Virulent anti-Jewish at Baht stop, why?

[Narakmak]

I read the baht stop board and it is amazing how virulently anti Jewish this board is! You would think that European Pattaya expats just got off a U-boat from Nazi Germany. While nobody reasonable can applaud Israeli policies in Gaza, these virulent anti-semites go way over the top comparing modern days Jews to German Nazis.

For some balance on this new wave of anti-Semites, I suggest you read this article. Washington Post is a member site so I pasted:


Using the Holocaust to Attack the Jews


By Walter Reich
Sunday, February 1, 2009; Page B02

Dozens of cities held ceremonies last week to mark International Holocaust Remembrance Day. The good news is that the dead were remembered. The bad news is that even as the Holocaust is becoming a fixture in the world's memory, it is also being increasingly used as a weapon against the Jews and the Jewish state.

For some, ironically, the acknowledgment of the Holocaust's reality has become a screen behind which anti-Semitism has gathered new force. The hard-core Jew-haters spent decades denying that the best-documented genocide in world history ever took place. That won them such derision that even many anti-Semites have begun to admit the reality of the Holocaust -- and now are hoping that simply by doing so, they can immunize themselves from the charge that they're anti-Semites in the first place. How can you be an anti-Semite, they figure, if you recognize the Holocaust?

But as some people who don't like Jews have found, it's worth acknowledging the Holocaust if you can then turn it into a cudgel against the Jews. And that they've done, in spades. According to this crowd, the Jews today have become Nazis. The Jewish state is now supposedly carrying out a Holocaust against the Palestinians. Jews, the haters say, have always been evil, and their evil is only growing.

Of course, not all criticisms of Israel are the product of such bigoted logic. People of good will around the world are naturally shocked by the tragic and appalling deaths of Palestinian civilians, including those killed in the recent war in the Gaza Strip. Like any country, Israel can be criticized. But the massive and unceasing eruptions of outrage against the Jewish state -- in a world in which other countries and groups have, often provoking barely any outrage, engaged in immensely more destructive and immoral behavior -- can only be explained in a few ways. One is that attacking Israel has become a means of attacking Israel's ally, the United States. Another is that over-the-top attacks on Israel, particularly those invoking Holocaust language, have become a means of once again attacking the Jews.
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The Anti-Defamation League has documented the way this weapon was used during the recent war with Hamas. Here are a few of the placards spotted at rallies: In Times Square, the group reported such signs as, "Israel: The Fourth Reich," "Stop Israel's Holocaust," "Holocaust by Holocaust Survivors," "Stop the Nazi Genocide in Gaza" and "Nazi Genocide, Israeli Genocide." In Chicago: "Palestinian Holocaust in Gaza Now." In a Los Angeles demonstration, the Star of David in an Israeli flag was said to have been replaced by a swastika, accompanied by the words, "Upgrade to Holocaust Version 2.0." In San Diego: "Stop the Israeli Holocaust on Gaza." And the league reported that one rally in Washington included an effigy of the Israeli prime minister wearing a swastika armband and holding a dead baby.

The Gaza war provoked similar attacks from some world leaders and people of influence. "The Holocaust, that is what is happening right now in Gaza," Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said in televised comments, according to Reuters. The New York Times quoted a Catholic cardinal who argued that Gaza increasingly "resembled a big concentration camp." And according to the Jerusalem Post, a Norwegian diplomat based in Saudi Arabia sent out an e-mail from her Foreign Ministry account in which she wrote, "The grandchildren of Holocaust survivors from World War II are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was done to them by Nazi Germany." She reportedly also attached paired photos designed to suggest that Gaza was equivalent to the Holocaust: Next to the iconic photo of the Jewish child in the Warsaw Ghetto being menaced by a rifle-toting Nazi soldier, the diplomat is said to have placed an "image of an Israeli soldier aiming his weapon at a Palestinian boy."

Are all those who have accused Israel of being a Nazi state anti-Semites? Hardly. There's genuine anger in the Muslim world, as well as in Europe and elsewhere, about Israel's actions in Gaza. The suffering is terrible. So are the images of devastation Israel left behind. And there are also plenty of people who are angry at Israel because it stands for the reviled United States.

But the reality is that much of the vitriol directed at Israel has indeed been spouted by anti-Semites. Not only have they hurled the Nazi canard at Israel, they've expressed clear anti-Semitism -- some of it openly violent or even eliminationist. The pro-Israel but reliable Middle East Media and Research Institute has been documenting anti-Semitism on Palestinian television for years, including calls for the murder of Jews. It reports that, the day before International Holocaust Remembrance Day, one Egyptian cleric admitted on an Islamist TV channel that the Holocaust had happened -- and added that he hoped that one day Muslims would do to the Jews what the Germans had done to them. To demonstrate what he had in mind, according to the institute, he showed footage of heaps of Jewish corpses being bulldozed into pits.

In designating an International Holocaust Remembrance Day back in 2005, the U.N. General Assembly acted with noble intentions, even if parts of the world body still aim to delegitimize Israel. Such commemorations help the world understand that the goal of the Holocaust was the annihilation of an entire people -- and help them appreciate the vast differences between that event and, for example, the war in Gaza. But even as the Holocaust has been increasingly acknowledged and explained, it also has been increasingly used as a cudgel to beat Jews and the Jewish state.

wreich@gwu.edu

You have answered your own question. I understand baht-stop is run by Hedda who has "form" when it comes to such "anti-Semitism". However as both Jews and Arabs are Semites, I think what you mean is "anti-Zionist"

[Narakmak]

However as both Jews and Arabs are Semites, I think what you mean is "anti-Zionist"
Please don't tell me what I mean. I mean antisemitic which means anti-Jewish. Yes, Arabs are also semites but the standard definition of antisemitic is referring to Jews only.

[Khor tose]

However as both Jews and Arabs are Semites, I think what you mean is "anti-Zionist"
Please don't tell me what I mean. I mean antisemitic which means anti-Jewish. Yes, Arabs are also semites but the standard definition of antisemitic is referring to Jews only.

Okay, be just like Hedda if you want. Define things the way you want or make up facts like she does. I really do not care how you want to define it or what it means to you. Anti-Semite will always apply to both Jews and Arabs, and several other descendants of Shem in my book, and most of the dictionaries I have ever read agree with my understanding. Here is a site that quotes several well know dictionaries and an online etymology dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite

[Narakmak]

From your same source!
Come on. Read what I said. Yes, Arabs and Jews are both semites both antisemitic refers to Jews only. Hope you learned something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisemite

anтЛЕti-SemтЛЕite
тАВ тАВ/╦М├жnti╦Иs╔Ыma╔кt, ╦М├жnta╔к- or, especially Brit., -╦Иsima╔кt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [an-tee-sem-ahyt, an-tahy- or, especially Brit., -see-mahyt] Show IPA Pronunciation
тАУnoun
a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews.

However as both Jews and Arabs are Semites, I think what you mean is "anti-Zionist"Please don't tell me what I mean. I mean antisemitic which means anti-Jewish. Yes, Arabs are also semites but the standard definition of antisemitic is referring to Jews only.I'm impartially anti-semitic - any chance we can get them to nuke each other to annihiliation? The term "anti-Semite" was apparently coined by a Jew in the 19th century, according to Wikipedia. I guess it's the same sort of self-righteous and exclusive use that comes when people talk about "organic" food - as if there's any sort of food that is inorganic. Probably the original 19th century writer wanted his readers to think that Jews are the only true Semites. It's just a propaganda term.

I guess it's the same sort of self-righteous and exclusive use that comes when people talk about "organic" food - as if there's any sort of food that is inorganic.

You've never eaten a Twinkie, have you? I mean, the food item type.

You've never eaten a Twinkie, have you? I mean, the food item type.Sure. Why?

It was an example of a largely inorganic food. Never mind.

I read the baht stop board and it is amazing how virulently anti Jewish this board is! You would think that European Pattaya expats just got off a U-boat from Nazi Germany. While nobody reasonable can applaud Israeli policies in Gaza, these virulent anti-semites go way over the top comparing modern days Jews to German Nazis.

For some balance on this new wave of anti-Semites, I suggest you read this article. Washington Post is a member site so I pasted:



Its not just baht stop it's global, world wide and the entire web. It's also not anti-semitic, its rather anti-Israeli.

Israeli Jews can no longer hide behind their past to excuse the atrocities they commit today it has to take responsibilities for its actions like any other country.

Most striking is the use of the word holocaust, it too means different things to different people but the term definitely does not belong only in describing the concentration camps in second world war Germany, as Israeli Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai said before the recent Gaza bombings that killed hundreds of innocent children:


The Palestinians will bring on themselves a bigger "holocaust" by stepping up rocket attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip.

Maybe he reads the Oxford English dictionary and not the Washington Post?

[catawampuscat]

I forgot baht-stop :pukeleft: still exists. Its only purpose is to to bore the posters
into a semi-coma and allow hedda :pukeright: to run free and post pure bullshit
nonstop. That forum pretends to be an intellectual gathering of old
farts who know it all.. It is the worst of the gaythailand forums and it is
no surprise that they have gone extremist.
If you post and read baht-stop :pukeleft: , you deserve it whatever comes so stop complaining..
If you watch Fox Noise :pukeright: ,
you get pure bullshit too....

Anything connected with hedda is shit and self indulgent garbage and
only fools and pseudo-intellectuals and impotent men waste their time
there, imho...
Note: the puke is right-side next to Fox Noise.

That forum pretends to be an intellectual gathering of old farts who know it all.homintern a.k.a. cottmann?

[Wesley]

For the life of me I have never understood the anti- Semitic sentiment now or under the Furor. I thin it is jealously or their ability to just make money. I honestly and baffled when I read the articles and all that is said. If people were shooting rockets at us or, any other country there would be a world out cry. Why it is perfectly okay to shoot Rockets and missiles into schools nd homes of people in Israel and expect them not to respond is beyond my comprehension.

Wes

[Narakmak]

Call it anti-Jewish if you like. The point of starting this topic had nothing to do with the fact some of you don't know the definition of antisemitism and want to argue over the meaning of an established concept.

Of course a lot of the criticism of Israel's policies is totally legit and not related to anti-Jewishness. However, much of it is indeed rooted in hatred of Jews. It is not that hard to tell the difference. Just read the rhetoric of the people making the points. People who insist on comparing modern Israelis to German Nazis as being equivalent in their war crimes are completely wrong and are indeed insulting all Jewish people all over the world, not only Israelis.

There is so much of this blatant anti-Jewish sentiment at the baht stop site that I think it should be relabeled as a site for gay haters of Jews in Thailand rather than a general interest gay Thailand site.

Call it anti-Jewish if you like. The point of starting this topic had nothing to do with the fact some of you don't know the definition of antisemitism and want to argue over the meaning of an established concept.On the contrary most of us are bored rigid by those who won't move on. The Israelis should recognise they stole some of the Palestinian homeland so as they could have one of their own, and the Palestinians should recognise that Israel isn't going away. All sides need to reach a lasting accommodation. All sides are both right and wrong and they need to get over their grievances and the mutual blame game. Most people looking on simply don't care who is right and who is wrong; it's like those tedious neighbours of mine down the hallway in my condominium building who are forever at each other's throats. Sadly some of the other residents in the block feel the need to have an opinion one way or the other. More fool them

[Narakmak]

The Israelis should recognise they stole some of the Palestinian homeland so as they could have one of their own, and the Palestinians should recognise that Israel isn't going away. All sides need to reach a lasting accommodation.
Sounds reasonable to me. There is no anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, or antisemitic (which means anti-Jewish but if you wish to have your own special definition that to you also includes Arabs in that word, so be it) rhetoric in your point of view. You have presented a legitimate political point of view (which I happen to largely share) that is not tainted by virulent anti-Jewish sentiments. If you wish to see the difference, read Hedda and friends at baht stop, Jew hating central.

Sounds reasonable to me. There is no anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, or antisemitic (which means anti-Jewish but if you wish to have your own special definition that to you also includes Arabs in that word, so be it) rhetoric in your point of view.Unfortunately it's people like you who feel they have to play on the sidelines and self-importantly ponce about and pontificate about who is or is not anti-Semitic, rather than anti-Zionist, which means that a reasonable solution is less and less likely. In my opinion all sides should be held up to ridicule rather than being taken seriously, but that's my general view of life as anyone who reads my rants on this Board should easily recognise

[Narakmak]

You are so right. Hitler and Pol Pot were a bag of laughs. It sounds like you just confessed you are a silly person with no spine to stand up against hate. I don't hate you but I think you are an idiot.

You are so right. Hitler and Pol Pot were a bag of laughs. It sounds like you just confessed you are a silly person with no spine to stand up against hate. I don't hate you but I think you are an idiot.Absolutely - in my command of the Mobile Laundry I managed to stay well away from danger. You should ask yourself why tyrants ban cartoonists in order to understand the subtle different between ridicule and humour. But perhaps you are an American?

[Narakmak]

You should talk. You didn't even know the definition of antisemitism.

You should take. You didn't even know the definition of antisemitism.Oh dear - another bore for the {Ignore} list

[Narakmak]

You should take. You didn't even know the definition of antisemitism.Oh dear - another bore for the {Ignore} list
What an honor!

You are so right. Hitler and Pol Pot were a bag of laughs. It sounds like you just confessed you are a silly person with no spine to stand up against hate. I don't hate you but I think you are an idiot.Absolutely - in my command of the Mobile Laundry I managed to stay well away from danger. You should ask yourself why tyrants ban cartoonists in order to understand the subtle different between ridicule and humour. But perhaps you are an American?


Oh my God! You've started a sentence with a conjunction!

[Narakmak]

Oh my God! You've started a sentence with a conjunction!
Yes, this man is clearly a danger to himself and others.

Oh my God! You've started a sentence with a conjunction!You're not trying out some irony on an American, are you? I hope the poor chap was offended when I described him as self-important and poncing about; his reaction certainly suggests that. It was an easy catch when I read his response to my first post. What is it about Pattaya that attracts these nutters there, do you suppose. Hedda, x in pattaya, Gone Fisting and now this character all taking their posting activities as if they are the Delphic Oracle

[Narakmak]

I hope the poor chap was offended when I described him as self-important and poncing about
Nope. Why would I offended by someone I have no respect for?

There are Americans who do irony. They're maistly recent Scottish immigrants who import it from Barr's.

Here's (http://www.irn-bru.co.uk/advert/snowman.html) a wee taster fur yeese. I hope it's not disproportionate.

You are forgetting that he's the victim of the Jewish propaganda machine who have made up a word that could apply widely but then restricted it to themselves. Maybe it is another example of the "chosen people" concept? Or more likely it's "we are the victims". Didn't Hitler ban a Charlie Chaplin film because it ridiculed him?

[Narakmak]

Amazing. The topic was anti-Jewish bias at baht stop, not anti-Arab bias. There is no anti-Arab bias at baht stop. This fixation on the definition of antisemitism is astounding, and not meant to be the topic here anyway. Like I said before, call it anti-Jewish if you wish if for some bizarre reason you can't accept established definitions. I already supplied a link with the established definition, BTW, it is not Jewish propaganda, it is simply the definition of a word.

BTW, it is not Jewish propaganda, it is simply the definition of a word.Propaganda is all about the definitions of words and the use of language to manipulate perceptions just like advertising. In this case up until the 19th century there was only one word Semite and it means the same then as now a Jew or an Arab. Then a Jew made up a new word "anti-Semite" which anyone would think logically meant someone who is against Jews or Arabs but managed to give it a new and restricted meaning anti-Jew. If that isn't propaganda then perhaps you'll explain to us all what is. The Nazis didn't learn anything new on that score they just inherited what had been around for centuries. Besides what the Palestinians say they are is they are anti-Zionist and some of my best Jewish friends are also anti-Zionists.

[Narakmak]

Lets us go over this one more time for the slow learners.

Semite -- Jews and Arabs are both Semites
antisemitic -- anti-Jewish (history of same, see holocaust, pogroms, Spanish Inquisition, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hedda)
anti-Zionist -- against the idea of Israel as a Jewish state, yes of course many Jewish people are also anti-Zionist just as most Jewish people are not religious (so what?)
anti-Jewish -- a word used at Sawatdee for the slow learners who don't accept established definitions (see any dictionary)

My contention is that the strong bias at Baht Stop is strongly anti-Jewish (I will play your silly game of not using the proper word, antisemitic to humour you) and also anti-Zionist. You can be both. The rhetoric there is so vile and hateful that it obviously goes well beyond mere political disagreement with the foreign policy of the state of Israel.

Cheers, dudes.

1 What was your definition of propaganda again?
2 Why do you think we should care about what is going down at another discussion board?

[Narakmak]

Look up propaganda in a dictionary. I am not your walking dictionary.

The reason I started this topic is that this cannot be addressed at baht stop and baht stop presents itself as a board about gay Thailand (as this board does) but in reality is largely a mouthpiece for hatred against Jews.

The reason I started this topic is that this cannot be addressed at baht stop and baht stop presents itself as a board about gay Thailand (as this board does) but in reality is largely a mouthpiece for hatred against Jews.And you think we care?

There is no anti-Arab bias at baht stop.

That's a relief. What about a Muslim bias?

[Narakmak]

There is no anti-Arab bias at baht stop.

That's a relief. What about a Muslim bias?
I haven't really noticed that. I have noticed a pro-Palestinian bias.

[Narakmak]

The reason I started this topic is that this cannot be addressed at baht stop and baht stop presents itself as a board about gay Thailand (as this board does) but in reality is largely a mouthpiece for hatred against Jews.And you think we care?
How am I supposed to know what you think? That's what a forum is for, you speak your thoughts or you ignore the topic.

The reason I started this topic is that this cannot be addressed at baht stop and baht stop presents itself as a board about gay Thailand (as this board does) but in reality is largely a mouthpiece for hatred against Jews.And you think we care?How am I supposed to know what you think? That's what a forum is for, you speak your thoughts or you ignore the topic.It's what's known as a rhetorical question.

[Narakmak]

If you are asking if I think that the existence of the word antisemitic and its undisputed definition (except with silly people here) of being about Jews, not Arabs and Jews, is propaganda, no I don't think that is propaganda. There are many ways to express the different ways of being anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian, Islamophobic, etc. in the English language. It sounds like some of you think there was a secret meeting of the Elders of Zion who took a break from controlling the world's banks (who wants them these days anyway?) and decided to enforce their Zionist imperialism on the the word antisemitic. The word evolved from history simply because there has been so much history of persecution of Jews going back thousands of years. Indeed, without Hitler, the UN and President Truman would have never approved the state of Israel, so ironically Israel was born out of European antisemitism much more than Jewish Zionism.

BTW, it seems the main interest here is discussion of the word antisemitic. What a limited subject indeed. Is there really anything else to say about it? It means what it means. We work with the language that we've got.

[Smiles]

Amazing. The topic was anti-Jewish bias at baht stop, not anti-Arab bias. There is no anti-Arab bias at baht stop. This fixation on the definition of antisemitism is astounding, and not meant to be the topic here anyway. Like I said before, call it anti-Jewish if you wish if for some bizarre reason you can't accept established definitions. I already supplied a link with the established definition, BTW, it is not Jewish propaganda, it is simply the definition of a word.
Narakmak, Baht-Stop is mainly comprised of 7 or 8 Members who all agree with each other, all parrot each other, and all have a good old-fashioned go at anyone who attempts to bring up anything approaching the concept that the Palestinians have any 'fault' whatsoever in this terrible never-ending tit-for-tat violence in the Israel/Gaza/West bank region.

If you can imagine ( :bounce: ) I was once called ... get ready for it ... "a Jew" because of some (targeted as pro-Israeli) points I was trying to make.
Right now, the Official Baht-Stop Spin revolves around the pushing of the recent Gaza fighting as akin to the massacres of Polish Jews during WW2. Right.

Baht-Stop is a Hedda-dominated message board, and populated with half a dozen Hedda boot lickers who make 85% of the postings. A waste of time.

Cheers ...

PS ... 'Smiles' ~ although he approves of this message ~ does admit to having, in general, a visceral and well-deserved disdain for Hedda. So you are advised to take that into consideration when reading (or responding to) this post.

If you can imagine ( :bounce: ) I was once called ... get ready for it ... "a Jew" because Perhaps you are circumcised?

[Narakmak]

Right now, the Official Baht-Stop Spin revolves around the pushing of the recent Gaza fighting as akin to the massacres of Polish Jews during WW2. Right.
Yes, and I find that very outrageous. That is why I started this thread with the article from the Washington Post that at least provides some balance to people who are unfamiliar with the tactics of these new antisemites of which Hedda is a star pupil, and may even accept his rhetoric as fact.


Such commemorations help the world understand that the goal of the Holocaust was the annihilation of an entire people -- and help them appreciate the vast differences between that event and, for example, the war in Gaza. But even as the Holocaust has been increasingly acknowledged and explained, it also has been increasingly used as a cudgel to beat Jews and the Jewish state.

[Wesley]

The most amazing point of the whole matter is why we would care what happens or, is said on Baht Stop, that is considering who we already know is running it. Smiles described the forum to a T, and why we would care is irrelevant. It would have been better to begin a thread on Jewish prejudice and call it what it is.

Wes

[Narakmak]

It would have been better to begin a thread on Jewish prejudice and call it what it is.
Fine, so you start that thread if you think it would be better. I hope at least one person found the Washington Post article of interest to better understand the mindset of people like Hedda. The Pattaya gay "community" is a very sick thing indeed if Hedda and her court of elders of anti-Zion are part of the crown royalty. Decent people should consider condemning these sick Jew hating queens at every opportunity.

[Wesley]

It would have been better to begin a thread on Jewish prejudice and call it what it is.
Fine, so you start that thread if you think it would be better. I hope at least one person found the Washington Post article of interest to better understand the mindset of people like Hedda. The Pattaya gay "community" is a very sick thing indeed if Hedda and her court of elders of anti-Zion are part of the crown royalty. Decent people should consider condemning these sick Jew hating queens at every opportunity.

Hedda and her hob goblins are everything you say they are, My point is why elevate her point of view to any importance by quoting it here. I'm saying simply she nor her twisted way of thinking is worth our time. it is like when Obama struck out at Rush; a simple radio host who was elevated to the level of the Oval office the minute he was mentioned. Same with Hedda. If you know her you know she is nto worth the time of day.

Wes

[Narakmak]

The reason I have is that this clique of neo-antisemites has social power in gay Pattaya and I think people should basically tar and feather them. There is no place in a group of homos for the kind of racial hatred they espouse, against Jews, against anybody. Many of the original German Nazis were also evil queens, Hitler took care of them soon enough though. So maybe he wasn't all bad. That was a joke.

The Hedda cabal think they are in the vogue and oh so trendy with their neo-antisemitism, so fresh and continental. Well, consider this thread as a big bucket of fresh smelly shit thrown on your head, Ms. H.

[Brad the Impala]

The reason I have is that this clique of neo-antisemites has social power in gay Pattaya and I think people should basically tar and feather them.


Hedda and her chums have NO power in Pattaya, social or otherwise, other than the powere to touch up each others flawed makeup.

[Narakmak]

Good to hear that if it is true. If it is true, then, never mind!

http://www.oneworldlive.com/reachforthestars/img/mainphoto_story_gilda.jpg

[Smiles]

Using the Washington Post article with that small cabal on Baht-Stop is pretty well useless as a talking point because of this one, over-riding opinion there: i.e. anything written or discussed in the media which has any perceived Israel-positive concepts attached is automatically relegated to the 'Jewish Lobby' bin-of-spin.
Having put it in that bin, it therefore ~ in Baht-Stop-Land ~ becomes just one more proof-positive of another example of Israeli dominance, and therefore, simply Palestinian bias.

There is an interesting general assessment of the dynamic of internet message board 'argument' (or 'discussion') which goes something like this: " ... all discussions on anonymous message boards generally start to go downhill ~ after, let's say, 20 posts or so ~ until they get to a point of general name calling and insult. After that, it's only a matter of time until somebody calls somebody else a Nazi. All rational argument stops at that point ... "
On the Israeli/Palestinian question, Baht-Stop arrived at that point many moons ago.

Cheers ...

On the Israeli/Palestinian question, Baht-Stop arrived at that point many moons ago.That was their starting point, wasn't it?

[catawampuscat]

Note to narakmak: enough already.. anytime you have to post over
and over on your own thread, you just end up boring one and all and
repeating yourself over and over. We go the message.
homintern was voted #1 poster on this forum in a 'queer' poll and while
controversial, his knowledge and intelligence are a given.

Anyone who despises hedda, is obviously a clear thinker and inspired.
Smiles is onthe anti-hedda/gone fishinhg crusade as well and many others who know the demented mind of hedda/gone fishing.
There is no solution to your issue narakmak and the best thing you can
do is never visit baht-stop again and forget it exists.. it is easy to do..

P.S. I am not 100% sure that gone fisting is hedda redux but the style
tone and content convince me I am correct.. since I don't read hedda and
haven't for a long long time, I am a bit rusty but it is similar to figuring out
who the new boygeenyus or lmtu/earwig is.. It might take a posting or two
but it becomes obvious to those who spend far too much time on this forum.
:cat:

[Narakmak]

Note to narakmak: enough already.. anytime you have to post over
and over on your own thread, you just end up boring one and all and
repeating yourself over and over. We go the message.
homintern was voted #1 poster on this forum in a 'queer' poll and while
controversial, his knowledge and intelligence are a given.

That's all a bit late. I suppose you didn't read my last post: Never Mind!

Regarding Homi, that may indeed be true but based on his childish response to me after just a few back and forths, perhaps in addition to all the wonderful qualities you attribute to him, he may also be a POMPOUS ASS. This is typical on these boards, so called "senior" members trying to make pariahs of others just for having a different point of view from them.

There is no place in a group of homos for the kind of racial hatred they espouse, against Jews, against anybody.

Why should "a group of homos" be any less (or any more) tolerant of any other group, such as racists, than a group of straights? Unless there is some sort of "union of the persecuted", who have nothing else in common, I really can't see any justification for this at all.

Note to Catacretin: enough already.. anytime you have to post over
and over, you just end up boring one and all and
repeating yourself over and over. We got the message.

More notes to Catacretin:

Homintern's "knowledge and intelligence are a given"!! In comparison to your own, quite possibly, but that merely puts him into the same league as the most stupid of my dogs.

"Smiles is onthe anti-hedda/gone fishinhg crusade as well". Smiles is perfectly able to think and post for himself - whatever "crusade" he may be on (and I have never thought him the crusading type), he is not confusing me with Hedda, as he has already made very clear ( stop-changing-the-freaking-subject-line-of-the-post-t15974-75.html?hilit=hedda (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/stop-changing-the-freaking-subject-line-of-the-post-t15974-75.html?hilit=hedda) (page 6)). This is a delusion which only you are suffering from.

Why should "a group of homos" be any less (or any more) tolerant of any other group, such as racists, than a group of straights? Unless there is some sort of "union of the persecuted", who have nothing else in common, I really can't see any justification for this at all.What are your views on this topic (anti-semitism) Gone Fishing?

What are your views on this topic (anti-semitism) Gone Fishing?

Not ones which I can think of any possible reason to post about on a gay message board.

Not ones which I can think of any possible reason to post about on a gay message board.Is that the basis on which you will be posting in future? You will only write about something that has relevance to a gay message board?

[Narakmak]

Why should "a group of homos" be any less (or any more) tolerant of any other group, such as racists, than a group of straights? Unless there is some sort of "union of the persecuted", who have nothing else in common, I really can't see any justification for this at all.
That's a fair point. However, we are talking here on a gay board
"a group of homos"
about another gay board ... another
"a group of homos"

I would agree that statement should be broadened to all people. There is no excuse for anti-semitism from any group. Even Palestinians. The Jewish Israelis are their neighbors and both sides need to learn to get along. Racism won't help that.

[Khor tose]

I read the baht stop board and it is amazing how virulently anti Jewish this board is! You would think that European Pattaya expats just got off a U-boat from Nazi Germany. While nobody reasonable can applaud Israeli policies in Gaza, these virulent anti-semites go way over the top comparing modern days Jews to German Nazis.



I definitely agree with your comments about the Baht Stop board. Their discussions of the middle east are not only terribly one sided, but they often make up things as they go along. Facts are not important, and every nasty rumor is okay with them. However, I am afraid that I do share the belief that the Israeli Jews are very close to being Nazis. I will discuss this last.


Come on. Read what I said. Yes, Arabs and Jews are both semites both antisemitic refers to Jews only. Hope you learned something.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisemite
anтЛЕti-SemтЛЕite
тАВ тАВ/╦М├жnti╦Иs╔Ыma╔кt, ╦М├жnta╔к- or, especially Brit., -╦Иsima╔кt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [an-tee-sem-ahyt, an-tahy- or, especially Brit., -see-mahyt] Show IPA Pronunciation
тАУnoun
a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews.

From your same source!
Come on. Read what I said. Yes, Arabs and Jews are both semites both antisemitic refers to Jews only. Hope you learned something.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisemite.

You are correct in your definition. I took Latin in School and I went straight to the root words. Your definition is widely accepted, but I do hate the word at a level of purity that says what "anti" means and what "semite" means. However, anti-Jewish is the correct usuage.



Regarding Homi, that may indeed be true but based on his childish response to me after just a few back and forths, perhaps in addition to all the wonderful qualities you attribute to him, he may also be a POMPOUS ASS. This is typical on these boards, so called "senior" members trying to make pariahs of others just for having a different point of view from them.

Yes, Homi is bright, but completely agree with the rest of your assessment. Congratulate me, I am the only person on this board that Homi now has on ignore. You might be interested to find out what subject definitely puts him over the edge, but that is another conversation.

As to Israel, I am definitely anti-Zionist. If the Nazi's were anything they were people who believe they belonged to the chosen race. Now I have nothing wrong with saying you are chosen, or believing that to be a fact. What I strongly object to is when you allow that belief to let you treat others as less then human, and that to me has been happening in the middle east sine 1967. Yes, I was also offended by Israel prior to this, but Deir Yassin and other atrocities where part of her nation building that many nations are guilty of. So let us talk about the Nazification of Israel.

Allow me to mention what I base this on.
1. The deliberate attack on the Liberty.
2. A made-up justification for attacking Syria and Jordan in 1967. Egypt I justify--the others were just a land grab and an object lessons.
3. The building of the settlements on Palestinian land. I absolutely refuse to accept Israel justification based on the Torah that says the land is theirs. The Palestinians have lived on this land for 1000+ years and you just do not take someones home away. The Israeli settlement policy, quite apart from its terrible effect on Palestinians, is outrageous for what it represents: a careful, deliberate rejection of peace, and a declaration of the fixed intention to dispossess the Palestinians until they have nothing left
4. The treatment of the Palestinians as second class citizens in their own land.
5. The building of fences that showed Israel's intention to keep the land and drive the Palestinians away. This along with the destruction of 18,000 homes in the west bank since 1967. http://www.18000homes.org/
6. The treatment of their own citizens of Palestinian descent in Israel. They cannot buy homes, fix up their houses, and they are slowly being squeezed out of their own homes by Israeli Jews who can do all of these things.
7. The failure to recognize that it is their treatment of the Palestinians that provokes the rocket attacks, and then an overreacting where thousands of women, children and other non-combatants are killed. One great example is during the Gaza attack, three of the settlements in the West Bank were allowed to double in size. This is a country looking for peace with its neighbors?

I could fill pages and pages of individual and state acts, but you get the idea. I will also admit that the Palestinian and arab leadership is solely lacking during this whole conflict. They are their own worse enemies. To this end I sort of agree with Homi that this issue has got to the point where I wish they would just kill each other off and go away. I repeat it is okay to believe you are the chosen race because God has given you a mandate, but when you treat others like they are less then human because of your belief---then you are a Nazi, or sadly an Israeli.

[Smiles]

" ... Congratulate me, I am the only person on this board that Homi now has on ignore ...
I doubt that. Homintern's Ignore list is a very long one indeed, and I'm certain, a record for this Board.
I have only one fool on Ignore ... which by no means is an accurate indication of 'Number-of-Fools' on Sawatdee. Sounds like poll fodder.
______________________________________________

Anyway, forgetting that minor diversion, and as well, ignoring your simplistic (but oh so common) comparison of Jews to Nazis, you may want to check out The Hamas Charter << http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html >>.

It's a truly labourious read (certainly as heavy and leaden as Mein Kampf in it's own way), awash in Islamic millenarianist language, and as depressingly bigoted as any other fundamentalist tract written over the (bloody) ages by Christians, Muslims et al.
But, if you can't make it through the whole thing, especially check out Articles 11,12,13, and 15 and see for yourself why it's hard to think seriously of negotiating with Hamas about anything.

The Palestinians have been incredibly ~ nay, criminally ~ badly served by their (various) leaderships over decades. If there ever was a need for an entire people to rise up and throw all the bastards out on their asses, it's the Palestinans.

Cheers ...

[Wesley]

" ... Congratulate me, I am the only person on this board that Homi now has on ignore ...
I doubt that. Homintern's Ignore list is a very long one indeed, and I'm certain, a record for this Board.
I have only one fool on Ignore ... which by no means is an accurate indication of 'Number-of-Fools' on Sawatdee. Sounds like poll fodder.
______________________________________________

Anyway, forgetting that minor diversion, and as well, ignoring your simplistic (but oh so common) comparison of Jews to Nazis, you may want to check out The Hamas Charter << http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html >>.

It's a truly labourious read (certainly as heavy and leaden as Mein Kampf in it's own way), awash in Islamic millenarianist language, and as depressingly bigoted as any other fundamentalist tract written over the (bloody) ages by Christians, Muslims et al.
But, if you can't make it through the whole thing, especially check out Articles 11,12,13, and 15 and see for yourself why it's hard to think seriously of negotiating with Hamas about anything.

Damn well stated dear Smiles, you put into words my thoughts, but, as usual, unable to express it quite so eloquently as you.

All the best
Wes

The Palestinians have been incredibly ~ nay, criminally ~ badly served by their (various) leaderships over decades. If there ever was a need for an entire people to rise up and throw all the bastards out on their asses, it's the Palestinans.

Cheers ...

Not ones which I can think of any possible reason to post about on a gay message board.Is that the basis on which you will be posting in future? You will only write about something that has relevance to a gay message board?

It is the primary basis on which I have always posted here, as well as posting on those subjects which either interest me or about which I have some knowledge - anti-semitism is not one of them.

I am flattered that you are so interested in my views, however, so I will humour you. I put anti-semitism (by which I mean hatred of Jews, which I believe is the generally accepted meaning) in the same category as racism, homophobia or any discrimination based purely and unreasonably on grounds of race, creed, gender, religion or sexual preference. I add the proviso "unreasonably" as I believe that very occasionally there are grounds for such discrimination. For example: in most purely physical sports it is not realistic for men and women to compete (although some women are unbdoubtedly far better in many sports than many men); I do not consider it acceptable for men to be put in supervisory posts which may include supervising women and girls washing after sports, etc, or vice-versa, or similarly gays/lesbians, or for someone to be placed in charge of organising Christmas festivities who is not a Christian, Dashera who is not a Hindu, Ramadhan who is not a Muslim etc; I think there are certain branches of the military which are unsuitable for women and where, although they may well be physically and mentally as capable as men, their presence and the relationships which will inevitably be made could be a distraction and counter-productive, resulting in unnecessary fatalities and casualties (this could also apply to gays/lesbians in certain cases), something which is not applicable in other professions. All of us (men, women, gay, lesbian, black, white, Moslem, Jew, etc, etc) are not created equal and very occasionally that inequality is the result of religion, gender, etc, in which case I think that discrimination is not only acceptable but preferable; in the vast majority of cases, however, I do not.

As far as Israel is concerned, this is a different question to anti-semitism. I think that both Wesley and Smiles have got it right, and that even though they may not be reading from the same page they are both singing from the same song book - I do not think that there is much to choose between the policies of Hamas and Israel, but that does not mean that either all Palestinians or all Israelis are as "bigoted, fundamentalist" or unpleasant as their leaders. The solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict? If I knew that I would not be retired in Pattaya (or maybe I would, if I saw no chance of any solution being implemented). I would suggest three possibilities, all equally improbable:

1. The Israeli leadership succeeed with what appears to be their aim and drives all non-Jewish Israelis out of Israel (and the occupied territories) and the Palestinians give up their ancestral lands. Unlikely.

2. The UN declare Jerusalem the capital of the world (certainly justifiable on religious and cultural grounds) and it becomes an independent UN governed state. Unlikely but amusing (if only for the suggestion that the UN is capable of controlling anything).

3. Israelis and their supporters internationally become so disillusioned with ever more extremist and radical leadership (as do the Palestinians) that they "throw all the bastards out on their asses" and become willing to compromise rationally. Unlikely, but it is arguable that had it not been for George W, Obama would never have been elected; on the other hand, the leadership could become so fanatical that they would prefer the "Masada" option to any compromise.

I hope that has satisfied your curiosity, Curious.

[Wesley]

I would say at least in my childhood and life, all my friends have been pro Jewish. I am not all the fond now of Zionist but, see no need for discrimination on that point alone.

Wes

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

However as both Jews and Arabs are Semites, I think what you mean is "anti-Zionist"
Please don't tell me what I mean. I mean antisemitic which means anti-Jewish. Yes, Arabs are also semites but the standard definition of antisemitic is referring to Jews only.

I come to this thread late with a tear in my eye..for there is a comment from my beloved Homintern ! (I truly miss him).

I would question though Narakmak, your claim that anti-Semetic means anti-Jewish..purely in a practical sense though of course it is used to mean anti-Jewish by most Jewish groups.

Take my Russian Grandmother (please !)..mad as a March hare but that's by the by-she was Jewish but really after 6 generations of Russian heritage it would be wrong to refer to her as a Semite. It was bred out of her aeons ago.

Quite apart from whether you support the Palestinians or the Israelis in the recent calamities, I believe Palestinians have a greater claim to be Semites than the current citizens of Israel-most of whom now are from the former East European satelite countries of the former USSR (and indeed many are returning..Israel being one of the few countries with a declining population).

It's all semantics of course..ha ! Semantics for Semites !

but I see a greater problem here for the Palestinians (and I admit I am pro-Palestinian in their current woes) as I see the use of "anti-Semetic" as being another manner in which to demoralise an already demoralised people-those who have lived in Gaza for generations.

My personal belief is that the current and probably future governments of Israel are doomed for failure-indeed I believe Israel as a nation is doomed for failure and that the idea of Iran bringing about it's cause is a fantasy-it will come from within Israel.

Many Jewish scholars and religious figures echo my sentiments that the country is in danger of losing it's "soul" if it hasn't already happened and this will lead to it's decline.

over to you....

[Khor tose]

My personal belief is that the current and probably future governments of Israel are doomed for failure-indeed I believe Israel as a nation is doomed for failure and that the idea of Iran bringing about it's cause is a fantasy-it will come from within Israel.
Many Jewish scholars and religious figures echo my sentiments that the country is in danger of losing it's "soul" if it hasn't already happened and this will lead to it's decline.
over to you....

I wish I had said this. Well put, and all to true, sad in a way, but true. :salute:

[Narakmak]

Update on that scumbag Jew-hating Hedda. If you had any doubts that this shithead is a virulent anti-semite, read her latest gem, praising the message of Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Yes, the very same Mahmoud Ahmadinejad presiding over a regime that murders gays, and the very same man who is the world's most vocal holocaust denier and biggest promoter to wipe the Jewish state of Israel off the map. Notice also how this rat Hedda conveniently failed to mention this quote from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at the so called UN anti-racism farce of a conference:


Israel is a "paragon of racism" founded on "the pretext of Jewish sufferings" during World War II

"they resorted to military aggression to make an entire nation homeless, on the pretext of Jewish sufferings and the ambiguous and dubious question" of the Holocaust.


Pretext, huh?
You want a paragon of racism? Hedda is your girl.
Kudos to the EU and the USA for walking out on this dangerous man. When can we bomb Iran? This regime cannot be allowed to acquire nukes.

Gay pride soon in Israel, how about it?
http://www.gaytlvguide.com/component/co ... n-tel-aviv (http://www.gaytlvguide.com/component/content/article/12-fp-articles/17-june-2009-pride-month-in-tel-aviv)

[Marsilius]

...If the Nazi's were anything they were people who believe they belonged to the chosen race....

Not so, I'm afraid. The Nazis never conceded that there was such a thing as a higher power that would "choose" any race for supremacy over the others.

Instead they adopted a position of social Darwinism, believing that the races of the world were in natural competition with each other for scarce resources and that, to achieve supremacy, the German race would need to demonstrate its greater strength and determination over the others - not simply to rely on having been "chosen" to rule the world by some deity or other.

Thus it was that, in the dying days of the Third Reich, Adolf Hitler ordered Albert Speer to implement the complete destruction of Germany's infrastructure, doing so on the grounds that the German people, far from being supernaturally and permanently "chosen", had demonstrated (by losing the war) that they were simply not the strongest and hence pre-eminent race in the world after all.

Meanwhile, the Jews keep rocking:

Though Jews make up less than 3% of the U.S. population, they have won more than 25% of the Nobel Prizes awarded to American scientists since 1950, account for 20% of the country's chief executives and 22% of Ivy League students. On average, their IQ is between 7.5% and 15% higher than the European average.

This from:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la- ... 8229.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18,0,7978229.story)

Come to think of it, maybe that is why Hedda hates them so much: they are smarter than he is.

[Smiles]

Take it easy Narakmak ... Baht-Stop is read by almost no one, and topics there receive only one or two replies, 95% of which emanate from Hedda's band o' bootlickers.

There is old saying that by 50 years old (or is it 40?) you are left with the face you deserve. Well Baht-Stop is the Board Hedda deserves ... as dry and dull as the Kalahari, as humourless as a starving Tasmanian Devil, as populated as the heart of Antarctica, and as soulful as Dick Cheney on a good day.

....The Nazis never conceded that there was such a thing as a higher power that would "choose" any race for supremacy over the others.

Instead they adopted a position of social Darwinism, believing that the races of the world were in natural competition with each other .....

And of course when "natural competition" fails they could resort to extermination, selective breeding and other means of "artificial selection".

Oh come on Marsilius. The Nazis were Nutzis. They had no real philosophy behind their actions. They were just a bunch of racist fanatic kooks who cherry picked certain scientific ideas to justify their lunacy.

Hedda on the other hand is just a BORE......

[Edit]...Actually Marsillius I do get the point of your post and you are right. I just might spin it a bit differently....