Clashes mar Bosnias first gay festival

[lonelywombat]

September 25, 2008 - 8:30AM [24/09 22.30 GMT]


Dozens of homophobic hooligans attacked participants of Bosnia's first-ever gay rights festival in Sarajevo, leaving at least two journalists and one police officer injured.

The scuffle broke out at the end of the opening ceremony of the four-day festival in front of the Academy of Fine Arts in downtown Sarajevo.

"When I was getting out of the academy, I was suddenly struck in the back," Pedja Kojovic, a local journalist, told AFP. "Three other people then came running and beat me up."

Emir Imamovic, a journalist who tried to help Kojovic, was severely beaten, police said.

A heavy police deployment prevented more violence from spoiling the event, with a security cordon keeping protesters shouting "kill the gays" and "Allahu Akbar" (a Muslim expression meaning God is Great) at bay.

A police officer on the scene said groups of anti-gay protesters had spread to nearby streets and were attacking people. A police officer was struck in the head during the clashes.

About 50 people participated in the opening day of the festival, which had already prompted fears of violence, with homophobia overriding usual divisions among the country's war-time foes - Muslims, Serbs and Croats.

The country's Muslim majority is particularly upset about the festival because it opened during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Many, including members of various ethnic political parties, have declared homosexuality an illness and labelled the behaviour deviant.

[Brad the Impala]

They still have a long way to go, and I wish them luck.

GF on the other hand would say that by having a gay rights festival, they were being provocative and "looking for a fight", and deduce that those being attacked, and those doing the attacking, were both "extremist bigots".

Does GF refer to Gone Fishing, Brad? One has to wonder at the psychology of people who blame the victim. Invisible minorities cannot achieve liberation and we owe a debt of gratitude to those people who stand up to be counted in the face of deeply homophobic cultures such as those that meet at Sarajevo.

If there is one glimmer of pride that we may take from the troubles of the island of Ireland it is that during those dreadful times one repeatedly heard that the one community where people from both sides routinely met was in the gay community. Unravelling tightly knotted bigotry doesn't happen overnight and I salute those brave enough to make a start in that pitiable town.

[Brad the Impala]

None other than Gone Fishing. The man who believes that the GLF was directly responsible for the introduction of Section 28!

Does GF refer to Gone Fishing, Brad? One has to wonder at the psychology of people who blame the victim.

555,

you know full well that Brad the Liar was referring to me. You also know full well that I explained no less than seven times following Brad the Liar's assertions that I did not say that "they were being provocative and "looking for a fight", and deduce that those being attacked, and those doing the attacking, were both "extremist bigots"". This is not even a distortion of the truth, or a mischaracterisation of what I said, it is an outright and deliberate lie, which you have continued to perpetrate.

I clearly quoted one particular line from a Reuters article, which had already been quoted in full and referenced, and said what I thought the article "sounds like". To say that this is, or has ever been, my view is as accurate as saying that someone who said that it "sounds like rain" based on what someone else said to them has said that "it is raining" - if that is what you believe, then you are considerably less intelligent than I have given you credit for.

What I would say, and it has nothing specifically to do with Bosnia or gays, is that anyone who organises any sort of festival during Ramadan in a largely Muslim country, when eating, drinking (even water), music, meetings (except for prayer), sport, etc, in public or private, are banned during daylight hours is being deliberately disrespectful at best and that it would not be an exaggeration to call it provocative.

When I lived and worked in a Muslim country I respected not only their laws, but also their customs and culture. When I went for my daily run / physical training during Ramadan, for example, I not only did it at night but, despite the heat, I wore full length trousers and a long-sleeved shirt. Not to have done so would not have caused me any problems directly, as I had already been told officially that I personally had no need to, but it would have been unnecessarily disrespectful and deliberately rude to those who had shown me respect both professionally and personally.

I have been fortunate not to have experienced any of the bigotry, rejection and discrimination that some others undoubtedly have on religious, racial, sexual or any other grounds, despite having spent all my working life in a profession and in areas where, for example, being homosexual was either frowned on or unacceptable and I put that down not only to good fortune but, at least in part, to having always tried to show others the respect and courtesy I would like them to show me.

As for your assertion that during "the troubles" in Northern Ireland "the one community where people from both sides routinely met was in the gay community" I can assure you that this is pure fiction; while it may have been true of the Irish community in Camden Town it was most certainly not for those in the Bogside, the Shantallow, the Rossville Flats, the Fountain or the Shankhill Road.

I too salute those genuinely trying to "unravel tightly knotted bigotry". Maybe you should start with yourself, and the reason why it is so important to you that you have felt the need to ask me twice by PM which school I went to - a question I have only been asked on one other occasion in my life.

void

[Bob]

I explained no less than seven times


Yawn. I believe it's a misdemeanor to explain anything more than twice. Over 5 times is close to a felony.....

Criminal stupidity, really ...

....What I would say, and it has nothing specifically to do with Bosnia or gays, is that anyone who organises any sort of festival during Ramadan in a largely Muslim country, when eating, drinking (even water), music, meetings (except for prayer), sport, etc, in public or private, are banned during daylight hours is being deliberately disrespectful at best and that it would not be an exaggeration to call it provocative.....

I think what tends to stick in people's craw about your posts is the tendency to bend over backwards to "respect" the prevailing status quo and, esp. with respect to gays, try not to rock the boat with provocations.

I would argue that the unfortunate truth in this world is that Civil Rights are only advanced by provoking the status quo.

Rosa Parks was deliberately provocative when she sat at the front of the bus instead of the back where she "belonged."
Dr. King provoked the authorities when he marched over the Selma Bridge.
The Drag Queens of the Stonewall Bar provoked the police when they decided not to quietly accept another raid.
Ghandi provoked the British when he marched to the sea to make his own salt.

I'm not sure what the politics in Bosnia are. I accept that its possible the Gay Community was trying to be provocative by marching during Ramadan, possibly to bring attention to their plight.
But I would submit that the thugs that beat the crap out of them were doing nothing to defend or advance the cause of Islam, and if they acted under the name of the religion than they only brought discredit to it.

I accept that its possible the Gay Community was trying to be provocative by marching during Ramadan, possibly to bring attention to their plight.
But I would submit that the thugs that beat the crap out of them were doing nothing to defend or advance the cause of Islam, and if they acted under the name of the religion than they only brought discredit to it.

Kenc,

I quite agree with all your points on this, but would it not have been wiser for them simply to have marched at any time other than Ramadan, making it clear beyond any doubt that "the thugs that beat the crap out of them" were doing so purely because they were gay? As it stands now it is anything but clear, particularly within Bosnia, as any "festival" in Ramadan may have got similar treatment, so they have probably not advanced their cause within Bosnia at all - in fact they could have set it back, by appearing to be deliberately offensive to nearly half the population.

All the examples you cite were being deliberately provocative, but they were also making it very clear why; by deliberately having a festival during Ramadan (and they could hardly not have realised he significance of the date) it is not clear whether they were promoting gay rights or were targeting Islam - or, more probably, both.

Approximately 40% of Bosnia is Muslim, 46% Christian (Catholic and Orthodox) and 14% secular.

I would not say that I have a "tendency to bend over backwards to "respect" the prevailing status quo and, esp. with respect to gays, try not to rock the boat with provocations", although I concede that that is how it might appear. It is not so much the "status quo" that I respect, (in fact neither status quo nor status have ever really meant much to me!) but rather those individuals around me who have "shown me respect both professionally and personally" - the two may overlap, but to me they are very different.

If you like I would be quite happy to explain to you by PM, in strict confidence, just how much I have been prepared to "rock the boat" when I saw fit - you may be surprised (on the other hand, you may just be bored!).

[Brad the Impala]

The anti gay protesters shouted "kill the gays". That clear enough for you?

.... but would it not have been wiser for them simply to have marched at any time other than Ramadan, making it clear beyond any doubt that "the thugs that beat the crap out of them" were doing so purely because they were gay? As it stands now it is anything but clear, particularly within Bosnia, as any "festival" in Ramadan may have got similar treatment, so they have probably not advanced their cause within Bosnia at all - in fact they could have set it back, by appearing to be deliberately offensive to nearly half the population....

Yes you have a point. But let's back up a bit.

First of all, again admitting I don't know all the inns and outs of Bosnian politics, there are some things that are not clear to me from the original article.
First of all its not clear that the timing of the "festival" was a deliberate attempt to provoke the minority (large minority) Muslim population. But at the same time why should 40% of the population be able to impose their religous views on what should or shouldnt be done during their particular holidays? If the Muslims want to tell their own people how to behave that's fine but they have no business telling everyone else they can't have a party.

And that last statement I made may have been the exact thinking of the festival planners.

Secondly, its not clear just how many of the hooligans were Muslims.
There is apparently a virulently homophobic "Slavic Evangelical movement" that I was not aware of until reading this article in our local gay newspaper about the murder of an Indian guy last year.

link: One year later: Singh suspect remains at large (http://ebar.com/common/inc/article_print.php?sec=news&article=3309)

Its clear that the attacks were more than just Muslim-on-Gay. Could this "Slavic Evangelical Movement" been playing a part? I dunno.

We should be clear about one thing though, these attacks were not about "having a party during Ramadan". They were clearely homophobic in nature.


.... If you like I would be quite happy to explain to you by PM, in strict confidence, just how much I have been prepared to "rock the boat" when I saw fit - you may be surprised (on the other hand, you may just be bored!).

I'll take your word for it.

The anti gay protesters shouted "kill the gays". That clear enough for you?

Very clear - however, as usual, you have edited the post and modified what was said: "protesters shouting "kill the gays" and "Allahu Akbar"".


We should be clear about one thing though, these attacks were not about "having a party during Ramadan". They were clearely homophobic in nature.

I think the addition of just one word would should satisfy most of us: "....these attacks were not only about "having a party during Ramadan"". I will leave it at that.