taking money out of the banks

[thrillbill]

I know 2-3 expats working in Thailand that have taken most of their money out of their bank accounts just incase their Thai bank folds up like some are starting to do around the world. They don't know if what would happen in Thailand if a bank had financial problems(I don't either). Sounds like being paranoid but it seems anything is possible now. Any comments from those who ARE living in Thailand?

Where are they keeping it? At home? If so, can I have their addresses?

I'd think the risk of a break in is about 1,000 times more than losing deposits due to a bank crash at Bangkok Bank or the like.

For me I think the sensible thing would be to just transfer from you UK bank enough to last you for 3 or 4 months, I prefer my money to stay reasonably safe. Does anyone know if Thai banks have the funds protected same as European?USA banks?.

Are you sure your UK is any safer than Bangkok Bank these days?

Gordon Brown announced this morning that the deposits in British branches of an Icelandic Bank are covered by the guarantees that were extended to ┬г50,000 yesterday. It seems that it may not be the perceived nationality of the bank that matters but the domicile and conditions under which a particular branch operates.

It is unclear to me whether deposits in say a UK Branch of an Irish Bank would come under the UK or the Irish guarantees.

It's all academic anyway as the crisis will go away shortly, as I have my fingers crossed, and that is about as rational as anything happening out there presently.

[topjohn5]

RUN down to the nearest bank and take out our money.....that will help.... :drunken:

[thrillbill]

RUN down to the nearest bank and take out our money.....that will help.... :drunken:

Topjohn-You do not work in Thailand where your money goes straight to a Thai bank and then it (may) get wired to your Stateside account, so it is a different issue here than in the States where your bank account is insured up to a particular amount($200,000). Most expats working in Thailand have part of their monthly income tranferred to their home country but leave a certain amount in their Thai bank account for ATM and such.

[topjohn5]

RUN down to the nearest bank and take out our money.....that will help.... :drunken:

Topjohn-You do not work in Thailand where your money goes straight to a Thai bank and then it (may) get wired to your Stateside account, so it is a different issue here than in the States where your bank account is insured up to a particular amount($200,000). Most expats working in Thailand have part of their monthly income tranferred to their home country but leave a certain amount in their Thai bank account for ATM and such.

Actually, my comment was a reference to creating a run on a bank which can cause a collapse of a bank fairly rapidly.....regardless of what country it is in......it works the same in Thailand or anywhere that has a fractional reserve banking system.....

IF Thais have their bank deposits guaranteed then there would still be the problem of whether non-Thai citizens have their bank deposits guaranteed. To tell the truth, I don't know either.

What I DO remember is being a part of the RUN on Bangkok Bank during the financial crisis for the miserly checking balance I kept there as it was necessary for something related to expenses at work. Yes, the lines at the branch downstairs in my building were VERY long that day, but they seemed to have the cash to cover everyone there.

I was glad the rest of my savings here were at the "HM's" Bank.

One of the reasons I relocated to Thailand, was that I don't have to worry about these kind of matters.

A Thai bank is as safe as any other bank (or unsafe), but please keep the western problems in the West and leave us alone!!

One of the reasons I relocated to Thailand, was that I don't have to worry about these kind of matters.

A Thai bank is as safe as any other bank (or unsafe), but please keep the western problems in the West and leave us alone!!

Joseph, if America is fcuked, Europe, China, Saudi Arabia and yes, even little Thailand are fcuked too - Big Time.

Time to buy the world's biggest bottle of lube and bend over....... :cyclopsani:

(So far no one's answered the original question as to weather Thailand has some kind of deposit insurance. I'm curious to find out also).

I know 2-3 expats working in Thailand that have taken most of their money out of their bank accounts just incase their Thai bank folds up like some are starting to do around the world.Why would anyone keep large sums of money in a Thai bank, given the miserly interest that they pay on deposits?

I know 2-3 expats working in Thailand that have taken most of their money out of their bank accounts just incase their Thai bank folds up like some are starting to do around the world. They don't know if what would happen in Thailand if a bank had financial problems(I don't either). Sounds like being paranoid but it seems anything is possible now. Any comments from those who ARE living in Thailand?


Thailand has recently enacted a deposit insurance program effective in August 2008. The best summation I found is at http://www.bia.co.th/legalupdates.html Scroll down list of articles to August 2008 and click on the item (to open the Microsoft Word file) The article notes that deposits of foreigners that DO NOT reside in Thailand are not covered. What is not answered for us farangs is does that mean those residing in Thailand on a retirement visa qualify or must one have applied and been approved for Thai Residence Permit (info at www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download) ?

Other information: Bangkok Post: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=128449 (http://http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=128449)

Bank of Thailand: www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInstitutionsDevelopmentFund/Deposit_Insurance/Pages/Deposit_Insurance.aspx (http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInstitutionsDevelopmentFund/Deposit_Insurance/Pages/Deposit_Insurance.aspx)

[Wesley]

Sorry it was a double post and the corrected one is below, If Jinks will selete this one it would be kind

Wes

[Wesley]

Right now, in Manila, I am not using a bank for that reason, and the fact that for one year here you cannot set up a Dollar account and the dollar seems to be up by two points since I arrived. So to lock it in at that rate of exchange is not what I would like to do. So, I am working out of an ATM business card for the time being. I have lost one bank back in the USA and I am a bit over worried about it is not the case in all countries, but I fear a spread of lack of Confidence in the banking system.. I just donтАЩt trust the consumer mind set right now, its 24 hour news and the more they talk about it on TV the worse it gets. If I had to guess I would say half the problem are the Talking heads on CNN and other networks, than the actual banking System, But I know several people that have made runs on their bank and that is not safe for them or the banking system. I think the UK did and USA and other banks around the world will eventually shore up their banking system. In the Philippines as soon as I red a local paper I saw they have set aside a considerable amount, for a small country, to cover any banking failure already, although this will not quickly solve the problem if you are patient and the consumer is patient it will be okay. If you don't stay in and others do the same there will be serious depression not just a mild recession. In my life time any way, I have never seen a run on banks. This is serious and I am being more cautious than usual since I lost quite a lot when the banks failed in Kyrgyzstan in 98. for almost a year I had to bank in Almaty for almost a year, which was a 6 hour drive then.

But, I have decided if me and others like me run on the banking system it will lead to a serious lack of confidence in the banking system which will cause a serious meltdown of the baking system . After all the banking system really is all about consumer confidence. Few of them have actual money on hand to cover their loans or investments. Should there be a run, by lack of confidence, I would bet 80% are not liquid enough to survive it; since most of their money is tied up in loans and investments and not cash


Wesley

One of the reasons I relocated to Thailand, was that I don't have to worry about these kind of matters.

A Thai bank is as safe as any other bank (or unsafe), but please keep the western problems in the West and leave us alone!!

Joseph, if America is fcuked, Europe, China, Saudi Arabia and yes, even little Thailand are fcuked too - Big Time.

Time to buy the world's biggest bottle of lube and bend over....... :cyclopsani:

(So far no one's answered the original question as to weather Thailand has some kind of deposit insurance. I'm curious to find out also).

Maybe it's about time that these bloody Yankees let go the idea that they are able to control the World, or at least think that they can do. It's sad enough that these things happen because of the fact that the Yanks aren't able to take care of their own business and just think that everything can be solved with a tube of lube.

[Wesley]

As best I can tell, this is a global problem, The Yanks as you say may have found it first, but globally, all the banks were over extended with a lack of collateral. They, like most of you had their money in the markets. If the markets fail, no matter which one, likely the others will follow. You didnтАЩt; really think your money was just sitting there waiting for you to come get it were you. They were investing it. Some good some bad investments, but good or bad your money was not sitting in the bank vault. You can blame who ever you like the problem is and always was global. It is no longer a one country market on Wall Street. ItтАЩs a global market that follows Wall Street. The banks made bad loans to people who could not afford to pay for a home at the usual going rate and likely had bad credit or, were living on the line. The bank was betting that real estate would go up not Down , when it went down there was no collateral to back up the loans, thus the mess you see now. This was true for every market especially the British, American, and German markets. However, the Yen was based on the dollar and if we go they go and they go you go. ItтАЩs all tied together. The only things that will fix it is global confidence in the market in the USA, UK and Tokyo markets, not to mention China who holds most of the American debt.

Wes

As best I can tell, this is a global problem, The Yanks as you say may have found it first, but globally, all the banks were over extended with a lack of collateral. They, like most of you had their money in the markets. If the markets fail, no matter which one, likely the others will follow. You didnтАЩt; really think your money was just sitting there waiting for you to come get it were you. They were investing it. Some good some bad investments, but good or bad your money was not sitting in the bank vault. You can blame who ever you like the problem is and always was global. It is no longer a one country market on Wall Street. ItтАЩs a global market that follows Wall Street. The banks made bad loans to people who could not afford to pay for a home at the usual going rate and likely had bad credit or, were living on the line. The bank was betting that real estate would go up not Down , when it went down there was no collateral to back up the loans, thus the mess you see now. This was true for every market especially the British, American, and German markets. However, the Yen was based on the dollar and if we go they go and they go you go. ItтАЩs all tied together. The only things that will fix it is global confidence in the market in the USA, UK and Tokyo markets, not to mention China who holds most of the American debt. An interesting but mostly inaccurate analysis. The reason why there is a "credit crunch" at the moment is that banks don't trust each other's ability to repay in the short-term, so they won't extend credit to each other, therefore there is no credit for anyone else. This came about because in order to minimise the risk of lending to risky borrowers, the banks were "sold" an idea by Wall Street whiz kids called "Collateralised Debt Obligation" and the US banks sold off their debts to other money market players (and sometimes each other). In the meantime banks generally worldwide borrowed from the global money markets and lent to their domestic borrowers. The CDO phenomenon is largely restricted to the US, but because CDOs constitute the securities that back up US banks' ability to pay, and they are now of uncertain value, and US banks are large players in the global money market, everyone suffers. Speaking as an American myself, working in Singapore, this is an American problem, caused by one Administration (Clinton) forcing banks to lend to poor credit risks and compounded by another (Bush 2) failing to regulate the banks and other financial markets according to prudential standards.

[Beachlover]

One of the reasons I relocated to Thailand, was that I don't have to worry about these kind of matters.

A Thai bank is as safe as any other bank (or unsafe), but please keep the western problems in the West and leave us alone!!

Maybe it's about time that these bloody Yankees let go the idea that they are able to control the World, or at least think that they can do. It's sad enough that these things happen because of the fact that the Yanks aren't able to take care of their own business and just think that everything can be solved with a tube of lube.

Mate, we live in a globalised economy. Just split your money up to manage the risk instead of whining.

It's not the end of the world. There might be a year or two of recovery or something longer (like a depression). Shit happens. There might be some tough times.

It's a capitalist economy with global investment markets... guys in banks get paid to make as much money as they can. At the end of a long week, they don't care if it their decisions may go to shit in the long term (like now). Their decisions are motivated by their half-yearly salary + bonus so their role is to keep pushing the limits.

It's the governments who are charged with keeping them in check... every now and then they drop a ball and there's a major hiccup. This is a bloody major hiccup, but it's a lesson learnt. The global finance system is complex and evolving and mistakes are part of any learning process.

Aussie banks are in a relatively strong position... lucky us.

... is probably the best bank to put your money.

A lot of this is all about how much banks have lent in the past. There was a ratio league table on BBC a few weeks ago and without going on too much about it, HSBC was the only bank that came out on top. They probably too have been exposed to the sub prime markets to what extent I don't know, and if you look at their share price it is not one of the banks that is fluctuating aggressively.

[Wesley]

I agree with your anlyisis in as much as it simplifies the short term problem, your right banks are not lending , even overnight, to other banks, that tells me if the guys that know what they have done and know its bad then the last poster who said it was a majior hicup and some ohher words to decribe it are right. Think about it, if I know you and know how you work and I get to the place I won't loan you money overnight you are in deep s..t. this does not look good but it's not all bad banking, it was the assumption it would stay a bull market, even if the housing bubble burtsted. When the bubble went to the scarp pile so went the banks then wall street quickly behind. You are right its about banks not trusting each other at least for the short term.
Wesley

Does anyone know if Thai banks have the funds protected same as European?USA banks?.


So far no one's answered the original question as to weather Thailand has some kind of deposit insurance. I'm curious to find out also.

Then why didn't you spend 30 seconds checking on a Google / Yahoo search engine, as others have done?

The answer, at least in theory, is a simple yes although the amount covered declines over the next 5 years:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/07/25...ss_30078918.php

On August 11, the Deposit Protection Act will be implemented.
So far, deposits of commercial banks are 100-per-cent protected by the government in case a bank's business license is cancelled or if it goes bankrupt.
But after the new act takes effect, the protection on deposits will be gradually decreased from 100 per cent in the first year to only Bt100 million per person per bank in the second year, Bt50 million in the third year, and Bt10 million in the fourth year.
From the fifth year onwards, or after August 11, 2012, the deposit guarantee will be reduced to only Bt1 million per person per bank

The Act has also been called (in translation) The Deposit Insurance Act, which established a Deposit Insurance Agency. Non-residents, for banking purposes, includes all those in Thailand without a resident's permit, who are not covered by the Act - including those on work permits and retirement visas; any bank will tell you this if you check the different deposit rates for residents and non-residents, and which rate you are eligible for.

For those who think major Thai banks are "safe", personally I would be very worried about any bank which has consistently posted a loss for several years and whose full accounts are not available for "security" reasons. TMB posted a net loss of 47.3 billion baht last year.

The true scale of the Icelandic bank fiasco is emerging.

So fare ┬г850 million of UK public money ( police/councils/Tfl etc) is frozen there. UK government estimates also ┬г11 billion of private companies money. 200,000 UK savers cash as well. May be just the tip of an iceberg.

The Icelandic government cant or wont help at the moment and the UK government is threatening legal action and freezing Icelandic assets where they can.

I would say anyone who got all their money out before last week was very shrewd indeed.

Joseph, if America is fcuked, Europe, China, Saudi Arabia and yes, even little Thailand are fcuked too - Big Time.


Not at all. America is the most indebted nation on the planet, with a massive trade deficit as a well.

The Saudis will be always able to sell their oil to someone, until of course they run out of the stuff.
China has accumulated large sums of foreign currency, so has a better economic outlook than the US.

Joseph, if America is fcuked, Europe, China, Saudi Arabia and yes, even little Thailand are fcuked too - Big Time.


Not at all. America is the most indebted nation on the planet, with a massive trade deficit as a well.

It all depends on how you look at the debt. In real terms you are correct:

On 30 September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt passed the $10 trillion mark, for the first time, with about $32,895 per capita (that is, per U.S. resident). Of this amount, debt held by the public was roughly $5.3 trillion. Adding unfunded Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare, and similar obligations, this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household. (Wikipedia)

In comparative terms, however, others are far worse off:

Debt / GDP Ratio:

Malawi 208%
Lebanon 200%
Japan 170%
Italy 107%
Singapore 102%
Canada 68%
Germany 68%
France 66%
USA 64%
Switzerland 53%
UK 42%
Australia 16%
Russia 15%
Botswana 7%
Hong Kong 2%


China has accumulated large sums of foreign currency, so has a better economic outlook than the US.

Not necessarily, as this includes $502 billion of US Treasury Securities; Japan has $592.2 billion, while the UK has $251.4 billion and even Thailand has $27.9 billion. While I would not say that Kenc is 100% correct, he is certainly right in as much as the economies are linked and interdependent.

1 Your debt/GDP figures are for government borrowing only. The US is in a much worse relative state considering consumer borrowing also. The ongoing trade deficit is only compounding this problem.

2 I have not claimed the US is the worst on a per capita basis -it's just a very large & very very indebted country, compared with say the UK, which is medium sized & very very indebted. Or Iceland, which is tiny & just about bankrupt.

[cottmann]

.... However, the Yen was based on the dollar and if we go they go and they go you go. ......Wes

Not so, Wesley. The JPY is not pegged to the US dollar and fluctuates in value against the US dollar quite considerably, as well as against other currencies independently of the US dollar. This morning NHK business report quotes the JPY at under 100 yen to the US dollar, down from 110 yen in August and around 120 yen a year ago.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

IF Thais have their bank deposits guaranteed then there would still be the problem of whether non-Thai citizens have their bank deposits guaranteed. To tell the truth, I don't know either.

What I DO remember is being a part of the RUN on Bangkok Bank during the financial crisis for the miserly checking balance I kept there as it was necessary for something related to expenses at work. Yes, the lines at the branch downstairs in my building were VERY long that day, but they seemed to have the cash to cover everyone there.

I was glad the rest of my savings here were at the "HM's" Bank.

this is a good answer..even if Thai bank funds were guaranteed by the government ( and which one ?..could be a new one anyday) you would never know if that applied to farangs and they will never actually tell you. Best to have the bulk in a homeland guranteed bank and some handy funds in Thailand.

Alternatively..give it me to put under my bed as I'm not out of it too much and if anyone broke in..the very sight of Mrs O'Booze in the sack would frighten the life out of any would be burgular.

[Wesley]

.... However, the Yen was based on the dollar and if we go they go and they go you go. ......Wes

Not so, Wesley. The JPY is not pegged to the US dollar and fluctuates in value against the US dollar quite considerably, as well as against other currencies independently of the US dollar. This morning NHK business report quotes the JPY at under 100 yen to the US dollar, down from 110 yen in August and around 120 yen a year ago.

The whole point of my argument was to say it is not just all an American problem, it is integrated and one country unlike in the 1930's cannot fall with out many others going with it, Tokyo depends heavily ion US Trade although their is a huge trade deficit. Just to go on to the matter then, is we go they go. They nor China can survive long without American trade, or at least not do it easily. How connoted they are with the Yen, I was quoting a CNN report from yesterday off TV. If they are wrong then I would think I am.


Wes

[cottmann]

......The whole point of my argument was to say it is not just all an American problem, it is integrated and one country unlike in the 1930's cannot fall with out many others going with it, Tokyo depends heavily ion US Trade although their is a huge trade deficit. Just to go on to the matter then, is we go they go. They nor China can survive long without American trade, or at least not do it easily. How connoted they are with the Yen, I was quoting a CNN report from yesterday off TV. If they are wrong then I would think I am. Wes

Japan has a large surplus (not deficit) in its trade with the US (exporting to the US about twice as much as it imports from the US) but its biggest trading partner is in fact China, not the USA, and has been since 2007 (and possibly since 2005). Trade with China accounts for about 20% of all Japanese international trade, and that with the USA about 19% (meaning 81% of Japanese international trade is with other countries). Although the downturn in the US economy is badly affecting Japanese firms such as Toyota (a single yen rise against the dollar costs Toyota around 35 billion yen in profits), the strengthening of the yen against the dollar makes oil and other dollar-denominated imports much cheaper. While the loss of American customers will adversely affect Japanese firms to some extent, the increasing wealth of the Chinese consumer will compensate. You have to understand, too, that foreign trade accounts for only about 15% of Japan's gross domestic product, meaning it is domestic consumption in Japan by Japanese that is more important than consumption by US citizens of Japanese products.

Don't believe everything you see on CNN, especially if it is domestic CNN, either.

[Wesley]

I realize the deficit is with the US, and has ben for sevreal years, we import the export thus a strong America helps japan, I am getting CNN ASia not Domestic. I wish I could get soemthing domestic but cable here is only the usual stuff in Asia only the movies and everythignis in english not Tagalog.

So, you are likely right. I am just beginning to understand SE Asia. I will catch up as long as people like you can post with enough respect for me to enjoy the post and not feel like you are talkign down to me. Thanks for the information. As I learn, it will help in my understanding of the Area. I could tell you everythign about Russian and former Soviet Econnomies and most cenral Asian. Which get almost everythign from China. While here I see a lot of Japense products not Chinese although Iam told the chinese stuff can be found in the marlkets not the malls.

Thanks for the information, it is much appreciated.

Wes

[Alternatively..give it me to put under my bed as I'm not out of it too much and if anyone broke in..the very sight of Mrs O'Booze in the sack would frighten the life out of any would be burgular.I can vouch for that - I once met Her Indoors and I've never recovered. You have only to read my posts to see how I've been affected

[thrillbill]

-great opinion exchange here... thanks

[zinzone]

The cause of all this financial turmoil is surely that c*nt Bush.
Iraq is a total disaster, he amongst other things, screwed up the rescue of lifes in Katrina, he is hated throughout the world more than bin Laden, and now the idiot is part and parcel of the worst economic disaster ever.
Etc, etc.
Everything he does is wrong but he does not know what he is doing except when it comes to feathering the nest of his cronies.
Did you see the Michael Moore film of Bush on 9/11?
Clueless then, clueless now.
Cowardly too.
And its also the fault of the yanks in electing such an awful creep.
Lets hope Obama will do better as surely the Americans can't elect that anti gay bitter McCain?
Or can they?

Bush is a twat, for sure. But to blame the financial crisis solely or even largely on him personally? A bit of a stretch, even for this Bush hater.

I didn't sleep very well last night and had a dream during which God spoke to me. I live in the financial district of London, known as "the City" and God was concerned that I was not being woken by the sound of bankers hurling themselves from the buildings. I empathised - it's always best to empathise with those with authority. Anyway, I asked God what we could do to restore confidence to the markets.

"Simple" he said, "get some guy with a long beard to ascend a mountain and I'll give him a couple of tablet when he gets to the top."

"But be very sure" He continued "that on the way down it's the same as the last time."

"Last time", I asked.

"Yeh, there has to be a burning Bush."

Well, that's about as rational as anything else happening out there today. Sweet dreams.

... even if Thai bank funds were guaranteed by the government ... you would never know if that applied to farangs and they will never actually tell you.

Wrong, as usual (but not as always!). You would know if you checked the Act, and they do tell you. It doesn't.