is Cuba our new paradise ?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Fidel Castro's neice Mariela Castro Esp├нn is an active supporter of gay rights in Cuba and few people realise that anti-sodomy laws were struck down in Cuba 25 years ago.

I read a recent interview with Fidel ( can't find the link now)..in which he said he's never had a problem with gays or lesbians and couldn't have given a damn what people did sexually ( afterall-he was a middle class revolutionary !) . The problem was-many of those closest to him still had lots of the old Spanish machismo and they were gay opponents. But native Cubans were always a pretty raunchy lot

Many wonder what is going to happen after Fidel dies-he's brother Raul is a well known old drunk but there's no way Fidel would leave a vacuum for Cuba to fall apart ( more than it has) after he dies. He is in the end-very practical. I know from friends in the Bahamas that his son is over there constantly arranging deals with international hotel chains , tourism companies etc to turn Cuba into a prime tourism resort.

If anyone ever went to Peurto Rico before it became a bit dangerous-and hit some of the little clubs in San Juan or out along the beaches they will know that those Latin boys sometimes make Sunnee Plaza / Boystown look very tame.

that water looks a lot cleaner than Jomtien !
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/lunchtimeobooze/gay_cuba_beach7.jpg






http://www.gaycuba.ca/together/

[Marsilius]

...that water looks a lot cleaner than Jomtien !
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/lunchtimeobooze/gay_cuba_beach7.jpg






http://www.gaycuba.ca/together/

And the average age of the guys on the beach looks, at the very most, about half of that of their Jomtien counterparts!

[toprogueca-old]

lets hope your right ...all this and no americans...sounds like heaven

[francois]

Many wonder what is going to happen after Fidel dies-he's brother Raul is a well known old drunk
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/lunchtimeobooze/gay_cuba_beach7.jpg
http://www.gaycuba.ca/together/

Now,now Mr. O'Booze, no need to pass jugement on another old, well known, fellow drunk! At least that may be a redeeming qualit├й.

check out dominican republic too when you have a mo.

At the very least:

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Cuban-Revolution-Allen-Young/dp/0912516615

And then you have to think that Cuba is still like the old USSR. There are two classes of citizens: those with hard currency, and those who have been subject to fifty years of "freedom" under Castro.

Try looking at http://www.babalublog.com/.

There is a huge difference between the boys in Thailand and the boys in Cuba: the former have made some progress with the help of the government, while the boys in Cuba have made none. So they are probably desperate.

But no credit goes to the Castros, who supposedly made a revolution because prostitution pissed them off. Now they are billionaire "Socialists" busily pimping their own people.

People are weird.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/arts/2005/07/images/0706dance.jpg
Isn't he lovely? Carlos Acosta mmmmmmm yummy but straight so I hear
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/programmes/images/Carlos_Acosta1.jpg
You know in certain lights he looks a bit like Smiles' bloke!

So they are probably desperate.

Sounds ideal.

[dab69]

saw a movie about a gay cuban who went to jail and wrote a book while there.

I'm prepared to promote anywhere if it means fewer Americans in Thailand :cyclopsani:

....I read a recent interview with Fidel ( can't find the link now)..in which he said he's never had a problem with gays or lesbians and couldn't have given a damn what people did sexually ( afterall-he was a middle class revolutionary !) . The problem was-many of those closest to him still had lots of the old Spanish machismo and they were gay opponents. But native Cubans were always a pretty raunchy lot...

What a load of horse doo-doo!
Take a look at this gem from wikipedia LGBT Rights in Cuba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba)

"...Following the 1959 revolution, CubaтАЩs communist government embarked upon a pervasive effort to rid the nation of homosexuality, which was seen as a product of a capitalist society. Through the 1960s and 1970s this campaign included the frequent imprisonment of lesbians and gays (particularly effeminate males) without charge or trial, and confinement to forced labor camps...."

And even though his daughter want you to believe everything is nice and sunny look at this:

"...According to the World Policy Institute (2003), the Cuban government prohibits LGBT organizations and publications, gay pride marches and gay clubs. All officially sanctioned clubs and meeting places are required to be heterosexual. The only gay and lesbian civil rights organization, the Cuban Association of Gays and Lesbians, which formed in 1994, was closed in 1997 and its members were taken into custody. Private gay parties, named for their price of admission, тАЬ10 PesosтАЭ, exist but are often raided. In 1997, Agencia de Prensa Independiente de Cuba (the Cuban Independent Press Agency) reported, that Spanish filmmaker Pedro Almodovar and French designer Jean Paul Gaultier were among several hundred people detained in a raid on HavanaтАЩs most popular gay discotheque, El Periquiton...."

Oh well, that old fucker is going to die pretty soon and if President Obama plays things right Cuba very well could become a new popular gay destination.

Without knowing the truth about GLBT rights in Cuba, its worth noting that Wikipedia is often quoted on this forum (including by me), almost as if it the ultimate authority, when in reality a registered member (with some limitations) can write or alter entries when ever they wish, not necessarily writing the truth. There have been numerous reports of vested interests doing this on wikepedia - just something to bear in mind when quoting it.Wikipedia now has mechanisms in place to monitor this type of action

Although I find it difficult to believe that Wikipedia would allow ANY anti-Castro comments, in this case the truth did manage to creep in.

Of course, all bets are off now that Raul has discovered another source of $billions.

[Marsilius]

Without knowing the truth about GLBT rights in Cuba, its worth noting that Wikipedia is often quoted on this forum (including by me), almost as if it the ultimate authority, when in reality a registered member (with some limitations) can write or alter entries when ever they wish, not necessarily writing the truth. There have been numerous reports of vested interests doing this on wikepedia - just something to bear in mind when quoting it.

Not only, as has been observed, does Wikipedia now have better systems in place to prevent abuse, but it has been claimed that it actually benefits from the "wisdom of crowds" phenomenon. For those who haven't read James Surowiecki's "The Wisdom of Crowds: Why the Many are smarter than the Few", I will explain...

Fill a big jar with pennies and ask people to judge how many are inside. Most will be - often wildly - wrong. Maybe one in 1,000 will be spot on. But, if you take your guessers' guesses all together and average out the figures, the resulting answer is very often almost or exactly bang on! In other words, human beings are often "wiser" communally as a crowd than when acting as individuals. There are all sorts of other examples, as Surowiecki demonstrates, where the same phenomenon is apparent.

I was reading an article about Wikipedia the other day and it was claimed that, as a repository of our collective wisdom, it is actually superior to other encyclopediae. Taken the improved monitoring as read, I guess that, to put it simply, if many people contribute to an article it will be more balanced, fuller and more comprehensive than one penned by a single individual with his own personal selection of material to include and his almost unavoidable personal bias.

Without knowing the truth about GLBT rights in Cuba, its worth noting that Wikipedia is often quoted on this forum (including by me), almost as if it the ultimate authority, when in reality a registered member (with some limitations) can write or alter entries when ever they wish, not necessarily writing the truth. There have been numerous reports of vested interests doing this on wikepedia - just something to bear in mind when quoting it.Wikipedia now has mechanisms in place to monitor this type of action

While it's true that a review mechanism is in place any such mechanism is prone to corruption, peer cliquism etc. Wikipaedia should not be cited as some ultimate truth on everything. Look at the trouble caused by the other two books their followers claim that for them. (News just in: Anglican Primate to apologise to Darwin! Hoo bloody rah - I channelled Charles this morning and he commented that 150 years isn't very long in evolutionary terms)

I think Wikipaedia is a nice scoping tool to quickly read into a subject one is unfamiliar with before going to the current literature. It's a pity that some internet discussion cites it as ultimate, frozen truth whilst much of it is opinion from a perspective and it is often distilled to easily accessible essences.

...I think Wikipaedia is a nice scoping tool to quickly read into a subject one is unfamiliar with before going to the current literature. It's a pity that some internet discussion cites it as ultimate, frozen truth whilst much of it is opinion from a perspective and it is often distilled to easily accessible essences.

Yes.
I use Wikipedia because it's quick and dirty to get fast info for a online discussion. I figure if anyone has a problem with the info they can always look further on their own but it's my feeling that no one really bothers.

In this particular case what I quoted jibes with my recollections on the subject and my memories of the Mariel Boatlift when Castro unloaded a lot of his "undesireables" (and many gays) on us. I'm too lazy to spend a couple of hours trolling around "Human Rights Watch" or Amnesty International" websites looking for more specific information or additional confirmations.

Might I also point out that it's just as lazy to wave one's hand and say "Aw, Wikipedia is a bunch of BS " and dismiss a posting withought offering other information or sources to contradict it?

Can we go there with our US passports yet?

[Narakmak]

Can we go there with our US passports yet?
You can't go from the US directly. It is illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba (there are press exceptions, etc.). The way to do it is to fly to Cancun Mexico and then fly to Havana from there. Ask the Cubans not to stamp your passport. The ban is from the US, not from Cuba. They don't care. If you do get a Cuban stamp on your passpot, you've got a big problem. And of course, when you fly back to the US, don't say you were in Cuba. There is no US embassy there.

[guyforguy]

Americans can go to Cuba but it is illegal for them to spend money there. All controlled by th Office of Assets Control. During the Clinton era one could get permission to travel under license quit easily. I was able to do this on two occasions. The Shrub put an end to this so Americans traveled via Canada, Bahamas, Mexico. If caught you could be fined $6500 and up.

G

[Surfcrest]

Quite often, you can interpret a countryтАЩs feelings toward homosexuality not by what the government says but rather how the police interpret and maintain the law.

In Cuba, the police force seems more concerned with a conversation a Cuban migt have with a foreigner than they would about anything moreтАж.physical. If youтАЩre in Cuba and decide to walk / talk with a Cuban a uniformed or plain clothed officer would probably stop the Cuban. Walking hand in hand with a foreigner could lead to his arrest. It seems like a common thing for a Cuban to be required to show his / her identification to officials upon demand. ItтАЩs illegal for a Cuban to be out of his / her province without authorization and this is quite common in the gay / rent scene.

There have been enough reports about HavanaтАЩs prostitution industry both in the past and to present day. ItтАЩs reasonable enough to believe that the government is aware and would probably not want this stigma attached to its legacy. IтАЩm sure the same applies in Thailand. If only the industry could exist more transparently, the government and the people would have less of a problem with it. So, if you are down at the Malecon, soliciting boys and you get arrested and deported (although unlikely, depending on how big a show you put on) this is the risk you took.

If you donтАЩt speak Spanish, Cuba is not going to be easy for you. Knowing what your doing is critical to the amount of fun you find in Cuba.

There are plenty of charters into Cuban resorts from Canada and there are several easy connections from Mexico City, Guatemala City, Cancun and Spain.

Flying with Cubana is not recommended.

Good Luck,


Surfcrest

[gorcum-old]

I have visited cuba six times, and I can tell you that they do not stamp pasports at custums, I am canadian, so it does not matter. If you visit Cuba, their are ttwo different ways of sleeping, either in Hotels or in peoples home, some Cubans have a permit where by they can have homestays. IN the hotels guest are not alowed in the rooms. at homestays it is more flexible.