Religous Homophobia - Bangkok Post

I would encourage as many people as possible to write to the Bangkok Post with alternative points of view. This kind of bigoted hatred should not go unchallenged.

I seldom disagree with you, cnx4shan, but I do in this case. I am not advocating saying nothing to preserve the status quo, as some say I do, but I think that the Editor has already answered the letter writer's point in full (We are talking about human rights, equal rights as a human being to any public service, and the discriminatory nature of those who judge others based on their personal sexual identity and preferences), with far more weight and objectivity than anyone else writing in to "challenge" it could manage.

Challenging such organisations' views in the public press may make you feel better personally, particularly if you have the urge to "stand up and be counted", but the plain reality is that while your intention may be to give "alternative points of view", which may or may not convince undecided readers, the end result is that you would simply be giving such oranisations and individuals the opportunity to repeat their views. Why do so, when your point has already been made?

The organisation referred to is a Christian Right American outfit http://www.exodus-international.org/ their "gay cure" therapy was discredited in a recent article/investigation in the London Times. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893735.ece

Anyone who takes these sorts of deranged religious rantings seriously needs their heads testing. As Gone Fishing quite rightly says, they are best ignored and starved of the oxygen of increased publicity,

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.

I have seen quite a lot of the States (probably more than the vast majority of Americans themselves), from the big cities to the smallest towns (such as Nowhere, Arizona and Glamis, California - "sand toy capital of the world") and while I was similarly amazed by the "religious hatred, racism and bigotry" openly displayed (but not to me!), as well as a genuine lack of awareness of the rest of the world, I was equally amazed by their warmth, hospitality and generosity to total strangers. While many Americans may not appreciate it, I found many similar traits (and similar "crackpot ... organisations") when I was in the Middle East.

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.As an American I find it embarassing. I was interested to read my fellow countryman Khor tose in another thread saying that as a humanist he doesn't mind the fact that the majority of Americans believe that God created humans; they did not evolve. He doesn't believe they should be challenged in their wrong belief or that America is any poorer for having such misguided beliefs. But then I read Khor tose in another post saying half of all Catholic priests are kiddy-fiddlers, so I guess that's any claims of his to have any logical mind discounted.

[Khor tose]

The organisation referred to is a Christian Right American outfit http://www.exodus-international.org/ their "gay cure" therapy was discredited in a recent article/investigation in the London Times. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893735.ece

Anyone who takes these sorts of deranged religious rantings seriously needs their heads testing. As Gone Fishing quite rightly says, they are best ignored and starved of the oxygen of increased publicity,

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.

At the present time there is some truth in what you say, but you own history is full of periods of the same thing. As Oscar Wilde said, "We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language."

It is still as true today as it was when he wrote it. I have been reading a lot of articles lately about how Britain is dealing with the Muslims, and it sounds like a little right wing Christian fanaticism is appearing in your society too.

[Khor tose]

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.

I have seen quite a lot of the States (probably more than the vast majority of Americans themselves), from the big cities to the smallest towns (such as Nowhere, Arizona and Glamis, California - "sand toy capital of the world") and while I was similarly amazed by the "religious hatred, racism and bigotry" openly displayed (but not to me!), as well as a genuine lack of awareness of the rest of the world, I was equally amazed by their warmth, hospitality and generosity to total strangers. While many Americans may not appreciate it, I found many similar traits (and similar "crackpot ... organisations") when I was in the Middle East.

Thank you gone fishing, This is one of the nicest fairest things I've seen said about America for a long time.

[Khor tose]

As a general point it constantly amazes me how many of these crackpot right-wing so-called Christian organisations seem to flourish in America and even more so how many Americans seem to hang on their every word and believe all the religious hatred, racism and bigotry that they stand for.As an American I find it embarassing. I was interested to read my fellow countryman Khor tose in another thread saying that as a humanist he doesn't mind the fact that the majority of Americans believe that God created humans; they did not evolve. He doesn't believe they should be challenged in their wrong belief or that America is any poorer for having such misguided beliefs. But then I read Khor tose in another post saying half of all Catholic priests are kiddy-fiddlers, so I guess that's any claims of his to have any logical mind discounted.

On the first post, I did not say that. That is a very strange interpetation of what was said. On the second post, you are correct, that is how it reads and that is just plain wrong. What I was trying to get at was that the church should not eliminate gay priest and just leave hetrosexual priest. What they need to do is include married priest and then they would have a priesthood that was healthier and more respresentative of their flock. I have just deleted it, as my second post which you did not mention covered that point. Thank you for calling my attention to that post Geoff.

Thank you for calling my attention to that post Geoff.How did you know my name is Geoff? When someone said that Americans weren't scientific and most believed God directly creatde them this is what you said about people "Even as a confirmed Humanist, I do not regard people who are religious as automatically being stupid, or in need of education."

[Khor tose]

Thank you for calling my attention to that post Geoff.How did you know my name is Geoff? When someone said that Americans weren't scientific and most believed God directly creatde them this is what you said about people "Even as a confirmed Humanist, I do not regard people who are religious as automatically being stupid, or in need of education."
A little to much editing. This is what said and how I answered, "Perhaps Khor tose would come out about where he stands on that list of alternatives, and why he is not expending his energies on educating his profoundly ignorant fellow countrymen". Even as a confirmed Humanist, I do not regard people who are religious as automatically being stupid, or in need of education, and I am quite proud of most thing America does and much that is stands for.

Your interpetation, "He doesn't believe they should be challenged in their wrong belief or that America is any poorer for having such misguided beliefs."

1. All religious people are neither stupid, ignorant, or lacking in education. If you think they are all ignorant hillbillies then, sadly, you have met some very bad Christians. I've met some who have no trouble combining science with even the most fundamental religions. It is rationalization in my book, but they are neither ignorant nor un-educated just because they can't see my truth.
2. As an American I believe in Freedom of conscience and, NO, right or wrong (and I know I am right) we do not force our views on others when they choose to interpret the world in their own way--religious or not. Nevertheless, I never said I would not argue with them.
The number one thing that right wing Christians do is try to force their beliefs on others, and that is what does make them detrimental to America. I fight and work against these people all the time, and nowhere did I say I would not oppose them. However, they are not the majority of the Christians in the USA. Not all Christians are right-wingers with a political agenda. Many believers are some of America's best citizens and would be an asset to any country. I talk to people like this also, but usually have little to say. These Christians try to live the word of Christ, and even as a Humanist, I find little in ChristтАЩs message to the world to argue with.

This is why I say strange interpretation. You seem to have grouped all Christians into one block and narrowly defined them. Not true in my book.

*The majority of people are opposed to homosexuality, and rightly so,*

His evidence for this?

[Aunty]

*The majority of people are opposed to homosexuality, and rightly so,*

His evidence for this?

He spoke to his Mum.

even as a Humanist, I find little in ChristтАЩs message to the world to argue with.So basically you are in tune with Christ's message that people should set themselves apart from the world, and their first loyalty is to God - just like Osama bin Laden's view of the world?

Thank you gone fishing, This is one of the nicest fairest things I've seen said about America for a long time.

Two incidents from an extended cycling trip I made across the States spring to mind to illustrate the extremes I mentioned.

Coming out of the Appalachians we had stopped at the side of the road under some trees for a drink; a pick-up truck drove past, turned around a couple of hundred yards away and drove past again - this time, however, the passenger stuck a shotgun out of the window, shouted "fuckin' homos" and fired both barrels at us (shades of Easy Rider!). Fortunately he missed and they drove on. This was not only the only time I have ever been shot at because someone thought I was gay, but the only time someone has assumed my sexual preference based (presumably) on my wearing cycling kit - maybe they had never seen anyone wearing lycra/spandex before (particularly in our sponsor's colours of blush pink and silver!).

Only a fortnight or so before, we had been going through Bound Brook, New Jersey, in the rain when I drove straight into a pothole, writing off the front forks. A couple of minutes later a man stopped his Euro-size pick-up, looked, laughed, said he could not fit the bike in the back and drove on. Five minutes later a US-size pick-up drove up and the driver asked if we needed a lift; I explained that we actually needed somewhere to stay for a week until I could get a new set of forks made and sent from the UK. He told us that the driver of the first pick-up had phoned him and he had gone next door to borrow his father's pick-up truck so he could give us a lift, and without hesitation he offered to put us up for the week. His only condition - that we go to his children's school for "show'n'tell"!

Maybe our not wearing lycra in Bound Brook, as it was raining, made a difference - somehow I doubt it.

I have no doubt that the two red-necks with the shotgun were Christians - it virtually went without saying in the area. Similarly, so were the Buzby's, with whom we stayed in Bound Brook. I also have no doubt that the vast majority of those we met in the US were "Christians" of one sort or another; race, wealth, age, etc were useless as a guide to where between the two extremes they would fall, although many more were "Bound Brook" than were "Appalachian"! I have never found "labels" to be anything more than a very broad indicator, anywhere in the world, and nowhere more so than in the US.

[Geezer]

I appreciate your using the term тАЬAppalachianтАЭ rather than the pejorative term тАЬhillbillyтАЭ. The politically correct term for residents of our region is тАЬAppalachian-American".

The politically correct term for residents of our region is тАЬAppalachian-American".
OH is that so? from everything I have read and seen of them I always thought it was 'uneducated bigot'! Certainly that was true when I toured through the area a couple of years back.

[Wesley]

I think its imposssible for some one treking though any area of the USA and determine what orwho they are based on a few days in the area,. people have daily lives and likely you coulld have run into the same in any state or area, The Applalation people are not bad people by any means nor are they Ignorant or any of the things you call them. I know the place well and you are far from any close representation of the area, I have known most of my life.

Wes

[cottmann]

The politically correct term for residents of our region is тАЬAppalachian-American".
OH is that so? from everything I have read and seen of them I always thought it was 'uneducated bigot'! Certainly that was true when I toured through the area a couple of years back.

I understood the correct term was 'kissing cousins,' given the family intermarriages that are said to occur there.

[Geezer]

I hardly understand how Snowcat can have such a negative opinion of Appalachian people after being accepted as one of their own.

While motoring through the area he stopped at a roadhouse to ask directions. It was a hot summer day. The customers were sitting around wearing overalls with no shirt, and sweating while drinking beer from a can. He entered, went up to the bar and said, " I would like white wine please."

The bartender eyed him with a toothless grin and said, тАЬYou ainтАЩt from around here are ya?тАЭ

тАЬNo IтАЩm not.тАЭ Snowcat replied.

Surveying SnowcatтАЩs city clothes the unshaven bartender said, тАЬWhat daтАЩyou for a livin?тАЭ

тАЬIтАЩm a taxidermist.тАЭ, responded Snowcat.

тАЬWhuts that?

тАЬI mount animals.тАЭ Snowcat replied.тАЭ

The bartender relaxed, smiled, looked around, and said, тАЬItтАЩs OK boys. HeтАЩs one of us.тАЭ

[Khor tose]

I hardly understand how Snowcat can have such a negative opinion of Appalachian people after being accepted as one of their own.

While motoring through the area he stopped at a roadhouse to ask directions. It was a hot summer day. The customers were sitting around wearing overalls with no shirt, and sweating while drinking beer from a can. He entered, went up to the bar and said, " I would like white wine please."

The bartender eyed him with a toothless grin and said, тАЬYou ainтАЩt from around here are ya?тАЭ

тАЬNo IтАЩm not.тАЭ Snowcat replied.

Surveying SnowcatтАЩs city clothes the unshaven bartender said, тАЬWhat daтАЩyou for a livin?тАЭ

тАЬIтАЩm a taxidermist.тАЭ, responded Snowcat.

тАЬWhuts that?

тАЬI mount animals.тАЭ Snowcat replied.тАЭ

The bartender relaxed, smiled, looked around, and said, тАЬItтАЩs OK boys. HeтАЩs one of us.тАЭ

This is today's happy laugh. Thank you Geezer. :cheers:

[giggsy]

from the daily express tuesday.. uk:-


тАЬA top Muslim GP has been suspended for saying homosexuals were the root cause of many sexually transmitted diseases. Dr Muhammad Siddiq the head of the Islamic medical association. also wrote a letter to a medical magazine saying that gays needed the stick of law to put them on the right path. Dr Siddiq then told a journalist that he thought gay people prey on society and that 99 percent of Muslim GPs shared his views.тАЭ

I think its imposssible for some one treking though any area of the USA and determine what orwho they are based on a few days in the area,. people have daily lives and likely you coulld have run into the same in any state or area, The Applalation people are not bad people by any means nor are they Ignorant or any of the things you call them. I know the place well and you are far from any close representation of the area, I have known most of my life.

Wes

Wes,

I am not sure if your comment is addressed to Snowkat or to me, since neither of us actually called the " Applalation people" ignorant, etc. If it is as a result of my post, you have totally missed my point that this was one isolated incident, that I neither said nor inferred was typical of the area - hence my conclusion that "I have never found "labels" to be anything more than a very broad indicator, anywhere in the world, and nowhere more so than in the US."

In general I found the people in the Appalachians to be friendly, open and honest, although many (but by no means all) were some of the least educated I have ever met in a Western country, with a genuinely surprising lack of knowledge of anywhere more than a few miles away; relatively few, for example, knew where any major cities in the US were, let alone where England was. I am not running them down, simply relating my own experience.

At least we agree on something, Wes - μία γλώσσα δεν είναι ποτέ αρκετή

And my name? Οὖτις ἐμοὶ γ' ὄνομα as Odysseus said to Polyphemus when asked the same question

[Wesley]

And LOL in greek is.... actually that was quite a human post, I do not disagree with your representation of the area, you are right. They probably do only know the neigbors and relatives in the area and may even think New York is on the West Coast. That I give you. But Good people they are and That I know from persoanl experience.

.Δεν βρέθηκαν λέξεις. or όλος the καλύτερος

Wes