Smart Political Move

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_new ... ?id=130822 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=130822)

Who controls Thai Politics

[Geezer]

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The article reports, тАЬThe new political party held a meeting to appoint its executives and revise its policy and regulationsтАжтАЭ

Possible only in Thailand?

Hundreds of message board posts indicate I am not alone in rolling eyes at the caricature of democracy used in attempts to govern Thailand.

At times I have found myself wondering how it is possible for a people to be so blind? Did Nature infuse Falangs (or at least some of us) with Perception, and Nobility which were denied other tribes?

An article in todayтАЩs Bangkok Post could disabuse Falangs of such chauvinistic thoughts. I found it helpful. Perhaps you will.

The article is a bit long, but very well conceived. If, like myself, you are an eye roller I think you should read it all. If you donтАЩt, I think you should at least see this final paragraph. The last sentence hit me where it hurt.

тАЬFor those who are understanding, we thank you. For those who are not, please take no offence. You don't have to help us, or support us, constructive criticisms are welcomed and appreciated. But beg your pardon, please do not insult us. Especially if you are a guest in our country.тАЭ

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/t ... ?id=130820 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=130820)

Thanks so much for correcting the link Sanook. I feel this is an important article. It has changed my thinking.

That link doesn't work, try this one:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/t ... ?id=130820 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=130820)

But beg your pardon, please do not insult us. Especially if you are a guest in our country.

I agree with the writer a hundred percent. But I suspect it is not going to change the general tenor of comments on this forum. Check out "baziel" on "Learning Thai" for one example among thousands.

The writer of the article overlooks the small matter than the overwhelming majority of those against the PAD aren't disrespectful farang but his fellow Thais. The teething problem with democracy he refers to is the fact that a majority of his fellow citizens disagree with him, and would re-elect the current Govenment tomorrow if there were an election.

Why? Because most Thais are kept shit poor to enhance the buying power of the middle class supporters of the PAD. Taksin represented change to poor Thais because at least a little bit of money started flowing in their direction. Not just the 30 baht health scheme, but affordable housing with cheap loans. There are huge estates of tiny pre-fab house all around Isaan. They are known locally as Taksin houses. They fill me with horror (how the hell would you find your house when you're drunk), but the fill poor Thais with hope.

It is the PAD who are arrogant towards the majority of their fellow citizens, not the farang.

[Geezer]

тАЬThe writer of the article overlooks the small matter than the overwhelming majority of those against the PAD aren't disrespectful farang but his fellow Thais.тАЭ

I donтАЩt think the writer said otherwise.

The writer (who admits being PAD) wrote:
"There is no democracy to undermine. We never had it. Democracy isn't just about going to the poll and voting. Democracy isn't about smiling as you are getting screwed over once again. That may be fine for countries with healthy, but imperfect democracy. But here, in this corner of the Third World, we are tired of taking it lying down and are simply saying enough is enough."

i.e. the wishes of the majority of my fellow Thais who consistently vote for Taksin and his sucessors don't count because I don't like their choice. Note, the writer doesn't specify how he's being "screwed over" or what it is he is "tired of taking lying down". This is empty rhetoric to justify surplanting the wishes of the majority of his fellow countymen.

For myself, I couldn't stand Taksin. The brutality of his war against drugs and the treatment of Muslim demonstrators in the South appalled me. He put forward populist policies on which he failed to deliver. The fact that such a Governmemt was still the best thing that had ever happened to the Thai underclass speaks volumes for what self-serving shits his predecessors were. And, if the PAD get their way, his sucessors will follow the same self-serving policies. Nice for the writer of the article. Nice for most farang who will also benefit from the low prices cheap labour brings. Not nice for the majority of the Thai people.

I don't tend to worry about Thai politics unless it effects the price of beer and boys

The fact that such a Governmemt was still the best thing that had ever happened to the Thai underclass speaks volumes for what self-serving shits his predecessors were.I think you are somewhat mischaracterising Chuan Leekpai's Democrat government who were handed the poison chalice of attempting to repair the Thai economy after the 1997 crisis, which largely came about through the foolishness of the previous Thai governments and their loose monetary policies. To some extent Toxin's Tai Rak Tai ("Thailand for the Thais") chauvinism was a reaction against what the Thais conceived was external meddling by the IMF. I recall reading an op-ed piece by one of Chula's political commentators in the mid nineties that characterised Thai political parties (and he also said with the exception of the Democrats) as the political arm of various organised crime bodies. The father of Chatichai, who was PM when I first settled in Thailand, was notorious as army commander of the North, organising the opium trade - you can read all about that in Seagrave's Lords of the Rim - http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Rim-Sterlin ... 0399140115 (http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Rim-Sterling-Seagrave/dp/0399140115)

Stand by for Chao Na to start frothing at the mouth, as Seagrave's book is about the economic dominance of the Chinese diaspora around South East Asia. The Lad sees this as merely a bit of racism; the Chinese being such hard-working chaps it's all just envy, isn't it. Interestingly when Chao Na was writing as boygeenyus he claimed his long-time boyfriend is ethnically Lao; when he was writing as Singapore Sexpat the boyfriend had been transformed into ethnically Chinese. One wouldn't for a moment suggest that The Lad is wearing some sort of blinker

Now we have the PTP?

I wish I could get a program to keep track of all the players.

Homintern wrote:
I think you are somewhat mischaracterising Chuan Leekpai's Democrat government

His first administration was pretty much as corrupt and self-serving as any other. Certainly did bugger all to help poor Thai. His second administration tackled the economic crisis competently - but then the main losers from that were the Thai middle classes. He built up economic capital which Taksin then, to a very limited degree, distributed down. But would Leekpai have distributed down anything at all? His attitude toward the dam protesters suggests not.

And which Thai government (including Taksin's) has ever developed long-term strategies to improve the lot of the poor - e.g. through effective, properly funded education; and through a proper strategy for developing native Thai industry.

And which Thai government (including Taksin's) has ever developed long-term strategies to improve the lot of the poor - e.g. through effective, properly funded education; and through a proper strategy for developing native Thai industry.Absolutely none - and they have A Certain Person to thank for that. While there continues to be no leadership from the very top on this, no Thai government will ever do anything about educating the masses. The bars will continue to be full of the rural poor ("what else can poor people do?' as one of the Thai disapora presciently remarked to me) hocking their bodies to any passing tourist. Most Thais I know abroad (and I know quite a few, people's boyfriends and so on) ever want to come back here and live unless they've made their money abroad and can do so in the comfort they know they would never have attained had they stayed where they were. As one of them (in London) said to me "all those bloody Khunyings and all that crap". I assumed he wasn't talking about our own Thanpuying Sanitree na Pakin

homintern, you speak with straight tongue, well said chap.

One should also remember that Toxsin owes Chavilit ( possible the next deputy Prime Minister) as it was the latter who told Toxsin that he was going to devalue the Baht a few days before he did so when Prime Minister back in 1997. Both parties were seen and recorded as being in Hong Kong buying up dollars by the suitcase load which when changed back into Baht after devaluation made them both even more millions. Chavilit is also recorded as making his initial wealth charging refugees gold to cross the borders of Thailand when he was a serving general a few decades ago.

homintern, you speak with straight tongue, well said chap.Chao Na will be long in a moment to tell us why ignorance is in their best interests

homintern, you speak with straight tongue, well said chap.Chao Na will be long in a moment to tell us why ignorance is in their best interests

Seems to work well enough for you, dear.

Homi. you were admirably discrete. And it looks like His true identity is safe.

Both parties were seen and recorded as being in Hong Kong buying up dollars by the suitcase load which when changed back into Baht after devaluation made them both even more millions.

Really, is that so? Certainly there would have been a better way of profiting from such knowledge than actually buying bank notes and putting them in a suitcase. Don'cha think? Like, maybe, just wiring all your money into a dollar account overseas? Not nearly as dramatic, though, as the image you generate of Chavilit and Thaksin walking up to an exchange counter in Hong Kong and asking for $1 billion dollars in cash. Of course, you know full well how many suitcases it would take to carry any really meaningful amount of US cash -- don't you?

Really, is that so? Certainly there would have been a better way of profiting from such knowledge than actually buying bank notes and putting them in a suitcase. Don'cha think? Like, maybe, just wiring all your money into a dollar account overseas? Not nearly as dramatic, though, as the image you generate of Chavilit and Thaksin walking up to an exchange counter in Hong Kong and asking for $1 billion dollars in cash. Of course, you know full well how many suitcases it would take to carry any really meaningful amount of US cash -- don't you?

You should be on stage you are really funny especially wearing those blinkers of yours :bom: :bom: :bom:

Use your brain, you fool.

I'm not saying they did not benefit from the flotation -- they most likely did.

But your image of them flying personally to Hong Kong to change baht cash into US dollars cash to stuff into suitcases is the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

Hahaha you still have me in stitches! Perhaps I am an idiot as you so like to call all those that disagree with you or post something that doesnt go along your line of thought.
All the banking fraternity located in Hong Kong at the time must have seen a pair of doubles then too, but of course if you say it couldn't of happened then it obvioulsly didn't! The term 'a suitcase full of money' doesn't actually mean that they were walking along like Larual and Hardy cash in hand................ :clown:

Hahaha you still have me in stitches! Perhaps I am an idiot as you so like to call all those that disagree with you or post something that doesnt go along your line of thought.
All the banking fraternity located in Hong Kong at the time must have seen a pair of doubles then too, but of course if you say it couldn't of happened then it obvioulsly didn't! The term 'a suitcase full of money' doesn't actually mean that they were walking along like Larual and Hardy cash in hand................ :clown:

It is equally preposterous to assume these two men would have to have gone personally to Hong Kong to benefit from the situation. Rich people do not have to personally go anywhere to launder their funds, and they certainly don't do it in a way that visible to any kind of fraternity. You really are an idiot.

... but of course if you say it couldn't of happened then it obvioulsly didn't!Are you suggesting that I'm not the only member of the Board into arse-licking? But then I've always said that Chao Na's brown-nosing skills where an Asian authority figure is concerned are second to none

You really are an idiot.

Oh my oh my don't you like to throw insults around through a keyboard.....Meow :cheese:

This is an extract from the Nationmultimedia July 16th 2007.

" Some rich Thais took money offshore to Hong Kong and Singapore, depositing it in US dollars and shifting it back to Thailand to profit from the exchange rate differential. Some companies had gone so far as to open letters of credit in baht in order to speculate on the foreign exchange".

When you know 'how and who' there is always a way to further enrich oneself!

The writer (who admits being PAD) wrote:
"There is no democracy to undermine. We never had it. Democracy isn't just about going to the poll and voting. Democracy isn't about smiling as you are getting screwed over once again. That may be fine for countries with healthy, but imperfect democracy. But here, in this corner of the Third World, we are tired of taking it lying down and are simply saying enough is enough."

i.e. the wishes of the majority of my fellow Thais who consistently vote for Taksin and his sucessors don't count because I don't like their choice. Note, the writer doesn't specify how he's being "screwed over" or what it is he is "tired of taking lying down". This is empty rhetoric to justify surplanting the wishes of the majority of his fellow countymen.

For myself, I couldn't stand Taksin. The brutality of his war against drugs and the treatment of Muslim demonstrators in the South appalled me. He put forward populist policies on which he failed to deliver. The fact that such a Governmemt was still the best thing that had ever happened to the Thai underclass speaks volumes for what self-serving shits his predecessors were. And, if the PAD get their way, his sucessors will follow the same self-serving policies. Nice for the writer of the article. Nice for most farang who will also benefit from the low prices cheap labour brings. Not nice for the majority of the Thai people.

It must be kept firmly in mind that the current struggle is between the upperclass elite and elements of the middle class. Previously the struggles were generally within the elite.

You really are an idiot.

Oh my oh my don't you like to throw insults around through a keyboard.....Meow :cheese:

This is an extract from the Nationmultimedia July 16th 2007.

" Some rich Thais took money offshore to Hong Kong and Singapore, depositing it in US dollars and shifting it back to Thailand to profit from the exchange rate differential. Some companies had gone so far as to open letters of credit in baht in order to speculate on the foreign exchange".

When you know 'how and who' there is always a way to further enrich oneself!

I ACKNOWLEDGED that Thaksin and Chavalit probably benefited from the situation.

I RIDICULE your assertion that they did so in person, in cash, at banks in HK. It's ludicrous.

I RIDICULE your assertion

From reading most of your posts you seem to ridicule all who don't agree with your way of thinking. Perhaps when you have studied the mind set of Thais, both what they say in public and what they do (especially the politicians) then you might well realise that they do or have done many things that makes one scratch one's head. As politicians they would'nt last a second in other parts of the world, or as in Chavalits case a General in the army!!!!!!

Perhaps when you have studied the mind set of Thais, both what they say in public and what they do (especially the politicians) then you might well realise that they do or have done many things that makes one scratch one's head.The Lad rather prides himself on having lived in Thailand for the last twenty years - the same period as me - and understanding the Thais like no-one else
Come to think of it, that's true - his understanding of the Thais is like no-one else's :idea:

I RIDICULE your assertion

From reading most of your posts you seem to ridicule all who don't agree with your way of thinking. Perhaps when you have studied the mind set of Thais, both what they say in public and what they do (especially the politicians) then you might well realise that they do or have done many things that makes one scratch one's head. As politicians they would'nt last a second in other parts of the world, or as in Chavalits case a General in the army!!!!!!

I'm not ridiculing an opinion.

I am ridiculing your assertion that Chavalit and Thaksin traveled, in person, and in full view of the banking fraternity, to banks in HK to exchange suitcases full of Thai cash for suitcases full of American cash. The "in person" part, the cash part, the suitcase part -- all ludicrous. They would first have minions to do; second, no one would have to do it either in person or in cash.

I am ridiculing your assertion that Chavalit and Thaksin traveled, in person, and in full view of the banking fraternity, to banks in HK to exchange suitcases full of Thai cash for suitcases full of American cash. The "in person" part, the cash part, the suitcase part -- all ludicrous. They would first have minions to do; second, no one would have to do it either in person or in cash.

Yawn, yawn, yawn and another yawn

The writer (who admits being PAD) wrote:
"There is no democracy to undermine. We never had it. Democracy isn't just about going to the poll and voting. Democracy isn't about smiling as you are getting screwed over once again. That may be fine for countries with healthy, but imperfect democracy. But here, in this corner of the Third World, we are tired of taking it lying down and are simply saying enough is enough."

i.e. the wishes of the majority of my fellow Thais who consistently vote for Taksin and his sucessors don't count because I don't like their choice. Note, the writer doesn't specify how he's being "screwed over" or what it is he is "tired of taking lying down". This is empty rhetoric to justify surplanting the wishes of the majority of his fellow countymen.

For myself, I couldn't stand Taksin. The brutality of his war against drugs and the treatment of Muslim demonstrators in the South appalled me. He put forward populist policies on which he failed to deliver. The fact that such a Governmemt was still the best thing that had ever happened to the Thai underclass speaks volumes for what self-serving shits his predecessors were. And, if the PAD get their way, his sucessors will follow the same self-serving policies. Nice for the writer of the article. Nice for most farang who will also benefit from the low prices cheap labour brings. Not nice for the majority of the Thai people.

Agreed 100%, Homesick.

Like HC and Geezer, the author seems oblivious to who is actually opposing the PAD (rather than necessarily supporting Thaksin); many rural Thais I know no longer support Thaksin & Co as blindly as before, but they are well aware that if the PAD has its way then "democracy" in Thailand will be a thing of the past, as the vast majority of those "elected" will be "elected" by a very small fraction of the people, whose interests are best served by keeping the poor as poor and uneducated as they are now.

The PAD are frightened of Thaksin & Co because their positions of power have been threatened; where a vote previously cost a bucket, or a bag of rice, now the rural voters expect more, such as health care and education and that is not part of the PAD agenda.

It is very convenient to say that "foreigners" do not understand the problems, not least because it is easy to use it as a defence against anyone attacking them. Had the PAD proposed their 70/30 split in the elected government before the election they would have had some credibility (but, probably, less votes) - doing so after they lost gives them none.

The author is typical of some of the PAD's supporters, who genuinely believe that they know what is best for the country "rich, middle and poor" because they are better educated and more "conscious" than the rural poor who they consider too uneducated and backward to know what is good for them and that they are being conned. Regrettably while the poor are clever enough to know they are being conned, but also now realistic enough to choose the conman who will do them most good, those like the author are not:

"But allow me to speak for the average Thai person - rich, middle and poor - we marched simply because we have had enough тАж.. Granted, a lot of us aren't even sure what we're fighting for, a lot of us are simply venting frustrations and anger, but at least we're conscious and alive enough to stand up and fight."



It must be kept firmly in mind that the current struggle is between the upperclass elite and elements of the middle class.

So all those reporting it, Thai and foreign, as a struggle between the "upperclass elite" supported by "elements of the middle class", against the rural poor have got it wrong? What country are you referring to? Not Thailand, certainly.

Read MY comment more closely. Don't read anything INTO it.

It must be kept firmly in mind that the current struggle is between the upperclass elite and elements of the middle class. Previously the struggles were generally within the elite.


So all those reporting it, Thai and foreign, as a struggle between the "upperclass elite" supported by "elements of the middle class", against the rural poor have got it wrong? What country are you referring to? Not Thailand, certainly.


Read MY comment more closely. Don't read anything INTO it.

I did. Your comment, as written, is very clearly that "the current struggle is between the upperclass elite" (on one side) "and elements of the middle class" (on the other). You exclude the rural poor (the PPP's main supporters and power base) entirely.

While I agree that "previously the struggles were generally within the elite", the main part of your comment is contrary to every report I have read in both the Thai and foreign press and to my own observation and conversation with Thais, where the view is consistently that it is a conflict between the PPP (supported mainly by the rural poor) and the PAD (supported mainly by the urban elite and middle class).

As I said: Have all those reporting it got it wrong? What country are you referring to?

I don't include 'the rural poor' amoung the struggling parties because they are the element that is being struggled FOR. The group that gets the votes of the rural poor will rule Thailand. That is why the PAD wants to do away with democracy and the PPP is desperatly trying to keep it.

That is as clear as I can state it.

Those of the 'middle class' that support the PAD don't understand where they fit, in Thai society. Taksin does understand and was well on his way to wresting power from the elite. It may eventually come to pass, but not yet.

With regard to your concluding sentance: I will ignore your unsuccessful attempts at sarcasm.

This is my last post on this subject.

This is my last post on this subject.

Thank God!