was I wrong not to pay the gogo boy?

[latintopxxx]

Bit of a dilema, was in a gogo bar in soi twilight last night (sex shows have really gone downhill, police clampdown!!) and took a fancy to one of the numbers on the stage, after checking with the "madame" that he was sexually speaking compatible (I speak no Thai and the number only knew about 20 english words) I bought him for 3 hours and off we went to my hotel.
What a disaster, apart from a weak attempt at a BJ he was totally useless in the sex department and not what I was promised. After 30 minutes of this I kicked him out of my room but not before he tried to grab by mobile because I refused to pay him more than THB50, basically taxi money..or whatever. He had already cost me 350 in bar fees!!

Was I wrong? Woke up this morning feeling a bit guilty. Just feel that I was cheated. Think nothing of dropping 20 or 50 into a beggars bowl but got really annoyed when the number turned out to be just about useless; I was really looking forward to an energetic workout andinstead got a lick and a cuddle.
comments anyone!!

[Wesley]

I would have done a not more than cab fare I think, maybe he was a newbie, maybe you did not turn him on, maybe it was not all his fault. or maybe it was just a bad night for you both , we all have them I guess,

Wes

[latintopxxx]

well he was young, not more than 22 and I haven't seen him around. Still don't feel its really my job to turn him on...supposed to be a professional after all.
Was promised a good bottom, instead got what I think was a total anal virgin. Guess I gotta put it down to a "bad" experience.
What really annoyed me was him trying to grab my mobile, got a bit tense, good thing I'm not afraid to fight back; really hadn't expected this reaction.
In the past the boys have always been very capable and willing, will have to be more selective next time asd I do love rent boys.

[fedssocr]

sounds like maybe a chemistry thing. From the tone of your note here I wonder if a bit more respect for the boy would have gotten you more of what you wanted. Referring to him as "the number" and saying that you "bought him for three hours" seems rather dehumanizing. He's a real person with real feelings after all, not a machine. Perhaps he picked up on your attitude towards him and couldn't perform under those circumstances.

However if things were really not working out I think you were right to bid him farewell. Surely rather than "kicking him out" you could have been more tactful? Personally I think I would have offered a little more than Bt50. That Bt350 you paid the bar goes to the bar. As long as he was attempting to please you I think a couple of hundred baht would be appropriate.

I had a somewhat similar situation last year where I offed a boy from Wild West in Pattaya. When we got back to the hotel he was extremely shy and nervous. We took a shower together. But when we got into bed he pretty much immediately apologized and said he wasn't feeling sexy and wanted to leave. I wasn't going to keep him if he didn't want to be there. He also asked to not be paid, so I didn't. It was only a short walk from the bar so transportation wasn't necessary. It was kind of weird and had never happened to me before. But I just chalked it up to a lack of chemistry and figured that maybe he wasn't feeling well.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Bit of a dilema, was in a gogo bar in soi twilight last night (sex shows have really gone downhill, police clampdown!!) and took a fancy to one of the numbers on the stage, after checking with the "madame" that he was sexually speaking compatible (I speak no Thai and the number only knew about 20 english words) I bought him for 3 hours and off we went to my hotel.
What a disaster, apart from a weak attempt at a BJ he was totally useless in the sex department and not what I was promised. After 30 minutes of this I kicked him out of my room but not before he tried to grab by mobile because I refused to pay him more than THB50, basically taxi money..or whatever. He had already cost me 350 in bar fees!!

Was I wrong? Woke up this morning feeling a bit guilty. Just feel that I was cheated. Think nothing of dropping 20 or 50 into a beggars bowl but got really annoyed when the number turned out to be just about useless; I was really looking forward to an energetic workout andinstead got a lick and a cuddle.
comments anyone!!

Yes-I think you were wrong not to pay him-but also wrong to believe what the mamsan says-they will say anything to make a sale.

As one who has many unsatisfactory sexual encounters ( and when I'm sober !) I still pay the agreed price. Afterall-you are a foreigner and it just isn't worth making an enemy-and you really must do your best not to let a Thai lose face. Always better to back down even when you are in the right..often hard and annoying but I believe it's the best policy.

You also have to develop your gaydar ( I've got it down to a fine art now) and ask your spiritual guides to give you insight into who is GIB and who aint-going for the most handsome isn't always the best choice.

[zinzone]

In my opinion you were not wrong, and no need to feel guilty.
If you have made it clear what you want and the boy is aware of it and fails to deliver then its' his problem not yours.
Recently I "offed" a boy from a bar in Pattaya and before agreeing to off him I made it clear to the boy and to him through the mama san what was required.
As it turned out the boy was "useless".
Not only did I not pay anything to the boy, the same night I took him back to the bar and complained loudly to the mama san who apoligised and provided a "free" off and the replacement did what was required.
More customers should do the same.

[painai2]

So it doesn't work out. Give him something for his time and he's on his way.
However, 50 baht is almost an insult, you're lucky he didn't do more than just try to take your cell phone.
I agree with at least 200 baht. Believe me, if you try to go back to that bar, all the boys will know how
much you gave and you won't be able to get anybody else. They talk about us like we talk about them.

So it doesn't work out. Give him something for his time and he's on his way. However, 50 baht is almost an insult, you're lucky he didn't do more than just try to take your cell phone. I agree with at least 200 baht. Believe me, if you try to go back to that bar, all the boys will know how much you gave and you won't be able to get anybody else. They talk about us like we talk about them.I'd have thought 200 baht was the minimum. I know guys who say up front "you don't cum, I don't tip you" which is always an incentive

Believe me, if you try to go back to that bar, all the boys will know how
much you gave and you won't be able to get anybody else.

He also runs the chance of having his head split open like a ripe coconut should he ever set foot anywhere near Soi Prostitute again. That 50 baht was not the best investment...

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

So it doesn't work out. Give him something for his time and he's on his way.
However, 50 baht is almost an insult, you're lucky he didn't do more than just try to take your cell phone.
I agree with at least 200 baht. Believe me, if you try to go back to that bar, all the boys will know how
much you gave and you won't be able to get anybody else. They talk about us like we talk about them.

well this is true-they are even worse than us and gossip like it's going out of style. Perhaps a firm look but never insult or make a boy or make him look foolish..and certainly don't insult him with such a pittance. Word will get around.

Remember-life is cheap including yours.

Remember-life is cheap including yours.Inteestingly Stickman wrote a bit on this very topic a couple of weeks ago. His assertion was that that's not necessarily so

I don't believe that you should necessarily feel guilty as what is done is done. However, I would have suggested that you had given him more than 50bht. Further, there would have been no shame to take him back to the bar and just let the mama san know that he was not what he/she represented. It's important not to make a scene nor is it necessary to raise your voice, this way you have saved face, the boy can save face and the mama san can save face and further, they will match you up with someone else more suited to your taste for free.

[latintopxxx]

certainly lots of advice/opinions, realise what some of you have said about getting my head split open, but don't think it will come to that, the only one who knows that he only got paid THb50 is the boy, I didn't go back or raise a stink about it, just thought it was safer to buy a boy off the stage then pick one off the road...which incidentally I've done several times without a hitch..enough said, guess it just wasn't to be.

[adman5000]

I always try to be good to the boys regardless. As another poster said, they talk and besides, when I plan on revisiting places, I prefer to make friends rather than enemies. It is not a lot of money to give the boy a few hundred baht and acknowledge it is not working for either of you. I would view 50 baht as an insult and asking for trouble by demonstrating an attitude.

I also think it is money well spent to occasionally tip the mamasans. I also make some friendly small talk with them. Some people buy them drinks. I do not, I give them a tip and tell them openly thank you for taking care of me. I don't do this each and every time. When I am offing a boy, they will then generally talk to the boy and I seldom have problems. I look at it as an investment and I feel it has always paid off. Sometimes a boy is not working the night that I was looking for him and I have had a good mamasan call the boy and make arrangements. If the mamasan asks me to buy them a drink, I may joke with them that I am saving my money for the boys.

certainly lots of advice/opinions, realise what some of you have said about getting my head split open, but don't think it will come to that, the only one who knows that he only got paid THb50 is the boy, I didn't go back or raise a stink about it, just thought it was safer to buy a boy off the stage then pick one off the road...which incidentally I've done several times without a hitch..enough said, guess it just wasn't to be.And will you share the name of the establishment with us?

[anakot]

I'd have given him the agreed price but made it clear you weren't happy with a seething smile. You are lucky something worse did not happen during your brief struggle over the phone. Sometimes things escalate out of control very quickly...

Lets not get too strict, just relax and put it down to a bad experience.

[latintopxxx]

Not that it matters, hotmale, as you enter the soi, 1st gogo bar on the left, upstairs. Been thinking the whole violence thing, with getting my head bashed in, have never felt threatened in BKK/Thailand in all the years I've been visiting (at least 5/year) as long as one is fair and for want of a better word shows appropriate respect.
I don't think I should walk in fear and have to pay to feel safe!
I've offed a lot of boys, not only in BKK and they certainly know what they're there for, its a service, and like any job the better you perform the better the rewards.
All I wanted was a good bottom with a hard body for my pleasure...not too much to ask, and I agreed on 2000 for the 3 hours, and in case you wondering have had boys want to leave after the 1st cum and its the 2nd round I really enjoy after a cold beer. But don't want sleep overs, hence the 3 hour time frame.

Must be my catholic upbringing, still feel bit guilty as the only reason he's peddling his behind is lack of other options...attractive thought but still bit sad.

Guess I will try trawling the front of the pan pacific hotel, always manage to hook a willing participant!!

Life IS cheap; I don't care what some hack NZ English teaching loser says. A go-go boy does not have to pay Tony Soprano to whack someone who has caused him to lose face. He can easily get it done completely for free.

[latintopxxx]

Chao Na...u funny..Tony Soprano!! Still think Thai boys pick their battles wisely, not gonna risk jail or worse when clearly there was no performance, know I'm not dealing with the creme de la creme of society but still think basic fairness will surface... Who's the NZ teacher...

Good topic and lots of contributions, specially the one from Cahos Na (it is not unusual). However, as someone pointed out we all must respect other human beings whatever circumstances they may be in. No one has the rright to disrespect anyone. Having said that we being in a previlaged position somethimes fail to understand the plight or the feelings of the boys we rent or take off from the Bars. They are human beings and have their own human diginity as wel all have. You come from the west and more civilised not to either kick-out another human being or insult him by just paying 50 Bahat. Rather you would have not paid him anything as some crude people suggested. It was your choice and you made a mistake in your choice. He honourable about it and treat him with respect and send him off as friend and pay him atleast the 10 Dollars which is nothing for you. We you behave petty your actions become petty and you will be considered a petty farang. As much as we all are discussing about this boy, remember how many friends of his friends must be discussing about your behaviour. So friends let us be human; because God has blessed us with more previlages than those under-previlaged boys, let us treat them badly. What goes around comes around guys.

Dont think, it is the boy who has learnt a leasson out of this. It is you who have learnt a lesson out of this .... because you said that you woke up the next morning feeling guilty about the whole thing. That's a food thing, because I believe next time you will be more human and more civilised representing the real western world.

[Smiles]

Well put. :cyclops:

Cheers ...

[painai2]

Here in Pattaya I always pay 1000 baht (or more) if they do want we had agreed on, which is 95% of the time. If
he doesn't do as promised, I usually will give 500 baht for his time and decide no more with that one. If he does do as promised
but I can't get excited for some reason, I still pay the 1000 baht.
Once I had a trick from Boyz Boyz Boyz, I joked with him on the way back to the condo that I would only him 500
baht if he was half as good as promised. Boy did he get hot! He yelled and grabbed my collar, "Am I going to have a
problem with you?" At that point, he wanted to go back to the mamasan and get it straight on what
I was paying. It seems that's a constant worry with the boys is that the customer won't pay. I've since learned
not to joke about money with the boy.

[latintopxxx]

sorry steevekoolguy, got nothing to do with western or Thai values, I rent boys in western countries too, (Geneva, Barcelona, Cape Town, u get the picture..) and I expect the appropriate sevice level.
If the mama san misprepresented the "goods" then the boy should go take it up with her...at least thats how my mind works.
As for the agreed fee, I realise relatively speaking its small money, probably why I feel bit crappy about the whole thing. I just see red when I feel I've been misled...silly I suppose should learn to let things go and have a giggle about it.

[Diec]

Let me get this straight...you go to the bar, pick the prostitute you like, are promised everything you want from not only the boy but the mamasan, get him to your room, and nothing happens. Instead of being upset because your time and off fees have been wasted, we now need to not only give this guy money, but make sure he saves face for not doing his job. Not only that...but now we have to fear for our life because he didn't perform yet still expects payment? These boys are contracting for work and if a contractor does not do what is promised I refuse to pay...no matter what type of contractor it is.

It seems that's a constant worry with the boys is that the customer won't payYes, I hear that too, quite often. I've even had such customers pointed out to me, on occasion, when I've been chatting to one of the Mem'sahibs while shouldering The White Man's Burden (yes, George, that is while making sure I have their current mobile phone number, thus avoiding the off fee - disintermediation, remember - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation )

I've started asking the boys in the last couple of days how many times they find Westerners with Big Balls so we can get a precise number on how many cancer sufferers we may have in our midst

That was a very good point. It is sometimes the mis-communication that creates the dissatisfaction: be it the boy or the customer. I heard a boy relatiing one of his worst experiences. A customer took him out and after having sex said "Thank You" and expected him to leave without being paid. When the boy asked him for the fees, he said I have already paid that to the Bar ... meaning the 300 Bhat off-fees. The customer was not worng, because that's what he understood from the mamasang. However, that customer coming from a rich-industralized Asian country was too cheap think that way or may he thought his lack of understanding English was to his advantage. However, this boy being a nice and uni student humbly walked out of the hotel. Poor soul. That night I doubled his gratitude by paying him 5000 Bhat ....... because I thought his behaviour was more civilized than our won

However, that customer coming from a rich-industralized Asian country was too cheap think that way or may he thought his lack of understanding English was to his advantage.Yes, I understand the Japanese are a real problem on this issue

Hello Latintopxxxx. I understand your feelings. Lets us put this behind and treat this as something we learnt in uour lives. Good to share our feelings. We all are lonely in someway as gays. So here in this forum we are together to share, shatter (lol) each other. Taske it easy and move on buddy

[nanette]

B3000 & B5000 for the boys? I think you're spoiling them. Why not give half of that amount to the orphanages, and the boys would still be grateful for having a customer that evening...

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I always try to be good to the boys regardless. As another poster said, they talk and besides, when I plan on revisiting places, I prefer to make friends rather than enemies. It is not a lot of money to give the boy a few hundred baht and acknowledge it is not working for either of you. I would view 50 baht as an insult and asking for trouble by demonstrating an attitude.

I also think it is money well spent to occasionally tip the mamasans. I also make some friendly small talk with them. Some people buy them drinks. I do not, I give them a tip and tell them openly thank you for taking care of me. I don't do this each and every time. When I am offing a boy, they will then generally talk to the boy and I seldom have problems. I look at it as an investment and I feel it has always paid off. Sometimes a boy is not working the night that I was looking for him and I have had a good mamasan call the boy and make arrangements. If the mamasan asks me to buy them a drink, I may joke with them that I am saving my money for the boys.

If you do get a reputation as a fairly generous soul-these boys aren't as mercenary as we like to think. They will get to know you as someone who is looked upon kindly..obviously they'll flock to you for drinks and such but isn't that nicer than having them think you are a meanie ?

Homintern : "I've started asking the boys in the last couple of days how many times they find Westerners with Big Balls so we can get a precise number on how many cancer sufferers we may have in our midst"

..the old bastards getting balmier by the day ! :geek:

[catawampuscat]

Most of us are nice men and don't want to be thought of as cheap and don't want
any problems, any violence or even anger..We pay in spite of bad service..

Especially in Bangkok, I have found that some of the more masculine guys promise
to do whatever is asked and then will not or cannot (maybe same thing).
They count on the customer giving them a decent tip and sometimes the full amount
as the customers want to avoid a confrontation and some customers even think it is their problem as they are so hideous, it is understandable that the boy cannot do what he promised.

Some of the bar boys can pull the same con game, promise everything and not deliver and
get away with it several times a nite and make lots of money for very little effort.
The lying mamasans get their piece from the boys and everyone is happy except for the customer who only gets frustrated.

Word of mouth is priceless and many of us ex-pats, warn each other about
non proformers, silicon cocks, implanted glass beaded cocks, anal worts, thiefs, bad mamasans.
Word of mouth is also priceless when the guy does provide excellent service.

One has to be careful, whom they listen to as some farangs only want to top and some only
want to bottom, and some only want to watch and some only want to touch, some only want
to service the boy and some only want other specific acts to make them satisfied..
You roll the dice with every new experience and have to take the good with bad and hopefully
learn from your experiences.. You will still make mistakes but maybe not as many.. :cat:

Homintern : "I've started asking the boys in the last couple of days how many times they find Westerners with Big Balls so we can get a precise number on how many cancer sufferers we may have in our midst"Come on Doris, pay attention. Your fellow Pattayan George has been confiding in us his problems with Big Balls; I think it's important that Forum members offer mutual support in sticky situations such as this

[allieb]

sorry steevekoolguy, got nothing to do with western or Thai values, I rent boys in western countries too, (Geneva, Barcelona, Cape Town, u get the picture..) and I expect the appropriate sevice level.
If the mama san misprepresented the "goods" then the boy should go take it up with her...at least thats how my mind works.
As for the agreed fee, I realise relatively speaking its small money, probably why I feel bit crappy about the whole thing. I just see red when I feel I've been misled...silly I suppose should learn to let things go and have a giggle about it.

If you did that wth one of your Geneva, Barcelona or Cape Town boys, you would probably be found dead and tied up with your bollocks in your mouth the next morning.

[allieb]

B3000 & B5000 for the boys? I think you're spoiling them. Why not give half of that amount to the orphanages, and the boys would still be grateful for having a customer that evening...

Because you want to or because you are on a guilt trip having just paid for sex

So it doesn't work out. Give him something for his time and he's on his way.
However, 50 baht is almost an insult, you're lucky he didn't do more than just try to take your cell phone.
I agree with at least 200 baht. Believe me, if you try to go back to that bar, all the boys will know how
much you gave and you won't be able to get anybody else. They talk about us like we talk about them.

well this is true-they are even worse than us and gossip like it's going out of style. Perhaps a firm look but never insult or make a boy or make him look foolish..and certainly don't insult him with such a pittance. Word will get around.

Remember-life is cheap including yours.
I usually put it down to a one off experience and would have been angry but probably given him more. talk to the boy before you off him he will not make promises he cannot keep but the mamasan will say anything to get a sale especially in low season I never talk to them. Eye contact with the boy ,body language will tell you a lot ,a little chat over a drink and then you "takes your chances"

[Dodger]

latintopxxx,

Question:

With all your global experience on the pay-for-sex scene, why do you have to rely on a bars mamasan for advice to begin with?

Obviously (through your own words, not mine), you are a self-centered person who lacks in having any real compassion for other people. Did it ever dawn on you that the boy you offed may have been brand new on the scene, or possibly doing this out of pure necessity to feed a family sdmewhere and simply froze during his interaction with you. Or, better yet, would this even matter to a person like you.

You can buy a persons time with your money, but when you start thinking that your money is more important than the person, you've just sold yourself.

[globalwanderer]

Dodger... spot on!

You should have paid the boy the baht. You take a chance and roll the dice. To you the 500baht is pocket change but to the boy it is much more. If you felt cheated you should have gone back to the bar and spoke with either the mamasan or the manager. The kid may have been a newbie and not sure of what was expected. Now when you return to the bar and the boy is there he will no doubt relate the fact you cheated him and believe me nothing gets around faster than a farang cheating someone,

[PeterUK]

Obviously (through your own words, not mine), you are a self-centered person who lacks in having any real compassion for other people.

A bit harsh of you to single out latintop for this judgement, Dodger. ALL people who use the services of prostitutes are behaving in a self-centred fashion and are likely to treat others more and more as objects over time. The coarsening effect on one's own character, being so insidious and hard to detect, is probably the greatest danger that the regular user of prostitutes faces, more so than the more obvious risks like STDs, physical assaults, blackmail (in some cases) and so on. Clearly some customers treat the sex workers they take off with more decency, generosity and respect than others, but I don't think anyone avoids the dehumanising effects completely, however rosy the image of himself and of what he does he might have. The same coarsening process is at work in the sex workers as well.

From his few posts on this board I wouldn't presume to say where latintop fits in on the scale of selfishness and lack of compassion. I certainly see nothing wrong in reducing payment if an agreed service is not delivered. The boys talk among themselves, yes, but the reputation you will get if you always pay well, regardless of the quality of service, is as a soft touch, not a genuinely 'jai dee' person. Assuming there is not more to the story than latintop has mentioned, I doubt very much whether he now has to walk in fear of his life because he only gave the boy fifty baht!

(sex shows have really gone downhill, police clampdown!!)

I am constantly told on this board that if you object to the police raids on the bars that you must be doing something illegal: maybe underage sex or drugs, or or perhaps even worse.

I read with alarm PeterUK's account of the coarsening effect of sex with prostitutes. Is this due to friction? Would baby lotion help?

In my opinion, you behaved very badly. You reached an understanding with the mamasan, and not with the guy directly involved. The mamasan lied to you. The boy was not the bottom you were looking for. You therefore have an "issue" with the mamasan.

I would suggest the following basic rule to you (as in "Always tip a guy 100 baht for coming to sit with you.") If he actually comes back to your place and you decide that things are not working out, say something like, "I'm sorry, I took my sleeping pill by mistake and need to sleep alone because I snore a lot." And give him 500 baht for his trouble.

He'll go peacefully, and that was the goal in the first place. You attempted to fob him off with the absurdly small sum of 50 baht -- hardly enough for a dish of noodles or two -- and he was insulted.

Wouldn't you be?

Obviously (through your own words, not mine), you are a self-centered person who lacks in having any real compassion for other people.

A bit harsh of you to single out latintop for this judgement, Dodger. ALL people who use the services of prostitutes are behaving in a self-centred fashion and are likely to treat others more and more as objects over time. The coarsening effect on one's own character, being so insidious and hard to detect, is probably the greatest danger that the regular user of prostitutes faces, more so than the more obvious risks like STDs, physical assaults, blackmail (in some cases) and so on. Clearly some customers treat the sex workers they take off with more decency, generosity and respect than others, but I don't think anyone avoids the dehumanising effects completely, however rosy the image of himself and of what he does he might have. The same coarsening process is at work in the sex workers as well.

From his few posts on this board I wouldn't presume to say where latintop fits in on the scale of selfishness and lack of compassion. I certainly see nothing wrong in reducing payment if an agreed service is not delivered. The boys talk among themselves, yes, but the reputation you will get if you always pay well, regardless of the quality of service, is as a soft touch, not a genuinely 'jai dee' person. Assuming there is not more to the story than latintop has mentioned, I doubt very much whether he now has to walk in fear of his life because he only gave the boy fifty baht!

Hey, Petie -- is your character slowly but insidiously "coarsening?" After all -- the danger to ONESELF is the greatest danger of all!

I remember reading a long and ludicrous posting of yours where you met a bar-host after a lapse of ten years. You were SHOCKED by the fact that he wasn't as cute as he used to be, and walked off into the night feeling sorry FOR YOURSELF. Poor, poor puppy PeterUK, your "character" must be "coarsening" [whatever the hell that means], and we must all join in a circle and sing "Kumbaya" over your poor helpless coarsening self.

But just which of your selves decided to move to Pattaya? Was it that "coarsening" one?

Blame, blame, blame -- who gets the blame? "Anyone -- ANYONE -- but me!"

[Wesley]

It was late and after I had listened to dull McCainтАЩs speech last night when I read your post, but even half asleep and bored to death I knew better than to give a boy 50 Baht. If you condense it all down to all the advice you got here since almost 12 hours went by, I would say the consensus is that you were a bit out of line and so was the mamasan. I once ask for a bottom from a mamasan, when he got home he tried but no matter how much he tried he was obviously a virgin and it was not going to work either that or he was so afraid it would hurt he was tightening his hole. Either way I didnтАЩt get what I wanted but, at least he made an attempt. So, I just did other things, paid him the minimum I thought was the normal for Bangkok he was happy and we both got off but, I got no booty. So I didnтАЩt over tip him which I usually do but I didnтАЩt underpay him either. It was too late for him to go back to the bar and find another off, but it was the mamasaun that made the deal saying he could do it and sold me the story тАЬit all okay he like you.тАЭ So, I just did not go back to that bar again assuming the mamasan was not as honest as you might want to deal with. I am sure she knew the guy was likely a virgin and would not be able to take it with out a lot of pain. So, I improvised and we both got off and had a good night sleep. I paid him bought his Breakfast and never went back to the bar again. That trip any way.

So, I would say having sex is not just a contract, the boy is human and certain things need to work for everything to work either chemistry or taking your time or not rushing into it. I like to go slow and easy anyway take my time have a bit of romance with the occasion and try to make friends with the boy before I have sex. By the time you do that, both of you are ready for a good time. Sex is not all contract its Chemistry too. I am sure it would have been hard for me as a young man to turn my ass up for some old fart and I assume they are as human as I am.

Wes

Put it right. Go back to the bar early in the evening and give him 1000bht. Then he can eat.

[Dodger]

PeterUK Wrote:


ALL people who use the services of prostitutes are behaving in a self-centred fashion and are likely to treat others more and more as objects over time.

With all due respect Peter...speak for yourself.

The only thing that coursens me over time is my opinion of farangs who think they have some kind of God-given right to treat other people as OBJECTS, regardless of who the person is, or what their line-of-work is.

As far as my remarks to latintopxxx seeming harsh to you, well, they were intended to be direct, not harsh. Harsh is just a perception.

mai pen rai

[joe552]

When I off a boy, I'm paying for his time, not for a specific sex act. If he's given his time, he deserves to be paid, regardless of how good I felt the sex was.

If he's taken his clothes off & made an attempt to perform the promised services, you should at least pay him 500.

If he has not, then send him on his way with nothing.

[Diec]

If he's taken his clothes off & made an attempt to perform the promised services, you should at least pay him 500.

If he has not, then send him on his way with nothing.

Let's see...the boy gets to your room, and after half an hour he cannot perform or make you happy so he should get 500 baht to leave. That's almost $30 an hour for doing nothing...not a bad gig.

[dab69]

When I off a boy, I'm paying for his time, not for a specific sex act. If he's given his time, he deserves to be paid, regardless of how good I felt the sex was.

up to them has always been my rule also

Also, I always go to three/four bars and and be picky,
so I am expecting them to deserve a bigger tip to start with.

[adman5000]

I like Nelson's suggestion. Make it right.

Go back to the bar, seek out the boy and slip him at least 500 baht. It will not hurt you and you will feel better, it will help the boy and the boy will definitely feel better. If the boy speaks very little ENglish, get someone to act as intermediary and explain.

PeterUK Wrote:


ALL people who use the services of prostitutes are behaving in a self-centred fashion and are likely to treat others more and more as objects over time.

With all due respect Peter...speak for yourself.

The only thing that coursens me over time is my opinion of farangs who think they have some kind of God-given right to treat other people as OBJECTS, regardless of who the person is, or what their line-of-work is.

As far as my remarks to latintopxxx seeming harsh to you, well, they were intended to be direct, not harsh. Harsh is just a perception.

mai pen rai

Not wishing to add to the heated controversy this thread already seems to have generated, as if I would ever be guilty of such a thing, I would like to say that I didn't find Dodgers comments ones I would consider as being harsh in anyway whatsoever. Furthermore, I agree 100 per cent with everything he has said, not only the comments made by him above, but also the ones he made in his previous post.

Were it not for the benevolent mood I find myself in at present, I would add my own two satang as to how I feel concerning the comments that were made by the OP. If I had done that, like Dodger's, my comments would have been direct, but in addition to being direct, would also have given a far more apt and accurate definition of the word harsh, of that you should be in no doubt, I assure you.

Choc Dee Dodger, as I said above, I believe the comments made by you in both of your posts were not only very well said on your part, but also as far as this member is concerned, right bang on the button.


George.

[fedssocr]

Let's see...the boy gets to your room, and after half an hour he cannot perform or make you happy so he should get 500 baht to leave. That's almost $30 an hour for doing nothing...not a bad gig.

Isn't that calculation a bit misleading? How many "clients" will a boy likely have in a day? Probably no more than one if he is lucky. So that $14 (Bt500) has to last him the day and quite possibly several days.

Let's see...the boy gets to your room, and after half an hour he cannot perform or make you happy so he should get 500 baht to leave. That's almost $30 an hour for doing nothing...not a bad gig.

Isn't that calculation a bit misleading? How many "clients" will a boy likely have in a day? Probably no more than one if he is lucky. So that $14 (Bt500) has to last him the day and quite possibly several days.

Be careful you are not seized upon fedssocr for making that statement of yours above, for what can be the dastardly "crime" here sometimes of displaying obvious common sense. I say that even though it should be totally apparent to everyone here and with no criticism whatsoever intended toward you, that the terminology more often than not used in cases to describe something similar to what you have said above, is known as: Stating the Bleeding Obvious.


Thanks anyway,


George.

[francois]

Offing a boy is like buying a bottle of wine. You spend time making your selection; take it home; uncork it; sniff the aroma; swirl and enjoy the color; sip and savor the flavor; and enjoy! But, if an off bottle, you just dump it. But the price is the same whether good, mediocre or bad. If totally spoiled one might return for a refund but not in Thailand!

[Beachlover]

Wow... this must be the fastest growing thread ever!

If it was really that bad... I would've paid him between 300-600 baht to leave.

But I can understand if you were upset or weren't sure what the "norm" is. When you off a boy... I guess you have to take a certain risk. At the end of the day, whether he performs or not, you need to pay him, at least for his time. 50 baht is really a huge insult. He would've been fuming afterwards. And he would not be feeling guilty at all for not performing.

I would cautiously go back to the bar and give the mamasan 500 baht to give to him. It's also a chance to tell the mamasan he/she wasn't exactly honest with you.

Always important to make sure before the off that the expectations on both sides are well understood. Bad performance is one thing, no effort quite another. One the one occasion I had a dud (no effort), I gave him enough for a meal and transportation (~300 baht) and sent him on his way.

[PeterUK]

I would cautiously go back to the bar and give the mamasan 500 baht to give to him. It's also a chance to tell the mamasan he/she wasn't exactly honest with you.

Give the mamasan 500B to pass on to him??? The very last thing he should do considering the mamasan has already shown himself to be a liar. And I wouldn't be pussyfooting around when I told the mamasan that he 'wasn't exactly honest' either. I confess that I misread the opening post first time round and assumed that the boy had confirmed with latintop what the mamasan had already said about his preferences. If latintop didn't check with the boy himself before leaving the bar, then it does indeed put his behaviour in the room in a different and worse light. He should have given the boy about 500B and made a face-saving excuse.

[Shuee]

although there are NO strict rules , i have learned to;

1 - when you discuss what you want & what you are paying for, have it repeated to the guy direct from the mamasun you arranged this with, with all 3 of you face to face.

2 - you need to bear in mind that mamasuns will tell you (sometimes) not the truth, thats becuase they hope to get some money from the guys when he returns to the bar, or you leave with a big smile after hearing all the lies from the mamasun & then you unknowingly tip her in kind, that way its a win win situation for her

3- if you are positive the guy understood you at the bar, & that you didnt cause any unjust yourself in anyway without knowing it, then what you gave in return was so so,
you may feel better if i tell you that i know very rich customers that when promised a bottom & this is then turnt down, or the guy says it hurts after one quick stroke, that they then get shown the door with not even 1baht. again you can go into this much detail in the bar if you are that concerned, but bare in mind if you get this fussy the guy may switch the convesation to the likes of 'how much you pay for this'
dont be shy to go into details with mamasun, they wont bat an eyelid, & have heard it all before, after all it suppose to be there job

4- as pointed out, do you need to maintain harmony at the bar & with this guy, or your not bothered with worrying about returning there with possible future implications

5- i was told some good advice when i first started out, if you ask for an item at a store that does most things, but then when you return home it does do this or work properly, would you take it back to the store? i bet you would, so you do this with the guy, i have had enough of stupid lying mamasuns causing me to waste money & make me unhappy. you can take the guy back to the bar, some get a harsh talking to from good trustworhty mamasuns, or some get scared at this threat & then comply, you can then get your off fee back or another guy offerd to you. or if do nothing, you leave the door open for this guy to give the next customer a bad experience, & or persuade his friends that it is also acceptable, when it damn well isnt.

we all learn lessons, i tipped a guy who was annoying me & wouldnt even let me touch him, 100bt more, just to make sure he left without annoying me any further, yes that was stupid, i should point out that nothing was negotiated before hand.

if you are fair, & most importantly, you must be sure the guy understands what you want at the bar before you pay the off fee, that way you shouldnt go far wrong

[lonelywombat]

Offing a boy is like buying a bottle of wine. You spend time making your selection; take it home; uncork it; sniff the aroma; swirl and enjoy the color; sip and savor the flavor; and enjoy! But, if an off bottle, you just dump it. But the price is the same whether good, mediocre or bad. If totally spoiled one might return for a refund but not in Thailand!

Thank you for balanced statement The cheap charlies are rampant again. An excellent post

Offing a boy is like buying a bottle of wine. You spend time making your selection; take it home; uncork it; sniff the aroma; swirl and enjoy the colour; sip and savour the flavour; and enjoy! But, if an off bottle, you just dump it. But the price is the same whether good, mediocre or bad. If totally spoiled one might return for a refund but not in Thailand!

No, if the bottle is COMPLETELY off, I take it back for a refund. Also the same applies with real ale.
If it's merely below average to poor, then of course I accept that natural products vary.

If the guy's made a genuine but unskilled attempt at a BJ give him 500 & try your best to explain why he's only getting 500.
On the other hand, if he's got no intention of providing the agreed service, you may have good reasons for kicking him out.

[Dodger]

Pop the cork...smell the sweet aroma...swish a little around in your mouth for a while...slowly lick the rim...and let the flavors consume your soul.

Now, that's worth more than 50 baht - evan for an off vintage bottle.

[francois]

Pop the cork...smell the sweet aroma...swish a little around in your mouth for a while...slowly lick the rim...and let the flavors consume your soul.

Now, that's worth more than 50 baht - evan for an off vintage bottle.

Dodger, Will you share a "bottle" of wine with me? We can split the cost?
Fran├зois

[Beachlover]

I would cautiously go back to the bar and give the mamasan 500 baht to give to him. It's also a chance to tell the mamasan he/she wasn't exactly honest with you.

Give the mamasan 500B to pass on to him??? The very last thing he should do considering the mamasan has already shown himself to be a liar. And I wouldn't be pussyfooting around when I told the mamasan that he 'wasn't exactly honest' either. I confess that I misread the opening post first time round and assumed that the boy had confirmed with latintop what the mamasan had already said about his preferences. If latintop didn't check with the boy himself before leaving the bar, then it does indeed put his behaviour in the room in a different and worse light. He should have given the boy about 500B and made a face-saving excuse.

Yes.... that's what he SHOULD HAVE done... but now that he's done what he's done... perhaps going back with something for the boy would be a good idea. Or perhaps not. I don't know...

[sjaak327]

You shoud feel quilty. A deal is a deal, if it doesn't turn out allright, then the least you could have done is give the lad 500 baht or something like that.

I haven't got much respect for people who pay for sex, but if you somehow are limited to that, no problem, but then I think you cannot send someone back with 50 baht taxi money. We are dealing with people here, and this guy did go with you. I doubt he will see much of the barfine you already paid, so you basically gave him nothing for the time he spent with you.

I wouldn't go near Twilight for a few weeks if I were you, it could turn out nasty, these people don't like cheapskate farang whoremongers. :)

Edit: I realize now that this is an old thread, didn't know that when posted the above.

You shoud feel quilty. A deal is a deal, if it doesn't turn out allright, then the least you could have done is give the lad 500 baht or something like that.

I haven't got much respect for people who pay for sex, but if you somehow are limited to that, no problem, but then I think you cannot send someone back with 50 baht taxi money. We are dealing with people here, and this guy did go with you. I doubt he will see much of the barfine you already paid, so you basically gave him nothing for the time he spent with you.

I wouldn't go near Twilight for a few weeks if I were you, it could turn out nasty, these people don't like cheapskate farang whoremongers. :)

Edit: I realize now that this is an old thread, didn't know that when posted the above.

An old thread? Despite the fact this thread is five pages long now, the first post in it was made barely two days ago. As a result of this fact and out of interest, what time frame do you consider a thread has to be made in, for you to qualify it as being a new one?


Cheers,


George.

[sjaak327]

An old thread? Despite the fact this thread is five pages long now, the first post in it was made barely two days ago. As a result of this fact and out of interest, what time frame do you consider a thread has to be made in, for you to qualify it as being a new one?


Cheers,


George.

My bad, I looked at the OP's join date instead of post date. Not an old thread indeed :)

[Wesley]

well I was going to say soemthing but I was sure Smiles would not fail to mention when the thread began.

Wes

if this happened for instance in Sunee Plaza I wouldn't dare to show up again. Thais got a perfect photographical memory and a well working bush drum. You're now branded as a wage dodger.

An old thread? Despite the fact this thread is five pages long now, the first post in it was made barely two days ago. As a result of this fact and out of interest, what time frame do you consider a thread has to be made in, for you to qualify it as being a new one?


Cheers,


George.

My bad, I looked at the OP's join date instead of post date. Not an old thread indeed :)

Many thanks for the courtesy of your reply and the explanation given in it. I have to admit, that the mistake made by you is one I have been guilty of making myself in the past.


Choc Dee,


George.

Pop the cork...smell the sweet aroma...swish a little around in your mouth for a while...slowly lick the rim...and let the flavors consume your soul.How did you all know I had a boy sitting on my face last night? :idea:

You write тАЬBit of a dilemmaтАжтАЭ One of the definitions of тАЬdilemmaтАЭ is: тАЬa situation that requires a choice between options that are or seem equally unfavorable or mutually exclusive.тАЭ So, whatтАЩs your dilemma in this situation?

It seems, rather, that you have posted your two-hundred word anecdote using this forum as a personal confessional and are seeking absolution and/or validation via a consensus of its posters. (Your question: "Was I wrong?тАЭ) The answer is obvious.

The flocks of Western tourists to Thailand and its unique attractions have been preceded by many others over the past decades. And out of our collective behavior, the Thai people have formed a lurid stereotype of us. That is, we are: boorish, arrogant, black-hearted, lacking in empathy, niggardly, and sometimes, malodorous. Although you havenтАЩt been coming here long enough to be its archetype, the narcissistic behavior you have described does indeed contribute to the reinforcement of their worst opinions of us. And for that and the acts of many other visitors and ex-pats (both straight and gay), the rest of us must constantly be put to the test by the Thai people for us to prove that we are тАЬnot like the others.тАЭ (Talk about тАЬspoiling it for the rest of usтАЭ!)

This situation is not altogether unredeemable (Quote: тАЬMust be my Catholic upbringing, still feel bit guilty as the only reason he's peddling his behind is lack of other options...attractive thought but still bit sad.тАЭ) Despite this patronizing stance, you have sought absolution through othersтАЩ opinions. So, yes, you were wrong.

For the sin of objectifying a human being тАУ you had reduced a person to a mere number (тАЬtook a fancy to one of the numbersтАЭ, тАЬthe number only knew about 20 English wordsтАЭ, тАЬthe number turned out to be just about uselessтАЭ) [By the way, were you a guard at Auschwitz in a previous life?] тАУ

тАжand for the sin of niggardliness (тАЬтАж I refused to pay him more than THB50тАжтАЭ) тАж

Your penance is to return to the bar and give the young man an appropriate amount of money, along with a smiling apology. Since you represent a sample size of a far larger group, it will salve many wounds.

An eloquent and wise post, Schadenfreude. My suggestion to "make it right" was meant literally, not symbolically. An ex-pat friend did some something similar a few months ago when I was having a drink with him. He recalled that, a few days earlier, he had underpaid a guy he had offed (the details are unimportant); we returned to the bar together and he called the guy off the podium and "made it better." Warm smiles all around; the cost was a few hundred baht. Cheap at the price. All visitors to Thailand pay a heavy price for the misdeeds of (I hope) a minority, whether it is manifest in Gary Glitter-type behaviour or in a lack of respect for the culture or humanity of our graceful hosts.
A few months ago, as I was saying goodbye to my dear Thai friend (yes, a former go-go boy) he struggled with his limited English to say something nice as a farewell. The best he could come up with was,"You not same as other farang." He wasn't right of course; I've met many decent ones there and some post on this board. However, I know what he meant.

[latintopxxx]

Finally home, flew sunday night, despite some of the warnings posted I popped back (alone) to soi twilight on saturday night, told the mamasan she sold me a reject fuck...she giggled and promised me a "discount" next time!! Told her that trying to stal my phone wasn'y game...she said "only joking"...left it at that.
Spent the better part of the night flirting from one bar to another...shows seem to be making a comeback...still no head bashed in; guess fairness prevailed.
Repled to some potings below, but guess this thread is more or less exhausted.



Dodger, yr posting on friday. I rely on the mamasan because of the language gap. As for why someone turns to prostitution is not my concern, it simply turns me on to purchase the service, most definitely a different sexual situation compared to where you attract a partner because the sexual chemistryis right for both. As for selling myself...don't get it, maybe I need a connect the dots book.
What is your definition of farang?...anyone not Thai?

luvthai: nonsense, I too work for a living, if I don't perform my bonus suffers and soon my jpb is on the line. Just because someone takes it up the arse for a living doesn't give them a special exemption. No peformance, no pay. After all I didn't acuse a scene, I wasn't the one trying to grab his phone. As for THB500 being pocket change, thats not the point!

dickhunter: not sure why the sex shows have stopped, all I do is sit there, drink beer and watch the sexual acrobatics...which by the way I think are absolutely incredible, watched quite avfew shows in Brazil, budapest and mexico...but these are usually pretty vanilla...the Thai boys most certainly provide "value for money"

sjaak327: racist comments like "cheapskate farang whoremongers. :) " arre uncalled for..again what is your definition of a farang?...anyone not Thai? And what about lying cheating double dealing mamasan in cahoots with looser rent boys...

marc1947; photographic memory...of what?...a mosquito?

schadenfreude: In case you haven't notices the boys all wear numbers..twit. With a German handle you use the word Auschwitz...what is this guilt transference...go check your microwave oven...twit

Why did you start this thread in the first place, if you were going to rudely reject all contrary opinions?

[latintopxxx]

So now having a different opinion is "rudely reject"...funny.

So now having a different opinion is "rudely reject"...funny.Welcome to SGT!

[Wesley]

So now having a different opinion is "rudely reject"...funny.Welcome to SGT!

Lols from the queen of nasty

Wes

[Wesley]

you were wrong by well over any margin of posters, If you did not want to know what they thought why ask?

Wes

[latintopxxx]

Wesley, disagree, think that the comments in most part were balanced, I disregard the "you gotta pay or you die" replies as thats not how I live my life. Lotsa comments were neutral or in favor. As one would expect a whole range of opinions. I asked a question, got opinions and rebutted...thats called debate.

[Wesley]

Was I wrong not to pay the gogo boy? that was not a debate question it was asking if I was wrong, no one said they would have left the guy with 50 Baht. If they did I missed it. I thnik the consnesus was to make it right. or just admit you were wrong. I persoanlly think other than the cell phone incidnet you were totally wrong , but the 50 baht brought on the cell phone incidnet. I would never send a guy off with a 50 Baht tipThat is like a one dollar tip after a 40 dollar steak dinner And ask Spike how he would feel about that. Since you already taken him off stage , he could have tricked with some he was attracted to and made his lunch money. Your questiom was worded like what do you think... was I wrong. not if I was wrong why.... if I was right why. You ask a question and I would have taken them into account when doing it again . Persoanlly I would have made it right with at least pay his time off work for missing a paying trick. I agree with Chao Na, they are not meat, they are people, I refuse to use the word human again... LOL lighten up. we are all fags with our queenish opinions. Only thing worse are old women in the beauty parlor. Take it as a grain of salt or learn from it.

Wes

With his attitude I fully expect that we will be reading of his demise someday. A group of barboys doing in a cheating farang in some back street alley or maybe it will be one of those accidental falls from a high rise balcony.

[latintopxxx]

luvthai...if the only reason you would pay is to avoid a beating then thats sad...living your life in fear...you should pay because its the right thing, because your conscience do dictates...not because you are fearful...

[sjaak327]

No problem, you are a cheapskate whoremonger, is that non racist ?

[Dodger]

latintopxxx wrote:


I rely on the mamasan because of the language gap.

No...I suspect that you rely on the mamasan because of the gap between your ears.

This story you're dishing out about your bold and courageous march back to Soi Twilight to set the mamasan straight doesn't fit the modes operande of a person like you. People who are shallow and self-centered always think of them selves first, at all cost. In this scenereo, you would have read the responses you received from us FARANGS, got a little worried about what could happen to YOUR ass, and marched back to Soi Twilight to kiss the mamasans ass and put a few more baht in the boys pocket, which is exactly what I think you did. That is, if you even had the balls to show your face at Soi Twilgiht.

Sorry if my prediction is inaccurate...I'm just trying to connect your dots.

[lonelywombat]

luvthai...if the only reason you would pay is to avoid a beating then thats sad...living your life in fear...you should pay because its the right thing, because your conscience do dictates...not because you are fearful...

Why then are you trying to justify your cheap charlie attitude on this forum

We all know of bar boys whoas a group have attacked a farang who cheated a bar boy

no one here has any sympathy for you

you deserve what you get, plus.

[catawampuscat]

Why did you start this thread in the first place, if you were going to rudely reject all contrary opinions?

One has to hope that this posting was tongue in cheek. Chao Na is reknown for following advice given here and accepting contrary opinions with grace and style..

Most of the farangs I known are obsessed with sex and boys and find it in Pattaya.
francois, is not adverse to the pleasures of the flesh, but his search for good wine
often frustrates him in Pattaya..
Another farang I know also makes his choice of where to go for a drink, dependent on
the quality and quantity of the wine..
:cat:

Ouch! Such sticks and stones to all who correctly answered his question! (тАЬWas I wrong?тАЭ)

We donтАЩt use the word тАЬtwitтАЬin my country, so I looked it up (тАЬA foolishly annoying personтАЭ, which may perfectly describe most go-go bar mamasans.)

(And by no means am I German or have German sympathies; he should look up тАЬSchadenfreudeтАЭ in the dictionary. And thus he would understand how I would have been delighted to have heard that the mamasan had dumped a bowl of noodles on his head, or had done something worse.)

As I was trying not to be too blunt on the board, I so much held back what I really felt about the hostile and narcissistic personality clearly revealed in that personтАЩs posts; and his last one confirms that he surely must be the anti-Christ of Thailand tourists - or his first cousin.

[Beachlover]

So now having a different opinion is "rudely reject"...funny.Welcome to SGT!

Lols from the queen of nasty

Wes

ROFL ... at the very least, homintern and Chao Na together make the board entertaining... lols

homintern is going to choke on his cavier when he sees I've "bundled" him in with Chao Na... :D :D :D

[Beachlover]

This kind of question is always going to be on the receiving end of some emotional responses...

Gotta remember though, whether you think he was right, wrong, or partially right or wrong, it's not like he's squashing ladybugs or throwing puppies off a cliff... it's a minor incident.

He merely did what HE thought was right at the time, taking into mind his feelings and expectations at the time. I would've paid the boy some decent money, but I imagine he was feeling pretty scammed. This is never a nice feeling and doesn't leave one feeling particularly tolerant or generous.

And remember, what HE thought was right is seen through his eyes... his view of the situation and the boy, which is probably different from someone who's spent years getting to know the country or developed a great love for LOS. It's probably also different from someone who views it as less of a "service" and is curious enough to discover the "human" side of this scene.

Everyone views the situation from different eyes, different perspective... you can't hate him for that.

And as for being "self-centred" and "worrying about yourself first"... there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean he's not concerned about the boy or others.

And as for the boy, if he doesn't get over it, he might not be in the right profession. You gotta feel sorry for him having a bad night, or bad week, or bad month, but he'll get over it and move on. Boys are resiliant creatures.

At the end, even the mamasan didn't take it so seriously, it seems.

[giggsy]

"Schadenfreude.An alternative sketch comedy troupe that writes and performs social and political satire. Information on upcoming shows, reviews, biographies, ..."

this is not another subtle advert for pattaya players is it? :argue:

[naklua]

If latintopxxx was right to not pay the boy depends from what perspective one interpretes "right". Seen from the angle of right in the sense of being a

comfortable decision, he was probably wrong. He now maybe runs the risk of a fight with the boy and/or his friends. On the other hand one should not

overestimate this risk, because the loss of face the boy is said to have suffered did not happen in the public. So the loss of face was restricted to be watched by

latintopxxx only - in my opinion Non-Thais do not count so much when loss of face is concerned. In other words, there was no real loss of face. Consequently no

reason to retailiate violently. Still on the other hand the boy can gossip about him with the other boys from the bar, but one can not be to sure, because this

behaviour will eventually lead to the loss of face... But he can modify the story to make himself look better in front of the other boys (and latintopxxx look worse).

For sure he will not tell the story that it was agreed for him to bottom and that he then did nothing but wanted to steal the mobile... This story would only enrage

yaba-adicts with a natural bad attitude.
Seen from the angle of doing the right thing regarding paying only for services rendered, he was completely right not to pay as the agreed service was not

rendered. If I for example agree with a supposed gardener to get rid of the weeds and plant some new flowers and he does not do anything of these services

but tries instead to steal something from my belongings I would not feel any guilt not to pay him. I think most people would agree it would be the right thing to

do to report someone like this to the police. Of course gardening and the rent boy thing are not the same. Prostitution is illegal in LOS (hypocrisy rules like in the

other Land of the Free...), thus complaining to the boys in brown would not be such a good idea. On the other hand one has to take into account the details of the situation, i.e. was the boy rude, was latintopxxx rude, etc. Trying to steal the phone does not picture the boy in a to good light, however...

latintopxxx never wanted to know if he was wrong as he has already jusitfied his decision in his own mind. Now that we offer opinions he is defensive.

[Wesley]

latintopxxx never wanted to know if he was wrong as he has already jusitfied his decision in his own mind. Now that we offer opinions he is defensive.

agreed

shit happens and it gnaws at ones conscience, 7 pages of postings, I think you're not through yet.

After lurking on the site I just had to join and comment on this one. What is the name of the bar with the cute virgin guys???

After lurking on the site I just had to join and comment on this one. What is the name of the bar with the cute virgin guys???

The Mirage I would expect. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk216/ThaiRakThai/whistling.gif


George.

[catawampuscat]

It is across the soi from the Forty Virgins Girl Bar, where Islamic neo-fascist terrorists
just die to go to.. sorry, no alcohol served but water hookers galore..
What would we do without newbies to stir up the old codgers? welcome
ron-ca, it looks like a bright future, as posters with a sense of humor are as rare
as virgins in Pattaya boy bars..
I am glad to see George working on a new name for his new boy bar.. Mirage Boys
sounds good but I wouldn't try Virgin Boys.. choke dee newbies and oldies.. :cat:

[latintopxxx]

luvthai=shaddap
weslwy=don't get me started...shaddap now...get a life...

[Brad the Impala]

luvthai=shaddap
weslwy=don't get me started...shaddap now...get a life...

You are just a figment of your own imagination dear. Latintopxxx........hah you wish! You have certainly had your fun on this forum, and provoking a seven page thread gives you a five star credit for your trolling skills.

[netrix]

latintopxxx wrote:


I rely on the mamasan because of the language gap.

No...I suspect that you rely on the mamasan because of the gap between your ears.

This story you're dishing out about your bold and courageous march back to Soi Twilight to set the mamasan straight doesn't fit the modes operande of a person like you. People who are shallow and self-centered always think of them selves first, at all cost. In this scenereo, you would have read the responses you received from us FARANGS, got a little worried about what could happen to YOUR ass, and marched back to Soi Twilight to kiss the mamasans ass and put a few more baht in the boys pocket, which is exactly what I think you did. That is, if you even had the balls to show your face at Soi Twilgiht.

Sorry if my prediction is inaccurate...I'm just trying to connect your dots.


dodger, i think i'm in love with you.

[netrix]

...He merely did what HE thought was right at the time.

If that were true he wouldn't have asked the question. He knows he was wrong.
He felt guilty, but now that he's embarrassed himself he feels defensive. Even
dirty old Latin Farangs have feelings. hmmm... think how the boy must have felt.

[netrix]

latintopxxx never wanted to know if he was wrong as he has already jusitfied his decision in his own mind. Now that we offer opinions he is defensive.

oops posted my last before seeing luvthai's response above. my opinion same same.

Yes, you were wrong.

Yes, you were wrong.

Something we can all agree on.

[latintopxxx]

what a bunch of loosers...effecting payment even though the promised service was not provided....fearful of offending/slighting rent numbers...if I ran my life this way I wouldn't have 2 cents to rub together....unbelievable

[globalwanderer]

you are the one who is unbelievable

why post the question if you thought you were right.


maybe once he saw you in the room he thought, no way!

you relied on a mamasan... stupid, why penalise the boy.

We've all had the bad night! Take it, it's the territory. That does not mean we insult the boy with a 50 baht tip.

If you want to survive here, learn!!! The mamasan will say anything to achieve the off. Who promised you anything, the boy or the mamasan!

You seem to forget that the boys are human beings and have feelings to. The mamasan possibly ordered him to go with you against his wishes. You are the one who obviously feels the boys are there to be used to satisfy you and have no feelings of their own.

50 Baht... an insult in any culture!

you are the one who needs to get a life!

either state clearly you were, in your opinion correct, and shut up, or admit that you were wrong and shut up!!!

But 7 pages ....

I think that most posters have two cents -and even more in some cases- to rub together, managing to put food on the table (not to mention frequent trips to Thailand) and yet have learnt to treat Thais respectfully. My Thai friend has taught me someting of Buddhism over the past five years and one of his precepts is that what you give-good or bad- is returned to you ten-fold.
Come to think of it, I was told that in Sunday School too.

[joe552]

Can't believe this 'conversation' is still going on, but I totally agree with you, Nelson. He'll get his comeuppance!

I'd be embarrassed to give a 50bt tip to a waiter or bellman in a hotel, never mind someone who came back to my room.

I'd be embarrassed to give a 50bt tip to a waiter or bellman in a hotel :cyclopsani:

[Bob]

I was a little puzzled too about the comment about the 50baht tip to a bellman or waiter. Maybe I'm a cheap bastard but I always thought that would be considered a pretty damn good tip to a bellman and not bad for a waiter too.
I've understood that you tip a bellman (if he's taking up your luggage or loading the luggage into a car for you) 20 baht per bag and, while I might give a little more on occasion, I've never gotten the "you cheap bastard" look.
I always overtip at restaurants too, at least according to my CM boss, but I normally leave at least 10% with a minimum of about 50 baht.

[joe552]

I was merely trying to emphasise the point that 50bt would be an insulting tip for a boy you've offed - okay perhaps for a waiter or bellman. Wasn't implying there's more than one cheap bastard on this thread.

[dab69]

I was merely trying to emphasise the point that 50bt would be an insulting tip for a boy you've offed - okay perhaps for a waiter or bellman. Wasn't implying there's more than one cheap bastard on this thread.


But this guy REALLY tops the list.

The guy should have gotten bT 100-200 just to sit and have a drink with him at the bar.
Add a trip to the hotel and return trip, time spent at the hotel
and he got a whopping $1.60. Woo-hoo big spender!

My setangs worth. IMO these boys earn EVERY SINGLE SETANG they get. use a bit of emphaty, and put yourself in their place. They have to go with whoever picks them off the stage or bar. Once that hotel door shuts they are on their own, any thing could happen to them. And have a look in the mirror, YUCK.

[latintopxxx]

drfang, obviously unlike yourdelf I look pretty good in the mirror (37, 1.8m, 73kg) and I choose trade because it turns me on...

drfang, obviously unlike yourdelf I look pretty good in the mirror (37, 1.8m, 73kg) and I choose trade because it turns me on...

37? Disgusting. I wouldn't give you the time of day for 100 times what you paid that poor gogo boy.

Not good- looking enough, however, to turn the go-go dancer on.
May I suggest that, having found yourself in a hole, you stop digging?

[latintopxxx]

jealous fucking cock dead bitches.......only jolly u get is judging me...at least I'm honest (and basic) enough to know where to find a cost effective piece of ass....and if the bitch doesn't perform toss him out..... not "respect" him...amd to add insult to injury pay the useless...non performing fuck.....

jealous fucking cock dead bitches.......only jolly u get is judging me...at least I'm honest (and basic) enough to know where to find a cost effective piece of ass....and if the bitch doesn't perform toss him out..... not "respect" him...amd to add insult to injury pay the useless...non performing fuck.....

If you were so certain from the beginning, why did you ask the question? Conscience getting to you, amigo?

[latintopxxx]

chao na.....initially wanted an opinion...but PLEASE...some of the opinions offered....to stupid (especilly yours dumbfuck) to contemplate.....

chao na.....initially wanted an opinion...but PLEASE...some of the opinions offered....to stupid (especilly yours dumbfuck) to contemplate.....

Yeah...especilly mine. Moron.

The original response of the "off" becomes more and more understandable.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Offing a boy is like buying a bottle of wine. You spend time making your selection; take it home; uncork it; sniff the aroma; swirl and enjoy the color; sip and savor the flavor; and enjoy! But, if an off bottle, you just dump it. But the price is the same whether good, mediocre or bad. If totally spoiled one might return for a refund but not in Thailand!

Dearest Francois-some of us are like good bottles of wine as well but we are maturing faster than we thought !



what a bunch of loosers...effecting payment even though the promised service was not provided....fearful of offending/slighting rent numbers...if I ran my life this way I wouldn't have 2 cents to rub together....unbelievable

my dear if you have to come on here for advice then your life is obviously off the rails anyway .Please remember..some of us were in the trade once and know of what we speak of !

[Beachlover]

This is all highly subjective. But if you were that unhappy with the boy, I really think you should have tipped him something low, but not insulting. 200-400 would be the bare minimum if the boy really made no effort at all. To bring him back to your room and then give him 50baht is really not the right thing to do... even if he was really bad.

At the end of the day... if you think you did the right thing, then fine. Others may agree to disagree. If you think you made a mistake, it really isn't a big deal. It's one incident. No one should be getting hot and bothered about it for long. I'm sure the boy is well over it by now.

I've had massages where the therapist really wasn't very good and certainly not qualified. Of course I was pissed off... but I pay the required amount and minimise the tip. And I make a note not to go back... and tell others no to go there.

Ignore comments from Chao Na (and anyone else who offers unconstructively negative comments without justifying them) ... he is a board troll with sand in his anus.

Ignore comments from Chao Na (and anyone else who offers unconstructively negative comments without justifying them) ... he is a board troll with sand in his anus.

Hmmm. You call yourself "Beachlover", yet I'm the one with sand in my anus?

[latintopxxx]

chao na get the hint...I'll supply the razors....