Ah, PAD wants 70:30

[Davey612]

For a long while I was at lost as to what do the demonstrators want. I think the following article from the Guardian kind of explains the situation behind the scene. A 70:30 appointment/elected system. It also looks like a North-South conflict.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... 3/thailand (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/thailand)

I think this is an excellent idea for the meantime. It's not so much that PAD doesn't want democracy as the article might imply but that they want to rid the country once and for all of the Thaksin's Sino-Thai political legacy, bringing back the rural voters from the North and North East without it. Possibly the only way to eventual bring the country back into a fair playing field where democracy can indeed function properly.

I think the Royalist cloak is just that, and one that should appeal at least to a broad spectrum of Thais including the rurals, besides being a genuine nod of respect to the Monarchy itself and a way to try and guarantee that the whole thing moves peacefully along, especially with regard to the army.

Im just curious what message Samak received from HRH? Is he acting in defiant and blatant contempt of the King of Thailand by refusing to step down? It's looking like he is. Having tested the waters now with his declaration of a state of emergency and found the army also not on his side. His case is clearly looking like a lost cause.

I think the Guardian's speculation on how the Monarchy feels is incorrect, there was very little love lost between Thaksin and HRH and that would apply equally to any Thaksin supporters out there trying to command power.

[Bob]

Yes, the PAD wackos want 70% of the parliament appointed which demonstrates what they think about democracy. They (well, at least the two head wackos, Chalerm and Sondhi) do not believe that Thais have the intelligence or the right to select their own leaders. Geez, sounds rather familiar, at least to me. So far, I haven't read anything where Chalerm or Sondhi have suggested just who should be the famous appointer.

One might call this a "sufficiency" democracy quite similar to the "sufficiency" economy. The Thai citizens will be afforded just enough of the economic pie and voting rights as the elite deem "sufficient." What a wonderful view of one's fellow citizens.

Just who the hell is bankrolling these wackos (remember: "follow the money")? Sondhi supposedly was officially bankrupt for 2-3 years after the 1997 economic collapse but, by 2003 or so, he supposedly is back with the wealthy elite. How
fortunate, marvelous, and puzzling. He uses the lese majeste theme against Shinawatra and that leads to the coup and, in reward, the generals (or one of their friends) grants Sondhi his own television program on the government channel so he can continue to tilt at his personal windmills. Then he tries to use the same trick against Samak.

Samak is no angel but he won his role as prime minister by the vote of a lot of people who were elected (sure, probably lots of vote buying but that's nothing new at all for the Thai system). Sondhi hasn't been elected dogcatcher but, given he doesn't accept that the Thais have any rights to elect their leaders anyway, he still somehow manages to bring the government to its knees through the support of a very small minority. I guess he's just wearing the right color shirt.

All in all, a very third rate political system caused in large part by the apathy of the Thai people (perhaps aided and abetted by an educational system that teaches nobody to think or to question anything) and the designed plan of the elite.
How sufficient.

The Thai citizens will be afforded just enough of the economic pie and voting rights as the elite deem "sufficient." What a wonderful view of one's fellow citizens.


Thanks Bob (I've always wanted to say that without being facetious) for your American take on this issue. Lacking in finer insight and diplomacy and rather naive that it is, it cuts to the chase in some respects.

However with the wrong conclusion, that's the danger of arrogance stemming from a democracy that is the laughing stock of the free world.

The Thai citizens will be afforded just enough of the voting rights as needed to slowly bring the county back into a state where democracy can flourish without unequal economic expectations that were put in place by Thaksin when he was trying to guarantee himself votes in the rurals.

[Bob]

Samak, for those not conversant with Thai politics/current affairs, is well known as being a devoted monarchist, despite Taksin.

Not sure of your point, Fattman. Every Thai politician claims to be a devoted monarchist! Hey, it helps get you elected!


The Thai citizens will be afforded just enough of the voting rights as needed to slowly bring the county back into a state where democracy can flourish without unequal economic expectations that were put in place by Thaksin when he was trying to guarantee himself votes in the rurals.

Frankly, Master Cedric, sounds to me like you've been listening to the plantation owners too much. How elitist. And just who is it you propose would determine how much "just enough" might be? Democracy surely has its faults and democratic countries can fuck up with the best of them but you either believe in the concept or you don't.

Samak, for those not conversant with Thai politics/current affairs, is well known as being a devoted monarchist, despite Taksin.

Samak after all called for an audience with the King not the other way around. Perhaps the King simply passed the buck to the army who he knows is also in full support of the monarchy and would also ignore him, perhaps the King doesn't trust Samak's loyalty. That wouldn't surprise would it?

I am not sure. Cedric, of your view of Thai democracy.

I don't truly believe Thailand has ever really had democracy, this is the aim of the PAD and it's admirable. They came quite close when they allowed Thaksin to be elected but his legacy was anything but democracy unfortunately. Thaksin himself saw it simply as a mandate to treat the entire country as his personal business enterprise. So we try again.

I find it amusing when Americans call for democracy, when right at this very moment their presidential campaign is being bought in dollars from under their very noses. Perhaps they have a lot to learn from Thailand in trying to get it right and in refusing to adopt the second rate system so plainly evident in America. Winner takes all hey?

Oh dear a benign military Junta? Hmmm if it was always that quite possibly, but if it became anything other than benign who would have the power to address that?

[thrillbill]

Cedric said:"I find it amusing when Americans call for democracy, when right at this very moment their presidential campaign is being bought in dollars from under their very noses. Perhaps they have a lot to learn from Thailand in trying to get it right and in refusing to adopt the second rate system so plainly evident in America. Winner takes all hey?"
_______________________________________
Can you be more specific about the presidential campaign in the United States being bought in dollars under American's noses? Are you referring to a private company's campaign donations to the politicians.... are you suggesting that Americans are PAID bribes to vote a certain way...what are you referring to? For someone that dislikes America (except for his GAP jeans, made in Indonesia by the way) you seem to be such an expert on it.

Cedric said:"I find it amusing when Americans call for democracy, when right at this very moment their presidential campaign is being bought in dollars from under their very noses. Perhaps they have a lot to learn from Thailand in trying to get it right and in refusing to adopt the second rate system so plainly evident in America. Winner takes all hey?"
_______________________________________
Can you be more specific about the presidential campaign in the United States being bought in dollars under American's noses? Are you referring to a private company's campaign donations to the politicians.... are you suggesting that Americans are PAID bribes to vote a certain way...what are you referring to? For someone that dislikes America (except for his GAP jeans, made in Indonesia by the way) you seem to be such an expert on it.Yes, I've already asked Cedric to tell us what is the least worst system we have today (since none are perfect) but he doesn't feel inclined to answer. Much easier merely to criticise (from a place where he doesn't even have a vote)

this is what he really wants. bangkok post.

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core member Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday showed the first signs of a compromise to end the political stand-off following a fatal clash between protesters and the declaration of a state of emergency.

The possibility of a solution came after army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee to enforcing the emergency decree, refused to take tough measures to disperse PAD demonstrators from Government House. He also called for conciliation.


In an exclusive interview with the Bangkok Post Mr Sondhi said he was contemplating a four-point compromise as the political situation appeared at a dead end.


But he stressed that the proposal would be viable only after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej stepped down from office -- the core objective of the PAD's rally.


Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.


Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.


"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.