble in my life, I'll bear it in mind for my next trip.

I think the lack of anal activity does diminish the potential significance of their sexuality as it's the one activity that divides gay and straight more than any other. Particularly in Thailand where some guys will "top" and see themselves as straight but would regard "bottoming" as gay. As I see the dividing line as fluid anyway it's just not that important for me but could well be for others.

[x in pattaya]

I think the lack of anal activity does diminish the potential significance of their sexuality ...

I was thinking more in terms of how attractive I would find them.


As I see the dividing line as fluid anyway it's just not that important for me but could well be for others.

Very true. But there are so many things that make someone more or less attractive to an invidual ... physical features, personality, mannerisms, etc. Some people seem to freak out about tattoos or body hair or cheerfulness or spiky hair or muscle development, etc. Each of us has a few things that are very important and other things that are less so. No problem with that. What is irksome is that some people assume that what is important to them MUST be important to all right-thinking people.

On CFS there is a contingent that moans & gnashes their collective teeth about boys with tattoos as if they shouldn't be working in any bar. I don't particularly care about tattoos and sometimes can find them a turn-on.

On the other hand a whole lot of people here say they don't care about the sexuality of the boys and imply that if it does matter to you, then there's something wrong with you..."you" meaning whoever they're targeting at the moment .

Of course, some people still react with shock & horror when they realize that not all the boys in the bars are gay and assume if you end up with a straight guy neither of you can possibly enjoy yourselves ... because they can't get their teeny weeny minds around the idea that everyone in world doesn't want the exact same thing that they want.

Ah well. I'll keep beating my drums and being irksome too. It's a talent and I don't want to waste it.

I post there as Nalong also; here I used to post as X in Pattaya but decided to keep my posting names consistent.

Your posts used to be decidedly more "stimulating." Have you been ill?




And some of us derive most of our sexual pleasure by being able to find all the things that can drive our "play-companion" slowly, inexorably, relentlessly to a quivering, twitching, (nearly subvocal) moaning climax where tightened muscles, taut extended feet, clenched hands, rhythmically thrusting hips suddenly convulse as the glans swells and deep inside a muscle pumps spasmodically sending forth a hot stream of cream and every muscle then goes limp as endorphins flood his mind & bodyтАж a light glistening dew covers his face, his lips tremble almost imperceptibly, his penis continues to throb in sympathy with his pulse & the final contractions of his vas deferens muscle тАж his vision remains unfocused but as you look into his eyes they sparkle and a smirky twitch plays on his lips.

Never happens the first couple of times, but the potential is usually recognizable and worth rewarding. A large tip wonтАЩt turn a ukulele into a Stradivarius, but once you get your hands on the Stradi, you wonтАЩt want to pluck anything else.