Flight cancelled. How about these alternatives....

My flight is cancelled, thanks to PAD.

Can fly to Singapore really cheap.

How's the gay scene in Malaysia?

Alternatively, I could do:
LHR==>Singapore then a short bus ride to Kuala Lumpur, then Air Asia to Phnom Penh & a train ride all the way back to Singapore, via Thailand.

Phnom Penh was on my original schedule in any case, so the only reason not to do it is if Malaysia is a superb tourist & gay friendly destination (which I sort of doubt).

Seeing as the leader of the Opposition was jailed for 10 years for gay behaviour, I would tread carefully in Malaysia.

There are flights from Phuket to Singapore so they must be going the other way. Then there is a shuttle bus to Bangkok

David

Seeing as the leader of the Opposition was jailed for 10 years for gay behaviour, I would tread carefully in Malaysia.

Let me add the following to that statement of Dek Wat's above: As if you were walking on razor sharp pieces of broken glass, or six inch nails.

If anybody tells you any different to the above, don't believe them, because as far as I am concerned, I would consider as better alternatives to Malaysia, going cruising in either downtown Tehran, or the mountain area of Kandahar.

I don't know why you don't use, if you are flying to Singapore, options that would be open to you from there to still be able to get to Thailand. However, If you do decide to go to Pnom Phen instead, you should take the time, that is if you have enough of it, to make a trip to Sihanoukville, which is only a little over 200km South of Pnom Phen and down on the coast.

If because of my comments above you decide to go to Kandahar instead, let me know and although I can't give you a telephone number for him, I can give you the cave number of Muhib Habibi, who is a very good friend of mine. I am sure that his being a member of the Taliban, will not concern you in the slightest. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk216/ThaiRakThai/Wink.gif

Choc dee to you z909 and wherever you decide to go, I hope that you end up having a great trip.


Cheers,



George.

Seeing as the leader of the Opposition was jailed for 10 years for gay behaviour, I would tread carefully in Malaysia.

Let me add the following to that statement of Dek Wat's above: As if you were walking on razor sharp pieces of broken glass, or six inch nails.
George.

Thanks for the advice.
Utopia has a slightly more optimistic view of matters. How do you know it's that bad on the ground?

At the very least you need to consider Muslim attitudes to homosexuality. Malaysia is strongly Muslim.

[gumblebee]

As understand it, as was the case in the former Ottoman Empire, Malaysia has different rules (and different courts to apply them) for different religions for certain matters, mostly of morality, family law, inheritance. They ask for your religion on their immigration form, I guess this must be why. I understand the Malaysian laws against homosexuality are part of the islamic rules, and don't apply to Chinese or Christians ; hence the fairly open existence of gay bars in Kuala Lumpur. That said there are reports of brutal police raids etc., so some discretion is advisable, but I've nonetheless very fond memories of Malaysia.

The gay scene in KL as I remember it, is completely different from Thailand (due to the need for discretion, it's hard to find long-time partners ; I hardly know of a commercial scene in Malaysia).

In mostly Chinese Singapore, homosexuality is illegal for everybody, though gay life there is quite vibrant also (Singapore is just a few hours by bus from Kuala Lumpur). I saw quite a few ladyboys looking for customers near my hotel in Singapore (I only found out in the taxi that my budget hotel in Geylang area was actually in the red light district :bigsmurf: ).

Another odd fact : Malaysia with about 60% Muslims is officially an Islamic state ; Indonesia with over 90% Muslims is officially multireligious.

At the very least you need to consider Muslim attitudes to homosexuality. Malaysia is strongly Muslim.

I was being a little bit facetious Z909 in my earlier post, which I am sure you would have realised by my having perhaps exaggerated just a tad in what I said. I will also be honest with you and say that I am bias in my views about Malaysia as it is one of my least favourite places in the world to visit and I have only traveled there in later years on business, when I have had no other choice but to do so.

Having admitted to my bias, I would like to follow on once again from the comments of Dek Wat above, by showing you below some extracts from Time magazine Asia, of an interview that was conducted with Abdul Kadir who was head of education and research in 2001 at Malaysia's Islamic Affairs Department. Although this interview is seven years old now, I can assure you that the views of todays morality police that still operate in Malaysia, have not changed in the slightest since then.

You could be excused for thinking at first that it is a script from a Monty Python sketch, as some of the things Kadir comes out with, are in my opinion absolutely hilarious, that is until it sinks in and you realise, that he is being deadly serious in every single word he says. Take a look for yourself and you will discover, that you will probably first find yourself as I did, looking at what he says as funny, but I will be surprised if at the end of reading it, you will look on what he says as a long way from being anything like funny and believe it to be very scary instead.


Cheers,


George.



Officer Abdul Kadir Che Kob describes homosexuals as "shameless people" and homosexuality as a crime and a"sin worse than murder."

Abdul Kadir is head of education and research at Malaysia's Islamic Affairs Department, which operates as the morality police with 50 enforcement officers across the country. These officers are empowered to arrest Muslims -- including unmarried couples, homosexuals, transvestites and transsexuals -- suspected of breaking Islamic laws. Last year, 111 men were arrested in Kuala Lumpur for "attempting to commit homosexual acts."

Abdul Kadir spoke recently to TIME contributor Mageswary Ramakrishnan. Excerpts:

TIME: How does Islam perceive homosexuality?
Abdul Kadir: Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam. It is a crime worse than murder.

TIME: What do you think of homosexuals?
Abdul Kadir: They are shameless people.

TIME: Can it be wrong for two people to be in love?
Abdul Kadir: Love? How can men have sex with men? God did not make them this way. This is all Western influence -- and the gay people expect us to be open- minded?

TIME: Your department made 111 arrests in Kuala Lumpur last year compared with 165 in 1998 and 166 in 1997. Is this an indication that the number of gays is decreasing?
Abdul Kadir: No, I don't think so. Perhaps they have become smarter in avoiding us. Maybe the department received fewer complaints. We only act based on complaints. It is difficult to act otherwise. How would we know what is happening? We don't know what is happening behind closed doors.

TIME: What do you do when you receive a tip-off?
Abdul Kadir: Usually people give us precise information like where these men are. We then go to the place, say, a hotel room. We knock and force them to open the door, but they are usually fully clothed by then. We still charge them for attempting to commit homosexual acts.

TIME: What about those who say that people have a right to choose who they want to be with?
Abdul Kadir: What right are you talking about? This is a sin, end of story.

TIME: What about gay women?
Abdul Kadir: We have never arrested lesbian women. There are no complaints, maybe because it is difficult to gauge who is a lesbian.

TIME: What happens when gay men are arrested?
Abdul Kadir: We charge them in court, but before that we put them through what we call Islamic counseling sessions. They recite the Koran everyday and we will tell them they have committed a grave sin.

TIME: Do these people change?
Abdul Kadir: It is difficult to make them change; it has to come from within. I know there is very little effect. Out of 100 people, only one will change.

TIME: If your approach is not working, then why not abandon it?
Abdul Kadir: No, we have to tell these people they are doing something very wrong in the eyes of Allah [God]. It is a major sin. Gay people think being gay is a fashion.

TIME: Malaysia has three major ethnic groups -- Malays, Chinese and Indians. Is homosexuality more prevalent in some groups than others?
Abdul Kadir: It is prevalent among the Malays, I have to admit.

TIME: If homosexuality is just a fashion, why do you think so many Malay men are willing to risk arrest by your department?
Abdul Kadir: Like I said, this is a Western influence. They also operate very smoothly. Even if we know they are gay, we cannot arrest them unless we receive information about them.

This is a timely post. I have no doubt that it is completely true. The very fact that a Moral Police group exists should be sufficient warning.

These same people want the Age of Consent to be 25. How ridiculous is this?

The views held by these Muslims is no different to a great many others - illogical and ignorant. One needs never to forget that this religion never underwent a Renaissance such as the Xian one did. They hold views that were once prevalent in England in Medieval times. And it's a cop-out to blame the West of course. For pity's sake, the attitude toward gays in the West is still very ignorant though somewhat improved in the last 20 years.

[Beachlover]

I heard it's bad... but not so bad.

Apparently you just have to approach it differently. There is a thriving gay community in Malaysia but it is kept discreet. As long as you are not Muslim and as long as you don't piss people off, you are ok.

www.gayboythailand.com (http://www.gayboythailand.com) is in Malaysia right now... stuck there.

That's all very well. There's a thriving gay community in every country and many members are discrete. I am only making the point that in Muslim countries, "crimes" are punished in ways we find odious.

That's all very well. There's a thriving gay community in every country and many members are discrete. I am only making the point that in Muslim countries, "crimes" are punished in ways we find odious.

Yea, they stink as well. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk216/ThaiRakThai/happy011-1.gif

Sorry Dek Wat, just applying a principle from a certain movie, in an attempt on my behalf, to lighten things up in this thread. You all know the one.

You know what they say,
that some things in life are bad,
and can really make you mad.
other things just make you swear and curse,
so when you are chewing on life's grissel,
don't grumble give a whistle,
and this will help things turn out for the best................... And always look on the bright side of life da da da da da da da dum, etc etc etc


Cheers,


George

I would add Hong Kong to the list of places not to bother with if you are looking for a gay scene in Asia. This business of keeping life under wraps and tip toeing around pretending is just not a holiday. In Hong Kong its worse because the gays are a frigid bunch who only like Asians (small dick syndrome) so on top of being discreet or closet you are left with a miserable scene that is also not very welcoming. Not worth the effort. Unlike Japan which is tricky to navigate but interesting too, Hong Kong is just not that fabulously interesting, even the shopping is better in Bangkok.

On the subject Malaysia is a great place to visit. So even if you have to be careful in Malaysia there is also plenty plenty else to do and see, also some great Island trips some are also very pink indeed even Singaporeans gays flood the place. What gays you do come across in Malaysia will mostly be delighted to make your acquaintance and show you your way around. Though there is also the risk of raids which might see you spending a few nights in jail.

[anakot]

Hong Kong has a wonderful gay scene. Welcoming pleasant sexy men who can speak reasonable English mostly.You can have the most wonderful time here. You have to find your niche. This may take a bit of time but once found can be fantastic. Oh and the other thing there is hardly any 'attitude' and being older does not cut you out. Dont listen to the small dick bullshit as it is just that.

By the way the airport never gets closed down by a bunch of rat bags.

[vnman]

My flight is cancelled, thanks to PAD.

Can fly to Singapore really cheap.

How's the gay scene in Malaysia?

Alternatively, I could do:
LHR==>Singapore then a short bus ride to Kuala Lumpur, then Air Asia to Phnom Penh & a train ride all the way back to Singapore, via Thailand.

Phnom Penh was on my original schedule in any case, so the only reason not to do it is if Malaysia is a superb tourist & gay friendly destination (which I sort of doubt).

Gayboythailand.com has some interesting stories/info on Malaysia. Phnom Penh is by any means much worse than Malaysia could ever be.

[Aunty]

I would add Hong Kong to the list of places not to bother with if you are looking for a gay scene in Asia. This business of keeping life under wraps and tip toeing around pretending is just not a holiday. In Hong Kong its worse because the gays are a frigid bunch who only like Asians (small dick syndrome) so on top of being discreet or closet you are left with a miserable scene that is also not very welcoming. Not worth the effort. Unlike Japan which is tricky to navigate but interesting too, Hong Kong is just not that fabulously interesting, even the shopping is better in Bangkok.

On the subject Malaysia is a great place to visit. So even if you have to be careful in Malaysia there is also plenty plenty else to do and see, also some great Island trips some are also very pink indeed even Singaporeans gays flood the place. What gays you do come across in Malaysia will mostly be delighted to make your acquaintance and show you your way around. Though there is also the risk of raids which might see you spending a few nights in jail.

Cedric, you're probably to young to have had a need for a visit, but what do your older gay friends and acquaintances tell you about the fabled boy brothels of China, many of which are just across the border from you in Shenzen? Are they too, the boys there, strictly sticky noodles?

[fedssocr]

In what way is Phnom Penh worse than Malaysia? Certainly Cambodia is a poor country, but Phnom Penh has a lot of expats and frankly has a very interesting buzz. There are a few gay venues that appear to face little/no discrimination. The people are very sweet. PP is worth a couple of days' visit. The south coast is interesting if you are a beach type person. There are some sites to see like Bokor Mountain near Kampot. I spent a few days in Kep which has a bunch of abandoned villas, lots of fresh crab, and some interesting small islands good for a relaxing day at the beach.

And of course Angkor is amazing. If you haven't been there it is definitely worth a visit. I think Cambodia is a decent option at this point with the uncertainty in Thailand. And the young men there are gorgeous. The tough life tends to age people fairly quickly though I think.

Laos is also worth a visit. I enjoyed several days in Luang Prabang and could have stayed longer. And there are flights between Luang Prabang and Chiang Mai.

But if you get to Singapore you can easily get a flight to Phuket or Samui.

The south coast is interesting if you are a beach type person. There are some sites to see like Bokor Mountain near Kampot. I spent a few days in Kep which has a bunch of abandoned villas, lots of fresh crab, and some interesting small islands good for a relaxing day at the beach.

And of course Angkor is amazing. If you haven't been there it is definitely worth a visit. I think Cambodia is a decent option at this point with the uncertainty in Thailand. And the young men there are gorgeous. The tough life tends to age people fairly quickly though I think.

Laos is also worth a visit. I enjoyed several days in Luang Prabang and could have stayed longer.

I couldn't agree with you more in all of your comments above fedssocr, especially those on Luang Prabang. It always amazes me that the large majority of farang who visit Laos from Thailand, never venture any further than Vientienne, before going back over the border again into Thailand.

I realise that the sole reason for many of them being there, is because of the fact that they are on a visa run, but it's a pity more don't take the time as they are already in Laos, to travel a little further afield to Luang Prabang and Vien Viang, as although both of these places have obvious French influences, they are totally different from Vientienne. I have never regretted having done so and have returned to both places, many times. Oh well, Mai Bpen Rai as they say hey? http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk216/ThaiRakThai/shrug-2.gif

Cheers,


George.

[allieb]

At the very least you need to consider Muslim attitudes to homosexuality. Malaysia is strongly Muslim.

They love it really but condem it in public