The expat community

[TOQ]

You will fit right in

The word community does not really apply, there are lots of little cliques but I never saw any evidence of a larger community.

[Khor tose]

If you see this, would you say it's difficult to get into a little group? It's always fun to have people to do things with, and not just sex things.

Why would that be any different here then it is anywhere else? Don't you play well with others?

[TOQ]

That's good to hear :idea:

How come you call yourself an old queen? I looked at the front page of your blog (I'll be reading later) and you don't seemed like a "tired" old queen, and the young man sitting next to you would stop me from becoming tired for a long time.

Actually its that younger man that makes me tired :)

john

[RichLB]

Your question and concerns seem to be valid to me. Let me try to give my take on a serious answer. I can't speak for Bangkok or the rest of Thailand, but I have lived here in Pattaya for 10 years so have some views about the "expat community."

For me, it took some time to develop friends here. Acquainances were easy, but friends more difficult. My problem, of course, was an internal one and not the nature of the other guys here. I came to realize it was unrealistic to expect new guys to match friends who had taken years to develop. On top of that, in my home country my relationships were shaped by my past - professional accomplishments, shared experiences growing up, the pop culture, etc. I discovered that the past is not particularly relevant here. That becomes a double edged sword. On the negative is that few seem to care or be impressed by who you have been - your past is less important here than who you are. On the positive side is that it is an opportunity to redefine yourself and free yourself from the expectations of others shaped by years of previous experience.

As to meeting people, it is not difficult. There are numerous formal groups catering to expats - athletic groups (pool leagues, drop in weekly drop in softball games, dart leagues, etc.), two large expat clubs with several special interest sub groups (sailing club, computer club, etc.), charity organizations always looking for volunteers, and then there's Dongtan Beach. I don't know about the social integration of gays and straights in your home community, but in Pattaya one's sexual orientation is a non-issue.

You'll also discover that the old demarcations you most probably used back home will disappear here (at least within the gay community). Amongst my friends I have everything from the filthy rich to those eeking out a living on social security checks. Financial status does not separate people here. You'll also discover that most of your new farang friends will be older than what you are most probably accustomed to back home. Frankly I miss the infusion of young guys (not for sex!) and their enthusiasm and fresh ideas, but have not found many here. Also recognize that many farang who settle here are actaully escaping unsatisfying social lives in their home countries. They bring with them the same poorly developed social skills that weren't particularly successful back home. You'll have to learn some tolerance.

But there are some real advantages to making friends here, too. We're all strangers in a strange land and that brings a commonality trying to sort through the conflicts between our home cuture and that found in Thailand. It's never difficult finding something to talk about. Then there's the whole bar/boy situation. Most of us have not been sexually sought after for several years (make that SEVERAL years) and sharing our wonder and delight at the rediscovery of sex with guys who would look through us if we were home. Again, it's a never ending openning for conversations. In addition, we all think we are experts on how to deal with Thailand, the boys, restaurants, mobile phones, varous mesage boards, etc. All it takes is a simple question to get an "informed" opinion and a conversation started.

that's most probably more input than you were looking for, but that's my view. I assumed you were talking about making other farang friends, though. Trust me, you will have no problem finding young Thai "friends". In fact, the problem may be quite the revers - having too many.

[x in pattaya]

For me, it took some time to develop friends here. Acquainances were easy, but friends more difficult.

Interesting observations on Pattaya and meeting people. I've had a home in Pattaya for about 10 years, but am just starting my third year of full-time residence.

I would say that most good friendships I have were those made in the past in school & work situations. Although they endure, they are now maintained largely by email and very very rare visits. In Pattaya I've made virtually no effort to develop new farang friendships beyond the casual acquaintance level.

Barriers to making new friends, assuming you really want them, include language, current interests and the social agenda of many of those with whom you might feel a kindred spirit.

Many of the farang here speak German or Russian, and I hear a fair amount of French, Italian and Scandanavian languages, especially during the tourist season. Many of them can manage functional English, but struggling to communicate becomes tedious for all involved. Even if you do connect with someone who is a native born speaker of English (or whatever your language is) if you have a long standing Thai friend, usually he will be unable to join in any conversation carried on in rapid-fire English and he may be understandably reluctant to spend that much time being bored silly in the company of other farang.

Amongst farang, if you have a common interest in some activity, like golf or fishing or charity work, etc. that should be the best way to meet potential friends, but a lot of the long timers, certainly amongst gays but probably true for single straights as well, seem to do all their socializing in bars. That's got to get mind-numbing pretty soon.

If you're so motivated, it's probably pretty easy to meet people here. Developing friendships on a level equal to those friends who you've known for many years back home is unlikely without a time consuming common interest. Maybe people who aren't afraid to spend time alone, or "alone" with a partner, adjust more readily to living in a foreign country. If you must constantly be surrounded by close friends, that's going to be a difficult goal to achieve quickly and/or you might end up seeking comaraderie of one sort or another in one kind of a bar or another which, over time, could lead to other problems.

Based on a lot of the "conversations" one reads on other message boards, like Thai Visa, a common bond seems to form among different people of the same nationality whose only mutual interest seems to be Thai or Thailand bashing. I guess it's a technique for consolidating a meaning for "us" by defining & belittling those who are "not us." And reading between the lines of some of these conversations, I'd say a lot of these people almost exclusively confine acquaintances/friends to other farang. If they have any meaningful contact with Thais it seems to be limited to a live-in partner and/or bar girls/boys.

I agree with x in pattaya 100%. If you want to limit your intellectual life to the level of discussion that the sort of Thai who takes up with a foreigner can comprehend and join then you will not have many Western friends of the kind you seek in Pattaya. I'm kinda guessing, based on the vocab you use in your posts, that that's not likely to be an attractive option for you? Am I right? Are you with me?

By the way I found a pretty neat way of blocking people's avatars if you find them annoying. If you have Adblock as an added extra on your browser then you can right-click on the image and get Adblock to add it to the list of banned images for you.

[catawampuscat]

RichLB is insightful and quite accurate in his assessment of the expat
community in Pattaya/Jomtien.
I am more narrow minded and have zero interest in the heterosexuals
and farang women and avoid expat clubs and such. Not that there is
anything wrong with straight people, I just have no interest in socializing
with them and hearing about 'how hot that girl is' and 'how much I want
to eat her pussy'..

Making friends is very easy and easily made friends are often a mistake.
Your new best friend of a few hours will often turn out to be a sociopath,
a chronic borrower, a compulsive liar, a braggart, a pedo, and a raging
bore.. Take it slow and easy with new friends and avoid those who really
want to get to know you and really like you after a few hours or less..

If you are a barfly and a boozer, the world is your oyster.. Only problem here is there are no pearls, just drunks who are the most boring of all farangs and most pathetic.
If you are a chain smoker, you will find plenty of others who light the next cigarette with the last one and live in a haze of tobacco smoke, but be prepared for coughing and the spewing forth of lung/mouth discharges.

Lonely men are often targets for the type of men who forget their wallets and leave you with the check, men who leave you with a bleeding ear from having it chewed for hours with the story of their lives or their opinions about other expats, Thais in general and endless other subjects that will leave you gripping your chair handles, thinking of reasons to flee with your life.. There are plenty of crazies here as well who babble at anyone unfortunate to be in their vicinity and the worse thing you can do is to be polite and nice as they will take it as an invitation and never leave. As soon as you smell something is wrong, pay you own bin (check) and flee..

The vast majority of expats are a great lot of guys and I am fortunate to have many gay men in my circle but I am always wary of the overly friendly new comer, the slobbering drunks, the desparate looking ones and those who speak very loud and bellow..
After a couple of years, your radar will work and you won't have to worry about the barflys, the sots, the bores and nutcases, unless they slip in under radar. Never tolerate them and just get up and move.. it works for me..
:cat:

[x in pattaya]

Making friends is very easy and easily made friends are often a mistake.
Your new best friend of a few hours will often turn out to be a sociopath,
a chronic borrower, a compulsive liar, a braggart, a pedo, and a raging
bore..

I was trying to say something akin to this , but you've summed it up far better than I. It's a bit like being wary of the "friendly" person who sits next to you on a long haul flight. Encouraging conversation pleasantries when you first get seated can lead to hours of torture if he/she/it has "fascinating" life experiences to share. At least on an airplane the suffering will end when you land. In a small community within a place like Pattaya you may find yourself dreaming of restraining orders & pepper spray.

In a small community within a place like Pattaya you may find yourself dreaming of restraining orders & pepper spray.Absolutely agree - couldn't say it better. However I also agree with x's previous comment that wherever you are, if you're going to try and include your Thai companion and insist that every conversation is understandable by him then you will have an intellectually sterile life - just look at his posts if you need proof of that! I decided a few months ago to abandon my plan of having a holiday home in Pattaya. The posts here by the usual Pattaya poster proved to me the disadvantages of living in such a place. (Proof that there is no Intelligent Design - the Pattaya Pensioners and Wesley).

[RichLB]

I tend to disagree about the availability of "intelligent life" in Pattaya. I think the distribution of bright, entertaining and intellecually involving people here is about the same as anywhere else. True, most vacatoners are more interested in what they came to Pattaya to find than they are sharing insights on the state of the world or psychological quirks. But, many who live here full time have moved beyond that (not everyone, but many). I do agree, however, that just like any place, you have to discriminate who you befriend and to whom you're merely tolerant and polite.

The points made above about integrating your future Thai friend with other farangs can be a problem. First and most important is that the Thai is rarely facile with the English language and will be left out of most of the subtleties of the conversations. I've found a solution when going out with farang friends and my Thai bf is to include another Thai so that the bf has someone to talk to. It's also a problem that a young man in his twenties is rarely interested in those things which spark the interest of a 60+ year old Westerner. Finding areas of commonality is tough. I find when socializing with a farang and his friend the interchange is either focussed on the young man or the Thai is largely ignored. Even if you learn Thai, it is doubtful your wit and ability to make a fun conversation will translate well.

And finally, a suggeston was made to make a parallel between the kinds of posts you read here and the kinds of people you will meet in person. I think this would yield a very invalid opinion about the nature of most expats living in Thailand. Most of the guys I've met here are charming (although not all highly interesting or involving), although a percentage of the posts I read here appear to be back biting and petty. In person, I have not encountered much of that. For some reason this particular message board has attracted the kinds of messages which might make you think we expats are not the kind of people you'd like to know. Check out the other boards and see the difference.

And, for goodness sake, come visit for an extended period of time before pulling up stakes and buring any bridges back home. From what I've read of your posts here, I think you'd love Pattaya and find a social group which would be fulfilling. But try it before you commit.

[jcowle]

Well said RichLB.
You can not judge all expats by this board, my experience has been good in the main.

JOHN

You can not judge all expats by this board, my experience has been good in the main.Are you saying that x in pattaya is as awful in real life as he comes across on SGT? That's not surprising. George is a completely self-absorbed bore in real life and that's how he comes across in his posts.

You will fit right in

The most perceptive post I have read on this forum for years.