Homiturds endless igrore argument of me.Intelligent design

[Wesley]

Let me clear up a subject that Homitiurd keeps on up bringing up when ever he is loosing any ground to me at all. That saying I think God created me, as I am. I donтАЩt apologize for a creationist view of life, that I am not a mistake, that I am not some great experiment.

Actually, I believe in intelligent design that me, people and the universe are by far, too complex and perfect to have been of accidental design. I donтАЩtтАЩ write off the тАЬBig BangтАЭ of evolution. Only that if there was intelligent design in my life; Rather than going around the rest of my life blaming God for my life and my misfortunes or being gay, I prefer to say that if the scientist is wrong, if there was over a period of thousand of millennia; a design to the universe and if so, then I am no accident and if no accident then I refuse to believe God hates me for who and what I am. I believe that I can both be loved and accepted by Him; if he exists. The one true fact is, if I am right I win everything, if I am wrong I loose nothing. If there is a God and I love him and he loves me then good. If not then there is nothing lost. So far, I have seen no theoary with greater evidence for the big bang or evolution than I have тАЬ intelligent designтАЭ. Although one may perceive one to be ignorant if he dispels science, which has become and taken the place of God in many circles, it makes me no less intelligent than they who find extraordinary means to prove their point that men came from a single celled organism. Although it sounds good there are many gaps and there is evidence of God that demands a verdict in this area. I can no more believe that a Coke can evolved into a coke can than I can believe that I evolved so magnificently in design. Perplexing as life is, I cannot give in to an accidental theory.

Now, having said all this I am not saying Homitiurd is wrong. Only that I believe that is as much evidence he is wrong, that he is right. Only that there are many holes in the big bang and evolution theories as there are in intelligent design. I do not take the bible as literal or as the final word on any issue especially cultural ones. Much of the New Testament was culturally written and is as out of date s as Gods view of man is today. To say I can be happy with God loving me like I am is not definitive but explanatory. If I am wrong, then I have lived a good life with integrity and honestly and love for my neighbor as myself, are not bad laws to live by, although not always to the good end for me. Often forgiveness and tolerance is more intelligent than the on going intelligent argument between Aunty and Homitiurd. They both go on with the same argument knowing neither will ever admit they are wrong, with his relationship eating at them personally, psychologically and socially. For us, it provides a few moments of entertainment but nothing more.

Not that there is not a God, only if there is, then it is smart on my part to be Gods friend not His enemy. If I am wrong then a life of integrity and man of my word being my bond. With people being able to know if I say something I mean it if I donтАЩt then maybe I have chosen not to bring bickering and fights here in an open forum with smart ass cracks that put others down and elevates me and takes his ego away to elevate my own.

I assure you, if you meet the old fart he is nothing like you expected, that he like all of us, hurts cries and is lonely at times, as are we all.

So, my idea is that all the theories cold be true, and in the end I can accept and understand them all, I choose a life of believing in the divine with the hope that I am right and if so, then I have lost nothing by the kind lf life I lead. I happen to believe that George can have one view of Sunnee and I another while still being friends and with respect for his views , while at the same time not giving up on my own beliefs. So, I do not accept religion, religion is 95% crux of the wrongs of the world and has been for millennia. I believe in a religion less Christianity in which I can believe in God, while still accepting the cultural good of ever race color and creed and still not loose who I am in their own way of thought.

So, if I believe in intelligent design , I am not saying it is the truth and end to all ways of thought , only to me it is the most plausible and the one with less risk. if I am wrong.

All the best!

Wes

"Homiturds endless igrore argument of me.Intelligent design". Poor old Wesley, forever on {Ignore}. And yes, I did it by design, intelligently

Although Wesley claims to have me on ignore I'll venture a post nonetheless.

Homintern has made no bones about have Wesley on ignore and yet poor old delusional Wes keeps at the fat bald old cunt tenaciously. It is now obvious that Wesley is well smitten with the old reprobate and has a bad case of unrequited love.

And by the way Wesley... using your self as evidence for intelligent design does nothing to bolster your argument.

[Wesley]

Although Wesley claims to have me on ignore I'll venture a post nonetheless.

Homintern has made no bones about have Wesley on ignore and yet poor old delusional Wes keeps at the fat bald old cunt tenaciously. It is now obvious that Wesley is well smitten with the old reprobate and has a bad case of unrequited love.

And by the way Wesley... using your self as evidence for intelligent design does nothing to bolster your argument.

The old cunt brought it all up again out of the blue, I thought I would clarify what I believe, As to ignore I was over you two in a day whilst you two continue to bolster some kind of defeat based on my intelligence. Ocassioanlly "once in a while" God makes a mistake you and Hoimituird are obvious proof of it.

Wes

And by the way Wesley... using your self as evidence for intelligent design does nothing to bolster your argument. :bounce: :drunken: :idea:

... big words for me!!

How can so many folks that have each other on ignore continue to respond to one another's post????? :drunken: These people need to get a real lives and stop living sad bitchy lives in cyberspace. Just my opinion.

I see Soi 10 Tom that you couldn't resist adding your own 2 cents. Et tu brute?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I sort of agree with you Wesley but if you had had the misfortune to have dinner with Homintern you would know that whoever the Intelligent Designer is , he/she was having a seriously off day when they designed Homintern. Perhaps the plans got mixed up with Big Foot's.

"I can no more believe that a Coke can evolved into a coke can than I can believe that I evolved so magnificently in design"

Being so magnificently designed one would think that you would know that inanimate objects are incapable of evolution.

Quite frankly Wesley I couldn't give a flying fuck what you believe or don't believe. But when you post such poorly written, intellectually weak drivel you can hardly be surprised that you get ridiculed for it.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Is a "flying fuck" the thing you have when you join the Mile High Club ?

How can so many folks that have each other on ignore continue to respond to one another's post????? These people need to get a real lives and stop living sad bitchy lives in cyberspace. Just my opinion.Is that the same sort of informed opinion that refuses to agree to call Thai bar boys "prostitutes" on the grounds that the person doing so must have had an unhappy childhood? :bounce:

Perhaps the plans got mixed up with Big Foot's.According to the mem'sahibs, I'm intimately connected to the Big Bang - the name for our Friday night sex party

Great.
Just what this World needs - another Numbskull who knows nothing about biology, biochemistry, geology, astrophysics, quantum mechanics or even if Georgia is in the Balkans, Baltics or Sunee Plaza.

So he takes comfort in the cozy little mythology that he was baked special in God's Big Oven which precludes his having to crack open a science book and maybe have to learn something hard like calculus.

Well what the hell, that's ok Wes. I long as you're happy.




(I guess it would be a waste of time to try to discuss if the LHC in Geneva will find the Higgs Boson....sigh...)

If some omnipotent and perfect God designed us, you'd think he'd have done a better job. I mean, what's with dandruff, body odor, halitosis, and 'roids? Not to mention cancer, AIDS, diabetes...

[Wesley]

Cha Na, I never said this is the final argument, I am just saying that it is as possible as some of the other theories and that every day more and the more information which comes in that proves previous theories, thought to be law, then find out the law was wrong, or flawed. You can say that our understanding is at best limited ; No matter what Kenc Says about all the education he has, he to is limited to a finite amount of knowledge. In the end I would count none of them out. The on going thought as to why people suffer is endless; neither we, nor animals are meant to live forever or in utter utopia. Often times it may be the hard lessons in life that teach me the most about life. I wish this was not life as it is, but we all will die, get old and suffer on the way out. It is not so much that we have lived but, how we lived that is important. In the grand total if you are happy who am I to say you are not. I would think we all live at different levels of intellectual and not so intellectual bliss. None of us having all the answers and none of us sure we are right, with the exception of Homitiurd.

Cha Na, I never said this is the final argument, I am just saying that it is as possible as some of the other theories and that every day more and the more information which comes in that proves previous theories, thought to be law, then find out the law was wrong, or flawed. You can say that our understanding is at best limited ; No matter what Kenc Says about all the education he has, he to is limited to a finite amount of knowledge. In the end I would count none of them out. The on going thought as to why people suffer is endless; neither we, nor animals are meant to live forever or in utter utopia. Often times it may be the hard lessons in life that teach me the most about life. I wish this was not life as it is, but we all will die, get old and suffer on the way out. It is not so much that we have lived but, how we lived that is important. In the grand total if you are happy who am I to say you are not. I would think we all live at different levels of intellectual and not so intellectual bliss. None of us having all the answers and none of us sure we are right, with the exception of Homitiurd.

The thing is Wesley, Charles Darwin and the people of his time were standing on the shoulders of thousands of intellectual giants who had made empirical observations that the wandering shepherds who penned the "Word" and the other "Word" didn't have the benefit of. I submit his theories are more plausible than, not equal to, the seven days malarkey and it's refurbishment as Intelligent Design.

(I guess it would be a waste of time to try to discuss if the LHC in Geneva will find the Higgs Boson....sigh...)

Well, it certainly won't be this year after the quench, but it would indeed be an interesting discussion. My own personal bet is that they will find dilithium before the Higgs

[Wesley]

If you read my original post, I made it clear that I believe that the creation took thousands of Millennia, not to say I am correct, only that it is better not to block yourself into a hole with no more actual knowledge we have. At best we see though a glass darkly. Who knows what will open to us in the generations to come. I only submit that; if I am going to be wrong I had rather be wrong about the Imperial logical foundations of the intellectual giants than to be wrong about the existence of God, Intelligent design is as old as I am certainly not in the pat 30 years have I heard of any thing that suggests it is a new theory at all. I may be wrong and Keep in mind I keep saying that over and over, I may well be wrong, but 7 days to an infinite god certainly could or, would not be mentioned in the idea that our day was anything near what his day is actually counted as and one day to God may be a thousand to us. So I do not believe in the 24 hour day literal interpretation of the written legends of the fall of man and his final demise. I see God as much more forgiving than men and that religion is our enemy not God. So, the Judean -Christian is only a guide to morality not a stop or go sign. It gives us some place to begin. The end I am sure is not going to be any ting like what we have been taught nor is life anything like what we believe it shall be.

So, I am not saying you are wrong I am just looking for an open mind which I believe to be the real litmus test for intelligence.

Wes

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

If some omnipotent and perfect God designed us, you'd think he'd have done a better job. I mean, what's with dandruff, body odor, halitosis, and 'roids? Not to mention cancer, AIDS, diabetes...

well what did you expect from a bloke who let his son roam about Palestine with a bunch of adoring men. letting women wash his feet and dry them with hair and then turning water into wine ( probably all 12 were totally and utterley pissed permanently) and then he sets out to walk on water !!

No wonder they strung him up on a cross and even then his dad said "oh just get on with it and fucking die ". Did you expect God to be perfect ?

If he was he wouldn't have created George W.Bush and talk to him..obviously as stark raving mad as Bush.

[Wesley]

[quote="Chao Na":pf066sfj]If some omnipotent and perfect God designed us, you'd think he'd have done a better job. I mean, what's with dandruff, body odor, halitosis, and 'roids? Not to mention cancer, AIDS, diabetes...

well what did you expect from a bloke who let his son roam about Palestine with a bunch of adoring men. letting women wash his feet and dry them with hair and then turning water into wine ( probably all 12 were totally and utterley pissed permanently) and then he sets out to walk on water !!

No wonder they strung him up on a cross and even then his dad said "oh just get on with it and fucking die ". Did you expect God to be perfect ?

If he was he wouldn't have created George W.Bush and talk to him..obviously as stark raving mad as Bush.[/quote:pf066sfj]



As we say in our circles and what I believe is that there was a prime mover, тАЬfor every action there is an equal an opposite reactionтАЭ meaning that in the beginning there was a first mover, a prime mover inтАж theological termsтАж The great debate is did God set things in motion then remove himself from all of the out come. Meaning did he say okay, I made the first move. Let us see where that will take us. That is where Transcendentalists comes in. Did he begin the movement, and then set himself apart from all consequences of that action, if terms easy to understand did he begin that action then say. No longer will I intervene in the situation of creation or its out come. If so, although responsible for all suffering mistakes and even George W Bush in his undying love for man maybe he allowed man to create his own destiny, by taking the transcendental act of making a first move, then see the reaction. It comes down to if God is involved with the daily lives of men and creation or does he look at all we have done and said it is good or it is bad. If you take the scriptures literally he said it was good. If you take the Buddhist route then he become s transcendental and no longer takes responsibility for our actions good or bad.

I personally believe he is involved but can relate to a more trasecedental god who saysтАж so, okay let man make his own destiny in life and I will not get involved.

In my later years with Islam and the Judeo-Christian out look on the world I would say that man in his search for meaning in his life chose God not God chose man. So, that our out come is completely determined by our own mistakes and misadventures of even GWB. So you can blame god for all that went wrong or you can blame the ignorance of man, poor judgment and poor planning only on man, if God is truly transcendental, At some stage man may become enlightened and evolve or grow beyond the preconceived ideas of Islam and Christianity and even Buddhism and find that if given time, there is yet hope for man. And with ever child that is born god states his undying thought that man yet, in his infancy god is yet to be discouraged of man. Thus, he allows the experiment to continue until we ether blow ourselves up or evolve into a more perfect being. If so, many thousands of years later thee will not be a mention of GWB and we will have began a new era in which man has learned to live in peace with God and his fellow man. I presume to say that nothing yet is perfect and the utopia the Socialist republic of the USSR may have been way ahead of its self in the human dialectics of Marxism. If the Beatles had it right. Some day, you can call me dreamer but man will live in peace in a one world government and in peace with God, who yet has revealed him self in totally to us. In the end, maybe IтАЩm a dreamer but I believe there is still yet hope for man and with ever child God sends us a message that he is not yet discouraged of us yet.

So tracendentalisim the big bang evolution is not contrary to God, it is a only path to the final place where we will no longer see though a glass darkly but, will be known even as we are known.

In short, God is not finished with us yet, GWB is only proof that god is still allowing us to decide our own destiny.

All the best,

Fsivo Horoshiva


Wesley

[Khor tose]

(I guess it would be a waste of time to try to discuss if the LHC in Geneva will find the Higgs Boson....sigh...)

Well, it certainly won't be this year after the quench, but it would indeed be an interesting discussion. My own personal bet is that they will find dilithium before the Higgs

GWM4A I know you are jokingly refering to Star Trek, etc., but we discovered dilithium {(Li(sub2)} some time ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilithium

[Khor tose]

Wesley please tell us who created your creator that made this intelligent design of yours. Please don't give me that alpha and Omega crap, as that is one of the theories science uses to explain the Universe as a whole (steady state). If we were so important why are we not the center of the Universe? I could remind you about a little known Monk named Giordano Bruno who dared believe that the sun was the center of the Universe, and who died before he would denounce that believe. I could also talk about Copernicus or Galileo. In all three cases the Church was clearly as wrong as you and other dogmatist are today with your intelligent design. Give me a break Wesley, it is not us you are trying to convince, but yourself. If you believed you would care less what we thought instead of going on with all this endless, illogical crap you are spouting.
Please allow me to give you a quote from a very famous religious closet homosexual. "You can never know what is true or not true, you can only choose to believe or not believe." C.S. Lewis--Chronicles of Narnia

But if you insist on philosophising while in between go-go visits consider thiese points:

1) Science is not necessarily inimical to religious belief. It is, however, inimical to religious dogma.

2) Evolutionary theory does nothing to disprove the existence of God and is not a threat to that belief. The only threat it poses is to a narrow ultra-literal reading of the Bible.

3) Many scientists over the centuries have become even more "spiritual" as they found how wonderfully complex and awsome the new universe they discovered really was. Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Einstein were all accused in their time of trying to "destory religion" but all were deeply religious (which doesn't mean they went to Church every Sunday like most hypocrites do).

4) Finally, consider - which seems a more "awe inspiring" story:
That the Universe was "set in motion" (I'll let you have that since there is no scientific way to comment on the subject) 14 billion years ago with a set of physical rules that allowed for the formation of matter, stars and planets and that further allow matter to spontaniously self-organize and form life which may, eventually after 4 billion years or so, evovle an intellegence that can comprehend the nature of the Divine - and do that on millions or billions of planets all over the universe?
OR
The childish Comic Book version of things in the Bible where God is a old white man with a beard sitting on a cloud and suddenly decided to waive his magic wand and create everthing in 6 days, people included, on this one little flat planet that the Sun and all other things revolve around?



Honestly guy, I think you should just chill out and enjoy your holiday. You can always come back to get bashed on this board later.
We'll still be waiting. :nunu:

[Wesley]

I don't disagree with any thing you had to say, I was simply presenting an alternative to the usual possibilties. As I said, an open mind is a wonderful thing. None of us have all the answers, if we did there would be no Need to discuss it.
you are right however, I am not sure I need to waste my time here on this particular subject.

I have a great night last night and it would be a shame to get it all bashed here on the forum.

Thanks for the interesting food for thought Kence, I appreciate you calm controlled response and you openess to discuss it with out all the name calling

All the best,

Wes