Dodgers Trip Report Nov 2008

[Dodger]

Hi you maniacs.

Well, thanks to those idiots running around in Yellow Shirts my holiday got extended by 10 days. Thank you Yellow Shirts. I havenтАЩt the foggiest idea what you guys stand for or what it is youтАЩre trying to prove, but I love you guys and hope you can pull off the same stunt in April when I return, only next time, please seize the Chiang Mai and Phuket airports as well so thereтАЩs literally no way for a farang to escape. I was able to sneak out through Phuket just 10 days after my normal departure. So get your thinking caps on.

As some of you know from my previous babblings, Su and I, my X working lady boy тАУ X yaba addict тАУ maniac boy friend, united in a bonding ceremony this time last year and have had some bumps-in-the-road since. Since then, we were been able to work things out and just completed our first, record breaking holiday, where we did not have one single fightтАжa few piss-off sessions along the road тАУ but no fights.

This holiday was drastically different from all those in the past. I decided not to make the same mistake I made during the last holiday where I dragged Su back from his home in Si Saket to visit Pattaya. That was the undoing of our last holiday, as I failed to heed the advice of several friends including Cat from this forum.

I have visited SuтАЩs home village near Si Saket many times over the past 4 ┬╜ years, although the duration of my longest stay was 8 days. During this past holiday I lived in SuтАЩs home village the entire time, with the exception of just a few days I spent in PTY when I first arrived in country and another very brief return to taker care of some business at the Kashikorn Bank. Yes, I broke another personal record. Not only did I survive living in Isaan for nearly 2 ┬╜ months, I actually enjoyed it.

Before hopping the bus up to Si Saket when I first arrived, I sat at the Corner Bar in Sunee Plaza getting sloshed with a few farang friends - the whole time thinking about how much I missed HIM. I remember glancing across the soi at Euro Bar and remembered the first night I saw HIM. He was standing on the corner of the stage by himself just gazing around the room in a somewhat shy manner. His back was facing me at the time as I kept trying to make eye contact with him. Finally, after 10-15 minutes of frustration, he turned and gave me the strangest look. It wasnтАЩt one of those тАЬcome and get me looks,тАЭ or, тАЭI donтАЩt want you to come and get me looks.тАЭ Just a deep and focused stare, as if he was trying to see inside me. From that moment on our relationship went from short time flings - to living together full-time тАУ to making the decision to bond together and leave the bright lights of Pattaya behind us.


SuтАЩs parents met us at the Si Saket bus station at the wee hour of 4:00 AM with open arms and even a few tears. Then it was a bumpy 1 ┬╜ hour ride in his dads jalopy pick up truck to the small town of Kantharak which serves several surrounding farming villages include Ban Na where Su resides.

Ban Na, which is just a stones-throw from the Cambodian border, is a pretty typical Isaan farming village, although a little larger in size with about 400 homes. Su, who IтАЩll now refer to as тАЬTapeтАЭ which is the nick name given to him by his parents (and also the only name he is known by in the village), comes from a very large family all of whom have resided in the Ban Na village for many generations. His grandmother (who is in her early 90тАЩs) lives in a home which was built by her grandfather well over a century ago. Tapes mother and father both have 8 sisters and bothers, all of whom still reside in the village along with dozens of their children.

Tape is extremely close to his mother and never leaves her side when she working in the kitchen. His father, who I have become close friends with over the years, is a bit of a loaf when it comes to work and elects to have others do things for him when he gets the chance. ThereтАЩs no doubt that тАЬMomтАЭ is the real ruler of the family.

Also in Tapes immediate family are Pan and Ape who are aged 11 and 13. Both boys are Tapes nephews, although live with Tapes mom and dad when there parents are away working the fields. Both boys are real dolls and treat me as their step father. I have been bringing them gifts from the U.S. since they were ages 7 and 9, and they rarely leave my side when IтАЩm in town. Pan (13) is the quiet one who likes to read and figure things out, while Ape (11) is the wild one who always finds a way to get into mischief.

The village of Ban Na is just like a scene out of a Tarzan movie, with century-old dwellings built along an entanglement of dirt sois which were carved right out of the surrounding double canopy jungle. The style of the dwellings range from bamboo shacks with elephant grass roofs тАУ to the tradition Thai style dwellings where concrete and/or teak wood is used.

Tapes grandmother (on his mothers side) owns a large portion of the farm land surrounding Ban Na, and over time, has given each family member a portion of land to farm, as well as the land for the family dwellings. Before visiting this village for the first time, my impression was that 80% of the farm land is for rice тАУ which was consistent with my perception of all of Isaan, but not true. Of the thousands of rai of land surrounding Ban Na, only 20% is for farming rice. The remaining 80% is for growing and harvesting a broad range of crops including asparagus, garlic, chilies, banana, mango, papaya, as well as a host of herbs and spices.

Each family living in the village has obligations to work on multiple farms at different times in a very collaborative and interdependent manner. If two or three families own and farm chilies, then when itтАЩs chili harvest time, many other families join in to help with the harvest. They work on a master harvest plan collectively which is really nothing short of genius. The weather being their greatest variable which can alter harvest times is their greatest obstacle, although they have so much food growing around them that they would never starve regardless if they have a good or bad harvest period.

Almost every family in the village maintains a large garden. The rear of Tapes house looks like nothing more than a jungle with a bunch of weeds, that is, until I understood exactly what I was looking at. Besides the obvious coconut palms, mangos and banana trees, I really never thought about what it was that they were growing, but in actuality, and as profound as this was, there were no weeds. Everything they grow has a purpose somewhere down the line.

Tape knew that I had an interest in learning about these things and lacked no enthusiasm in showing me. We would take short walks nearly every day and he would show me something new: HeтАЩd pick up a bunch of what I thought were weeds and ask me to smell them. He told me it was Bai Toey Hom (Pandam) which is a fragrant herb used in many Thai dishes. Other things I classified as meaningless weeds were Pee Sae (Melinjo) which can be eaten raw or used in soup dishes. Then there was Sweet Basil, Lemon Grass, Chinese Chives, Phrik Thai (black pepper), Bai Karee (Curry Leaf), Phak Chee (Coriander), and a host of others IтАЩve forgotten. The trees above head were chuck-full of tamarinds which are used to put the тАЬsourтАЭ in that tom yon you eat. His mother also maintained a large chili patch just for home consumption.

Each day I was able to watch as Tape and his mom would pluck things from the jungle behind them and the garden near the house in preparation for dinner. Then IтАЩd sit with Tape in the open-air kitchen to watch him and his mother, and sometimes other women from the family who seemed to just appear, as they crushed these exotic herbs and spices using a mortar and pestle turning into some scrumptious meals.

Almost every family in the village has livestock including loads of chickens, roosters, ducks, water buffalos, cows, and they even maintain their own fish ponds which are typically built in the low producing areas of a rice paddy. Tape walked into bedroom one night with a bunch ofтАж here we go againтАж WEEDS in his hand, and tossed them under the bed. Thinking I was about to learn a bit about some superstitious element of this Buddhist environment, I just laughed and told him I didnтАЩt need anything special that night to keep me hard. Patiently, as he always is, he explained that these weeds were Citronella Grass which are used as a mosquito repellent. And all kidding aside, that stuff really works.

The more I learned about the life he came from тАУ the more I learned about him.

Other family members seemed to take joy in taking me around and showing me things. Pum, Tapes only surviving grandfather showed off his skills at crafting Isaan wind instruments out of bamboo and putty. My lesson started with the selection of bamboo to use as there are over 200 species of bamboo growing in Thailand. At the same time, he showed me how to determine which bamboo was good for eating, how to select the best tasting bamboo, how to cut just the right section of tender root, and then how to tap baby bamboo with a rock to determine the best candidates for use in musical instruments. Nueng, who is kind of a rebel in the family, and reminds me of Cain on the old Kung Fu series, who spent many afternoons showing around the various farm fields from the rear planks of his hauling tractor. He explained how the fields are irrigated, fertelized and how the harvest periods were determined, and all with a real sense of pride.

Most of our days started early around 6:30 AM with breakfast in his moms open-air kitchen. During previous trips I found eating to be the number one challenge as there are no farang food restaurants whatsoever in this part of Isaan. Using a little bit of Yankee ingenuity, I purchased a two-burner gas stove (table top model-1,300 baht) and stocked a supply of eggs, bacon, bread, orange juice and potatoes in his momтАЩs kitchen. Tape learned how to make a farang breakfast and enjoyed cooking this for me each day. Most of the adults would look at my plate of food and just scratch their heads, although Pan and Ape loved it.

During my stay, we had demolished the familyтАЩs original dwelling, which was no more than a 100 year old tin-roofed shack, in order to build a new house. This was a promise I made to them one year ago following our bonding ceremony. This added a lot of fun each day just watching how they go about building Thai style, as well as the excitement it seemed to drum up for the other neighboring villagers.

The home, which is a typical Thai/Isaan style home, with a few farang modifications I just couldnтАЩt resist, will be two levels when complete. The lower level is concrete and the upper level is teak wood. Combined living space will be approximately 1,600 sq. ft. (sorry, I just canтАЩt get comfortable with metrics). The roof we selected in composite clay tile and there will be larger than normal windows at my suggestion. The home was about 60% complete when I left and should be finished by mid-January. We were able to save a few bucks by hiring local village builders who also had rice and chili harvests going on at the time. We also lost almost three weeks of building due to those unseasonable monsoons which impacted the region. Tape will reside in the upper level, along with yours truly when IтАЩm there on holiday, and his parents will live on the bottom level.

In case anyoneтАЩs interested, you can build a nice single level Thai style home in Isaan for about 200,000 baht, and a larger two level home, like the one weтАЩre building for about 300,000 baht. Labor is cheap, as is the concrete, although wood in Thailand is considered expensive by their standards. Thai people measure, and refer to the size of a home by how many posts it has. Concrete posts are almost always used as the main supports and are spaced apart at 10 ft. intervals on the ground level. If you wanted to build a smaller home, letтАЩs say around 600 sq. ft., they would call this a Single Level 12 post home (3 rows of four posts spaced at 10 ft. intervals on one level). The home weтАЩre building, which considered fairly large, is a Double Level 15 post home (3 rows of five posts on each level)тАжor, 1,600 sq. ft. of living space.

I also purchased fishing gear this trip as a means of adding something new to my daily routines. Pan and Ape were my constant companions, as well as other boys from the village, many of which didnтАЩt have fishing poles but just came along for the fun. Usually all we caught weтАЩre these tiny silver fish which were no bigger than the bait I would use back home, but these are valuable assets for stocking the family fish ponds. I also had the use of Pums long boat, although it didnтАЩt have an outboard motor so getting to the deep water was tough.

Every Saturday was a 45 minute drive to the Khun Han Waterfalls. I have been to this place many times and mentioned it in previous trip reports. ItтАЩs a place where nature abounds and the boys who swim there, in many cases, donтАЩt feel the need for any clothing. Saturdays were the best for us because Pan and Ape were off school, and there always seemed to be others from Ban Na whoтАЩd show up there. The waterfalls are small, but offer a beautiful setting, complete with a series of warm water rapids which were refreshing to say the least. We always packed a picnic lunch as there are no concessions at Khun Han. Pum would use the school song teaw as there were usually 10 or 12 family members in tow.

Between the walks in the wilderness, cooking with Tape and Mom, watching the house building, fishing trips, and evening bon fires, there was also one more highlight of my tripтАжHIM.

IтАЩm not sure if it was the country air, the low-stress environmentтАжthe foodтАжthe starsтАжor what it was, but the sex and romance was better than I could have ever imagined. It seemed like the longer we were there the more I learned about the real himтАжthe more he learned about the real meтАжthe more we liked each other as friendsтАжand ultimately, the more passionate we became with each other. My bf transitioned from a high heeled тАУ sparkly dressed ladyboy in Pattaya, to a messy haired country boy complete with baggy blue jeans and dirt smudges on his face. He was truly adorable.

When Tape and I first heard the news about the Yellow Shirt seizure of Suvarabhumi Airport, we laughed so hard we nearly peed our pants, as we began setting plans for my extended stay. The last week leading up to that episode was getting progressively depressing тАУ and then all-of-a-sudden, we had another week together. We considered ourselves blessed.

That same night we sat on the front bamboo porch at his grandmotherтАЩs house just staring at the stars. It was the night where two rouge stars positioned themselves just under the moon to form a тАЬsmiley face.тАЭ It was as if the stars formed that way for us. We had just completed the longest time that we had ever been together without having any major disagreements or arguments. Conversely, we enjoyed each others company so much that I think it truly shocked both of us. All I could hear in the background was the sound of the neighborтАЩs bon fire crackling when I felt his hand reach out and touch mine. I turned to face him and found him looking at me. It wasnтАЩt one of those тАЬcome and get me looks,тАЭ and it wasnтАЩt one of those тАЬI donтАЩt want you to come and get me looks.тАЭ It was just that look again.



Mai pen rai

charming post.

These are the kinds of things I would like to see more of.

Bright, well written, and not the start of a bitch festt

[Bob]

Thanks, Dodger.....enjoyed much. Brought back some memories of visiting the Chiangmai bf's village (although I've never even stayed there overnight, always feeling the need to retreat back to a Chiangrai hotel with a warm shower and semi-modern toilet...hehe). I hope things go well for you, Tape, and the extended clan in the future.

[bing]

Hmmm, Just want you to know that I will be looking into the eyes of my Thai friends in the future. It seems I have not developed the talent to differentiate the different types of look from the guys on the poduim. It seem to me they are looking and smiling at me as a possible mobile ATM.
It is OK cause I am looking at them as an open book that I hope to read at my leasure. I very much enjoyed your latest saga.

[anakot]

Good one Dodger

Hope the next trip is even better.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

[zinzone]

Yup, this is well written and deserves to be praised.

Hopefully others can learn to post reports at a similar high standard.

Yup, this is well written and deserves to be praised.

Yes it's Dodger , the best to read on this forum.


Hopefully others can learn to post reports at a similar high standard.

Uch , not me !

Beautifully written.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see some photos aswell.

Please??

[catawampuscat]

Most of us farangs are dense and lose track of reason and reality when the love/lust bug
bites us. Most farangs, imho, make the same mistakes over and over and somehow
believe the results of their repeated mistakes will end differently. Most farangs do not
learn and I include myself among the fools who purchase too many mobiles, too much
gold, even land in the name of love/lust. I haven't bought a house yet..
Hope springs eternal and this boy is different and this time it is real and so on and so on...

I applaud Dodger for learning from his mistakes and making the changes necessary for
his relationship to have a chance of working..
The temptations of places likes Pattaya, where the party never ends, relatively big money is available
as well as alcohol, drugs, and sex, are too much to resist for many of the boys from small
villages where everyone goes to bed early and wake up with the sun for a day of hard work.

Many foolish farangs think that they are being generous giving these boys far more money then they need and showering them with gifts and promises of eternal love and money. Many of the boys live communally and if one has a farang who buys them a dozen shirts, all of the boys
friends will end up with one of the shirts. The same goes with money and the excess is soon spent on partying, booze, girls, drugs. The mindset is that the foolish farang will cough up more baht as they are so lovesick and weakwilled, they cannot resist the pleas for more baht. It usually works and the party goes on..

This is not to say that all or even most Thai boys behave like this but it is unfair to take a poor boy out of his
poor village and give him lots of money and material things and expect him to open a savings account and save for his old age.
Dodger seems to have found his answer and I am glad if any input from me was helpful.
Actually, I have a good friend who knows Dodger far better and it was his idea that bringing
the boy to Sunee was doomed to disaster as he knew the temptations that would lie ahead. :cat:

[PeterUK]

An excellent read, Dodger, well-observed, humorous, honest and warm-hearted. I recall you saying that you spoke very little Thai. That must have been a big drawback at times. Did you rely on your miming skills and on Su/Tape as a translator or did necessity force you to learn some Thai?

Excellent post, some food for thought for the rest of us living in LOS

A good read, as always, Dodger - interesting, amusing and, at times, not a little perplexing!


....the same goes with money and the excess is soon spent on partying, booze, girls, drugs... This is not to say that all or even most Thai boys behave like this

Then why the hell did you just say it??

[krobbie]

A great read as ever. Warmth, humour, and truth. Who couldn't read this and enjoy.

I bet you can't wait to get back to see the house finished.

Cheers
krobbie

[Aunty]

Oh that's just beautiful, darling. I've have a little damp patch for you, I really do!

And because you've made me feel so wonderful here's a little reminder of your special night! You see, even the heavens were smiling!
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/Aunties_photos/dscf0952-small.jpg
It was a conjunction between the Moon, Venus and Jupiter, but hey let's not break the special mood. It won't happen again for another five years, and in the States it was seen as a frown! You see, you were in the right place at the right time!

[Brad the Impala]

Good post, nice story, Dodger looks like he is close to settling down.

If only Bob, who spends the nights in Chiangrai while spending the days in his bf's village in Chiang Mai, had as clear a sense of the world.

[Dodger]

I'd like to thank you all for your nice comments.

To answer a few questions:

PeterUK:
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback.

No, I still haven't mastered the Thai language, although make it a practice to write down and memorize 15-20 new words and/or phrases each time I'm in country which has really helped. I can communicate in very basic sentences enough to get by, although had to rely on Tapes help in understanding what others were saying. In eastern Isaan they speak with a very heavy Khmer dialect, much different from the most commonly spoken "Bangkok Thai" making it almost imposible for me to understand. As a side-note, one of the teachers at Pan and Apes school gave me a a Thai/Engish school book as a gift which has the words printed on the front cover..."for children 9-12 years old" (maybe there was a hidden meaning there...LOL). I found this little paperback to be a more effective learning tool than evan the $250 Rosetta Stone series.

Andybkk
Thank you as well for your nice comments.

Most of the pictures I took during this last adventure include Tape, his friends, and his family members, thus the reason I would not post then on a public forum. I would love to post a few shots from places like the Khun Han Waterfalls, but there are a few of our members who couldn't handle the vision of a naked young boy without going into cardiac arrest.

I just spoke with Tape on the phone a short while ago. He informed me that the upper level of the new house (his domain) is nearly complete, and his excitement was reverberating through the handset. This will mark the first time that he's ever really lived in a "house," as his previous dwelling, where he has resided his entire life, was nothing more than the typical tin-roof shack, with no windows - no hung nam - no furniture - no nothing. Just walls comprised of old and tattered planks of wood exposing cracks large enough for a blue jay to fly through.

I just described those living conditions for a reason. If anyone reading this is of the mind-set that building a home for a Thai boy, regardless of the level of relationship or long-term plans, is a mistake, than think twice. What on earth could be a more valuable gift for someone you care about who's living in these conditions ? Over 90% of the boys you meet and befriend on the working scene come from this very same environment.


mai pen rai

[Hmmm]

Seeing a new "Dodger's Trip Report" on logging in is pretty much guaranteed to be a great read, although one can never predict what it will contain. Dodger epitomizes "live life to the fullest", as well as ...
- often more drama than the most outrageous Thai soap opera
- a willingness to share more of his adventures than most of us (especially when not all of it is personally flattering)
- a revolving door of boy specials, only recently halted
- home movies gone horribly (and hilariously) wrong
- holidays re-lived by breathing through used boy underpants
- some tragedy (Nu)
- descriptions of idyllic lost worlds of naked boys frolicking beneath waterfalls, unseen by white man's eyes until now (has anyone else been googling "Khun Han Waterfalls" ?).

2 1/2 months in an Isaan village ? Gosh, I don't know if I could manage that. The most I've managed is a few days in the bf's village, and that involves sleeping at the local hotel. It's not that I don't like Isaan - I do. It's just that my overall impression of Isaan life is of endless days sitting around talking, cooking, or sleeping, while waiting for the rice to grow. It does sound like there was a lot going on while you were there Dodger, with the building etc. It will be interesting to hear how you find it once all the activity quietens down.

Chok dee for the future.

I go along with the housing price estimate. A very decent house can be built for 300,000 baht, less than the cost of a new car.

I would love to post a few shots from places like the Khun Han Waterfalls, but there are a few of our members who couldn't handle the vision of a naked young boy without going into cardiac arrest.

Hardly surprising, Dodger, as 11 and 13 year old boys swimming and playing "au naturel" in public, in front of adults and most especially in front of an openly gay farang man who has given them presents and bestowed largesse on their family is not "naturel" at all, and no customary for Thais - you may not have had a cardiac arrest or unsuitable thoughts, but maybe a couple of Speedos may be an appropriate present next time.

[Bob]

Hardly surprising, Dodger, as 11 and 13 year old boys swimming and playing "au naturel" in public, in front of adults and most especially in front of an openly gay farang man who has given them presents and bestowed largesse on their family is not "naturel" at all, and no customary for Thais - you may not have had a cardiac arrest or unsuitable thoughts, but maybe a couple of Speedos may be an appropriate present next time.

For Christ's sake, GF, attempting to turn something that indeed is natural and customary in the rural areas into something inappropriate? Get a life and/or apply a filter to your brain.

For Christ's sake, Bob, I was not the one who brought up the point, in jest or not; customary for young children, yes, but not at puberty (13).

I am not implying anything about Dodger apart possibly from naivety - far from it, as I doubt if the possible consequences of what could have happened if photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys were found in a gay man's camera/possession by US Customs ever crossed his mind.

Somehow I doubt if "inappropriate" would be the word that would appear in any ensuing publicity, given the current witch-burning-without-trial attitude to the "P-word". Get a grip on reality, unpleasant though it may be.

[Bob]

GF, maybe you can explain the significance of the phrase "especially in front of an openly gay farang man?" That fact somehow alter in your mind the significance of a rather mundane and natural event?

I didn't take your post to be humorous but, if that's what was intended, forget what I said.

Bob,

The significance is that anyone viewing such photos would almost certainly find it significant. As I have explained, but you seem unable or unwilling to understand, it is not what is in my mind (or Dodger's) on this subject that would matter.

My post was not intended to be humorous - I was referring to Dodger's "cardiac arrest" comment, which I presume was.

If you think this is so "natural" then I suggest that next time you go back to the US from Thailand you scatter some photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys in your baggage for US or Thai Customs to find; maybe after a night or two with "Bubba" in the holding cells you may not find it quite so "mundane" and dismiss it so lightly.

[bao-bao]

A belated thank you for yet another interesting read, Dodger... I'd saved it until I got back home so I had enough time to read it without hurrying through it.

As has already been said there's never any knowing what tone or direction any of your stories will take, but I enjoy them all.

Thanks! :cheers:

[Dodger]

Bob,

GoneFishing is just doing what he is best at...Fishing.

GoneFishing,

You have drawn a perception (or pretended to) that the naked boys I was referring to included Pan and Ape, the 11 and 13 y/o boys in Tapes family, and in fact I wasn't. I never even mentioned the ages of the boys who were swimming naked at Khun Han, but again, your twisted and warped mind only envisioned Pan and Ape. That's a facinating phenomenom. Maybe you could explain to us just how you do that.

For other members who may be interested in real facts:

Boys swimmimg in the buff in the rurals of Thailand is common-place and just as natural to them as is bathing naked outdoors. The Thais who live in these rural villages are used to seeing each other naked as an integral part of their lifestyles. Bathing consists of standing behind their homes next to a 50 gallon clay pot and pouring buckets of cool water on their heads. The young kids typically bath in the early morning hours before school, and the elders bath in the early or mid afternoons. I watched 4 guys who were helping with the building of Tapes house as they walked to the rear of Tapes property, tossed off their clothes and started dumping buckets of water on each others heads. What surprised me the most was the fact that they were in full view of Tapes Mom and Dad who were preparing dinner, Pan, who was playing with a stack of lumber, and yours truly. No one batted an eye...except me, as one of them was hung like a thoroughbred race horse. Oh, well, it's my western upbringing, what can I say.

IMO, this is reason why the boys who do enter the working circuit appear at such ease when taking their clothes off in front of others. The naked part just doesn't effect them the way it effects most of us.

Rarely, if ever, do the older boys swim naked if there's a female around, although the young kids could care less, and no one else does either. I've taken dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han, but, as stated in my original post, I would never post them on this forum...GoneFishing has just emphasized the reason why.

[jimnbkk]

Dodger said:

"IMO, this is reason why the boys who do enter the working circuit appear at such ease when taking their clothes off in front of others. The naked part just doesn't effect them the way it effects most of us. "


My experience is limited to boys in the bedroom. But, they're always modest to the extreme when they're with me. They come out of the shower with a towel wrapped around them, and climb into bed with the wet towel still there. They always put on their undies with a towel around them. Is my experience unique? Are they so ashamed of being seen with me that they're hiding themselves even from me?

[TrongpaiExpat]

Dodger, I am surprised that people were washing naked - in all the places I've been to in Thailand, both men and women wear a sarong when bathing in the open and wash underneath it in a very modest way.

Yes, Fatman, my observations also. Unless they are very young and then I noticed that the older kids and adults trying to teach the young ones how to bath w/a sarong and get dressed under a towel. One spirited 5 year old did not quite see the point and runs around nude being chased by the older caregiver children and corrected in his unabashed and more logical approach of taking a bath and getting dressed.

The only place where I have observed open nude bathing is in Bali.

Even in the gay saunas you hardly see any nudity from the Thais. Some even go so far as to keeping underwear on under the towel. I work out in a gym and all the Thais get dressed under a towel and the only swingin dicks you see are attached to farangs. Some Thais even go in a private shower enclosure with their gym trunks on to take a shower. If they do display a bit of nudity, it's a come-on for something more.

[Dodger]

Fatman and Trongpai,

I agree with your statements, as the middle-aged and older Thais routinely use sarongs when bathing outdoors. They them hang the sarong on a tree limb or bamboo pole when washing the bottom half of their bodies.

When Thais are out in the general public (with farangs) they are usually discreet when it comes to showing their bodies, unless of course they're doing this to earn money, but when Thais are with Thais in their own environment, they do what's natural to them. I never even witnessed them bathing outdoors until I was in the village so long that I was like a piece of the wood work, and the sarongs started getting tosssed on the tree limb, much in the same manner as the boy who wears a tightly wrapped towel as he leaves a shower - versus - the way he leaves the shower after you've lived with him for a while.

IMO...they don't have that stigma attached to nudity that we have in the West, regardless of how they are perceived through most farang eyes.

[Bob]

I'm with both sides on this one. It's rather funny in a way to see the natural shyness of Thais in such places as your own hotel bedroom or while dressing in a sauna (kinda wierd when you think of their profession and all). On the other hand, it's not at all unusual to see kids (even in their teens) bathing or swimming naked in the sticks by a waterfall or in some rural pond. I've seen it in Chiangmai province, Issan, and also in Laos. Not that big of deal to them nor to me.

[TrongpaiExpat]

IMO...they don't have that stigma attached to nudity that we have in the West, regardless of how they are perceived through most farang eyes.

It seems to me that your confusing Western values with the moral crusaders of the the American Christian Right. In Europe nudity at beaches, saunas, parks and in the home is common. In USA some of that crosses over with some segregated nude recreation but in Thailand there are no nude beaches and no recreation, segregated or not.

I really think that your Isaan family is just an lovely wonderful exception rather than the rule.

Dodger,

I originally wrote that your post was "A good read, as always, Dodger - interesting, amusing and, at times, not a little perplexing!" as I thought that would cover all the bases; I could have written that your interpretation of some aspects, particularly in later posts, were little short of delusional, but I could see neither the need nor the point.

To answer you first point ("You have drawn a perception (or pretended to) that the naked boys I was referring to included Pan and Ape, the 11 and 13 y/o boys in Tapes family, and in fact I wasn't. I never even mentioned the ages of the boys who were swimming naked at Khun Han, but again, your twisted and warped mind only envisioned Pan and Ape. That's a facinating phenomenom. Maybe you could explain to us just how you do that."):

I did not "draw a perception" (whatever that means) at all. I based it entirely on your original post which, although not specific, appears pretty clear: "Every Saturday was a 45 minute drive to the Khun Han Waterfalls. I have been to this place many times and mentioned it in previous trip reports. ItтАЩs a place where nature abounds and the boys who swim there, in many cases, donтАЩt feel the need for any clothing. Saturdays were the best for us because Pan and Ape were off school, and there always seemed to be others from Ban Na whoтАЩd show up there." The "dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han" would be enough to have you arrested for possession of child pornography; I doubt if the US or Thai Customs, or anyone else if they were to see your photos, would really care whether they were of "Pan and Ape" or not, and neither do I. I made it very clear that I was "not implying anything about Dodger apart possibly from naivety" - since you cannot understand this, and instead accuse me of having a "twisted and warped mind" clearly I should have added stupidity to that, as you refuse to see the possible ramifications of your holiday snaps.

While your "report" of the village itself, the houses, crops, farming, etc, is typical of any such by a visitor to an Isaan village, some aspects of your follow-up posts make it look as if not just Tape but his family and even the entire village behave and think in a way which, to many, can at best be described as atypical of Thais and some of your conclusions are toally unfounded. A few examples:

"The Thais who live in these rural villages are used to seeing each other naked as an integral part of their lifestyles". Crap. There is nothing more worth saying on this subject.

"Each family living in the village has obligations to work on multiple farms at different times in a very collaborative and interdependent manner. If two or three families own and farm chilies, then when itтАЩs chili harvest time, many other families join in to help with the harvest. They work on a master harvest plan collectively which is really nothing short of genius. " As has already been pointed out, this is not a question of "obligation" , "a master harvest plan" or "genius". It is paid labour, no more and no less.

"With Tape, in his obvious position as a ladyboyтАж.. Within the family and village, he is viewed as being a "girl", and I am viewed as a guy in their eyes." Under no circumstances would those who knew him best see him as a "girl" - this is an entirely Western perception which is totally alien and incomprehensible to Thais. He would be seen for what he is - an effeminate gay man; not a girl / woman of the second type, as he has (so I believe) not had any bits added or removed, although he would be categorized as one if he did, and never, under any circumstances, as a"girl". Similarly, you would not be perceived, at least primarily, as "a guy": first and foremost you are a Farang, secondly you are Tape's boyfriend/provider, and a long way last, if it is considered at all, are you "a guy".

Dodger, I enjoy your "reports", but none of us are infallible or all knowing (including me); to accuse me of having a "twisted and warped mind" simply because I pointed out the possible ramifications of your holiday snaps, while making it very clear that I was not maligning you in any way, was as unnecessary as it was short-sighted and stupid.

As far as your various interpretations and conclusions go, I think X in Pattaya summed them up best:"Interesting observations, but they probably say as much about the observer as the observed."

[Hmmm]

I really think that your Isaan family is just an lovely wonderful exception rather than the rule.

I too struggled to reconcile Dodger's reports on the attitude to nudity with anything I had seen or heard in my bf's Isaan village, or anything I've ever read about Thai life ... anywhere.

Perhaps Tape's village is a lost tribe of Thai naturalists.

Well, as I've said, I honestly enjoy reading Dodger's posts but sometimes it is a bit like reading The Da Vinci Code: enjoyable, even thought provoking, keeps your attention and makes you wonder what's coming next, based on genuine people, places and events, some of which you may even recognize, but with conclusions unique to the author!

The last time he took things so personally was when he claimed that "there's a 70% probability that your Thai boyfriend is on Yaba ..... 70% may even be a conservation estimate in a 'hot bed' like PTY" and I disagreed with him! ( http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 99-45.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/yaba-and-the-boys-you-love-t13799-45.html) ). Ho hum .......

[Dodger]

Curious Wrote:


I thought his writing about the parents accepting that their children worked in the sex industry to be complete bollocks also based on my experience

Curious...Another fact that you may find hard to digest is that some parents (in this sometimes not-so-wonderful Kingdom of ours), actually sell their children directly into the sex industry flat-out for cash-in-hand. Then there's other parents who actually move from their village to live near their son(s) or daughter(s) so they can be closer to the money. I met two mothers, both of whom stay in looms within walking distance of Soi Sunee to be closer to their sons who work in gogo bars.

Not only are most Thai families aware of the nature of the WORK, but they accept this as well in exchange for the money they receive from their children during the process. Thais are not naive, nor are they as ignorant to their surroundings as some farangs seem to suggest...as evidenced by the comment you just made.

There's a very tough under-core to this country...not all sparkles and glimmer.


GoneFishing Wrote:


Dodger, I enjoy your "reports", but none of us are infallible or all knowing (including me); to accuse me of having a "twisted and warped mind" simply because I pointed out the possible ramifications of your holiday snaps,[

GF...I made the comment about you being twisted and warped because I felt that your insinuations were twisted and warped, and as they say...if the shoe fits.

In my post I made a statement that Khun Han was a place which I have spoke about in past trip reports, where nature abounds and the boys sometimes swim naked. Simple as that. From that comment, you derived that Pan and Ape, who are Tapes 11 and 13 y/o family members, were swimming nude during the day of our family picnic, which, in fact, they were not, and even went are far as to suggest that I put them in speedos the next time I take pictures, which I took as I direct insult.

Furthermore, the comment I made about not wanting to post pictues of places like Khun Han on the forum was aimed directly at people like YOU. A person who would react to a scene where young children are swimming in the nude the way that you did, are the same class of people who view children as sex objects, thus the reason that I referered to you as being twisted and warped.

I just want to make sure that there's no confusion here.

Dodger,

it would appear that reading and basic comprehension were some of the subjects you missed out on by leaving school early. What you now say you wrote is not what you actually wrote:

You did not say "Khun Han was a place which I have spoke about in past trip reports, where nature abounds and the boys sometimes swim naked. Simple as that", nor was there any mention of "the day of our family picnic" - on the contrary, you were very clear that "Every Saturday was a 45 minute drive to the Khun Han Waterfalls. ... the boys who swim there, in many cases, donтАЩt feel the need for any clothing. Saturdays were the best for us because Pan and Ape were off school". If your memory is failing, try re-reading your original post.

I had thought that by saying that I was "not implying anything about Dodger apart possibly from naivety", even after you wrote that you had taken "dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han" I could hardly have made it clearer that I was not making any "insinuations" and was giving you the benefit of any possible doubt that anyone may have had. Obviously I was wrong and I have struck a very raw nerve.

Your reaction "to a scene where young children are swimming in the nude" was to photograph it. My reaction was to point out, and subsequently to clarify my meaning beyond any doubt, that photographs of such a "scene" as well as your "dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han" would legally be classified as child pornography - the same reaction that US or Thai customs would have had if they had seen them. Your defending yourself by claiming that I or they or the press or any one objecting to or even daring to point out the possible consequences of taking such photos "are the same class of people who view children as sex objects" and it is they (and I) who are "twisted and warped" while you are totally innocent would be unlikely to hold up in court (to use an apt expression). While I saw no reason not to put it down to naivety and stupidity (particularly the latter, in the light of your recent posts) others may not be so generous ... "and as they say...if the shoe fits.."

I just want to make sure that there's no confusion here.

dodger you have such a greta way with words. your story is touching and it is nice to read something on this board that proves that thai and foriegn relationships can work and can work outside of the dirty cities. i wish you and your boyfriend all the luck in the new year!

[francois]

Actually I have seen postcards for sale in Thailand of boys "tout nu" frolicking in the waters.

Oh please! One shouldn't have to watch every word that closely. I did not scrutinize every word or try to read into it something that was not there but I read it with what I hope the spirit that it was written in. Loosen up guys we are all vicitms of the mass hysteria that is sweeping the news lately but we don't need to turn on each other. Dodger has repeatedly shown himself to be a good person as well as a good story teller.

[Khor tose]

Oh please! One shouldn't have to watch every word that closely. I did not scrutinize every word or try to read into it something that was not there but I read it with what I hope the spirit that it was written in. Loosen up guys we are all vicitms of the mass hysteria that is sweeping the news lately but we don't need to turn on each other. Dodger has repeatedly shown himself to be a good person as well as a good story teller.

GF, I find myself in complete agreement with Luvthai. When I read Dodger's stories I not only read the words, but I read to get a sense of the writer. In Dodger's case this is not hard as he seem to me to be very open, honest, and "up-front" kind of guy. When you come right down to it, only our senses, instincts, and history are all we ever have to go by in judging people. Well all my instincts and the senses I get from his writing tell me this is a good man and there is nothing suspicious here. I just hope he shrugs off comments that bother him and keeps writting. I have enjoyed all of his contributions.

Curious...Another fact that you may find hard to digest is that some parents (in this sometimes not-so-wonderful Kingdom of ours), actually sell their children directly into the sex industry flat-out for cash-in-hand. Then there's other parents who actually move from their village to live near their son(s) or daughter(s) so they can be closer to the money. I met two mothers, both of whom stay in looms within walking distance of Soi Sunee to be closer to their sons who work in gogo bars.I am sure we could all find examples of what you write but I do not believe that it is generally true - say 90%+ of the time. You are picking up isolated examples and generalizing from them. And please don't include me in your "wonderful Kingdom of ours" phrases. I'm an American and proud of it. I have no time for kings, we got rid of those over 200 years ago. If all of us were in Mao's China and not Bhumibon's Thailand I'm quite sure we would all know to call the local hero-worship for what it is.

[anakot]

Oh please! One shouldn't have to watch every word that closely. I did not scrutinize every word or try to read into it something that was not there but I read it with what I hope the spirit that it was written in. Loosen up guys we are all vicitms of the mass hysteria that is sweeping the news lately but we don't need to turn on each other. Dodger has repeatedly shown himself to be a good person as well as a good story teller.

Agree wholeheartedly with Luvthai and Khor Tose

Keep up the good work Dodger. Can't wait for the next instalment

Have a Happy New Year

Well all my instincts and the senses I get from his writing tell me this is a good man and there is nothing suspicious here.

Khor Tose, Luvthai, Anakot, etc

I never said there was anything suspicious here, nor did I read anything into it - I actually said the exact opposite and repeated it for Dodger's benefit and for those incapable of reading anything but the previous post (as you appear to have done).

To save you the trouble of checking what I actually wrote, rather than what I am said to have written:

"I am not implying anything about Dodger apart possibly from naivety - far from it, as I doubt if the possible consequences of what could have happened if photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys were found in a gay man's camera/possession by US Customs ever crossed his mind."

"The "dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han" would be enough to have you arrested for possession of child pornography; I doubt if the US or Thai Customs, or anyone else if they were to see your photos, would really care whether they were of "Pan and Ape" or not, and neither do I."

Like Dodger and Bob, you appear to see nothing out of place or untoward about an openly gay man taking such photos and to be confident that Thai and US Customs share your views. Maybe you are right, and I am raising a warning note unnecessarily - I don't know. If you are so confident then maybe you would follow my suggestion to Bob and let us know afterwards (assuming you can) if you are still of the same view:

"I suggest that next time you go back to the US from Thailand you scatter some photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys in your baggage for US or Thai Customs to find; maybe after a night or two with "Bubba" in the holding cells you may not find it quite so "mundane" and dismiss it so lightly."

I have accused nobody of anything, either directly or by allegation or insinuation, of anything more than naivety, neither have I "insulted" or "judged" anyone. I, on the other hand, have been accused of having a "warped and twisted mind" for simply raising what I see as no more than a valid warning to anyone, irrespective of whether they are a "good man" or not, to think of the consequences of their actions and to apply some common sense accordingly. That, at least here, would appear to be asking the impossible.



When I read Dodger's stories I not only read the words, but I read to get a sense of the writer. In Dodger's case this is not hard as he seem to me to be very open, honest, and "up-front" kind of guy.

Khor tose

I quite agree with you, and I also enjoy Dodger's posts - that does not, however, make his posts either accurate or insightful - if you want to see a total distortion of the facts and a blind refusal to accept or even look at an alternative view (from the UN, not me!) look no further than http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 99-45.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/yaba-and-the-boys-you-love-t13799-45.html) for a prime example - and if anyone is thinking of accusing me of similar traits, make sure you have the examples at hand!



I just want to make sure that there's no confusion here.

[Khor tose]

[quote="Khor tose":35p1gkmp]"I am not implying anything about Dodger apart possibly from naivety - far from it, as I doubt if the possible consequences of what could have happened if photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys were found in a gay man's camera/possession by US Customs ever crossed his mind."

"The "dozens of great snap shots of boys swimming and playing in the nude at places like Khun Han" would be enough to have you arrested for possession of child pornography; I doubt if the US or Thai Customs, or anyone else if they were to see your photos, would really care whether they were of "Pan and Ape" or not, and neither do I."

Like Dodger and Bob, you appear to see nothing out of place or untoward about an openly gay man taking such photos and to be confident that Thai and US Customs share your views. Maybe you are right, and I am raising a warning note unnecessarily - I don't know. If you are so confident then maybe you would follow my suggestion to Bob and let us know afterwards (assuming you can) if you are still of the same view:

"I suggest that next time you go back to the US from Thailand you scatter some photos of naked 11 and 13 year old boys in your baggage for US or Thai Customs to find; maybe after a night or two with "Bubba" in the holding cells you may not find it quite so "mundane" and dismiss it so lightly."

[quote="Khor tose":35p1gkmp]When I read Dodger's stories I not only read the words, but I read to get a sense of the writer. In Dodger's case this is not hard as he seem to me to be very open, honest, and "up-front" kind of guy.
Khor tose[/quote:35p1gkmp][/quote:35p1gkmp]

Sorry GF, I do not agree. US Customs is not looking for pictures of your BF's younger relatives swimming naked in a pond. They are not fanatics, nor are they stupid, and they do have a good understanding of American law and what it takes to convict. If I had gone with my BF to his village, and part of the trip had village boys swiimming naked I would probably take that picture myself. If for not other reason then I have nostalgic memories of being a little boy and swimming naked with friends in some of the rivers where I grew up. This is not what US Customs is looking for and would identify as child porn. If I were asked I would say these were some very young cute male relatives of my BF enjoying themselves on a hot day, and that would be the end of it. What US Customs looks for and sadly finds, is pictures downloaded from a porn site with little boys in sexual poses or engaged in sex, often with the owner of the camera. I personally find it very annoying to have my camera and computer looked at, but I do understand the necessity. As long as men travel overseas to have sex with children, and as long as the men who like little boys hide in and are tolerated by many in the gay community we are going to have to undergo this inconvenience. However, that is all it is, an inconvenience. US Customs does not go out of their way to hire homophobes or moral fanatics, and many of the officers are highly trained, know their job, and do it quite well. Everyone I know, straight or gay, would not find anything obscene in a bunch of little boys enjoying themselves by swimming naked, but when you bring it up and exaggerate it, (however good your intention are, and I do believe they are good intentions) then its gives a smell to what otherwise was a great story.

[francois]

[quote="Gone Fishing":253lcatw][quote="Khor tose":253lcatw]"[color=darkblue]
US Customs does not go out of their way to hire homophobes or moral fanatics, and many of the officers are highly trained, know their job, and do it quite well. .[/quote:253lcatw][/quote:253lcatw]
Do not agree with you about that Khortose! To me US Customs are the worst of the worst. Would not bring anything through US Customs that even hinted at gay or anything related to minors however innocent. Although I do agree that Dodger's report was charming.

[jimnbkk]

My suitcase has (had) a strap around it so I could identify it quickly on the retrieval belt at the airport. Good idea, but it's a rainbow belt which apparently identifies me as gay to the TSA inspectors. The reason I say this is because my TSA lock on the suitcase almost always gets 'lost' when I leave Dulles Airport. I have lost at least 4 of them. Well, at least four of them have been missing when I arrive at my destination. (I don't think anything's ever missing from inside the bag). I am going to stop using the rainbow strap for a while and see if that helps keep my TSA locks on the bag. Be an interesting experiment.

Well all my instincts and the senses I get from his writing tell me this is a good man and there is nothing suspicious here.Does that come from your extensive experience of psychology? Did you use your psychology background to train the US Customs officers about whom you write so lovingly?

[Hmmm]

US Customs is not looking for pictures of your BF's younger relatives swimming naked in a pond. They are not fanatics, nor are they stupid, and they do have a good understanding of American law and what it takes to convict. If I had gone with my BF to his village, and part of the trip had village boys swiimming naked I would probably take that picture myself. If for not other reason then I have nostalgic memories of being a little boy and swimming naked with friends in some of the rivers where I grew up. This is not what US Customs is looking for and would identify as child porn. If I were asked I would say these were some very young cute male relatives of my BF enjoying themselves on a hot day, and that would be the end of it.

Your assertions reminded me of a case I read about several years ago, where US customs arrested a man before he even boarded the plane to Thailand - under a new sex tourism prevention law - on the basis of photos of shirtless boys in his luggage, which led to a search of his home, which led to ...

"A search of his luggage revealed photos of shirtless Asian boys, prescription drugs to enhance sexual performance, condoms and large amounts of candy, said Special Agent Catherine Miller of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. None of the seized items is illegal, but a search of a computer at SchirraтАЩs home revealed images of child pornography, Miller said. "
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... irra06.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/06/BAschirra06.DTL)

[Khor tose]

Well all my instincts and the senses I get from his writing tell me this is a good man and there is nothing suspicious here.Does that come from your extensive experience of psychology? Did you use your psychology background to train the US Customs officers about whom you write so lovingly?

Oh come on now Geoff talk about the sentence that really sets you off. "As long as men travel overseas to have sex with children, and as long as the men who like little boys hide in and are tolerated by many in the gay community we are going to have to undergo this inconvenience."

[quote="Khor tose":2t0qme3e]Well all my instincts and the senses I get from his writing tell me this is a good man and there is nothing suspicious here.Does that come from your extensive experience of psychology? Did you use your psychology background to train the US Customs officers about whom you write so lovingly?Oh come on now Geoff talk about the sentence that really sets you off. "As long as men travel overseas to have sex with children, and as long as the men who like little boys hide in and are tolerated by many in the gay community we are going to have to undergo this inconvenience."[/quote:2t0qme3e]I'd have to say I haven't any idea what you're talking about. I didn't read the sentence you quote (again so lovingly). Do you often quote yourself (I assume it is something you wrote)? I guess that's a symptom of your own inadequacies. As another poster wrote of you, your close association with psychology can only have come from being the subject of treatmnt that clearly has not worked.

Khor tose in his profile states that his occupation is "Government worker".
Be careful of this guy.
He keeps touting his knowledge of psychology and of its "scientific accuracy" while forgetting that not too many years ago psychologists listed homosexuality as a disease and were telling people that "self abuse" (masturbation) was a leading cause of insanity.
This isn't science, this is witchcraft.
But I suspect that Khor tose is far more dangerous than any witch could ever be. I suspect he has the full power of the American government behind him and those who get involved with him do so at their own peril.

This isn't science, this is witchcraft.Khor tose believes that Buddhist monks are pedophiles because they must promise to be celibate just like Catholic priests.

[Khor tose]

This isn't science, this is witchcraft.Khor tose believes that Buddhist monks are pedophiles because they must promise to be celibate just like Catholic priests.

Come on Geoff is that the best you can do? Just calling names and distorting what other people say. It must be terrible hard to be you homi, living with the knowledge that most of the world condemns and desipes your actions..

Come on Geoff is that the best you can do? Just calling names and distorting what other people say. It must be terrible hard to be you homi, living with the knowledge that most of the world condemns and desipes your actions..Are you still suffering those delusions of adequacy?

[Dodger]

Well, sooner or later this squabbling amongst members was inevitable, as this seems to be the norm on our Board, regardless of the topic or subject matter.

I guess I place Custom Officials in the same category as the rest of us, and thatтАЩs pretty fucked up. I donтАЩt mean that on a personal levelтАжjust trying to describe the way I see people in general when dealing with the masses.

IтАЩm sure there are some custom agents out there who are very mature and well-balanced, who perform their duties as professionals. Those would be the agents who would view photos of young children swimming naked in a remote lake, as innocent and natural as it is, and not give it a second thought. Then IтАЩm sure there are a few immature and imbalanced guys who slip into this line of work, who would start blowing their whistles at photos like this, just in an effort to get attention. Just as we have members of this very forum who belong to both of these categories. Some are immature and imbalanced and try to blow their whistles loudly in an effort to gain attention (even if itтАЩs negative attention), and of course, we have the mature and well-balanced members on the other end of the spectrum

PhotoтАЩs of naked young children, or for that matter, photos of any naked person, regardless of his/hers age, are not illegal in my country, nor are they illegal in Thailand. It doesnтАЩt matter if itтАЩs an 11 y/o naked boy weтАЩre talking about тАУ or a 73 y/o grandma sitting naked on her porch eating a banana. Being naked is not against the law тАУ nor is the photo. Now, if the photo of the 11 y/o boy showed him posed in a sexual position, for instance with a hard-onтАжthat would be considered pornography, and of course, illegal. The same holds true for the photo of the 73 y/o grandma, if she were depicted with the banana stuck up her snatch.

I think its fare to say, that just about every farang with a brain in his head understands that taking photos of naked people, regardless of their age, in, or out of Thailand, is not wise. Not because itтАЩs illegal, because itтАЩs not, just because of those immature and/or imbalanced guys I described earlier. ItтАЩs just not worth the hassle. On the same line, itтАЩs not really wise for a farang to discuss taking photos of naked people, regardless of their age, on a public forum like this. Not because thatтАЩs illegal either, just becauseтАжyes, here we go again,тАжwe have those immature and/or imbalanced people in the mix.

So, having babbled all of that, I guess IтАЩm guilty of being тАЬunwiseтАЭ for even mentioning the term тАЬnaked young boysтАЭ in my post. Hell, maybe this whole thing was my fault. Well, if thatтАЩs the case, then let me start by saying that IтАЩm not the least bit sorryтАж555. I think IтАЩm just going to continue just being myselfтАжsaying whatever it is that I want to sayтАжand not giving a fuck who likes it.

As I write these words, IтАЩm sitting in my home office staring at one of my favorite photoтАЩs which I snapped several years back at a waterfall very similar to those at Khun Han. Centered in the photo is a boy with knock-your-socks-off good looks standing completely naked at the base of the waterfall. I guess heтАЩs somewhere around 16 or 17 years old, with shoulder-length jet-black hair, a slim and perfectly defined body, and silhouetted by a rainbow which miraculously appeared during my photo shoot. Just breathtaking (to me anyway). I guess I now find myself asking: Would someone out there consider this photo to be illegal ? Then, I hear my inner voice telling me: Who gives a fuck.


Mai pen rai

Not because thatтАЩs illegal either, just becauseтАжyes, here we go again,тАжwe have those immature and/or imbalanced people in the mix.A sad commentary on the genie of Political Correctness that is perverting our society. I am paid obscene amounts of money by my employer to have contrarian opinions so I guess I am less moved by arguments such as "how do you feel about being in a despised minority?" by the Thought Police representatives here but even my employer tries to ring-fence the areas where contrarian opinions are "acceptable" and otherwise.

[joe552]

Not because thatтАЩs illegal either, just becauseтАжyes, here we go again,тАжwe have those immature and/or imbalanced people in the mix.A sad commentary on the genie of Political Correctness that is perverting our society. I am paid obscene amounts of money by my employer to have contrarian opinions so I guess I am less moved by arguments such as "how do you feel about being in a despised minority?" by the Thought Police representatives here but even my employer tries to ring-fence the areas where contrarian opinions are "acceptable" and otherwise.

Now I'm fascinated. The mention of obscene amounts of money does that to me, I'm afraid. Without giving too much away, Curious, can you fill in a blank or two? Contrarian opionions - you're paid to disagree?

[anakot]

Do tell
Curious kills the cat, satisfacts brings it back to life again... Well you know what I mean :drunken: give or take a G&T

Of course, as Dodger's history proves, its not Customs you need to worry about seeing your trip pictures, its your own family! :ho:

Thanks for the post Dodger. I needed the pick-me-up.

[bao-bao]

Well, sooner or later this squabbling amongst members was inevitable, as this seems to be the norm on our Board, regardless of the topic or subject matter.

Abso-damned-lutely, Dodger.

I think it was Smiles who once posted how three pages was the maximum for any topic before it derailed. Sometimes it takes an interesting turn, but not often!

You pile enough people on, and....

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z56/khunbaobao/W-Oversized-Load.jpg

[Beachlover]

The same holds true for the photo of the 73 y/o grandma, if she were depicted with the banana stuck up her snatch.

lol... just lovely, Dodger.

[adman5000]

A great write as usual. I always learn something from your stories. In this story, it was a reminder for me to continue learning about how the Thai people live to better understand how they act. Thank you.