ajarntrade is leaving Thailand

The time has come for me to depart Thailand. My reasons being:

1. The heat and humidity are killing me. I thought that over time I would aclimatize... I have not. I'm tired of having to take 3, 4 or even 5 showers a day. I'm tired of being hot and sweaty all day, every day. I'm fat and I'm diabetic and I just can't take it any more.

2. I don't want to work FOR Thai people any more. I have no problem working WITH Thai people but working FOR them drives me CRAZY. They have no concept of how to manage foreigners in the work place. Their way of circuitus communication is supposed to decrease conflicts but it usually only serves to create confusion. Their insistance that I wear a long sleved shirt and neck tie when it is 36C out with 97% humidity to work every day is unreasonable. Their management style is usually such that you don't work WITH a Thai manager... you work FOR a Thai manager and they expect you to be like the Thais and never express your opinion or disagree with them on anything, just shut up and do what you are told to do. Don't think too much... don't think at all. I've done it for 3 years now and I'm finished. Thailand is a great place to visit, it's even a great place to live if you can get used to the weather and you don't have to work here; But Thailand is a TERRIBLE place to have to work.

I've accepted a teaching position at a university in Mexico City. Mexico City is 7000 feet above sea level and in the desert so it's cooler with little or no humidity at all. Yes, terrible pollution but I'll be in the northern part of the city and it can't be much worse than I've had living here in Sathorn, downtown Bangkok.

I wish you all good luck, happiness and safe adventures. I'll check in now and then and will be back for holidays at times.

Wish me luck,

ajarntrade
Ernest

[Up2U]

I know you have researched this thoroughly but why Mexico, a Catholic and homophobic country? Hope you're not forced to live a closeted lifestyle. Even the gay resorts like PV pale in comparison to the LOS. Curious what kind of job you had in Thailand. Best of luck in your new adventure!

Mexico City has a thriving gay scene. Though I will have to be less "out" while I am living there, I have never not answered the question, "are you gay?" honestly. If I'm asked, I tell the truth, " Yes, I am a great big homosexual." And I usually use those exact words.

What did I do for work in Thailand? I taught English in Thai high schools. I've never taught in a language school, I've always only worked in regular high schools. My last school paid about 60,000 baht plus 5000 more for housing. Pretty damned good for Thailand. Most language schools pay 35, 000 to 40,000 at best. My life here has been very enjoyable expect for the 2 things I mentioned before.

ajarntrade

Arjantrade, how sad after all the effort you have put into it to make a go of things. Is your condition such that you cant loose weight? Because if you did you wouldn't sweat so much and the humidity and weather wouldn't get so over-bearing. As for the other reason why not just change jobs. There must be many schools out there to choose from.

Mexico and the Catholics are surprisingly Gay. Its not the Thai gay style, where you can walk down the street and be yourself and people will like you for doing just that, its more married men pretending to be straight and closet experimental teenagers believing they are bi-curious but gay as Madame Edith. The out and out types are seen as perverts and given your size you will not be able to hide this easily. Though Mexico city is a big place, that's for sure.

I wish for your own sake you would re-consider.

[Dodger]

Ajarntrade,

Life is good where ever you choose to hang your hat if you have an open mind...positive attitude...and know what you want, and I'm sure you'll do just fine in Mexico.

I love Mexico City, although have only been there on business with very little time to explore the pink lights. I do recall the sizzling Zone Rosa as having more good looking guys than any other strip on the planet, and the restaurants are fabulous...my favorite being Los Valentines with their festive Mariachi, smooth-as-glass tequila and young waiters storing those plump limes in the crease of their Ricky Ricardo style white pants.

Having friends who work in Thailand, I've observed their general lifestyles and attitudes over time, and there seems to be a transition that they go through...from feeling vibrant and grandiose about working in their own playground...to appearing a bit depressed for some unexplainable reason. Maybe it's the heat - maybe it's the cultural differences, who knows, - but it seems to take hold of many, if not most farangs over time.

Having said that, another advantage of residing somewhere else is having the opportunity to return to LOS as a holiday goer, where all those exciting feelings of the early days will return in all their glory.

Good luck in Mexico, and don't for a minute think you can escape US.


mai pen rai

Vic

[wowpow]

We wish you luck as we wave you goodbye.
Cheerio - there you go - on your way.
We wish you luck as we wave you goodbye.
Not a tear - but a cheer - make it gay.
Give me a smile I can keep for a while
In my heart while you're away.
Till we meet once again - you and we
We wish you luck as we wave you goodbye.

After the lyrics by Harry Parr-Davies
popularized by Lancashire's very own Gracie Fields

Good luck in your Worldwide hunt for happiness.

[dab69]

surprised to read 60,000 bT for a regular high school, but guessing they are not air conditioned + all the STUDents body heat must be tremendous all day. But It's good to hear for all of us that have been considering teaching whatever over there, what our own outcome might eventually be.

[yaraboy]

Mexico City is wonderful. Way more cultural and historical than Bangkok. Climate is near perfect.........perpetual spring. Pollution is much better than before and yes northern DF has less than southern. Metro bus and Metro very efficient ( 15 baht)Gay scene centered around Zona Rosa is vibrant with bars discos and cafes. Within that area lots of hand holding and affection displayed. Very littleof a commercial scene and very few gringo tourists. One downside is crime and most residents have been impacted somehow. Personally in a dozen trips I have never experienced any.

Have fun Ajarntrade

I hope I'm not prying, but how are you leaving it with your very handsome Thai bf?

[colmx]

Hi AjarnTrade
As BG asks above the first thought that sprung to my mind was that you must have had a falling out with ur Bf and this was reason no.3 for leaving (or maybe the principal reason for leaving?)

As someone who is in a Long-Term-Long-Distance relationship (theres one for the Colonel!) I think its always a shame when Farang-Thai relationships break up... I do hope the 2 of you are departing on good terms...

How easy is it for a thai to get a Mexican visa?

There is nothing that will destroy the appeal and charm of being in a foreign country like WORKING in a foreign country LOL. Those who retire in Thailand or work part time jobs that they enjoy (preferably for a farang) seem much happier.

[Dick]

Ajarntrade,
I'm naturally wondering what becomes of your bf?
Will you maintain a long distance relationship like many on the board, or is it adious amigo?
Is Mexico one of those (few) countires where a Thai can travel to without a Visa?
Sorry if close to heart, but from your generous posts in the past, it is hard not to sympathise with your situation.

[Bob]

The heat in Bangkok surely is stiffling at times, at least to me. But I've also found that my blood thins out after a few days and I'm begin to like the heat. But over 35 C never gets to be too much fun.

Good luck with your stay in Mexico City. I've been there once before - loved the place - and heading back at the end of May.
Contrary to all the reports, I saw very little pollution there - and, compared to Bangkok's pollution, the place is damn near pristine! Here's a photo that shows (unretouched) what the air looked like when I was there about 2 years ago:
http://upload4.postimage.org/84037/MexicoCity24.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/84037/photo_hosting.html)

Enjoy.[/img]

I lived in Mexico, not DF. and loved it.
If it wasn't for my Thai bf I would move back there. This heat is terrible and blood does not THIN OUT eventually. Blood is blood. Buena swerte.

As someone who is in a Long-Term-Long-Distance relationship (theres one for the Colonel!)
Definition: we fuck each other when we're together, and others when we're apart

I think its always a shame when Farang-Thai relationships break up
Why is that worse (apart from the boy losing one of his regular sources of income) than any other break-up?

[bing]

You will love Mexico City. There is a on-going concern about safety, especially with taxi drivers. I do know a hotel owner in Acapulco who was taken to a back alley and robbed, but that is the exception, I hope. I stayed the the Princess in the Zona Rosa years ago and had a delightful time, no one gave any me any problem, in fact I could have had a perfectly good time with all the guys hanging around the hotel. I do personally prefer Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta for spending time in Mexico, but I'm a beach guy. Remember Mexico City is a huge place, and loaded with poor folks, so enjoy the move, but be extra careful till you really get a feel for the place.

[yaraboy]

Oh and i forgot to mention that i find Spanish much easier to learn than Thai!!!

Also no jet lag when going there

Being from the states Mexico has always been in the back of my mind for being a possible retirement place. The draw back for me has been the corrupt police and the guys are more macho. I have always found the thais much more gentle and for the most part the boys go out of the way to try and please you. The soaring prices of flights and the new social order tho have taken the fun out of travel to thailand. After 11 years and over 30 trips I too am thinking of mexico as a greater option. Please let us know how things are there and best of luck to you.

Our relationship was never mainly based on money. I never asked him to stop working... I never paid him a monthly "salary" to be my boyfriend. If he stayed with me it was because he wanted to, not because he needed my money. Trust me, if a Thai boy does not want to be with you, he'll be gone. Though he clearly understood that I was his "safety net". If he needed money for something he could always ask. The times he did ask he approached me with something similar to, " I have 20,000 baht. I want to buy a motorcycle, can you give me 20,000 to help me out?" Never did he just straight out ask for money, though I did offer it fairly often.

He is a 27 year old MAN. Not a boy at all. He was a self suficient, self respecting and dignified person before he met me. A few of the character qualities that attracted me to him ( besides beautiful abs and an ass to die for ). I have no doubt that he will continue to be. I did not ever want him to become dependent on me in any way. I remember telling him early in out relationship that I am my own person. I don't NEED any one else to complete me. I choose to be in our relationship because I like how I feel about me when I'm with HIM. He said similar things to me. I believe he said something to the effect of, " We will be alone but together as long as we want to make each other happy." That seemed to work pretty well for both of us. Indeed the only times we had problems in the relationship were when either one of us tried to impose our will on the other. Then we argued and found compromise and finally kissed and made up. The first year was a bit rough. But March 2nd 2006 we celebrated our 2 year anniversary.

We will end our relationship as boyfriends when I leave Thailand. He says that we will be friends "forever" and I believe him. I will still be a "safety net" for him, though I will not be sending money on a monthly or even a regular basis. He jokes with me about some Thai boys and girls who have farang sending them money every month or when the "buffalo is sick". He says that there is a difference between boyfriend and customer. A customer always pays. I agree with him. Niether of us wants me to become his customer again. He says that he will never have another boyfriend after me. I believe him. He needs to find a woman to marry and have kids with in the next few years. If he doesn't, who will take care of him when he's an old man?

If it were not for Pong, I might have not stayed in Thailand this long, 3 years. I love him now and I will love him always. We have had a positive effect on each others lives that I believe has been beneficial for both of us.

I know that some of you will not agree with some of the things I've written in this post. I'm not going to defend it. My words are my words and you can take them or leave them, it's up to you.

Sincerely,

Ernest

[Smiles]

Earnest, although folks may unfortunately skip over your post above, I'd like to thank you for adding a few dimensions to the discussion of ThaiGuy/Farang relationships which are seldom read here on the Board. Defining things as you have is a pleasure to read, and so very true . . . no matter the more cynical take on such things normally found here.

My guy (who is 10 years older than your boyfriend / "believe it or not") said to me a few years ago ~ during one of our sweet & comfortable pillowtalk session ~ that " ... if we not be happy together, then I not be here ... ". I could tell from the tone of his voice that he meant every word of it, and we've not felt the necessity to talk about that particular complication ever again.

There's no doubt that financial considerations come into play in Thai/Farang relationships ~ what relationship doesn't ~ but it is far from the central concern, and that "furtherness" expands as the relationship deepens. In this, Thai guys are no different from you or me.

Cheers, chok dee, & thanks for saying many of these things better than I could . . .

Hmm it all sounds a bit tricky. Gay relationships were strange things, every-one my senior has this type of relationship and always with people way too young. So its expected in a way. Maybe its a generation thing, because now gay relationships are more widely accepted, so less L.A.T and more real relationship all round. L.A.T (living apart together) relationships always seem to be one who wants to play the field or is non committal or has their own agenda and the other who is very sad.
Though of course none of this has any-thing to do with ajarntrade just a thought.

[Aunty]

do you come from originally come from ajarntrade? Last week I saw in my local paper a photo of Princess (?) I just can't think of her name but she's one of King Bombipohl (sp) daughtersтАЩ who was on an official visit to New Zealand last week where she also visited some Universities, AgResearch and Thai students who come to study here. (We have a long standing arrangement with Thailand in this area). One of the things that struck me about her really rather nice photo was how conservatively dressed and her appearance was, (not dull - smart, tailored) but very conservative, very proper, almost school ma'mish. Given her standard of dress, and the position the Royal Family holds in Thailand I'm not surprised that at high school you are expected to wear a shirt and tie when you teach. And at 37C - well lol. Become a monk dude and just go along in saffron robes!

One of the things I've learnt in life is that when you expect people to behave in a certain way based on reputation or past experience they don't disappoint you and they won't change, because that's just the way people are. All you can do is have a strategy to deal with them, or you can do what evolution has equipped you to do. Move away.

Good luck in Mexico.

Oh have you thought about surgery to deal with your weight problem?

There's no doubt that financial considerations come into play in Thai/Farang relationships

Please don't lose sight of the fact that there are many, many Thai/farang relationships where the THAI partner comes from a more privileged background than the farang. You might not see it often in the Pattaya-sex-tourist-sex-expat circles, but you do in other circles. There are lots of middle and upper class Thai guys out there in relationships with farangs, so it would be a poor generalization to make that the Thai boy always depends economically on his farang.

Thank you, ajarntrade, for refreshing and from the heart writing about your boyfriend.

Whatever and whereever, I hope that things go well for both of you.

[Dodger]

Ajarntrade...

Thanks for sharing and I wish you the best as well.

Your perspective about HIM and the way you both seemingly structured your relationship sounds very mature. Sometimes I wish my relationship with Boy Special had some more meaningful substance wrapped around it - but, in all honesty, it doesn't.

He's 25...and still ALL BOY. He's spoiled rotten, moody as hell, expects to be pampered and knows how to get it. A lot like my X wife when I think about it. I can't say that I like the relationship because of the way I feel about ME when I'm in a room with him, because frankly, he's too damn young for me and I know it. I like being in a room with him because I'm in love with him and usually want to have sex with him. If he makes pretend that he loves me good enough, and he's no slouch at this, the better yet.

He's one of the fortunate ones who came from a financially secure family, with a mother (bitch of the North) who resides in Norway with her "well heeled" Viking husband. She sends him money when he needs it so the pressure is off me I suppose, although I still enjoy buying him things and send him a little money from time-to-time. We've been together for 4 1/2 years now and I guess I should be grateful that he's made certain concessions to help the longevity of our relationship along, e.g., left the dance stage (cabaret - not gogo) for a normal 9 to 5, stopped asking me to buy those God damned cell phones years ago, etc.,, etc. Now we have plans to tie the knot together. Does he really love me...who the hell knows, and frankly, who the hell cares. Life's too short to worry about these trivial points anyway.

Unlike you, I'm only a visitor to Thailand and have to go through the ordeal of leaving him twice a year, so I guess I'm used to it by now....well, not really...it always hurts. Sometimes I wish that he wouldn't pretend so damn good. Would I choose to visit another country in place of seeing him...not on your life. I like ME just the way things are.

I'll be returning in one week and I'm sure he's sharpening his skills. Good for him. Sharpen them well.

[Smiles]

There's no doubt that financial considerations come into play in Thai/Farang relationships
" ... so it would be a poor generalization to make that the Thai boy always depends economically on his farang ... "
But that was not my generalization ... or even close to it.

I was simply observing that ALL relationships have a financial aspect . . . and the corollary flowing from that is that very often that aspect is lop-sided in favour of one or the other.
In the case of a Farang consciously choosing to take as his relationship a 18-23 year old GoGo boy from Pattaya (or Bangkok or or or ... i.e. the type of "relationship" most discussed on this Board) the lop-sidedness is usually very dramatic, and creates by it's own dynamics a very high possibility for generating big problems in the future. It often ~ not always for sure ~ is the ultimate nail in the coffin for many of these love affairs.

But ... if both people in even this kind of relationship are very mature (even beyond their ages, if they're lucky), and have entered a space of mutual love and respect (and all that stuff) over a decently long time, then I believe it's quite possible to get beyond ~ psychologicallly ~ the financial mindgames which are often played out ... by both.


And yes, I don't doubt that there exist many relationships between a Thai and a Farang which do NOT fall into the type written mostly of on this Board.
Frankly I'd like to hear more about them from the folks involved, but that is for the most part NOT the types of relationships which interest the members here.
This Board is comprised to a very great extent of the GoGo circuit crowd (that is NOT meant as a putdown guys, and please don't read it as such) and the circumstances, fun times, stories of young/aged 'love', stories of great-bars-to-pick-up-handsome-young-Thai-boys, butterflyism etc etc etc which revolve around The Scene. More power to them!

You are correct though . . . those "other" stories of Thai/Farang love affairs unlike the usual stereotypical GoGoBar/Pattaya/Bangkok/Patong stamp are seldom told, or mentioned, here.
Too bad!

Cheers ...

Does he really love me...who the hell knows, and frankly, who the hell cares. Life's too short to worry about these trivial points anyway.


Well Dodger, times have changed. But I agree with you 100%.

Ajarn, isn't 60K bt high for a High School teacher? I ask because a friend is going to BKK to teach in January, and I've been helping him research his options.

Good luck in Mexico. It has nice...um...scenery.

Pete

Yes, 60K baht is high for teaching high school. But it is at one of the top Thai private High school in the whole country. They have graduated many former Prime Minsters and high ranking government officials. I was teaching in their EP, which is the English Program. Where 80% of the subjects are taught in English.

Tell your friend that if he works for anything less than 40K baht he's a sucker... or very unqualified.

ajarntrade

Well, he has a Masters Degree from Seattle University and a post Master's TEFL certification from the same U as well as a year in France as an English teacher. He is hopeful for at least 60k himself.

Thanks for the advice.

Pete

Pete, If your friend, who is coming, is looking for a teaching position that pays 60K I think he will have a long wait. I have been involved in the teaching of English in Thailand for 5 years now, both teaching and recruiting teachers. I have yet to hear of any job that paid 60K per month. Check out the jobs advertised on ajarn.com and you will get a feel for the range of pay available. 20K to 40K would be a much more realistic range to expect.

He is a frequent visitor to that site now. It looks as if 40k is standard for someone with his education and that 60k jobs are rare and exclusive to private schools and Universities. My friend has student loans and can't afford nor would take less than 40k per month. He would hope to supplement that with private lessons to reach a 60k per month level (or higher). Unrealistic?

I guess that ajarntrade found himself a very good deal. AJ, did you supplement your income in any way, or were you living the good life on 60k per month?

Pete

[wowpow]

Do I remember mention of a large one?

[Aunty]

have a PhD, and are a medical research scientist, but I've often thought about teaching English or science in Thailand. I wonder how much I should expect to earn?

have a PhD, and are a medical research scientist, but I've often thought about teaching English or science in Thailand. I wonder how much I should expect to earn?
I wouldn't bother attempting to teach English, Aunty. It is, surely, "I ... am a medical research scientist"? Or perhaps those sheep require everything to rhyme with "baaaaa"? As well, your second sentence should read "I wonder how much I would earn?" as "wonder" and "should expect" in that context mean the same thing

Homintern please feel free to edit all my posts as well, I am so lazy. I need tips on punctuation especially, mine is so creative.

[Aunty]

have a PhD, and are a medical research scientist, but I've often thought about teaching English or science in Thailand. I wonder how much I should expect to earn?
I wouldn't bother attempting to teach English, Aunty. It is, surely, "I ... am a medical research scientist"? Or perhaps those sheep require everything to rhyme with "baaaaa"? As well, your second sentence should read "I wonder how much I would earn?" as "wonder" and "should expect" in that context mean the same thing

You are such a bitter little loser homintern aren't you? It reeks from every word of every one of your jealous resentful posts. Bitter little loser. There is certainly no sunshine where you are, that's for sure. Just a sour streak longer than the Nile.

You have not impressed me one little bit since I started reading and posting to this forum. Well it's time to take out the trash and dump you with the rest of the garbage.

Yes, TeePee you are correct, I sold my Father's house ( He died last year ). It was in San Francisco and he bought it in 1970 for around $35,000 USD. I sold it for close to $750,000 USD. A sizable inheritance? I would say so. I rarely dipped into my savings while I lived here, though.

Pete1969, I'm sending you a PM.

ajarntrade

[GWMinUS]

Being a Farang looking in from the USA, 60 thousand per month seems like a pittance!
That is only US$18,000 per year.
Our poorly pay teachers here in New Mexico make about US$20,000.

Anyway, here is wishing a former San Franciscan a great time in OLD Mexico...