Last Will and Testament

[Doug]

Soon I will be moving to Thailand. I do not have a will because I never wanted to face my mortality. But as I pass 60, the grim reaper can't be ignored.

I have lived a solitary life and I have no deserving relatives therefore I have no one to leave my estate to. My plans are to spend it all before I go but that's a tricky calculation.

Obviously a worthy charity or two would be the answer. The other option it to leave it to my Thai lover. The problem is I don't have one. I figure if I have a positive relationship with someone for 4 months, I would like them included in my will. But of course knowing how things work in Thailand relationships can change with little notice. I don't think I would tell the person they were in the will but just let the sudden money be a surprise to them.

My question is, how easy is it to change a will? Or could the will be written vaguely stating that the money be given to the my current companion - no name given - as long as that person has been with me 4 months. (That sounds stupid when I see it written) But you get the idea.

How many of you have fretted over the disposal of your estate and what solution have you found?

[mikelele-old]

No name given? What's to keep any boy from coming up out of the wood work and saying that he'd been seeing you secretly behind your companion's back for 6 months and contesting the will? That sounds like the start of a lot of trouble IMHO. You could leave a blank space and fill it in at some later time when you are sure of your companion. But then there's having it notarized and all that stuff. A lot also depends on where the will would be executed. I know that the execution of a will depends largely on the executor. You have to designate someone whom you trust and is reliable in your opinion. These are just some things to think about. =)

[cottmann]

Soon I will be moving to Thailand.... I have no one to leave my estate to.

Apart from the smart answer - leave it all to me - you need to make sure that any will you write is valid in both Thailand (assuming that is where you die) and your home country. Different countries have different laws and, as Rainwalker99 wrote, you really do need to see a competent lawyer before you draft a will and sign it.

you need to make sure that any will you write is valid in both Thailand (assuming that is where you die) and your home country.

Don't confuse us with "both". Your Thai will must be valid in Thailand and your home country will must be valid in your home country.

There is no 'requirement' that any will be valid in both, unless you could correct my misunderstanding?

[cottmann]

you need to make sure that any will you write is valid in both Thailand (assuming that is where you die) and your home country.

Don't confuse us with "both". Your Thai will must be valid in Thailand and your home country will must be valid in your home country.

There is no 'requirement' that any will be valid in both, unless you could correct my misunderstanding?

As I understand the situation, the disposition of a deceased person's estate is influenced by a number of factors, including legal domicile, location of assets, domicile of possible heirs and their relationship to the deceased, etc. Testamentary dispositions legal in one country may not be legal in another, e.g., your home country law may require certain legacies be left to relations, whether you wish to make those arrangements or not. Therefore, different domestic laws may make it difficult or impossible to carry out the deceased's last wishes.
It might be possible to circumvent this by making one will in Thailand and another elsewhere, of course.
There is, however, an international convention which requires all countries adopting it to accept wills which meet the formalities set out in the convention. Called the "Convention Providing a Uniform Law on the Form of an International Will," (Washing, DC, 26 October 1973) these wills must meet a number of formalities before they can be accepted as valid. To start with, the country/state/province of last residence must have adopted the Convention. Then, there are conditions related to the writing of the will, witnesses and administrative authorization. Not all provinces accept this type of will. Countries or parts of countries that are signatory and which have passed legislation concerning international wills include some of the US states such as New Hampshire, some parts of Canada and Australia, HK, etc. It was essentially to this that I was referring in my posting.
I do not know whether this convention is applicable in Doug's case - which is why I added that he should consult a lawyer.
Local embassy or consular officials should also be able to provide advice, I imagine.

I dont know where you come from Doug,but if you still have assests in your home country you will have to have a lawyer/solictor there too.
Odds on you have another 15 to 20 years left so anything can happen then.The thing is if you dont make a will it goes to the Govt.
Take the next few years to think about it,but your right about spending it,you have worked hard all your life i presume,now is the time to enjoy it.
Its your money,you worked for it,travel,go out to restaurants,have a good time.I would start to sell your assests as you get older and liquidate.
Its no use keeping a house in your own country unless you are requiring on the rental income.I take it your a bit of a loner,but its funny how neices and nephews come out of the woodwork when someone dies.Mate enjoy it,you worked for it ,this is what you worked for,not to give it to someone else.Of course if you meet someone and spend the next 15 years or so with them and they look after you when yo get sick then you can leave it to them.You still have about 15 to 20 years left.

[Bob]

Doug, I think you're Canadian and, absent getting married, you can leave your assets to whomever you wish (there is no requirement that you give anything to "relations", whatever that group is composed of). Some other factual information:
(1) If you don't have a Will, then the Canadian intestate statutes will determine who gets your property. That's pretty lame to let a bunch of bonehead legislators decide who gets your items so you ought to make a Will. Absent you're giving up your Canadian citizenship, your Canadian Will will absolutely control how your Canadian property is transferred after your death.
(2) Thai law will decide how your Thai real estate is transferred. Thai law may recognize your Canadian Will but there may be different witness requirements and/or there may be some requirement to file or register the Will in Thailand. So, to the extent you accumulate anything of value in Thailand, you ought to consult with a Thai lawyer about those items. He/she will either advise that your Canadian Will is good in Thailand or what you need to make it so (or, perhaps, he/she will recommend a Thai Will for disposition of Thai assets).
(3) Technically, the law of your domiciliary country decides who gets your personal property regardless of where it's situated; however, I wouldn't count on that happening for personal property in Thailand unless you follow step #2 above.
(4) I suppose you always could make a joint bank account with your Thai friend but ask the bank if it's a survivorship account (if so, he gets what cash is left).
(5) There are assets that pass immediately upon death (without the need of a Will or probate) and those include life insurance proceeds and other investment accounts (IRA's in the US, for example) where you can name a given beneficiary.

As to the suggestion that you ought to have a Power of Attorney, I personally would never give anyone plenary authority over my assets. If, for example, you need to sell/purchase real estate in Canada while you're out of the country (presuming the mail won't work) or you need to sign other important documents under the same circumstances, then you can make a limited power of attorney appointing somebody for that particular task only. Or, for example, should you become incompetent, there are adequate conservativeship laws that would quickly and fairly effortlessly give somebody power to manage your assets but at least there is some oversight so that the managing occurs only for your best interests.

[paulg]

If you go to the search button at the top of the page, type in wills, and you will find a number of posts that will be interesting .

You do know how to spell my name, don't you? :geek:

As paulg says, this topic was done to death about 3 months ago and a Search should reveal that thread

Well, I for one would like to THANK Doug for his original question, at least not covered in any threads I remember.

And thank you, Cottmann, for that explanation. We all come from very different perspectives. I wish I could rely on one simple 'international' will but that I think is a LONG ways off for my situation.

[Aunty]

of sympathy for you Doug because I find myself in exactly the same situation as you, although for different reasons. I have no heirs or successors and no close friends that I would want to leave my money to. I'm leaning towards a charity at the moment, one in particular which has been very kind and supportive to me over the years and so I would like to give something back to it. I suppose I could leave it to my Thai lover as well, but like you I don't have one! lol I really laughed when I read that. You're an optimist at heart!

The advice you have received from others to have a detailed Will that is in accordance with whatever jurisdiction your assets and home are in is good advice. Under New Zealand law for example, you have a primary moral obligation to leave your assets to your spouse, common law (defacto) partner, civil union partner (includes your same sex partner if you have one) to support and maintain them in an appropriate way. Next comes an obligation to any children you have including adult children, and then grandchildren. It's not that you can't leave your money to whoever you like, but those are your legal obligations first, so you need a damn good reason to cut them out of your will (and there are grounds for that both in the Act and in case law), otherwise the will can be contested. Sadly I find myself in that situation as we speak as my father was cut out of my mother's Will and he is now contesting that in Court. We all loose when that happens.

So you can see already, how different countries have vastly different approaches to what, who and how goes into your Will. So once you have some sense of where you'd like your money to go, go and see a good lawyer in Thailand and where ever else you may need to.

I don't know where you are from or what your medical history is, your current health status or the medical history of your family and the age at which your parents and grandparents died. But most white middle class western men will now live on average to the age of 80 years, unless you're an American, they don't live so long, but can still live until they are 76. What that means is that half of all men will live to that age and half will live beyond it. The implications of that are that you may well have another 20-25 years left to live. Do you have enough money to support yourself with a reasonable standard of comfortable living for that long? Don't underestimate your life expectancy, spend all your money over the next five to 10 years and then find yourself in poverty for the last 10 years of your life when you will be at your most vulnerable, will not have family to fall back on for support, and are no longer in a position to create income and wealth for yourself.

But apart from that, what would you like your money to do when you are gone? Thinking along those lines might perhaps help you to make your mind up as to who or what to leave it to. Do you want to build a legacy, help a lot of people, have the money last so it can help more people, maybe give kids in poverty a chance at a better life? Or maybe you want to focus it on a small number of people, or a boyfriend and his family?

But please if I may be so bold as to say please don't use your money as a bauble to attract a Thai boy with the promise that he will get it all if he stays with you for four months. (He might harm you to get the money after the four months has passed). Give it to a boy who likes you in spite of your money and not because of it. You're worth more than that, and so too are many of the worthy causes out there.

Good luck.

But most white middle class western men will now live on average to the age of 80 years, unless you're an American, they don't live so long, but can still live until they are 76You've been taking lessons from a well-known insurance loss-adjuster now living in Pattaya, haven't you?

[lonelywombat]

here is the previous thread asking similar questions

http://p092.ezboard.com/fsawatdeeforumf ... D=65.topic (http://p092.ezboard.com/fsawatdeeforumfrm72.showMessage?topicID=65.topic)

[Doug]

Thank you all for your advice.

I have lived a very simple life in Canada. Invested my money conservatively. I have always rented so I have no property. Neither do I have any valuable possessions. No wife, partner or children.

I have always hated beaurocracy and dealing with a lawyer pains me but I guess the best plan is to consult with a professional and get it done right. I suppose the lawyer or the bank will have to be executor.

I have always lived in the moment, not allowing myself to get tied down with possessions or close friends. When I move to Thailand, maybe I should foster some closer friends.

Again your advice has been most appreciated.

I have always hated beaurocracy and dealing with a lawyer pains me but I guess the best plan is to consult with a professional and get it done right. I suppose the lawyer or the bank will have to be executor.



You can always consider a charity! In my experience many if not most of the ones that I support, or have supported, are prepared to provide professional assistance to people who wish to remember them in their will.

You can also "do it yourself". I cannot vouch for any such product - but I know that they are available

www.canlaw.com/legalforms/indexlegalforms.htm (http://www.canlaw.com/legalforms/indexlegalforms.htm)

which claims to be valid in Canada

And i found this article dealing with Wills in Thailand:

www.huahintoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=348 (http://www.huahintoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=348)

I have a feeling that, in Thailand, unless you are 100% fluent in the written language (so as to craft a holographic will) you will end up dealing with a lawyer.

I have yet to find a way of bequeathing an overdraft, but I'm working on it because that's the only piece of property I have left in my own name. Everything else is in a trust where the beneficiaries are a named group of people and I have a compliant trustee who will add and delete names at my direction. What happens after my death I don't care - they can loot, plunder, and sue the arse off each other and the trustee for all I care - but under the trems of the trust that won't bring them much joy. By the way, my trustee is a well-known insurance loss adjuster now living in Pattaya who has three generations of lawyers in the family

I have yet to find a way of bequeathing an overdraft

This reminds me of a lecture I attended. The lawyer, presenting the talk read some actual wills.
One, was only seven words: "Being of sound mind, I spent it." :thefinger:
A line from another: "...And to my nephew, Charlie, who I always promised to mention in my will. Hi ya' Charlie!" :wave:


A few things to think about:

If having a Thai lawyer write your will--And you do not read Thai--it would be a good idea to have someone who does read Thai translate it for you before you sign it.
(Question: Need a will be 'filed*' in Thailand? If so, how do you make sure it actually is?)

In some American states and other places*, a will is worthless unless it is filed, usually; with the (Probate?) court.
*In England, I believe a will must be filed at a certain place (I've forgot the name) that is for that purpose: Same place one would go to 'look up' a will. (At one time--Maybe still--anyone could go there and read anyone's will.) Unscrupulous lawyers have been known to write a will, collect their fee--And not file it: rendering it worthless for avoiding probate\may turn into a legal battle that will eat up what the court doesn't get--Think, Jarndyce vs. Jarndyce.

Holograph wills may--And may not--be legal; depending on the law where you live.
Where I live, they are not legal--But one can walk into a stationery shop and buy a kit for the purpose of writing a holograph will\Be led to believe they are legal.
And if holograph wills are legal, they may still need to be filed; according to the law where you live.
And, even if they do not need be filed, imagine what will happen if a person you cut out of the will gets to your domicile first...Right after you kick the bucket: "Duh! What will?".
You can leave your money to anyone you wish--But if you live in country A, and leave it to someone in B thru Z, don't count on them seeing a baht\dong\sou... of it.

"Being of sound mind, I spent it"...But how to prevent the money running out...before you do.

A friend, who knew he would die soon, sold his home with the understanding he could live in it until his death.

Look into a 'Reverse Mortgage.' (Which could be the equal of leaving some one an overdraft.)

Assisted Suicide.
Dr. Death, Thai Style: Tell a Thai he will get all your money, and possessions when you die--Will, optional. :acid: