working on a tedious article, I make a discovery !

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I'm doing research on a depressing piece about the badly dressed Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his supposed statements about the Hollocaust etc.

The main thrust is the absolute distortions with which the media manipulate a person's statements which end up sometimes meaning the complete opposite..and from then on the lie is repeated and sourced endlessly.

Thus we have Ahmadinejad described as a "Hollocaust denier"-which when reading his speeches accurately he definitely isn't. He merely calls for more discussion on a subject that is unique in this world and actually has laws about discussion on it in countries like Germany & Austria where one can be jailed-which is hardly democratic.

In fact when you think of it-what other subject on this planet is treated as a "closed book" like the Hollocaust. I'm certainly no denier but I believe the manner in which anyone attempting to discuss possible distortions and is then criticised , actually does Israel more harm than good.

And for that matter-why are there no memorials or museums in the West celebrating the 11 million Russian soldiers who died for us when they decimated the German army and saved us from the Nazis ?

But I digress..I've been researching his speech at Columbia University where he was utterey ridiculed worldwide for answering a question on sexual preferences and women by saying :
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals"

This swept the world without another single point in his speech being reported : the fact that he denies ever saying he wanted the destruction of Israel , nor does he deny the Hollocaust and he firmly believes that Israel should exist and he would like to see Palestinians and Israelis living in peace side by side.
His statement that has been distorted so many times : that he would like to see the regime in Israel vanish. To me that translates as a change of the Likud government and the Zionist influence.

But I've discovered from the orignal translation of the Columbia speech an interesting fact..he most certainly said "In Iran we don't have homosexuals "

or did he ?

The full text of the sentence : "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country "

The meaning suddenly changes. And he was telling the truth. And not just in Iran..I cannot think of any other country that has a gay scene like in America !

and anyone who visited the infamous Mineshaft in New York in it's heyday knows what I mean/.There is nothing, absolutely nothing, and most certainly , not a gay scene-as it exists in America where it's "in you face", over the top, every perversion catered for , on the street, on popular TV shows, with large sections of cities like Greenwich Village in New York and Haight Ashbury in SF which are almost exclusive gay enclaves...in fact Ahmadinejad told the complete truth !

apart from that. he's probably a ratbag and nuts and extremely dangerous but when the media combines to do the work of government when they are intent on bombing the be-Jesus out of Iran, we should worry. That was Josef Goebbel's most successful achievment..he had every German newspaper eventually singing from the same song sheet.

lecture over.Please form an orderly queue on your way out

Out to Lunch,

areyou ill? I am truly surprised - a post that is not only genuinely interesting (at least to me) but well researched, unbiased, logical and easily read (and which, coincidentally I am sure, supports some earlier posts I made).

What happened?

Has someone stolen your laptop?

[Wesley]

I found the post entirely enlightening, I have worked with translators for some time, IтАЩm never sure what I am saying is at all what I intended to say in the translation. In fact, I find in most cases the interpreter is adding on my perceived point of view as well as his.

I would not be surprised if it turns out, he is not the Demon his is perceived to be. I agree with the Chinese president who had an interview on TV here. Iran has every right to explore peaceful nuclear power as much as India Pakistan and Isreal, with the appropriate oversight If the Atomic energy regulatory commission; (I forget the long initials for it.) He proposes with the correct oversight if allowed should be accepted, however, with out this most important insight he would disapprove.

I know the presidnet of Iran is a bit crazy but, the stuff that gets exaggerated over here about the elections makes me sure they do it with others as well. Excellent post MR. Booze. I also agree you are the one of the better posters on the board.

Wes
[/b]

Radical leftists, with no more Stalin and no more Mao to worship, suddenly fall in love with jihadi kooks. M Dejeuner is simply the latest to fall. He should probably join Code Pink.

Those seeking to understand this very strange phenomenon should read Unholy Alliance.

[francois]

I cannot think of any other country that has a gay scene like in America !

lecture over.Please form an orderly queue on your way out

Much of the gay scene you described has faded away. Pattaya and Bangkok are more in your face than those in USA. Then there is Rio!

[cottmann]

.....Those seeking to understand this very strange phenomenon should read Unholy Alliance.

But only with a very large pinch of salt!!

[Smiles]

" ... The full text of the sentence : "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country " ... "
A reasonable interpretation of this sentence might be something along the lines of: " ... In Iran our homosexuals are not like in your country. They are nice and quiet, don't protest about anything, stay in the shadows, only coming out in the dead of night, and hide behind bushes in parks.
Also, if they do anything other than that, we'll throw 'em in a cold cell and probably have a nice quiet talk with them regarding the situation (wink wink, nudge) ... "

Or would that constitute putting words in the little tinpots mouth?

Cheers ...

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I cannot think of any other country that has a gay scene like in America !

lecture over.Please form an orderly queue on your way out

Much of the gay scene you described has faded away. Pattaya and Bangkok are more in your face than those in USA. Then there is Rio!

Oh is Rio still good ?. I've never been there ..always wanted to.

And a friend who has moved there tells me Colombia has a sensational gay scene. I know a very wealthy Colombian woman living in Neqw York..her 2 sons aged 24 & 26 are the hunkiest things I've seen. She's always saying I must visit and she'll put me in touch with the "right" people. I asked her one night if it was dangerous..given what we hear. "don't worry" she said patting my knee comfortingly,"I can loan you a pistol".

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

" ... The full text of the sentence : "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country " ... "
A reasonable interpretation of this sentence might be something along the lines of: " ... In Iran our homosexuals are not like in your country. They are nice and quiet, don't protest about anything, stay in the shadows, only coming out in the dead of night, and hide behind bushes in parks.
Also, if they do anything other than that, we'll throw 'em in a cold cell and probably have a nice quiet talk with them regarding the situation (wink wink, nudge) ... "

Or would that constitute putting words in the little tinpots mouth?

Cheers ...

at the time his critics said , the reason you have no homosexuals is because you've hanged them all !

[topjohn5]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":1xiruh5n]

I cannot think of any other country that has a gay scene like in America !

lecture over.Please form an orderly queue on your way out

Much of the gay scene you described has faded away. Pattaya and Bangkok are more in your face than those in USA. Then there is Rio!

Oh is Rio still good ?. I've never been there ..always wanted to.

And a friend who has moved there tells me Colombia has a sensational gay scene. I know a very wealthy Colombian woman living in Neqw York..her 2 sons aged 24 & 26 are the hunkiest things I've seen. She's always saying I must visit and she'll put me in touch with the "right" people. I asked her one night if it was dangerous..given what we hear. "don't worry" she said patting my knee comfortingly,"I can loan you a pistol".[/quote:1xiruh5n]

Lunchtime,
I can tell you that Colombia has a fabulous gay scene. I was there for 2.5 weeks in July in both Medellin and San Andres. Medellin is fantastic! I'm planning a return trip soon back to Medellin as well as adding Bogota and Cartagena this time.

" ... The full text of the sentence : "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country " ... "
A reasonable interpretation of this sentence might be something along the lines of: " ... In Iran our homosexuals are not like in your country. They are nice and quiet, don't protest about anything, stay in the shadows, only coming out in the dead of night, and hide behind bushes in parks.
Also, if they do anything other than that, we'll throw 'em in a cold cell and probably have a nice quiet talk with them regarding the situation (wink wink, nudge) ... "

Also adding ...."and if they want a sex change operation we will pay for it, unlike your country, either here or abroad, which is why we are second only to Thailand for the number of sex change operations carried out" ....???

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":n116d13k]" ... The full text of the sentence : "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country " ... "
A reasonable interpretation of this sentence might be something along the lines of: " ... In Iran our homosexuals are not like in your country. They are nice and quiet, don't protest about anything, stay in the shadows, only coming out in the dead of night, and hide behind bushes in parks.
Also, if they do anything other than that, we'll throw 'em in a cold cell and probably have a nice quiet talk with them regarding the situation (wink wink, nudge) ... "

Also adding ...."and if they want a sex change operation we will pay for it, unlike your country, either here or abroad, which is why we are second only to Thailand for the number of sex change operations carried out" ....???[/quote:n116d13k]

The government will not pay the full costs of a sex change operation, but may pay a proportion of the costs up to a maximum of 50%.

I would suggest Boozy (and others) you go back and read the actual transcript of the speech and Q &A at Columbia University.

You can find it at this link: Transcript- Ahmadinejad's remarks at Columbia University (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/24/AR2007092401042.html)

I think you will find his answers to direct questions rambling and disingenuous at best.

I quote the specific section about "homosexuals" verbatim: (warning, looong quote)

"QUESTION: Mr. President, another student asks -- Iranian women are now denied basic human rights and your government has imposed draconian punishments, including execution on Iranian citizens who are homosexuals. Why are you doing those things?

AHMADINEJAD (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Freedoms in Iran are genuine, true freedoms. Iranian people are free. Women in Iran enjoy the highest levels of freedom.
We have two deputy -- two vice presidents that are female, at the highest levels of specialty, specialized fields. In our parliament and our government and our universities, they're present. In our biotechnological fields, our technological fields, there are hundreds of women scientists that are active -- in the political realm as well.
It's not -- it's wrong for some governments, when they disagree with another government, to, sort of, try to spread lies that distort the full truth.
Our nation is free. It has the highest level of participation in elections, in Iran. Eighty percent, ninety percent of the people turn out for votes during the elections, half of which, over half of which are women. So how can we say that women are not free? Is that the entire truth?

But as for the executions, I'd like to raise two questions. If someone comes and establishes a network for illicit drug trafficking that affects the youth in Iran, Turkey, Europe, the United States, by introducing these illicit drugs and destroys them, would you ever reward them?
People who lead the lives -- cause the deterioration of the lives of hundreds of millions of youth around the world, including in Iran, can we have any sympathy to them? Don't you have capital punishment in the United States? You do, too.

(APPLAUSE)

AHMADINEJAD (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): In Iran, too, there's capital punishment for illicit drug traffickers, for people who violated the rights of people. If somebody takes up a gun, goes into a house, kills a group of people there, and then tries to take ransom, how would you confront them in Iran -- or in the United States? Would you reward them? Can a physician allow microbes symbolically speaking to spread across a nation?
We have laws. People who violate the public rights of the people by using guns, killing people, creating insecurity, sells drugs, distribute drugs at a high level are sentenced to execution in Iran.
And some of these punishments, very few, are carried in the public eye, before the public eye. It's a law, based on democratic principles. You use injections and microbes to kill these people, and they, they're executed or they're hung. But the end result is killing.

QUESTION: Mr. President, the question isn't about criminal and drug smugglers. The question was about sexual preference and women.

(APPLAUSE)

AHMADINEJAD (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): In Iran, we don't have homosexuals, like in your country.

(LAUGHTER)

We don't have that in our country.

(AUDIENCE BOOING)

AHMADINEJAD (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have it.

(LAUGHTER)

But, as for women, maybe you think that being a woman is a crime. It's not a crime to be a woman.

AHMADINEJAD (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Women are the best creatures created by God. They represent the kindness, the beauty that God instills in them. Women are respected in Iran. In Iran, every family who is given a girl -- is given -- in every Iranian family who has a girl, they are 10 times happier than having a son. Women are respected more than men are.
They are exempt from many responsibilities. Many of the legal responsibilities rest on the shoulders of men in our society because of the respect, culturally given, to women, to the future mothers. In Iranian culture, men and sons and girls constantly kiss the hands of their mothers as a sign of respect, respect for women. And we are proud of this culture".



Now I don't know how youse guys interpret that but it looks pretty much to me like he's saying "We don't have Homos" -period. And I've never heard of him clarifying or amending that statement.

And his answers to the other questions are equally full of a bunch of rambling BS.

Don't be taken in by this guy.

I think you will find his answers to direct questions rambling and disingenuous at best.Doris should feel right at home