The Thai education system and science

I was chatting to one of the mem'sahibs yesterday and (don't ask me how) the conversation turned to the rising and falling of the sea level. His explanation was that it rose and fell according to the amount of rainfall. I explained that, no, tides happened every 12 hours or so and were driven by the moon. It's just such an obvious thing but I keep forgetting the abysmal level of ignorance that pervades the Thai public education system. The long and short of it is he now thinks (or has had confirmed) that I am completely potty for entertaining such a notion. A friend of mine told me once that it came as a complete revelation to his boyfriend that the Sun is a ball of fire and the Earth revolves around it. He had never heard of such a thing at school

School and perception are holy in this country.
If the school teacher tells the children that the earth is flat, so it will be.
Very hard to 'fight' against this so called wisdom.

On the other hand, if we (or I) try to explain something to my friend, he always says: I understand, but it never works out.
How many times I coudl have said: "See!!!! I've warned you!!", but after a few times, I stopped.

In short: Thai are very stubborn and most Thai only learn from perception.

In short: Thai are very stubborn and most Thai only learn from perception.The perception was that the sea level rose and fell because of the rain!

[Patexpat]

as an employer I have to agree with the above statements, but Thais do have this great memory because they learn by wrote .... I have also found that another result of the education system is the total lack of the concept 'action = consequence' ....

[Marsilius]

It's just such an obvious thing but I keep forgetting the abysmal level of ignorance that pervades the Thai public education system.

And not only the Thai education system...

Q. What sort of school can produce a child who believes, as a (presumably thinking) adult, that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and was literally created from nothing in seven days?

A. Wasilla High School, Alaska. (And guess who went there!)

[Bob]

Homi, there was an article either in the Post or Nation many months ago in which some Thai professor explained that the melting of the polar ice caps would not affect Thailand as they were "too far away." Now, ain't that special?

By the way, tides caused by the gravitational pull of the moon don't alter the overall level of the oceans although they certainly affect local levels when the gravitational pull does its thing. Rainfall could affect the overall level of the oceans presuming rainfall increased (and I don't have a clue if that's a constant or might be affected by global warming and/or or hot air coming from this forum!).

Bob wrote

"Rainfall could affect the overall level of the oceans presuming rainfall increased."

But where would the extra rain come from, if not from the sea? Are they exporting clouds from Mars?

[Bob]

Hell if I know, that's why I said presuming. On the other hand, just googled "global warming and rainfall" and the first article I looked at said in part: "Global warming is likely to lead to more rainfall because higher atmospheric pressures increase levels of water vapour."

Of course, that doesn't exactly answer where it comes from......perhaps from Big C or Nakorn Nowhere. :clown:

tides caused by the gravitational pull of the moon

What, pray, are the other causes of tides?

The Thai professor needs to show me a very large bowl of water where the far away side is at a different level from the near side.

Now listen very carefully, I will say this only once. Environmentalists believe that global warming will cause sea levels to rise as land based glacier systems at the South Pole and on Greenland and nearby land masses melt.

[Bob]

What, pray, are the other causes of tides?


Hey, do your own damn research (google "tides" and you might learn something).

As to melting of the polar ice (well, actually, the land-based ice), even the dreaded scientists believe it would cause the ocean levels to rise.

As to melting of the polar ice (well, actually, the land-based ice), even the dreaded scientists believe it would cause the ocean levels to rise.

Didn't I just say that is what environmentalists believe?

Chao Na is wondering how many American or British high school drop-outs know any more about tides than Thai high school drop-outs.

As to melting of the polar ice (well, actually, the land-based ice), even the dreaded scientists believe it would cause the ocean levels to rise.

Didn't I just say that is what environmentalists believe?

Yes, the tip of the iceberg at sea is only one-tenth of it, as those on the Titanic found out for sure. Global warming should be causing land-based glacier melting yet it seems that rises in sea level as measured over a century seem unmeasurable. But it could be disastrous.

The recent periods of glaciation/deglaciation are probably related to long term warming/cooling trends, of which our times are a minor blip. Major documented changes in sea level are relative and related to the moving up and down and this or that way of the continents.

Still, I think Thais know as well as the rest of us that the spinning earth is indeed round (or very near to it), and revolves around the sun.

Ponbkk wrote

"it seems that rises in sea level as measured over a century seem unmeasurable."

It's a pity computers can't do logic checks as well as spell checks.

It's a pity computers can't do logic checks as well as spell checks.

I guess you saw the Al Gore movie.

[francois]

Yes, the tip of the iceberg at sea is only one-tenth of it, as those on the Titanic found out for sure. Global warming should be causing land-based glacier melting yet it seems that rises in sea level as measured over a century seem unmeasurable. But it could be disastrous.

.
As noted by others, it is land based ice melting which causes rise in sea levels. Icebergs don't count. The total mass of the ice is the same as it's water content. But if an ice shelf slips into the ocean then it will cause a rise in the sea level. Does this confuse the issue?
Also rainfall does not count. Rain comes from water evaporated from the oceans which falls to earth; net result no rise in sea levels.
And yes, most of the water on earth once came from outer space in the form of asteroids. Maybe that is why Mars is dry and Earth is wet?

[thaiguest]

Yes, the tip of the iceberg at sea is only one-tenth of it, as those on the Titanic found out for sure. Global warming should be causing land-based glacier melting yet it seems that rises in sea level as measured over a century seem unmeasurable. But it could be disastrous.

.
As noted by others, it is land based ice melting which causes rise in sea levels. Icebergs don't count. The total mass of the ice is the same as it's water content. But if an ice shelf slips into the ocean then it will cause a rise in the sea level. Does this confuse the issue?
Also rainfall does not count. Rain comes from water evaporated from the oceans which falls to earth; net result no rise in sea levels.
And yes, most of the water on earth once came from outer space in the form of asteroids. Maybe that is why Mars is dry and Earth is wet?

Whatever about water coming from outer space (?) the rain-cycle is earth-bound...the earth has never lost a drop of water to outer space...from what i read and hear.

If one has to pass judgement on another country's educational system or the level of educational standards it has to be through educated judgements. How do you attain that status depends on how much exposure we have accross the world. Trying to compare that with American or British standards alone will not qulify one to be an expert to comment on the topic. You need to understand that in the Asian context and compare how well the Thailand system is thriving to compete not only in the region but also rise upto the western standards. In order to call your shots, one need to interact with the real thai society. Judging by the ones we meet on the street corners and beach is not a justification. So lets us try to become pundits here unless, we are sure what we are talking about guys. You are not on CNN or BBC

As noted by others, it is land based ice melting which causes rise in sea levels.

Maybe that is why Mars is dry and Earth is wet?

You just repeated what I repeated what Bob said.

So WHY would the asteroids miss Mars and only plenish the earth?

Scientists bag climate-change awards
By Wannapa Phetdee
The sunday Nation
Published on September 7, 2008

Three scientists have won awards for contributions to the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Three scientists have won awards for contributions to the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The three are from King Mongkut's University of Technology Thonburi (KMUTT) and Ramkhamhaeng University (RU) in Bangkok.

The IPCC has officially recognised Assoc Prof Sirintornthep Towprayoon, deputy director of the KMUTT's Joint Graduate School of Energy and Environment (JGSEE); Dr Amnat Chidthaisong, an assistant professor of JGSEE's environment division; and RU's Assist Prof Kansri Boonpragob for having made substantial contributions to the IPCC's Nobel Peace Prize award.

The honour was recognition for their efforts in publicising the potential threats of global warming and climate change and for working tirelessly to get the attention of policy-makers.

In 2006 Sirintornthep was the lead author of the IPCC Guidelines on National Greenhouse-Gas Inventories.

"It is an honour. I never thought I would be one of the hundreds of scientists worldwide who helped the IPCC to win a Nobel Prize," she said.

Amnat was one of the lead authors of the 4th Assessment Report on the physical-science basis of climate change among about 450 scientists worldwide.

"I didn't want any praise from the IPCC. I worked for it because I want to use my abilities to present knowledge about climate change to the public and exchange knowledge with experts all over the world," Amnat said.

Kansri is an IPCC bureau member of Working Group I, the same group as Amnat. She is the group's Asia representative.She set the scope of the group's work, which was studying the physical-science basis of climate change, and allotted jobs to researchers in her group.

"I want to see an organisation set up in Thailand to make IPCC reports less technical so Thais can understand them better," Kansri said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09 ... 082775.php (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/07/business/business_30082775.php)

[francois]

As noted by others, it is land based ice melting which causes rise in sea levels.

Maybe that is why Mars is dry and Earth is wet?

You just repeated what I repeated what Bob said.

So WHY would the asteroids miss Mars and only plenish the earth?

I suppose great minds think alike? Just echoing and reinforcing your thoughts. As for Mars, most likely asteroids hit Mars and supplied it with water. The water either escaped to outer space because of lesser gravity; was frozen into ice; was chemically combined with minerals in the soil. Or the Martians took their water with them and colonized Earth?

Or the Martians took their water with them and colonized Earth?An acquaintance of mine theorizes that the Chinese are from outer space; they've destroyed their own planet's environment and now they've come here to destroy ours

because of lesser gravity

Our resident CHEESEburger salesman should move to Mars, then. He'll have good company with the great big red spot, like the one on his face.

Maybe he'll find the water under the surface.

It's just such an obvious thing but I keep forgetting the abysmal level of ignorance that pervades the Thai public education system.

And not only the Thai education system...

Q. What sort of school can produce a child who believes, as a (presumably thinking) adult, that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and was literally created from nothing in seven days?

A. Wasilla High School, Alaska. (And guess who went there!)

Well, Mr. Marsilius, you might get off your high judgement seat and explain what sort of educational/media/political system could have produced billions of people who believe in anthropogenic global warming as a Revealed Fact. You don't name Sarah Palin, but I will name Al Gore as one of the biggest meatheads in America.

I also object to the attempt to turn all discussions into politics.

As for reforming or improving the Thai educational system, there are a number of problems. The first and most important (unlike Farangistan) is a really brutal lack of money. The second is one already commented on...the Thai teachers somehow believe they have ascended into the Heaven of Perfection: they don't take questions, they don't admit ignorance, and most of all they don't admit mistakes. And they are dismal teachers of English.

This is something I deal with on a weekly basis. A guy will bring along his homework for "help," which means that I do it. And suddenly I am confronted with a farrago of solecisms from the Revered Teacher, which I have to "work around." And it is not unusual for that homework to be "corrected" by the teacher, which may result in my guy looking at me with baleful frowns.

The most important example I can think of is the letter "s." (WHAT?) It forms the regular plural (book/books), it marks off the third-person present (he works/you work), it marks the possessive (the boy's book), etc. -- and most Thai English teachers think that it is not at all important to pronounce it!! When I was at CMU, I received a book entitled "Teacher's Note."

Nowadays, my boyfriend is subject to mild TEASING from his English teacher when he pronounces the final "s" correctly. "Where did that come from?" asks the Ajaan with Pearly Teeth.

Well, no wonder Thailand places next-to-last in English results. It's a true case of the one-eyed leading the blind, and the fully-sighted man must be ostracized.

Henry cate wrote:
"I also object to the attempt to turn all discussions into politics."

Astonishing as it may seem, there are even some people on the right of politics who wish to see their children and grandchildren enjoy the same quality of life we do. Global warming is about science. Real world science, as opposed to logic or maths, is very often a matter of evidence rather than proof. I stand to be corrected, but I don't think the link between smoking and cancer has been proved yet. It's a hypothesis for which there is now overwhelming evidence. A hypothesis which the American and British tobacco companies tried for many years to first dismiss, then counter, and finally downplay. Their entitrely cynical, self-serving efforts are well documented.

A similar situation now exists with regard to the role of carbon dioxide, methane and other gasses in producing global warming. There is a hypothesis, supported by strong (but still not overwheming) evidence. The US, as the largest per capita producer of greenhouse gasses, has a vested interest in doing what the cigarette manufacturers did. Dismissing, countering, downplaying the evidence. Reducing carbon emmissions (and methane from animals) would cost the world relatively little and may save later generations a lot. It will also bring many immediate side-benefits for which there is overwhelming evidence - like a reduction of respiratory diseases caused by exhaust fumes, less destruction of natural habitats, healthier eating (less red meat). At worst we win, at best we win big. I'm sure every Thai schoolkid can work that one out!

[francois]

because of lesser gravity

Our resident CHEESEburger salesman should move to Mars, then. He'll have good company with the great big red spot, like the one on his face.

Maybe he'll find the water under the surface.

A rather strange comment! If you are referring to me as a Cheesburger salesman you are quite wrong. And the great red spot is on Jupiter, not Mars.

Astonishing as it may seem, there are even some people on the right of politics who wish to see their children and grandchildren enjoy the same quality of life we do. Global warming is about science. Real world science, as opposed to logic or maths, is very often a matter of evidence rather than proof.

Homesick,

surprising (and depressing!) as it may be, for once I agree with you totally.

Talking of cheeseburgers and red meat, if consumption of beef was reduced by only 5% (with a similar reduction in cattle numbers) this would be the equivalent of a 100% reduction in vehicle emmissions!

the Thai teachers somehow believe they have ascended into the Heaven of Perfection: they don't take questions, they don't admit ignorance, and most of all they don't admit mistakes.

You must feel right at home.


Well, no wonder Thailand places next-to-last in English results.

On what scale/index?

If you are referring to me as a Cheesburger salesman you are quite wrong. And the great red spot is on Jupiter, not Mars.

Freedom fries, maybe. Hamburgers NOT the one.

... the great big red Olympus Mons on Mars ... {corrected}

Global warming is about science.

"Global warming" is about politics.

[Bob]

Global warming" is about politics.

Maybe, then, it's the hot air coming out of Washington, London, Bangkok, etc., that is causing the rise in global temperatures, the rise in greenhouse gases in the air, and the decreasing size of the various icecaps/glaciers?

While I can understand that one can argue that these events are occuring for differing reasons, let's at least not deny that they are happening. If what is happening is just a normal cycle of events, then things will turn around on their own.
If, however, what is happening is due to what most (but not all) scientists assert is human activity pouring greenhouse gases into the air, then maybe we ought to consider decreasing that activity before it's too late. In 20-50 years, we'll probably know with 100% certainty but, unfortunately, it may then be too late to prevent the damage many of these scientists are predicting. Tell me on the other side, I'll be dead.

[francois]

Global warming" is about politics.


While I can understand that one can argue that these events are occuring for differing reasons, let's at least not deny that they are happening. If what is happening is just a normal cycle of events, then things will turn around on their own.

Tell me on the other side, I'll be dead.

The normal cycle of events may take thousands of years so it will be a long time to turn around. Some scientists are predicting another ice age in 10,000 years so best to enjoy the warmth while we can.

[Bob]

As somebody who lives near Canada, I have grown to hate the cold winters. Global warming......BRING IT ON!

[Marsilius]

It's just such an obvious thing but I keep forgetting the abysmal level of ignorance that pervades the Thai public education system.

And not only the Thai education system...

Q. What sort of school can produce a child who believes, as a (presumably thinking) adult, that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and was literally created from nothing in seven days?

A. Wasilla High School, Alaska. (And guess who went there!)

Well, Mr. Marsilius, you might get off your high judgement seat and explain what sort of educational/media/political system could have produced billions of people who believe in anthropogenic global warming as a Revealed Fact.

How disappointing, dear Henry, to find that you "answer" a valid point (about the ludicrousness of creationism) by throwing in my face an entirely different one (about which I have never expressed any opinion here).

Mrs Palin, seeing as you have now mentioned her, would be so proud of you!

By the way, no facts are "Revealed" - they are "discovered", either by simple observation or by human investigation (usually by scientists.)

[francois]

[

Q. What sort of school can produce a child who believes, as a (presumably thinking) adult, that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and was literally created from nothing in seven days?
A. Wasilla High School, Alaska. (And guess who went there!)

Anomalously, our Universe was created from nothing in less than one second.