The War on Sin

Silom Farang has a fantastic post today which should make all of our resident morality-police on this board jump for joy!

http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thail ... ar-on-sin/ (http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thailand/the-war-on-sin/)

[globalwanderer]

much better a war on trolls

The only ones profiting from this war on underage sex are the BIB and their bank accounts. More and more are able to buy their way out of court proceedings and quietly leve the country. Given the greed and corruption that is now rampant I say if they can buy their way out good luck to them.

An interesting concept: SIN. I don't think it's the same as EVIL. It seems, in fact, to be a religious term.

In the "good old days," when Puritans ruled the roost in America, "sin" was bandied about as a cuss-word quite frequently. In fact, one of the nadirs in farang history was reached when all the doctors (!! doctors !!) agreed that "masturbation" was a SIN. And it caused insanity. And it led to sex crime, etc. etc. And every single bit of this "argument" was false.

After that, there came the famous "product conversion." The well-milked sin of "homosexuality/sodomy" was seen to be too religious in origin, so it was turned over to the doctors. The doctors rejoiced at this new field to plough, and began talking of "mental illness" and "psychopathology." Most of all, though, they just collected big fees from their gay patients. The doctors got vacations in the Alps, and the patients got nothing but endless bills.

And now we have arrived at The End Of History! :-) "Everyone" realizes that masturbation is normal, supposedly. But two guys doing it together? That would be "sin." Especially if one of the guys buys the other one a raspberry soda to convince him to get naked and do it.

No, it's an enormous sin...even if the handsome guy ENJOYS showing off his body in front of a male crowd. Even if the handsome guy WANTS a raspberry soda, and WANTS you to watch him.

But is it evil? I don't think so, until I remember that Puritans think that Fun Is Evil.

I don't go out to the bars very often, but next time it's going to be raspberry sodas for the lot! :-) :-)

[Khor tose]

Silom Farang has a fantastic post today which should make all of our resident morality-police on this board jump for joy!

http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thail ... ar-on-sin/ (http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thailand/the-war-on-sin/)

First off the only moralizing I've ever read on Sawadee Gay Thailand has been against child prostitution, which you seem to support. The only mention of prostitution on this board has been to mention that it is illegal in Thailand. I am giving you the benfit of the doubt and suggesting that your crusade against "the morality-police" is because you are afraid that if they crack down on that child prostitution they will crack down on adult prostituion and ruin Thailand for you. Nevertheless, at the best, that makes you an extremely selfish man.

Second, you obviously do not read. If you had gone to the economist acrticle you would have realized that they were talking about an anti-trafficing bill, not anti-prostitution. At one time the bill was confusing the two, but thanks to the DOJ and the ACLU the bill was changed.

It is called the Wiliam Wilberforce trafficking Protection Act and it passed the House 405 to 2. That majority alone should tell you it is not a religious rights bill.

Here is a summery of the Bill, and the second URL is the bill itself. Enjoy

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2 ... EwOGQzMWY= (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2UyZWJjN2E2MTQ3ZDQ3MGFmNTkyMWMyNDEwOGQzMWY=)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp ... ab=summary (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-3887&tab=summary)

Silom Farang has a fantastic post today which should make all of our resident morality-police on this board jump for joy!

http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thail ... ar-on-sin/ (http://gayboythailand.com/bangkok-thailand/the-war-on-sin/)

First off the only moralizing I've ever read on Sawadee Gay Thailand has been against child prostitution, which you seem to support. The only mention of prostitution on this board has been to mention that it is illegal in Thailand. I am giving you the benfit of the doubt and suggesting that your crusade against "the morality-police" is because you are afraid that if they crack down on that child prostitution they will crack down on adult prostituion and ruin Thailand for you. Nevertheless, at the best, that makes you an extremely selfish man.

Second, you obviously do not read. If you had gone to the economist acrticle you would have realized that they were talking about an anti-trafficing bill, not anti-prostitution. At one time the bill was confusing the two, but thanks to the DOJ and the ACLU the bill was changed.

It is called the Wiliam Wilberforce trafficking Protection Act and it passed the House 405 to 2. That majority alone should tell you it is not a religious rights bill.

Here is a summery of the Bill, and the second URL is the bill itself. Enjoy

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2 ... EwOGQzMWY= (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2UyZWJjN2E2MTQ3ZDQ3MGFmNTkyMWMyNDEwOGQzMWY=)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp ... ab=summary (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-3887&tab=summary)

Well, there are a lot of errors in this posting.

First, I do read. And I read the article in The Economist, which mentioned BOTH anti-trafficking and anti-prostitution provisions.

I quote:


Since 2002, the policy of the United States has been to oppose prostitution, and to urge all governments to тАЬreduce the demandтАЭ for prostitutes through education and by punishing those who patronise them. But how far can this principle be pressed? As passed by the House of Representatives last year, a new bill on protecting the victims of trafficking could have made it illegal for Americans to consort with prostitutes anywhere in the world (even when the prostitutes are adults, and in countries where buying sex is legal).

So, khor tose, who can read?

Second, "the only moralizing I've ever read on Sawadee Gay Thailand has been against child prostitution." Umm, we must be reading different forums, khor tose. The most obvious is the contingent opposing prostitution in itself. I can't believe you have not read the thousands of posts about the merits and demerits of paying for sex. The most common one is "I never pay for sex. It is degrading." Left unspoken is the horrible idea that, at some time in the future, this may become a ... what was that term? ... a Viable Option.

In addition to that basic moralizing, there is a lot of other moralizing as well.

I am glad you clarified the law with your references, but you should not criticize people who read the original article for being "unable to read."

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

don't underestimate the power of the NGOs !

Donna Hughes in the Nation Review article makes pretty good sense of the laws as they are-except for one thing. There is no mention of the USA's ( and the UK's) appaling and arrogant attempts to impose it's standards upon other countries-especially in Asia.

It's a new style of colonialism and imperialism-the idea that countries like Vietnam and Thailand authorities cannot pursue their own policing actrivities without a big brother looking over their shoulders.

Reverse the situation and just imagine if Thai police said they wanted to base themselves in Washington or London and oversee aspects of British or US law-they would be laughed out of town.

Interestingly-I read recently of a big bust in Sydney re: sex trafficking of Thai women and from the report it appeared that Thai nationals are allowed to apply for temporary work permits there for 6 months and sex work is not excluded-it's perfectly OK as long as it isn't organised by a criminal gang-something rather difficult to prove.

No doubt-all these FBI agents & Scotland Yard detectives slathering over the desire to pounce on sex tourists are busy typing up their reports on computers made by child slave labour in China or Thaiwan. Perhaps they could start with that problem first. :scratch:

[Khor tose]

Well, there are a lot of errors in this posting.

First, I do read. And I read the article in The Economist, which mentioned BOTH anti-trafficking and anti-prostitution provisions.

I quote:


Since 2002, the policy of the United States has been to oppose prostitution, and to urge all governments to тАЬreduce the demandтАЭ for prostitutes through education and by punishing those who patronise them. But how far can this principle be pressed? As passed by the House of Representatives last year, a new bill on protecting the victims of trafficking could have made it illegal for Americans to consort with prostitutes anywhere in the world (even when the prostitutes are adults, and in countries where buying sex is legal).

So, khor tose, who can read?

Second, "the only moralizing I've ever read on Sawadee Gay Thailand has been against child prostitution." Umm, we must be reading different forums, khor tose. The most obvious is the contingent opposing prostitution in itself. I can't believe you have not read the thousands of posts about the merits and demerits of paying for sex. The most common one is "I never pay for sex. It is degrading." Left unspoken is the horrible idea that, at some time in the future, this may become a ... what was that term? ... a Viable Option.

In addition to that basic moralizing, there is a lot of other moralizing as well.

I am glad you clarified the law with your references, but you should not criticize people who read the original article for being "unable to read."

Henry, the Wilberforce bill is a revision of the bill that was passed in 2002 (thus the 2002 reference). This time they were clear that what they wanted to stop was trafficing. However, the US has passed many anti-prostitution bills, for hundreds of years. We are talking about making it a crime to hire a prostitute in a foreign country. That is the subject Henry. To make it very simple for you, what this bill says that is a crime to use a prostitute that was a victim of trafficking or was forced into prostitution. It is not a US crime otherwise. Please google a summery of the bill. I picked the simplist summery I could find, from a reputable publication, but there are others.

No Henry I have not read thousands of comments against paying for sex. Please give me, oh say, 10 references that are not a drop in drop out troll. Thanks

I am giving you the benfit of the doubt and suggesting that your crusade against "the morality-police" is because you are afraid that if they crack down on that child prostitution they will crack down on adult prostituion and ruin Thailand for you. Nevertheless, at the best, that makes you an extremely selfish man."extremely selfish". I'd have thought it was enlightened self-interest

[Beachlover]

The American Dream - a nightmare for Americans.

As for sin, it's wicked. I've got a couple of boys whipping me towards repentance right now.

hahaha.. that's what american christians would love to have you doing

Henry, the Wilberforce bill is a revision of the bill that was passed in 2002 (thus the 2002 reference). This time they were clear that what they wanted to stop was trafficing. However, the US has passed many anti-prostitution bills, for hundreds of years. We are talking about making it a crime to hire a prostitute in a foreign country. That is the subject Henry. To make it very simple for you, what this bill says that is a crime to use a prostitute that was a victim of trafficking or was forced into prostitution. It is not a US crime otherwise.

First, you accused me of not reading that article in The Economist. You were dead wrong about that, but it obviously did not even cross your mind that an apology was called for.

Now you are demanding that I read those "summeries" of the Wilberforce bill that you posted. Why should I? You haven't even bothered to mention whether this bill is law or not. It passed the House of Representatives, OK. Did it pass the Senate? Did the President sign it?

I wish I could think of a good pun for "winteries."

But I'm glad to know that I can read. Come to think of it, it's rather difficult to write if you can't read!

Henry, it is obvious that Khor Tose is quite mad. Leave it at that. Forget about him!

[Wesley]

Underage guys are wrong in any book, Sex for guys who are a bit over the hill and can afford to pay a legal guy to help with his loneliness is another story entirely!

I think we pretest too much , keep in mind its not just America, In Iran they hang you even as young as 16, in most Muslims countries you could easily loose your head.

Americans are not the only ones with a false sense of right and wrong. We can ignore the extreme Islamicz if we like , but truth be known a chance to bash an American while letting a Iranian hang a 16 year old is a bit two faced in my opinion.

So, do we now bash the Saudis the Taliban the Islamic revolution that encompasses much of the worlds populaton than Christians and their so called NGO's. We can find lots of people to bash and I remember well when we gay people were bashed just for being gay not looking for a cute guy in Thailand. The USA and many others have come a long way while we exclude the cutting off of hands for stealing and hanging of children for being gay in Islamic countries.

If you are going to bash the American Congress and the British then it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

Wes

Underage guys are wrong in any book ...

Try telling that to any muslim reading the Koran.
The Prophet Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

Underage guys are wrong in any book, Sex for guys who are a bit over the hill and can afford to pay a legal guy to help with his loneliness is another story entirely!

If you are going to bash the American Congress and the British then it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

Wes

Wes, I have a friend from the West who has worked in Iran for the last four years. He says that he has had the best gay sex in his life there. Of course, you can't act like a fruity queen in public, but you can have all the sex you want if you are discreet, at least in public. Also, since its all technically illegal, there is no age distinction and the sex of choice there is what you would call underage guys in their teens, all of whom are eager participants and just for the fun of it since money doesn't seem to play a part in their escapades. At least in this regard, they have freedom that the Yanks and Brits couldn't even dream of!

I have this feeling that the locals are going to have a lot of fun with you when you get to the Philippines. You're just the type they like to stick it to. Better stay close to the nunnery with all the other nutty queens if you want to stay safe.

[Geezer]

тАЬThe Prophet Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.тАЭ

I didnтАЩt know that.

At least, if Jesus indulged in juvenile sex he had the perspicacity to keep it out of the papers.

тАЬThe Prophet Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.тАЭ
I didnтАЩt know that.Yes, but you're an American aren't you?

[Wesley]

Underage guys are wrong in any book ...

Try telling that to any muslim reading the Koran.
The Prophet Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

Well, this is a gay forum, I didnтАЩt have my mind on little girls at all, and although I do hear some of the Arabs keep their little boys. there is Nothing I guess official on that issue though I guess. Im going by what I have both seen and heard in countries where I lived.

If we bring girls into it they have been abused since the beginning of time by men and still are, WomanтАЩs suffrage brought woman a long way but we are just now getting to a woman president or vice president although they are as smart and intelligent as men. They work for less pay and kiss their man's feet like a rag doll because those those men with hair on their chest like to feel good about themselves. I still say the issue is about little boys on this board and to bring girls and women into it was just tactical move of no real importance to the main subject matter.

Underage guys are wrong in any book...

Certainly not in Book XII of the Greek Anthology nor in Plato's Symposium, just for starters. But I would hardly expect you to know anything about the origins of Western Civilization not to mention the literature of our own era above and beyond the "Sunday Sensational Press" which seems to be the source of your thinking.

Underage guys are wrong in any book...

Certainly not in Book XII of the Greek Anthology nor in Plato's Symposium, just for starters. But I would hardly expect you to know anything about the origins of Western Civilization not to mention the literature of our own era above and beyond the "Sunday Sensational Press" which seems to be the source of your thinking.

Are you saying that fucking around with underage boys is cool?

... hanging of children for being gay in Islamic countries .... it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

You are, presumably, referring to the two Iranians (Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) who were hung not for being gay, despite claims of this in the more extremist gay press such as Outrage!, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.

Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, amongst others such as the Dutch Interior Ministry who investigated this, specifically said that тАЬIt was not a gay caseтАЭ, as I have already posted at considerable length here with full supporting details and references should you wish to verify this.

"It is only fair" that you check your facts before indulging in your own "bashing".

[Wesley]

I remember the post well about the kid, for some reason I do not see him hanging there as being just reward for anything. I would bet as well that if you go there to play around it in public you would soon loose your head. Probably both of them. Iran has no History of sane thought, when he spoke here he said openly there are no homosexuals there and was laughed at openly. I guess they must hide it really well...LOL

As to the ancient civilizations it seems that after 2000 and more years if we and what can find out about the Egyptians as well that civilization has had this problem from the beginning, the oldest book of all going back 5000 years refers to it. I would hope that in all this time we should have evolved a bit. If in all this time we think fondling a little boy behind a flower pot with a candy bar in hand is okay then IтАЩm sorry I prefer to remain stupid.

It has nothing to do with religion its about the leftist civil rights and human rights organizations that simply believe human trafficking for the purpose of sexual slavery is wrong. In Kyrgyzstan we had the problem and still do. There seems to be no way to eliminate the problem.

I would go so far to say itтАЩs something we grow out of but the research says itтАЩs a disease and one there is currently no cure for. I would bet if we did actually do a poll on a gay forum, not one here in Thailand we should find that pedophilia is wrong in the majority of the gay lifestyle as well. The age of accountability is tricky; since no one really matures at the same rate it seems logical some one should set an age when it is legal. You can call me what you like. Whether in the Philippines or Thailand itтАЩs money that keeps this going. If you think itтАЩs for your good looks they are screwing your fat ass you are wrong. There may be some who see a good heart in a man and love him for that which the call Jadai (I am sure that is spelled wrong for the spelling freaks.) I know the word. I respect it. I have had a Thai Bf and I believe he loved me for whom and what he saw inside me certainly not for what he saw on the out side.

If after 3 or 4 thousand years we have not evolved into a better civilization then we have done so little in such a long time if we believe that playing with kids for a candy bar or money for drugs is right then we have a long way to go. The Golden age of Philosophical thought was required reading for any university and the age of the Roman and Greek society was required as well. If you want to throw Christianity or anything that gets in your way to commit such things with kids as archaic and somehow stupid then believe what you will. I prefer to think itтАЩs a disease as much as HIV and just as incurable.

If you want to refer to other great societies as points where men had out grown their sense of Morality you will find when they out grew their inherent sense of right and wrong that the couture failed. So it will be with us as well. ItтАЩs not about religion and never was for me, itтАЩs about taking advantage of the helpless and hungry and sick and homeless. You can call it what you like itтАЩs still the same sick sickness.

For the thought of being open minded, I will assume you all are right and I am wrong. I will soon be there, and you won't see me putting anyone down for their life style no matter how I feel. That by far is more open and inteligent than I see any of you .

Wesley

..and it gets much worse than that. This is another True Story from my apparently endless supply....

The Place: Isla Visa, the student community for U.C. Santa Barbara. The Time: around 1971. Sitting on the sidewalk with friends, I noticed a really handsome guy. He responded favorably, and so we were back at my apartment very quickly.

Then things began getting strange. At 3 in the afternoon, he wanted a "red" -- that is, a Seconal capsule. He really, really wanted it, and I had a prescription supply so I gave him one. This made him happy enough to disrobe and get into bed, where the drug turned everything into extremely Slow Motion for him. I finally gave up trying -- one of the cutest boys I have ever seen -- but his story turned out to be this:

He had a man-friend in Los Angeles who had introduced him to Seconal -- a highly addictive and dangerous drug if you don't know -- a powerful sleeping pill. Before the boy knew what was happening, he was addicted -- and therefore enslaved by his "Los Angeles friend." The boy's trip up to Isla Vista was a desperate attempt to escape.

To my mind, that is vile beyond words -- the reintroduction of slavery through drug addiction. In a situation like this, it hardly matters whether the boy was 14 or 24 -- he was enslaved by a man whose punishment, I could hope, lay in my hands.

... hanging of children for being gay in Islamic countries .... it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

You are, presumably, referring to the two Iranians (Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) who were hung not for being gay, despite claims of this in the more extremist gay press such as Outrage!, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.

Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, amongst others such as the Dutch Interior Ministry who investigated this, specifically said that тАЬIt was not a gay caseтАЭ, as I have already posted at considerable length here with full supporting details and references should you wish to verify this.

"It is only fair" that you check your facts before indulging in your own "bashing".

Gone Fishing - it doesn't matter how snugly you fit your lips round President Ahmadinejad's dick, he'll still have you executed as a subhuman queer.

... hanging of children for being gay in Islamic countries .... it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

You are, presumably, referring to the two Iranians (Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) who were hung not for being gay, despite claims of this in the more extremist gay press such as Outrage!, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.

Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, amongst others such as the Dutch Interior Ministry who investigated this, specifically said that тАЬIt was not a gay caseтАЭ, as I have already posted at considerable length here with full supporting details and references should you wish to verify this.

"It is only fair" that you check your facts before indulging in your own "bashing".

Gone Fishing - it doesn't matter how snugly you fit your lips round President Ahmadinejad's dick, he'll still have you executed as a subhuman queer.

... that two of the Board's more self-obsessed - Gone Fishing and Henry Cate - are so keen on Axis of Evil member Islam?

[Wesley]

... hanging of children for being gay in Islamic countries .... it is only fair you include the Islamic fundamentalist in the gay bashing going on here on a gay forum

You are, presumably, referring to the two Iranians (Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) who were hung not for being gay, despite claims of this in the more extremist gay press such as Outrage!, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.

Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, amongst others such as the Dutch Interior Ministry who investigated this, specifically said that тАЬIt was not a gay caseтАЭ, as I have already posted at considerable length here with full supporting details and references should you wish to verify this.

"It is only fair" that you check your facts before indulging in your own "bashing".

there wsa no better anwer to that than your statement, guess that settled that part of the issue anyway. The other I suspect, if Smiles is right is just beatign a dead horse.

Wes

Gone Fishing - it doesn't matter how snugly you fit your lips round President Ahmadinejad's dick, he'll still have you executed as a subhuman queer.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Then things began getting strange. At 3 in the afternoon, he wanted a "red" -- that is, a Seconal capsule. He really, really wanted it, and I had a prescription supply so I gave him one.

Good lord Henry, your in your 20's and some doctor gave you a prescription for Secobarbital. The drug that did in Judy Garland, Jimi Hendrix, Marilyn Monroe et al.

Who was your doctor Dr. Timothy Leary?

Good lord Henry, your in your 20's and some doctor gave you a prescription for Secobarbital. The drug that did in Judy Garland, Jimi Hendrix, Marilyn Monroe et al. One can only hope