Ocean 1 and VT 6

[lonelywombat]

Several friends this time last year made enquiries about purchasing a condo close to Jomtien beach

They are returning in december and asked had any comment been posted on the expected date of delivery

This Ocean 1 website showing live webcam images, seems to show no progress in almost 12 months

http://www.ocean1tower.com/#home

As there were several frequent posters this forum, that were very gushing about Ocean 1 , maybe they can bring us up to date. Has building stopped?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

You need to be privy to the terrifying negotiating skills needed when dealing with Thai authorities and the enormous amount of time it takes for bureaucracy to move in Thailand.

One needs the patience of a saint or the determination and skills of the superb Ocean 1 German entrepreneur who is a skilled as any in finally gaining the required approval for the project to go forward.

Don't listen to gossip on the beach from those who don't know the in and outs of getting such an ambitious project off the ground. It will go up and will take ages as it is, a very very tall building.

The very fact that the owners have provided webcams to view the project is testament to their honesty. Those who were sensible enough to have purchased Ocean 1 Tower apartments have already doubled their money as the evironmental report that was only recently approved, and is the reason for delays..but that approval has aready doubled the price of the land , undeveloped, if not tripled.

These same guys did build the entire Tallay View conglomerate which has been a huge success and was a far bigger project.

[Up2U]

"evironmental report that was only recently approved, and is the reason for delays".....The environmental report, plans and building permits were approved last December (2007). The building site activity is not related to construction of Ocean 1 but is used for concrete prep for View Talay 7-8. View Talay 1-3, 5,6-8 projects are not part of Ocean 1 Tower or the "Tallay View conglomerate". Is it possible to build a project of this size and complexity in the current economic environment?

I thought this an interesting piece of information. The lucky owners are up for THB6,600 a month on top of the cost of ownership (ie. interest on borrowings paid or interest income foregone*). Reading between the lines this is only the start - http://viewtalay.info/Budget2008/ . Does anyone know the 2009 budget?

Based on a typical THB4 million price tag, either I could pay interest on a mortgage or receive interest income at, let's say, 7%. So my outgoings or forgone income is ~ THB23,400 a month - total ownership outgoings are THB30,000 (23.4 + 6.6) a month. According to the site I could rent a condo in the same complex for THB21,000 a month. I'm sure one of the owners will assure us that capital appreciation exceeds THB7,000 a month making it all very worthwhile :bounce:

[Sen Yai]

I thought this an interesting piece of information. The lucky owners are up for THB6,600 a month on top of the cost of ownership .............:

Really? I think either you or they are confusing monthly operational costs with annual maintenance charges.

I thought this an interesting piece of information. The lucky owners are up for THB6,600 a month on top of the cost of ownership .............:Really? I think either you or they are confusing monthly operational costs with annual maintenance charges.Quite correct

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"evironmental report that was only recently approved, and is the reason for delays".....The environmental report, plans and building permits were approved last December (2007). The building site activity is not related to construction of Ocean 1 but is used for concrete prep for View Talay 7-8. View Talay 1-3, 5,6-8 projects are not part of Ocean 1 Tower or the "Tallay View conglomerate". Is it possible to build a project of this size and complexity in the current economic environment?

no the whole world is going to grind to halt and all activity stop in it's tracks.

the answer is..yes.

everyone else is going ahead with their projects around the world and in Thailand..for some reason Ocean 1 Tower seems to be picked on by the gay community !.

ps : "approval" and actually receiving the papers aren't always the same thing.

[lonelywombat]

everyone else is going ahead with their projects around the world and in Thailand..for some reason Ocean 1 Tower seems to be picked on by the gay community !.



No but the gay community was given a big overdose of promotion by several posters who were obviously on a big spotters commission. If you want I will go back and bump those posts and ask what is their opinions now

Let me tell you that many people if not burnt are relieved they waited.

I thought this an interesting piece of information. The lucky owners are up for THB6,600 a month on top of the cost of ownership (ie. interest on borrowings paid or interest income foregone*). Reading between the lines this is only the start - http://viewtalay.info/Budget2008/ . Does anyone know the 2009 budget?



I must say if I was Colin Smallman I would be quite embarrassed about putting my name on the internet to such a poor quality spreadsheet. If the guy is proposing to pay 5000baht a month for a stationary office, and produce a profit which is lost, i would not have much confidence.

And before anyone queries my use of the name Colin, it is there published on the web for all to see.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

everyone else is going ahead with their projects around the world and in Thailand..for some reason Ocean 1 Tower seems to be picked on by the gay community !.



No but the gay community was given a big overdose of promotion by several posters who were obviously on a big spotters commission. If you want I will go back and bump those posts and ask what is their opinions now

Let me tell you that many people if not burnt are relieved they waited.

do tell..who was on a 'spotters fee" and what were they spotting ?

who was "burnt" and how ? ( being mindful of Thailand's libel laws of course)..and why are they relieved they waited ? ( what were they waiting for ?)

I don't find it odd that anyone selling anything would target the gay community..seeing there are so many who visit Pattaya.

it's all very mysterious. :scratch:

[Up2U]

"evironmental report that was only recently approved, and is the reason for delays".....The environmental report, plans and building permits were approved last December (2007). The building site activity is not related to construction of Ocean 1 but is used for concrete prep for View Talay 7-8. View Talay 1-3, 5,6-8 projects are not part of Ocean 1 Tower or the "Tallay View conglomerate". Is it possible to build a project of this size and complexity in the current economic environment?

no the whole world is going to grind to halt and all activity stop in it's tracks.

the answer is..yes.

everyone else is going ahead with their projects around the world and in Thailand..for some reason Ocean 1 Tower seems to be picked on by the gay community !.

ps : "approval" and actually receiving the papers aren't always the same thing.

Looks like papers were received long ago. From the Ocean Tower 1 website, "We received formal approval in writing from the EIA and the plans were submitted to the Pattaya City Hall, and the building permit was given. As you are aware, crucial and costly tests of the capacity of the sub surface have been completed which will save considerable time."

There has been speculation about this project on ThaiVisa which of course is just that (speculation). It would be interesting if someone who has a contract for this project could answer the questions, What is your project contract completion date? and Why hasn't construction started?

You need to be privy to ..... .....It will go up and will take ages as it is, a very very tall building......Those who were sensible enough to have purchased Ocean 1 Tower apartments have already doubled their money ..... that approval has aready doubled the price of the land , undeveloped, if not tripled......These same guys did build the entire Tallay View

Out to Lunch,

Where exactly have you got your figures for the doubling of the value of the apartments from? There is nothing I can find to indicate that any actual sales prices (Baht per sqm) have made double the purchase price - the only increases I can find are the sales prices asked by the developers, which is no indication of any increase in value.

Similarly, what exactly do you base the doubling/triplng of the value of the land on?

According to the Ocean 1 official website, the construction company is still K Tech Construction (who filed for bankruptcy in the Central Bankruptcy Court in April this year, and who have no experience in high-rise building construction having primarily been involved in building hotels and shopping malls), and the completion date is unchanged (2010).

In May, when I queried your figures and showed that you were wrong by a factor of 10 in one case and 20 in another you replied:


oh yes I see the figures you are talking about but the answer is-do the bloody work yourself. I haven't got time to bother with a f**wit like you and spend an eternity going back and forth while you argue the toss about bugger all.

Can you do any better this time ??

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":13svgeg8]You need to be privy to ..... .....It will go up and will take ages as it is, a very very tall building......Those who were sensible enough to have purchased Ocean 1 Tower apartments have already doubled their money ..... that approval has aready doubled the price of the land , undeveloped, if not tripled......These same guys did build the entire Tallay View

Out to Lunch,

Where exactly have you got your figures for the doubling of the value of the apartments from? There is nothing I can find to indicate that any actual sales prices (Baht per sqm) have made double the purchase price - the only increases I can find are the sales prices asked by the developers, which is no indication of any increase in value.

Similarly, what exactly do you base the doubling/triplng of the value of the land on?

According to the Ocean 1 official website, the construction company is still K Tech Construction (who filed for bankruptcy in the Central Bankruptcy Court in April this year, and who have no experience in high-rise building construction having primarily been involved in building hotels and shopping malls), and the completion date is unchanged (2010).

In May, when I queried your figures and showed that you were wrong by a factor of 10 in one case and 20 in another you replied:


oh yes I see the figures you are talking about but the answer is-do the bloody work yourself. I haven't got time to bother with a f**wit like you and spend an eternity going back and forth while you argue the toss about bugger all.

Can you do any better this time ??[/quote:13svgeg8]

why don't you refer your queries to the developer..I'm sure they would be happy to answer you.

[Brad the Impala]

Those who were sensible enough to have purchased Ocean 1 Tower apartments have already doubled their money ..... that approval has aready doubled the price of the land , undeveloped, if not tripled. ...................

why don't you refer your queries to the developer..I'm sure they would be happy to answer you.

This suggests that your only source for this "information" about doubling and trebling of money/values is ...............the developer! They just might have a tiny vested interest don't you think? Did they take you out to Lunch?

the construction company is still K Tech Construction (who filed for bankruptcy in the Central Bankruptcy Court in April this year, and who have no experience in high-rise building construction having primarily been involved in building hotels and shopping malls

Actually this is not true. Before they were declared bankrupt, and under the management of the now-deceased founder, they built many condominiums as contractors for property developers. One of them was The Legend in Saladaeng Bangkok, and there are others too.

Agreed, fatts, but I was referring specifically to "high-rise" - the Legend is only 14 stories, and I believe the others are similar, which hardly gives them much experience when it comes to "a very very tall building" of 91 stories.

And, Out to Lunch, I hardly think the developers are going to tell me where you got your information from, which was what I queried and cast doubt on.

In my opinion, the current economic climate and the downturn in the tourist market will signal the end of the plan to build Ocean 1. I suspect a poll amongst those able to understand the thai market will show this to be the most likely outcome. The deafening silence from the promoters of Ocean 1 supports the idea it is in trouble. However, it has always been interesting to me that you can drive past nearly all condo blocks in pattaya and look up to see how many lights are on that will indicate occupancy levels, and come away thinking 'Not many people there tonight' This is just as true in high season as low. Try it on he Ocean marina condo next time you pass. Perhaps rich Thais prefer to own unused property rather than have taxable cash money. Mind you, this might have only been true in a growing economy.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":1v8z2ig3]Those who were sensible enough to have purchased Ocean 1 Tower apartments have already doubled their money ..... that approval has aready doubled the price of the land , undeveloped, if not tripled. ...................

why don't you refer your queries to the developer..I'm sure they would be happy to answer you.

This suggests that your only source for this "information" about doubling and trebling of money/values is ...............the developer! They just might have a tiny vested interest don't you think? Did they take you out to Lunch?[/quote:1v8z2ig3]

I may be cheap but not that cheap !

And, Out to Lunch, I hardly think the developers are going to tell me where you got your information from, which was what I queried and cast doubt on.

In my profession(s) we never reveal our sources and promise clients complete confidentiality..a girl can't live without repeat customers.

"The deafening silence from the promoters of Ocean 1 supports the idea it is in trouble."..you must get onto their regular email update list then...or call into Pattaya Properties..the door is always open.

As fascinating as Lester's theory is I don't recommend driving in Pattaya and looking up at buildings !! :cherry:

I took Out to Lunches advice and visited the Ocean website. Under its Latest News page was the almost prehistoric information about the cement mixing gear, and yet another piece of puff, in one of the Thailand property magazines and thus almost worthless, about environmental testing and geology of the sub surface rock. Old news again, I think. Nothing at all to indicate progress of any sort.
By the way, I am no expert, but the pictures of the cement mixing structure look a bit third world and also too small. Its not as if they are building a few houses.

To my knowledge I think only one construction company in Thailand has experience of very high rise buildings, and that is whoever put up the Baiyoke 2 Tower.

Concrete Constructions (Thailand), with the all-important formwork by VSL International. I was actually quite surprised by the number of genuine high-rises in Thailand.

What would interest me, Lester, would be information not from the salesmen in the Pattaya Properties office but from those actually financing the project; as they are more anonymous than me, however, this seems rather unlikely.

... eventually all will come out in the wash, but there are an awful lot of "rich" people in the world that have probably bought these properties. My friend has bought a property in Morocco, and now lost her job, been out of work for 4 months and told me if there is no job soon, the property, which is paid for in instalments, will be no longer.

Now, I bet that is happening time and time again with people who are buying these places. Come next year when they need to pay another instalment, they won't have the readies to pay for it. Obvioiusly, this won't apply to cash buyers, but I don't know how people feel on this board as to how many cash buyers there are that buy places like these. My experience is that the people have bought these in the past, rely on job security, good salaries, bonuses, and paying by mortgage and instalments.

If some of these places do falter, the developers won't lose much at all, after all, the ones that "pull out of the deal" will have already paid probably 50% of the value of the property and also in the same breath lost 50% of the value of the property!

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

To my knowledge I think only one construction company in Thailand has experience of very high rise buildings, and that is whoever put up the Baiyoke 2 Tower.

Concrete Constructions (Thailand), with the all-important formwork by VSL International. I was actually quite surprised by the number of genuine high-rises in Thailand.

What would interest me, Lester, would be information not from the salesmen in the Pattaya Properties office but from those actually financing the project; as they are more anonymous than me, however, this seems rather unlikely.

yes highly unlikely..but I've found Pattaya Properties to be great people to deal with once they know what you want and what your habits are..they will always advise to rent first if they think that's best for you.

"Now, I bet that is happening time and time again with people who are buying these places. Come next year when they need to pay another instalment, they won't have the readies to pay for it"..I think for the prices..Ocean 1 Tower condos are being bought by people who have plenty of spare cash and for their own use rather than as investment .

"Out to Lunches advice and visited the Ocean website. Under its Latest News page was the almost prehistoric information about the cement mixing gear,"..this is true..but remember , these were the contractors who built the Pyramids with the same concrete equipment and they're still standing !