Carrying your ID, at least a new option for U.S. travellers

[Davey612]

A long time (years) ago, I had dinner with Allen of pattayagay. As you all know, he is (or was) a teacher of law in Thailand. We were debating, as always, the practicality of carrying a passport all the time. He went to his back pocket and showed us his worn out passport. He always carried it.

Most of us don't do that since we consider that unsafe. However, at least for U.S. citizens, we now have the option of a U.S. passport card. It is basically a U.S. passport in the form of an I.D. card to allow U.S. citizens to cross into Canada, Mexico, or go on a cruise ship. I think having this card while travelling in Thailand, and keeping the passport book safely in the hotel, should be a good solution to that dilemma.

[Narakmak]

A card would not show you are legally in Thailand, visa-wise.

A card would not show you are legally in Thailand, visa-wise.While that is true, strictly speaking the obligation is to show ID not visa status. Friends of mine who have temporary residence here often just carry their Thai driver's licence

[Bob]

I realize I'm in the minority but, like Allen, I've always just carried my passport with me when in LOS or other countries.
I also keep a photocopy of the two critical passport pages in my suitcase and in my wallet. I do try to always carry it in a secure (often buttoned) pocket or, when at the beach or swimming, in my camera bag which almost always is at my side. And, yea, it's a bit warn but it's time to get a new one next year anyway.

I have no clue if the new ID card would be accepted by the BIB.

Come to think of it, nobody other an airline ticket person, the hotel desk person, or immigration has ever asked to see my passport anyway.

[Davey612]

I have no clue if the new ID card would be accepted by the BIB.

Come to think of it, nobody other an airline ticket person, the hotel desk person, or immigration has ever asked to see my passport anyway.

It is better than the practice of making a copy of the first page of a passport and laminating it. At least, it is an official ID issued by the U.S. government.

[Dodger]

I always have a two-sided photo of my passport (wallet size) made for me at a local Office Max. Side one is my Passport (main page) and side two is a copy of my Visa. I have this reduced to wallet size and laminated, all for a whopping $1.50.

I've been stopped several times by the BIB for motocy violations and they never questioned the card, except for the time I offered one of them an orange colored Monopoly Game $500 bill as a bribe.

My real passport/visa never see the outside of my room safe.

The passport always stays in the safe. Laminated copies of the key pages are in the wallet along with my driverтАЩs license id. Have yet to have to produce id, even when passing through police and military check points. If necessary, I expect that a carefully folded 500 baht note will provide a tertiary level of identification.

Thanks Davey. It will certainly be worth 20 bucks to be able not to lose my passport just driving up to Canada.

[Smiles]

I laminate (to wallet size) the two relevent pages in my passport (i.e. the photo page and the signature page) as well as my O-A Visa page.
Granted, I guess if any official wanted to get highly and nastily technical about it these laminated copies would probably be no good, but for most occasions they'd probably be OK until production of the original later. Never tested it ... never been asked.

Cheers ...

[painai2]

I used the laminated photocopy to show the police when they were having an id check of foreigners at Wild West Boys last year. Initially he didn't want to accept it but then let me go. The ones without any form of id were taken away in the police car.

[francois]

I have no clue if the new ID card would be accepted by the BIB.

It is better than the practice of making a copy of the first page of a passport and laminating it. At least, it is an official ID issued by the U.S. government.

A very good suggestion, Davey.
Often, the wallet size laminated copies are difficult to read, especially the passport number.

[bing]

Before traveling I send an email to myself with attchment of Passport picture and drivers license. I usually carry a photo copy, of pic page at 110% enlargement, and also visa paper on another pice of paper. I only need them for 2 or 3 weeks so I don't laminate them just fold up and put in back pocket and button it well. So far I have never needed to show them for ID. I also mentioned my way to Allen, he did not think it was a good idea.

[quiet1]

I think there are two different scenarios to consider. The one being described above, so far, has been if the BIB, i.e. the regular city or highway police, asks for ID.

A different, and much rarer I think, scenario is if you are stopped by, or for some reason turned over to, the Immigrations Police. Immigrations will want to see your passport (not a copy) and your TM.6 and entry stamp, and they will want to see it *now*. My understanding is that Thai immigrations law requires foreigners to carry their passport on their person at all times.

The city/highway police don't care so much about your immigrations status, they want ID, whereas the Immigrations Police most definitely are interested in your immigrations status.

... states "Foreigners are required to carry identification at all times." It says nothing about that identification being a passport and goes on at length about the precautions needed to safeguard the passport. Other countries I believe say the same. I happened to stumble across the Australian site when I Googled; I'm not promoting them as the guide one should instinctively choose

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/ ... e/thailand (http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/advice/thailand)

I've been carrying a photoid from my place of work when in Thailand. I've never had my theory that it is sufficient tested.

[TrongpaiExpat]

One time I was entering Cambodia from Thailand and I had forget to bring some 2x2 visa photos. I gave them my work photo ID and said they could use it for the photo. They looked at it, passed it around, and then apparently having no idea what it was just assumed I was someone important. They fast tracked me ahead of everyone and gave me a salute and handed me back the photo ID. The other farangs in line gave me the who the hell is he look.

[Narakmak]

A card would not show you are legally in Thailand, visa-wise.While that is true, strictly speaking the obligation is to show ID not visa status. Friends of mine who have temporary residence here often just carry their Thai driver's licence
I think you will find that the law states all foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times. Most don't for obvious reasons. But I do believe the law states passports specifically.

[Davey612]

I think you will find that the law states all foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times. Most don't for obvious reasons. But I do believe the law states passports specifically.

If you insist in carrying your passport book with you, then keep you passport ID locked away in the hotel. If your passport book is stolen, then you can take the passport ID to the U.S. embassy as identification and for a replacement passport book. See the following comment from the U.S. State Department:

"Is there any reason why someone might want to get a traditional passport and a passport card?
Says the spokesman, Royster, "Some people like the convenience of having a reliable ID they can walk around with in their pocket or purse." When applying for a new job, a driver's license, a marriage certificate, or conducting financial transactions, you may need to show copies of your birth certificate. Now, instead, you can carry a passport card, which is valid in all states as a way to confirm your identity and citizenship. A tip: If you apply for both at the same time or if you already have a valid passport, you can get a passport card for an additional $20."

In either case, it is a win-win situation, given that it only cost $20 for current passport holders.

[dab69]

how can anyone disagree with an avatar as handsome as that? (Davey612)

I think you will find that the law states all foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times. Most don't for obvious reasons. But I do believe the law states passports specifically.I guess that's why the various Embassies don't state that explicitly - they are ignorant of Thai law, and merely state that foreigners must carry identification. If you find the advisory from your Embassy doesn't explicitly say "passport", perhaps you could write to them and point out their mistake?

[Narakmak]

I never carry my passport with me unless traveling. I am merely stating the law. It is not widely enforced, obviously.

I never carry my passport with me unless traveling. I am merely stating the law. It is not widely enforced, obviously.As I was merely stating that it is not the law, which is why the Embassies don't state it. The law is that you carry identification - Thais or foreigners

[Bob]

The law is that you carry identification - Thais or foreigners

I can't quote you chapter and verse, Homi, but I was talking with an immigration officer once in Chiangmai and he told me that the law is that every person in Thailand must carry their official ID card. For Thai citizens, you know what that is; for foreigners, he said it was the foreigner's original passport with the visa/stamp allowing one to be in Thailand.

I can't quote you chapter and verse, Homi, but I was talking with an immigration officer once in Chiangmai and he told me that the law is that every person in Thailand must carry their official ID card. For Thai citizens, you know what that is; for foreigners, he said it was the foreigner's original passport with the visa/stamp allowing one to be in Thailand.I have absolutely no doubt you are quoting him correctly. However, if you read posts on Thai immigration officials and their various interpretations of the visa regulations, detailed in the Forum, you should quickly realise that, like everything else in Thailand, what the law says and its enforcement is, in that English phrase popular among the Thais "up to you". Personally I'd put more faith in the various foreign embassies' statements of the legal obligations of their citizens while in Thailand than in any statement of a Thai official on, frankly, any topic you care to name

[Bob]

Personally I'd put more faith in the various foreign embassies' statements of the legal obligations of their citizens while in Thailand than in any statement of a Thai official on, frankly, any topic you care to name

While I realize there is probably little risk to us not carrying the passports all the time, I did just google the concept and see that the Australian, Irish, and a couple other embassy websites make it very clear that Thai law says you must carry your passport with you at all times. I can't seem to google any Thai site in English that says the same thing but I can't believe the stated embassies would have it wrong.

I did just google the concept and see that the Australian, Irish, and a couple other embassy websites make it very clear that Thai law says you must carry your passport with you at all times. I can't seem to google any Thai site in English that says the same thing but I can't believe the stated embassies would have it wrong.Au contraire, Bob, if you scroll back through this thread you will see I have quoted, with link, that the Australian site, called "smarttraveller" actually says "identification", not "passport"

[Wesley]

The American embassy says not to carry your passport with you ever, I assume the hotel or, guest hosue will run you off a copy of the pages you need for the BIB and a date to look at as to what boys that are legal. while you are there. I do get confused with the thia calendar. Since I plan to spend time in Sunnee more this time around, I geuess I need to doublecheck. Am I responsible if they have fake ID or the guy I wonder?

Wes

[Bob]

I might have misrecognized the one website....it's www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/thailand (http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/thailand)

And in part that page states: "By law, tourists are expected to carry their passports with them at all times in Thailand. There have been incidents where tourists have been arrested because they were unable to produce their passport."

Guess that's your home country's site?

[Wesley]

Wes, I would think if the guy has fake ID its not your responsibility - unless he's underage. They don't care whether you've checked or not in those cases. New Thai ID cards are in English as well as Thai now. You can deduct 543 from the year of birth to get the western year.

damn , now I need a calculator... lol joking. I ssume the mamasaun will check all that and I will check behind her. I actually had a Thai guy that was my gay tour guide for me to get one wrong, the ambiance hotel was quck to catch it though. God that boy looked more than 18. You certainly can't go by looks.

Thai law/requirement is specific. It requires; the Thai should carry their indetifcation all the time. For Thais "Indentification" means the national ID card ... not a photocopy. Likewise, the foreigners must carry their indentification. The only document that a recognized identification when a foreigner enters the country is passport. Therefore, for the foreigners the indentifcation is their valid passport with the authorization to enter and remain in Thailand is the visa. Nowhere it states a copy of the identification. So guys let us respect the laws of the land we are in ...... It is the passport with a valid/stamped visa ... so you better carry it with you all the time. Thais are not concerned about our government says ... we dont run their country

I might have misrecognized the one website....in part that page states: "By law, tourists are expected to carry their passports with them at all times in Thailand. There have been incidents where tourists have been arrested because they were unable to produce their passport." Guess that's your home country's site?Indeed it is. Sadly (for your argument), I am not a tourist. I will however rush off and tell all my ex-pat friends who only carry their Thai driver's licence what poor demented fools they are. As a matter of interest, which of the sites you googled mentioned that taking a photocopy of your passport with you (whether laminated or otherwise) is acceptable to the Thai authorities? I'm guessing here but as Embassies are populated by conservative (lazy?) creatures I suspect they don't want to get into endless arguments with the cretins who make up the bulk of tourists as to what alternative ID is acceptable; it's easier to say "passport" and be done with it. I assume you did look up the smarttraveller site too?

And I wonder how many advocates of "respecting the law" on this forum have slept with underage boys!Or had sex with guys in their own or other countries when same gender sex was illegal. The amount of self-deceipt that goes on among gay men on this topic is truly staggering. Do they somehow imagine that it wasn't a criminal act because they were one of the participants?

There are plenty of documented cases of farangs without passports being detained during police raids on bars and removed to police stations. I've also heard second hand reports of 20,000 baht fines for foreigners not in possession of passports on trains, being imposed by railway police during spot checks on passengers.I think you'll find that "there are plenty of documented cases of farangs without" ID such as passports "being detained during police raids on bars and removed to police stations." Simply repeating such stories doesn't make the details true

[bing]

I checked on the Passport Card in USA, it is scheduled to be available in fall of 2008, but seems it is not in use yet, at least for the moment. It is clearly stated on the web site. is not to be used in place of a passport in most foreign countries. Its purpose is for those who cross the northern or southern borders often, and also for some cruse ship trips.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I am not a tourist. I will however rush off and tell all my ex-pat friends who only carry their Thai driver's licence what poor demented fools they are.

Sure, well if you really do have friends then they are already demented fools.

I checked on the Passport Card in USA, it is scheduled to be available in fall of 2008, but seems it is not in use yet, at least for the moment. It is clearly stated on the web site. is not to be used in place of a passport in most foreign countries. Its purpose is for those who cross the northern or southern borders often, and also for some cruse ship trips.And does it say that people can have both a passport and a passport card?

Yes, you can have both.

travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html)


Keep in mind, you still will need a valid passport for air travel.

travel.state.gov/pdf/ppt_pptCard.pdf (http://travel.state.gov/pdf/ppt_pptCard.pdf)


Questions and Answers on the passport card:

travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3921.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3921.html)

[Davey612]

Yes, you can have both.



That is why I said it cost $20 for current passport holders.

I did not expect the traffic generated by this simple suggestion. I know it is not a replacement for a passport for entry purposes, but, as I said before, it is an ID recognized by the U.S. government.

I am going a bit offtopic, but I predict this ID will become the national ID that a lot of U.S. libertarians seem to oppose. Who knows, given that information is stored in central computer systems, we may be moving to a future where no passport books are necessary because all the required information is embedded in an ID card. A worldwide big brother?

Davey

The driver's license, and the non-driver license id issued at the state level, has already become the de facto national id due to the linkage of databases in the name of home land security.

The Passport Card is unlikely to become a national id for the foreseeable future due to the low percentage of Americans who have a passport.

[alittlebi-old]

However, at least for U.S. citizens, we now have the option of a U.S. passport card. It is basically a U.S. passport in the form of an I.D. card to allow U.S. citizens to cross into Canada, Mexico, or go on a cruise ship. I think having this card while travelling in Thailand, and keeping the passport book safely in the hotel, should be a good solution to that dilemma.

My card arrived last week. A few things to note ... kind of FYI ....

1. The card does NOT have your passport number on it. They are actually considered two different documents and neither references the other (except in official government databases of course).

2. NO BODY is going to know what the card is -- most likely, assuming it is "fake". It is too new.




A card would not show you are legally in Thailand, visa-wise.While that is true, strictly speaking the obligation is to show ID not visa status. Friends of mine who have temporary residence here often just carry their Thai driver's licence

That is correct. I carry my Thai Drivers License as my ID and have used it for everything from checking into domestic airlines (in Thailand) and checking into hotels. The license does have your passport number on it -- and the new licenses are in both Thai and English which is much nicer. Theoretically BIB would be more inclined to pass over you if you can show some type of ID and you can show you have a valid stamp. Unless of course, you piss them off. :)


Lastly, everyone that does not carry their passport that I know -- always carries SOME type of ID. And it really is suggested to carry a photocopy of the immigration stamp.

The only document that a recognized identification when a foreigner enters the country is passport. Therefore, for the foreigners the indentifcation is their valid passport with the authorization to enter and remain in Thailand is the visa.

As usual, utter rubbish. Yes, a passport and visa are obviously required "when a foreigner enters the country", but that does not mean it is the only acceptable or valid form of identity once in the country. Thai driving licences, as several posters have pointed out, are valid under Thai law (ask the BIB - I did), although you may be required to show your passport and valid visa at a main police station/immigration office within three days.

[Geezer]

тАЬThai driving licences, as several posters have pointed out, are valid under Thai law (ask the BIB - I did), although you may be required to show your passport and valid visa at a main police station/immigration office within three days.тАЭ

Could you please translate that into Thai, and post it? IтАЩll print it, and the next time it wonтАЩt cost me 500 bt.

[alittlebi-old]

тАЬThai driving licences, as several posters have pointed out, are valid under Thai law (ask the BIB - I did), although you may be required to show your passport and valid visa at a main police station/immigration office within three days.тАЭ

Could you please translate that into Thai, and post it? IтАЩll print it, and the next time it wonтАЩt cost me 500 bt.

I think it would be much more beneficial if you were to share the situation in which you paid 500b. I searched for posts under your username and couldn't find any posts related to ID. Perhaps I missed it ... but such a post would be relevant here IMO.

And secondly, I think many of us have paid "fines" that we didn't feel were deserved or were higher than they should have been; but all things considered - the "fine" was a cheap and easy "out" and we paid it and moved on.

[Geezer]

"I think it would be much more beneficial if you were to share the situation in which you paid 500b."

I was traveling to Khorat with a farang friend (who is well known and active in charitable activities) and his Thai friend who was driving. In the countryside we came upon a road block consisting of perhaps three or four police cars and ten to fifteen policemen. As this occurred six, or seven years ago I am no longer certain of the numbers. At any rate it was a sizeable operation, with one or two senior officers in charge.

We were directed to one side where an officer walked around our car inspecting it. He interviewed the driver, then asked for my passport. I told him I had a copy. "Copy?", he said brightening noticeably, "Copy no good." He indicated 500 bt. was required. I gave him the тАЬfineтАЬ, and we were cleared to proceed.

As my falang friend was not asked for his passport, I assume the extraction of 500 bt., rather than law enforcement, was the intention of the exercise.

As my falang friend was not asked for his passport, I assume the extraction of 500 bt., rather than law enforcement, was the intention of the exercise.Chao Na would have refused to pay. As I understand it he believes such things don't happen anyway (not that I bother reading someone who knows so little about Thailand any more)

They do happen, but only a schmuck would give into them (assuming he is in the right).