Thai anyone?

Hi yo,

I'm just curious as to how many of you world travelers, ex-pats (and sex-pats) living there in LOS, or there for extended stays, make serious efforts to really learn the language. I'm talking to seriously comprehend and communicate day to day with average Thais and not just score dates or off a bar boy. :tongue:

Currently I'm in my advanced Thai language certification class taught at Wat Thai here in DC. My plan is to be skilled enough with speaking, writing and comprehending Thai that it gives me a marketable advantage in the job force there as well as the ability to communicate with the locals easier.

My question is how many of you seriously try to learn Thai and what methods do you go about doing so. Taught by your faen? Going to language schools? Learning on your own with books or CD's? Again I am just curious - your thoughts?

р╕Вр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Д р╕▒р╕Ъ
р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

Learning Thai to make you more marketable in the Thai market is a waste of time. The Thai government only allows farang to fill certain jobs that they deem a Thai person unable to to do at the same level as a farang.

Learning Thai in general to help your life go a bit smoother here in Thailand is a good thing and a bad thing. Many Thais don't want farang to be able to speak Thai. I speak enough Thai to get by and I understand a bit more than that. When Thai people around me know that I can understand them, they often times will switch to speaking in Lao or Khmer.

It seems many Thai people want us to be like the Thai government wants them to be, blissfully uneducated and willing to do what we are told to do.

ajarntrade

[adman5000]

I enjoy allowing the Thai people teach me their language and approach it as a fun social process. Most Thai's will enjoy helping you. For me, being a serious student by reading books, listening to CD's, or taking lessons is not an enjoyable way to learn the language. I prefer to chat with a street vendor, talk to people on the bus, talk to service people, chat with the monks, and let them teach me the language and culture as I encounter the need for it. I have supplemented that with some minimal structured learning to know consonants, vowels, tones, rules, etc but just enough to organize what I learn through interaction.

A person's view on this will differ depending on their motivation. My motivation is to enjoy and have fun with the Thai people and to view it as a cumulative learning experience (language, culture, etc). I find myself happier with this approach rather than try to approach Thailand with a Western cookie-cutter attitude.

If I wanted to gain a marketable advantage, I think it is better to leverage what the Thai people don't know than to try to speak Thai like a Bangkok Thai.

I have no aptitude for languages and have struggled with a variety of different Thai courses on CD etc.

Unfortunately my Thai boyfriend is hopeless at teaching me and I don't really improve much. Actually I speak "words" rather than "language".

For example my boyfriend has a blood test ever three weeks and the result is important. He's never mastered the English for "blood" but all I have to say is "leuart" (Thai for blood) and he knows what I'm on about and will give me the result.

So we can communicate and understand each other in our mix of English and Thai. But it's no use when trying to talk to anyone else, not that asking people's blood test results is something I'd really want to do very often anyway, but you get the idea.

I can meet and greet and discuss the weather and understand a certain amount but have rather given up on the CDs. I've never had any lessons from a trained teacher and I suspect that's what I need if I'm ever to improve.

My boyfriend is, frankly, rather gullible and believes all the claims on language courses sold in the Bangkok bookshops like "Asia Books". So after he'd bought me "English -Thai" "the fun way to learn the language" "includes 3 CDs". He would call me to see if it had worked yet.

Sadly my competence stayed at much the same level.

I do take some comfort though that I get complimented on my use of tones but also frustrated that some Thais seem to have no trouble understanding me when the next one will just stare in puzzlement.

I enjoy it when my boyfriend calls me at work as I can usually cope with the whole conversation in Thai and I love the looks on my workmate's faces and the fact that they haven't the faintest idea what I'm saying.

Learning Thai to make you more marketable in the Thai market is a waste of time. The Thai government only allows farang to fill certain jobs that they deem a Thai person unable to to do at the same level as a farang.


That's unduly pessimistic don't you think? You don't know what jobs I am looking to find NOR if it's truly a waste of time or not. Knowing the language is definitely an advantage in any sense if you choose to live in the country or even if you just have a love of learning IMHO.

р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щ� �╣Др╕г р╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Кр╕Щр╕┤р╕� �р╕кр╕Ър╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Ър╕� ��р╕в...

р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

Yes, that is way over-the-top pessimistic -- if not downright wrong. There are only a handful of professions that are off-limits to foreigners, including such attractive ones as farmer and basket-maker.

There are tens of thousands of expats working legally in Thailand, and knowing the language definitely does make you more marketable.

I enjoy allowing the Thai people teach me their language and approach it as a fun social process. Most Thai's will enjoy helping you. For me, being a serious student by reading books, listening to CD's, or taking lessons is not an enjoyable way to learn the language. I prefer to chat with a street vendor, talk to people on the bus, talk to service people, chat with the monks, and let them teach me the language and culture as I encounter the need for it. I have supplemented that with some minimal structured learning to know consonants, vowels, tones, rules, etc but just enough to organize what I learn through interaction.

A person's view on this will differ depending on their motivation. My motivation is to enjoy and have fun with the Thai people and to view it as a cumulative learning experience (language, culture, etc). I find myself happier with this approach rather than try to approach Thailand with a Western cookie-cutter attitude.

If I wanted to gain a marketable advantage, I think it is better to leverage what the Thai people don't know than to try to speak Thai like a Bangkok Thai.

Of course, different strokes for different folks has always been the name of the game. By the way I would hardly rest my resume on the fact that I can speak Thai. That would always be just an additional bonus to what I can bring to the table no matter what job I choose to pursue. р╣Гр╕Кр╣Ир╣Др╕лр╕б?

р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

[anakot]

"Some resources I have used and could be useful

1. CD - Learning Thai Script - Produced by the Multimedia Interactive Learning Lab at Australian National Uni.
I have found this to be very good when learning all the consonants and vowels. There are some great interactive tests and a focus on commonly confused characters to help you to distinguish them like some of the 'tor' consonants р╕Ц р╕Ш and р╕Р

2. CD - Talk Now - Study Thai Language Produced by Eurotalk
A useful extra CD.

3. CD - Pim р╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М 2001 - This is a typing program so you can learn to type in Thai. A bit of fun for the adventurous.

4. Book Thai for Intermediate Learners by Benjawan Poomsan Becker

5. Book Thai for Advanced Readers by B Becker as above
I have found both these books really great. The Advanced Reader comes with a beautiful clear largish Thai font, a written translation and CD's so you can listen to the pieces when you are out and about with your MP3

There are tons of other things I have used over the years but these are some resources you could use to familiarise yourself. The CD's are available at Pantip and the books in any Bookazine.

If you get carried away and want to type you can get colour matching stickers for your keyboard keys for each combined English/Thai character and it is easy to switch between Thai and English. "

I posted above reply to similar thread in Feb 08 which you could track down using 'search' or click on this link
learning-thai-t13888.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/learning-thai-t13888.html)

I also spent a couple of months going to Nisa Language School, Soi Yenakart, Lumphini in '01 which was a useful grounding.

Learning the lingo is definitely a great thing to do and best of luck in this worthy project.

[RichLB]

Most of us who live here can speak some Thai, if only to say hello and thank you. But I think many have been scared off by the tones and their experience trying to learn other languages and not made a serious effort to progress. My view is that Thai is the easiest language in the world if your goal is to communicate and not to impress others with your fluency. After initial confusion, Thais will understand that you are butchering the tones and will figure out what you are saying from context. Unfortunately, some Thais never do understand me, but enough do so I can now carry on conversations with just about everyone. Oddly, the folks that are most critical of my spoken Thai are other farang and I keep my mouth shut concerning my view of their skills.

As to how I learned, I started out memorizing that phrase list that used to be posted on the old Gaybutton site. It contained many errors and those mistakes actually helped by my being corrected and getting better when I was. I also went to the Wat out in the San Fernando Valley, but found the classes there not particularly helpful. Books and CDs (except for "Thais for Lovers") usually just confused me and made me want to give up. (Why or why can't they have a consistent aliteration device - it takes more effort to figure out each authors particular system than it does to learn Thai). So my "learning" has been accomplished through talking to as many Thais as I can. Little by little my vocabulary progressed - I think I'm now at a 10 year old's level. I keep reminding myself my goal is to communicate and not to "speak Thai". I make tons of mistakes and each time I'm corrected my Thai gets better.

I keep emphasizing that Thai is a remarkably easy language. There are no real tenses, no conjugation of verbs, a huge number of words are just other words combined. very limited use of the verb "to be", etc. You, of course, already know this, but for those who have yet to begin speaking Thai, I encourage you to start. Just say what you are able to say and gradually (actually rather quickly) you will find yourself having real conversations all in Thai.

[francois]

Learning Thai to make you more marketable in the Thai market is a waste of time. The Thai government only allows farang to fill certain jobs that they deem a Thai person unable to to do at the same level as a farang.

That's unduly pessimistic don't you think? You don't know what jobs I am looking to find NOR if it's truly a waste of time or not. Knowing the language is definitely an advantage in any sense if you choose to live in the country or even if you just have a love of learning IMHO.

Wit; Why do you bother asking for people's opinions when you know all the answers even though you have never been to Thailand? All Thai talk and no action.

I have no aptitude for languages and have struggled with a variety of different Thai courses on CD etc.

Unfortunately my Thai boyfriend is hopeless at teaching me and I don't really improve much. Actually I speak "words" rather than "language".

I don't think anyone can argue that Thai is a difficult, if not one of THE most difficult, language to learn other than Russian, Chinese or English (for non-English speakers.) It's even more true for those of us *ahem* 'older gents' trying to tackle learning a second language later in life and having to un-do many habits of thinking and speaking in the process.


My boyfriend is, frankly, rather gullible and believes all the claims on language courses sold in the Bangkok bookshops like "Asia Books". So after he'd bought me "English -Thai" "the fun way to learn the language" "includes 3 CDs". He would call me to see if it had worked yet.

Sadly my competence stayed at much the same level.

I think it is also true that not everyone learns in the same manner with the same techniques otherwise there would be only one real tried and true way needed that would guarantee success. Six years ago I met the love of my life (insert dramatic movie music here) here in DC. He was Thai-Lao and several times he tried to teach me some basic Thai words but each time it failed miserably.

Why? Namely because my pride and lack of confidence got in the way. I was too embarrassed to stumble and fail over and over at trying to pronounce some of the simplest words or phrases and I was too stubborn to just swallow my pride and deal with it.

I'm not saying that is the case with you, only that it was the case with me in the beginning. Eventually he gave up and after we were forced to break up (he was in the military back then) I slowly began trying to learn on my own. At first I bought every book I could get my hands on, some of them really lousy in fact, but I bought better ones later on.

I suggest getting the 'Thai for Beginners' series by Benjawan Poosan Becker, the best and most consistent series to help you get started. I also immersed my way into Thai by another passion of mine - music. I have bought, I dunno somewhere around 300 Thai music CD's and VCD's from Thailand and all kinds of music too from Lakorn country music to Thai rock, T-Pop and Indie music.

I listened to those CD's constantly until I wore out two different Sony Walkmans' and now I have many of my favorite songs on MP3 format in my new MP3 player including some podcast lessons in Thai. It was great because I not only immersed myself into the language listening to it's rhythms and patterns but I discovered some really cool music to listen to too.

In the end I believe it helped me to learn to speak more effectively although I still mess up on the tones a good bit. That's what I am learning in my advanced classes now, how to speak in the proper tones and knowing what they are when reading or trying to comprehend Thai. It's still hard and I still stumble a lot but at least I pick myself up when I fail, usually laugh it off then try, try again. I'd like to think my ex (wherever he may be) would be proud of the progress I've made to date.

What I'm trying to say, whether it's cliche` or not is that anyone can learn if they truly want to. It just takes the grit and sacrifice to give up what you have to get there. So it's true with everything in life I believe even if giving up certain comforts of living in the West for things more meaningful and better (not just the bar boys mind you) in the long run.

But that's enough about me for now..

р╣Вр╕Кр╕Др╕Фр╕╡
р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

Wit; Why do you bother asking for people's opinions when you know all the answers even though you have never been to Thailand? All Thai talk and no action.

Because this IS a discussion board is it not? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the Soi this morning, n'est-ce pas ? :sunny:

р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

3. CD - Pim р╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М 2001 - This is a typing program so you can learn to type in Thai. A bit of fun for the adventurous.



This sounds interesting. Currently I'm locked out of typing Thai on my desktop. Not that I don't know how to set it up on Windows XP but it's missing something in the file for the program. As it is I use my Thai notes on my desktop to 'cut and paste' in Thai *gasp* .. my secrets revealed! 555+

р╕Ьр╕бр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕й р╕▓р╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Ър╕Щр╕Д р╕нр╕бр╕Юр╕┤р╕зр╣Ар╕Х р╕нр╕гр╣Мр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Д� �╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Др╕▒р╕Фр╕е р╕нр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕зр╕▓р╕� �р╣Др╕Фр╣Й

р╕кр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╕┤р╕ар╕� ��р╕Ю !
р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

Speaking Thai has huge advantages, both in business and personal life. When I was employed here before retiring, I was able to communicate effectively with Thai staff, both junior and senior, and I've made many good friends and useful contacts as a result. Some offices I've worked in had several farang employees, but few bothered to make a serious effort to learn Thai.

Thinking the Thai language is difficult to learn is a fallacy. The tones will always be a problem for most westerners, but context makes it clear if you get the tone wrong. And the alphabet is not as hard as it seems. Once grasped, it speeds up your ability to read, write and pronounce the language correctly.


Thanks fattman, that pretty much sums up my point and you're right most of it is relatively simple but it's mastering the tones that are the real butt kickers. :blackeye:

р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

[Smiles]

On the language level of random problematics**, having a Thai partner long term is the worst thing that can happen: it's a deadly juxtaposition having a Thai man in the house who can speak very decent english and can extricate one from every conceivable language-based sticky situation ... AND you/yourself being a congenital lazy fuck who'd, deep down, would rather 'just not bother'.

If His Royal Highness ever tosses me to the curb, I guess I'll have to make an attempt to learn Thai. I probably will anyway ('attempt' that is), but I won't like it, "at my age".

Cheers ...

** Trip over that one! A perfect example of why I should NEVER try to lean another language :king:

[RichLB]

"I don't think anyone can argue that Thai is a difficult, if not one of THE most difficult, language to learn other than Russian, Chinese or English (for non-English speakers.) "

Wit, you made the above comment up above. I beg to differ. As I said before, I find quite the opposite. Thai is a simplistic language with few of the complications found in Western Romance languages. Don't let yourself believe it is difficult, that will only slow you down and give you permission to resort to English when meeting bilingual Thais. Sure the tones are tough, but while they make it easier for Thais to understand you, context will carry you through when you get them wrong. Just like anyone visiting a foreign land you will pick them up without realizing it. For example, how many Americans have you met who have spent some time in England and return to the states with a British accent. It happens naturally.

I also disagree with those who argue it is not necessary or fruitful for you to bother learning Thai. I don't know about it being functional for employment opportunities, but it sure is for every day life. in addition to just adding enormous fun, it also makes it possible to ask a store clerk where the butter is located, find out when the UBC dish will be installed, how to get your computer fixed, etc. Keep on learning.

A useful site you may not have discovered is www.thai-language.com (http://www.thai-language.com). Check it out. It will speed up the growth of your vocabulary.

I agree with the above poster: Thai is not a difficult language to learn, by any stretch. Grammar couldn't be easier, there is an alphabet (as opposed to Chinese), and there are few exceptions to the few rules (as opposed to English, where there are many exceptions to the many rules). The tones are the only major challenge to speakers of non-tonal languages.

[francois]

Wit; Why do you bother asking for people's opinions when you know all the answers even though you have never been to Thailand? All Thai talk and no action.
Because this IS a discussion board is it not? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the Soi this morning, n'est-ce pas ?
р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

I always wake up on the wrong side of the bed when I am not in Thailand with the bf. My suggestion for learning Thai is to get in the right side of the bed with a Thai boy and forget all that book learning at some Wat in the USA. But yes, a discussion board, it is.

If you want to talk like an uneducated barboy, take Francois' advice. If you want to speak correctly, continue with your lessons.

[catawampuscat]

In language schools, in tapes, CDs etc., one learns formal Thai..
I suppose for someone who intends to work in a formal business
atmosphere, it makes sense but for the vast majority of conversations,
slang is far more important.
Pronouncing the letter r after a hard k sounds stiff, as in the word krup.
Males use the word krup, hundreds of times a day and almost all drop the letter r and say kup.
Formally, the "r" sound should be said but in practice
it is rarely heard and that includes on TV, news shows etc.
Many words drop the "r" and there are many other examples of the actual language being quite different than what is taught in school.

Btw, Thailand is suffering economic hard times like the rest of the world, and anyone thinking about employment opportunities being enhanced by some
knowledge of the language are in for a surprise as even well educated Thais
are experiencing employment difficulties.
Ford Motors is moving their Asian headquarters to China and unless one already has secured employment from a foreign company and is transferring to Thailand, it is a real long shot to expect employment except as a foreign language (English) teacher at a relatively low salary.

I encourage all to learn some Thai as it helps one appreciate, when Thais
struggle with English and perhaps not get upset when some Thai makes
an error due to a language misunderstanding and not expect the whole world to speak English as a matter of fact.

I find Wit somewhat rude using the Thai font and not explaining what he
is writing. It shows some arrogance and comes across as haughty. I agree
with francois and not just because he is bon ami. Wit is using Thai letters
at the end of his postings which spell out wit.
For the vast majority of us, learning how to talk to the boys in the slang
and general use Thai language is far more important than learning formal
Thai for use at cocktail parties in the embassy, imho. :cat:

[anakot]

3. CD - Pim р╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М 2001 - This is a typing program so you can learn to type in Thai. A bit of fun for the adventurous.



This sounds interesting. Currently I'm locked out of typing Thai on my desktop. Not that I don't know how to set it up on Windows XP but it's missing something in the file for the program. As it is I use my Thai notes on my desktop to 'cut and paste' in Thai *gasp* .. my secrets revealed! 555+

р╕Ьр╕бр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕й р╕▓р╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Ър╕Щр╕Д р╕нр╕бр╕Юр╕┤р╕зр╣Ар╕Х р╕нр╕гр╣Мр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Д� �╕Фр╣Й р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕Др╕▒р╕Фр╕е р╕нр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕зр╕▓р╕� �р╣Др╕Фр╣Й

р╕кр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╕┤р╕ар╕� ��р╕Ю !
р╕зр╕┤р╕Чр╕вр╣М

Its a matter of enabling Thai Language keyboard which you can do in the Control Panel then you can type in Thai or using a short cut come back to English. Try Help and it may help...

And yes absolutely it is worth learning. AND it is not the most difficult. For a start you have a set number of consonants and vowels under a hundred all up. The 5 tones are also relatively easy to get used to over time and I mean years. But just start... Well you have.

As I am now learning a Chinese langugage (not Mandarin) its is 10 times harder. More tones than Thai and of course the written script characters run into the 10's of thousands!

Anyway I did the typing for fun and also to be able to produce 'flash cards' and other stuff in typed Thai that looked good instead of my Thai scrawl. There are quite a lot of Learn to Type programs available but for me it was just fun...

I find Wit somewhat rude using the Thai font and not explaining what he
is writing. It shows some arrogance and comes across as haughty. I agree
with francois and not just because he is bon ami. Wit is using Thai letters
at the end of his postings which spell out wit.
For the vast majority of us, learning how to talk to the boys in the slang
and general use Thai language is far more important than learning formal
Thai for use at cocktail parties in the embassy, imho. :cat:

Hm, I was not aware that some of you were put off by my inserting Thai characters and words into my posts. I was not trying to be rude or haughty but having a tad bit of fun since I can do it and I know what the words mean. I suppose too I admit I was being a bit of a show off but it looked cool with the Thai added. Would everyone prefer to see me not include the Thai at all or, if I post, then at least add the meaning and explanation as well?


As for writing Thai on this forum, for me, I think its inappropriate as most here can't read Thai.

I wonder if any of our non-Thai speakers can guess the meaning of this slang expression: Rot Fai Shongun (Trains colliding)? It might be useful to know.

I'm not sure I agree it is inappropriate unless I am saying something in Thai about someone else that would be understood by those on here that can read Thai but not by everyone else. That would be very inappropriate and rude IMO.

As for the expression Rot Fai Shongun (р╕гр╕Цр╣Др╕Яр╕Кр╕Щр╕Б р╕▒р╕Щ) I believe I read somewhere this is what happens when you have two (or more) Thai boyfriends unbeknown to each other and they both show up at the same place at the same time. :pale:

And so it goes..

Wit

Its a matter of enabling Thai Language keyboard which you can do in the Control Panel then you can type in Thai or using a short cut come back to English. Try Help and it may help...

That's not the problem. I know HOW to do it but I'm seriously missing something in the DLL or files needed to make it work and, like most people, I don't have the OS disk since my system was set up by a friend off a pirated copy - who buys software these days? I have a screen shot but not sure how to insert images into my post - too off topic? Not sure..


Wit

[IEB2004-old]

Sawadee Krap Kun Wit and other form members,

It is always good to read about other people learning Thai. I suppose I started learning before my first visit to Thailand a number of years ago from CD's, etc. and had both successes and failures. Since then I have had one on one classes with a teacher when I am in Krungtep.

For me a class involves 20 to 30 minutes or longer reporting back to my teacher on the previous day's adventures in Passa Thai. That is followed by learning some vocab and grammar followed by reading and writing in Thai. Although I have many Thai language books and dip into them on occasion, especially for grammar and reading, I work from the vocabulary I have compiled as my learning has progressed. Since beginning to learn to read Thai my vocabulary lists are in English / Passa Thai/ and Passa Karoke (transliteration). Learning the vocabulary in Passa Thai makes it much easier for me to pronounce, and it helps to have a good ear to get the tones right.

I find learning Thai a fun experience, a holiday in itself. I try to reinforce the Thai I am learning by using it in my conversations. It surprises many Thai that I can speak their language and I am often asked how many years I've lived and worked in Thailand. They find it hard to believe that I am only a visitor and have never lived or worked there.

I think it is good that people write in Thai here, but it would be helpful for many to put the Passa Karoke and or English beside it.

Ger gan ti Muang Thai / See you in Thailand

[francois]

[
Hm, I was not aware that some of you were put off by my inserting Thai characters and words into my posts. I was not trying to be rude or haughty but having a tad bit of fun since I can do it and I know what the words mean. I suppose too I admit I was being a bit of a show off but it looked cool with the Thai added. Would everyone prefer to see me not include the Thai at all or, if I post, then at least add the meaning and explanation as well?
Wit

Not sure if you are showing off or looking cool, but I am impressed. I admire anyone who attempts to learn and speaks even a little of Thai. For those who go to the effort exhibited by Wit, I say BRAVO to you. Learning another language is a difficult endeavor requiring patience and hard work. I know.
All the same, my previous comment of "getting in bed with a Thai boy" meant to apply your classroom learning to the bedroom. No doubt he could teach you a few things never taught at the Wat in DC. You know, all school and no play makes Jacques a dull boy.

Wit has previously (TingTong?) referenced study of Thai language and culture but, has he yet visited Thailand and practiced his lessons? Field trips are always the fun part of learning.


р╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Хр╕Йр╕▒р╕� �р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕� �р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╣� �р╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Фр╣Ар╕Юр╕� �р╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕ Щр╕╕р╕Бр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др� �Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар� �Чр╕ир╣Др╕Чр╕вр╣Др╕бр╣ Ир╕Щр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕ лр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕ вр╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕нр╣Ар╕бр╕� �р╕┤р╕Бр╕▓.

Ger gan ti Muang Thai / See you in Thailand

Surely you would mean 'jer gan tii meuang thai' р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Ч р╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕� �р╣Др╕Чр╕в ?

[pong]

other as many here, i tend to agree with ajarntrade-his observations, but that does not mean you should not learn Thai. The tones are not the hardest for me-in fact i think hats grossly overstressed-there are just a few words that change meaning with another tone and if you use them in sentences it will be clear mostly (wat is both temple and have a cold- not that easily confused. I think for those who grew up in english (not me) simply a lot of Thai sounds do not appear and have to be learnt separately-and thats harder the older you get. My own dear always wants us to speak english-and from me expects him to tell him whats wrong in his and how that should be. The most dificult part for me is to actually understand the spoken Thai from unknown people-thats quite different from the overly formal you hear on TV/news etc. I can more or less understand-mostly-what they talk about- but the details not. And I dont mind at all written Thai here-its fun, it often helps to clairify things and other post are maybe also not clear to anyone.
For those who want some more; try the relevant forum of he Paknam fora-accessible via thailandqa.com,
Last week ni KUL/Malaysia I saw a splendid book- outrageous Thai- slang, cursing, etc. for there 50MYR=475 bt. Amazon sells it for 11 US$-plus much more for sending it over. have nver seen it here in BKK-and asked around, also at 2nd hand shops-just blank stares and ''never seen''.
Oh and BTW; the most easy to learn is bahasa Indonesia-for the area around here-that an be done in half a day-nice chocolate boys there too.

[catawampuscat]

good explanation wit and no harm done. I can speak and understand a little Thai after many months of intensive Thai lessons in BKK. 3-4 hours
a day for a month and then the next monthly seminar begins. I learned to read and write but unless you practice and stick with it, one begins to lose it and now it is a struggle but I believe I could relearn it all very quickly if motivated.

What really gets up my nose, are farangs who claim to speak Thai and then
proceed to butcher the language and speak so badly that only their regular
boy has a chance of understanding their extremely poor Thai.
It may sound ok to one who doesn't understand a word but using one of these fools to communicate with your new boy is worse than doing nothing. Farangs that speak and understand Thai at a reasonable level are rare but even understanding just a bit and communicating is appreciated by the boys.
Don't expect to be able to follow conversations and be understood by those who aren't used to farangs speaking Thai.
Still, well worth the time and effort but like exercising or dieting, you get out of it what you put into it and much time and effort is
required to reach even a minimal level but as already stated, well worth the effort.. :cat:

[x in pattaya]

I must say that I totally disagree with ajarntrade. Am I right in thinking that he mostly has been involved in the world of teaching English?? (I have no idea of course).

Speaking Thai has huge advantages ... my interaction with neighbours, shop keepers, boys in bars etc etc effortless.

My Thai is still at the novice level, but I agree that dealing with people in the market and getting a massage or talking to a bar boy is more pleasant if you can interject a little Thai in the conversation and respond to some basic things said by them. I know most people in places like Pattaya can speak a little English, but certainly not all and if you get out of the touristy areas that percentage drops.

In my recent whirl of visiting gogo bars, which is probably going to drop off in a week or so, I've encountered several boys who were just recently recruited and have been in Pattaya no more than a few months. Their English was very limited and this guy I took off from Cartier and will be seeing again has basically no English. I can't carry on a casual conversation with him (although he seems to think he can chatter away ), but I have been able to communicate some basic things to him and tonight, miracle or miracles, I called him to tell him I would be at the bar around 9:00 to off him and he understood me.

You can get by without Thai, but it enhances your interaction with people. I certainly plan to try to improve my speaking & comprehension skills in Thai, though as someone else suggested, now that I've celebrated several 39th birthdays, it ain't easy.

[IEB2004-old]

dave syd - р╣Гр╕Ир╣Ар╕вр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ж (jai yen yen/ heart cool, cool, or cool your heart) 555

One of the first things people learn about Thai is that there is no agreed transliteration, so who is right and who is wrong р╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ж (jing jing/ really). My Thai friends text, etc. in Passa Karoke (transliterated Thai) even to each other and the spelling varies р╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕Б р╕▒р╕Щр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕б р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Щ р╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (meuan gan dtae mai meuan gan / the same but not the same). So as the old saying goes р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕бр╕� �р╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕� ��р╣Ир╕з р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕┤ р╣Ир╕зр╕Хр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕� � (kao meuang dtaa liw dtong liw dtaa dtaam / When in the country of the squint eyes, squint your eyes, or When in Rome...).

р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (jer gan /see you)
р╕Мр╕нр╕Щ

dave syd - р╣Гр╕Ир╣Ар╕вр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ж (jai yen yen/ heart cool, cool, or cool your heart) 555

One of the first things people learn about Thai is that there is no agreed transliteration, so who is right and who is wrong р╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ж (jing jing/ really). My Thai friends text, etc. in Passa Karoke (transliterated Thai) even to each other and the spelling varies р╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕Б р╕▒р╕Щр╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Др╕б р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Щ р╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (meuan gan dtae mai meuan gan / the same but not the same). So as the old saying goes р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕бр╕� �р╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕лр╕ер╕� ��р╣Ир╕з р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕┤ р╣Ир╕зр╕Хр╕▓р╕Хр╕▓р╕� � (kao meuang dtaa liw dtong liw dtaa dtaam / When in the country of the squint eyes, squint your eyes, or When in Rome...).

р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (jer gan /see you)
р╕Мр╕нр╕Щ

agree 100% about the lack of a consistent system of romanisation. some schools teach thai script from the start rather than waste time with romanisation systems (every Thai language book seems to develop their own system).
this was a good example of the problem with some of the systems - using 'ua' for р╣Ар╕╖р╕н, I assume they would also used 'ua' for р╕▒р╕з so how can u differentiate between the two. then u get into the problem of how to differentiate between the long and short forms of each vowel. but I have never see р╕И represented with a 'g', usually a 'j' or sometimes a 'ch'.

[x in pattaya]

This discussion about transliteration only serves to highlight the whole reason for mastering the Thai alphabet as early as possible. No amount of transliteration will give you the correct pronounciation. IMHO, the main purpose of transliteration is for the English language version of street signs, government department names etc.


And with transliteration you end up with things like Taksin Shinawatra, Singha beer and Surawongse Rd.

[IEB2004-old]

Wadee kun dave syd,

Dave excuse me for my poor transliteration of р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (jer gan / see you) and thanks for your reply and that of Kun Fattman and Kun X in Pattaya. I actually have my own consonant and vowel charts which I use to help me learn Thai. I put them together because I wasnтАЩt happy with anything I found in books, etc. Normally, I would write тАШjer ganтАЩ, but sometimes I am lazy and just keep going and thus the strange transliteration at times. Anyone learning a language knows you must jump in and start talking or in this case writing.

The often used р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (jer gan / see you) is one that gives me trouble. Why not je-gan, because as you can see there is no р╕г
(raw rua/ R) in the word. I thought I heard the р╕г sound when Kun Thai say it, but I went around one day last summer asking many Thai people I know to say it and listening carefully and I could not hear the тАШRтАЩ sound.

A few curious things on my journey to learn Thai: One happened the first time I realized I had made out the shopping list in Thai and not English, another was after the first dream I had in Thai.

р╕Мр╕нр╕Щ

[IEB2004-old]

Learning Thai is Sanook

I am sure there are many funny stories to tell about learning Thai. HereтАЩs one I think some of you might enjoy. When asked where I was from I would reply: Pom bpen kun Ireland (I am Irish). Kun Thai would almost invariably reply: Mi naam keng mak mak tii Iceland (you have a lot of ice in Iceland)!!! Then would follow my explanation in Thai about not having a lot of ice in Ireland, and that I was not Icelandic but Irish. I eventually learned to say: Pom bpen kun Irish / ilish (I am Irish - Kon Thai say тАШilishтАЩ) and that solved the problem, but put an end to my little bit of sanook.

р╕Мр╕нр╕Щ

The often used р╣Ар╕Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ (jer gan / see you) is one that gives me trouble. Why not je-gan, because as you can see there is no р╕г
(raw rua/ R) in the word. I thought I heard the р╕г sound when Kun Thai say it, but I went around one day last summer asking many Thai people I know to say it and listening carefully and I could not hear the тАШRтАЩ sound.


you have hit the nail on the head regarding the romanisation of Thai - many of the sounds dont have a direct equivalent in English. there is no р╕г on the end of р╣Ар╕Ир╕н - if р╕г appears at the end of a syllable it is pronounced as an 'n' sound. but if you write it as 'je' it would probably get prounced like 'jet' (without the 't'). 'jer' without pronouncing the 'r' on the end is better.

I really do agree with the view that the sooner you start learning Thai script, the sooner you will begin to improve pronunciation.