(Another!) question about the 12-month Retirement Visa ...

[Smiles]

Just received my 12-mth 'Long-stay' multiple-entry (retirement) visa the other day. Happy to have it in my hot little hands, but would like some definitive (if that's possible on this argumentative Board) answers to 2 questions. I have read some differing opinions on these issues lately, so still am a little confused as to what is actually the case.

When I received my visa (stuck happliy into my passport) I read that it states: Date of Issue: 13 Aug. 2008.
OK, that's quite clear, but the question is this . . . does my clock start clicking (i.e. counting off the 365 days it's valid for) on that Date of Issue, or, on the date I land in Thailand (which will be 15 Sept '08).
[/*:m:2m59gfx0]
I ~ as most people ~ have more 'issues' in my life than simply coming to Thailand every year long term. One of those 'issues' is that both my parents are very old and suffering from a serious dementia which is taking them inexorably down hill. They are comfortable in their life (if "comfortable" is the correct word in their circumstance), but obviously I have to be back here in Canada for a certain period every year just to make sure they are OK. I have decided to come back to Canada (for the foreseeable future) each year from May thru August.
The question is this . . . when I leave in May/09, does my visa 'clock' stop ticking, then pick up again when I arrive back in Thailand 4 months later? Or, does it keep on ticking, and the 4 months I am here in Canada simply counted as if I were in Thailand?[/*:m:2m59gfx0]

Cheers ...

[TOQ]

As for question #1 if you received your Retirement Visa while in Canada the chances are very good it is valid from date of issue . If you had gotten the visa in Thailand it would be valid from date of entry into the Kingdom.

As for question #2 Your visa runs for the entire year. Leaving the country has no effect on the dates. Please make sure to get a ReEntry visa if you leave Thailand within the year. If not, when you return Immigration will stamp your Retirement Visa and it will be voided. You end up with a 30 Entry Permit..


john

[Smiles]

" ... As for question #1 if you received your Retirement Visa while in Canada the chances are very good it is valid from date of issue . If you had gotten the visa in Thailand it would be valid from date of entry into the Kingdom ... "
Understand you mean well, but this in fact is the problem with getting replies such as this .... including the phrase "chances are very good" in your answer only means you don't really know for sure. So that is no help.
I'd like to hear from folks who are already in possession of a 12-month retirement visa and can tell me point blank that it is either 'date of issue' or 'date of arrival in Thailand'.

Cheers ...

The question is this . . . when I leave in May/09, does my visa 'clock' stop ticking, then pick up again when I arrive back in Thailand 4 months later? Or, does it keep on ticking, and the 4 months I am here in Canada simply counted as if I were in Thailand?[/list]

Cheers ...

Smiles, I'm quite sure that your new O-A will start on the date you arrive in Thailand and then expire one-year from then during which year you may re-enter Thailand all you wish. They don't count the days outside Thailand FOR you in this case, as they would count the days in Thailand AGAINST you if you were in a 'no more than 90 days of 180 days' multiple 30-day no-visa entry situation.

I suppose that you could just 'renew' your Thai retirement visa in your home country should you still not be in a position yet for permanent retirement here, as you seem to be with having to devote so much time to your parents and could easily be outside when the renewal time comes. Maybe some others here can elaborate on this subject?

[bao-bao]

From all that's appeared on the board in other threads about retirement, 30-day and all other flavors of visas it seems as though the "official" answer to most questions varies from day to day, office to office and even person to person within an office.

Having not been fortunate enough (so far) to have been in LOS more than 28 days in a visit I've had no direct experience with any of this, but I'll offer what you probably have already thought of yourself, just in case: if it were me I'd call the Thai consulate in Vancouver and another Canadian office or three and see if I could get a consensus, and I'd also probably call a couple of offices in Bangkok as well. Even that's probably not air-tight, but I guess I'd feel some better about it.

Good luck with this, and safe journey in a few weeks! I still have 99 more days to wait until I'm Thailand-bound again.

I have seen this discussed on other forums but can you tell me why do they call it an O.C.V.

Whatever visa you get, the life of the visa is the life of the visa, so a 60- or 60- or 365-day visa is just that - it only lasts the length of time from when it was first activated. I left Bangkok on a visa run yesterday and there are very large signs at the airport (on the way out - go figure!) that state "Attention foreigners! Your visa period starts from the date you enter Thailand not the date your visa is issued in your own country" (or words to that effect). As someone else says, if you leave during the validity of the permit without a re-entry permit (or a multiple-entry visa) then your visa terminates, no matter how much longer it has before it expires. I do have a couple of friends on retirement visas who only spend 6 months or so in Thailand during the 12-month priod, and they make sure their's is a multiple-entry retirement visa or they get a re-entry permit before they leave Thailand, and just renew their visa once they come back

Whatever visa you get, the life of the visa is the life of the visa, so a 60- or 60- or 365-day visa is just that - it only lasts the length of time from when it was first activated. I left Bangkok on a visa run yesterday and there are very large signs at the airport (on the way out - go figure!) that state "Attention foreigners! Your visa period starts from the date you enter Thailand not the date your visa is issued in your own country" (or words to that effect). As someone else says, if you leave during the validity of the permit without a re-entry permit (or a multiple-entry visa) then your visa terminates, no matter how much longer it has before it expires. I do have a couple of friends on retirement visas who only spend 6 months or so in Thailand during the 12-month priod, and they make sure their's is a multiple-entry retirement visa or they get a re-entry permit before they leave Thailand, and just renew their visa once they come back

But do remember your visa must be utilised within 3 months of its issue and can be withrawn by immigration at their whim.

Is this gonna end someday??

Smiles, only you could drag me out of retirement. I've been lurking and posting under my new board name since I hit post # 1,000 as bkk gwm. Hey, that officially makes me a hydra now! :cheers:

I am assuming you have a "Non-Immigrant O-A visa," which is only obtainable in one's home country. This is a unique visa, different from what most farang use. It is not the same as a Non-Immigrant O visa, or a one-year extension.

Your visa is valid for entry to Thailand for one year from the date of issue. Since the date of issue was 13 Aug 2008, you can enter Thailand any time up to 12 Aug 2009 on that visa. Conversely, you cannot enter Thailand on 13 Aug 2009 or later on that visa (more on that later).

Upon each entry to Thailand, you will be stamped with a 12-month "permitted to stay" period (unlike the 90-day period on most other visas).

NOTE: Because the O-A visa is unique, it can be confusing to even airport Immigrations officers at times, so ALWAYS check the permitted-to-stay date they stamp in your passport, before leaving the Immigrations kiosk at the airport! Yeah, it can be corrected later, but save yourself the hassle, take a moment to verify the date at the airport.

If it were a single-entry visa, then what TOQ says would apply: you'd need to get a re-entry permit in Thailand before returning to Canada to keep your "permission to stay" alive. With a single-entry visa, if you depart Thailand after using that single entry, the visa is "all used up" and you cannot enter on that visa again. A re-entry permit lets you come and go until the permission-to-stay date has passed.

Because it's a multiple-entry visa, you can come and go as many times as you like until the expiration date of the visa (12 Aug 2009) without a re-entry permit. Each time you enter Thailand you will be stamped with a new 12-month permission-to-stay stamp from the each date of entry.

examples:

You enter Thailand 15 Sept 2008, you will receive a stamp with a permission to stay until 14 Sept 2009.
You go home to Canada, and return to Thailand 29 Dec 2008, you will receive a permission to stay until 28 Dec 2009.
You go home to Canada, and return to Thailand 15 Mar 2008, you will receive a permission to stay until 14 Mar 2009.
(get the picture?)

The "trick" with a multiple-entry O-A visa is that you can extend it to last (almost) two years:

Your visa was issued 13 Aug 2008, and expires 12 Aug 2009. Normally that means you'd need to get a new visa if you wanted to enter Thailand on/after 13 Aug 2009.

HOWEVER, with your multiple-entry O-A visa, if you were to depart and re-enter Thailand on 12 Aug 2009, you will be stamped with a 12-month permission-to-stay until 11 Aug 2010 -- just short of two years from date of issue (13 Aug 2008.)

HOWEVER, if you did that and departed Thailand and re-entered on/after 13 Aug 2009, you have no valid visa for entry to Thailand (it expired, remember?). You had a stamp that permitted you to stay until 11 Aug 2010, but that stay is over when you depart Thailand.

HOWEVER, if you obtained a multiple re-entry permit in Thailand before departing Thailand, you would keep the 11 Aug 2010 permission-to-stay date alive and could continue to come and go until 11 Aug 2010 (on a visa issued 13 Aug 2008.)

As you might think, it's not wise to wait until the very last date, 12 Aug 2009, to do a border run "just in case" something goes astray. The idea is to do a border run (or a return from Canada) as late as possible before the visa's expiry date with a small cushion of time for comfort.

Clear as mud, huh? Just remember that a visa or re-entry permit only controls whether you can enter Thailand or not.

An expired visa on its own will not permit entry to the kingdom. An expired visa with a re-entry permit will permit entry, up until the expiration of the re-entry permit. The expiration date of the re-entry permit, is the permitted-to-stay date active in your passport the date the re-entry permit is issued.

The permission-to-stay stamp determines how long you can stay -- you must leave by that date.

A question that lurkers (the few of you still reading...) might have: why then, wouldn't everybody get an O-A visa in their home country rather than the "traditional" route of getting a "regular" Non-Immigrant O visa and then extending in Thailand? In addition to the benefit of the two-year period obtainable, another benefit of the O-A is that your money can stay in your home country -- no need transfer funds to Thailand. However, you must pass a medical exam and criminal check for an O-A (but not for an extension obtained within Thailand), which take time and money, and in some cases might turn up something that would prevent issuance of the O-A visa...

Whatever visa you get, the life of the visa is the life of the visa, so a 60- or 60- or 365-day visa is just that - it only lasts the length of time from when it was first activated. I left Bangkok on a visa run yesterday and there are very large signs at the airport (on the way out - go figure!) that state "Attention foreigners! Your visa period starts from the date you enter Thailand not the date your visa is issued in your own country" (or words to that effect). As someone else says, if you leave during the validity of the permit without a re-entry permit (or a multiple-entry visa) then your visa terminates, no matter how much longer it has before it expires. I do have a couple of friends on retirement visas who only spend 6 months or so in Thailand during the 12-month priod, and they make sure their's is a multiple-entry retirement visa or they get a re-entry permit before they leave Thailand, and just renew their visa once they come back
The signs at the airport should say "Attention foreigners! Your permission-to-stay period starts from the date you enter Thailand not the date your visa is issued in your own country"

I know you qualified your statement with "(or words to that effect)," but I am being anal here, trying to clear up any confusion that may happen as people read through this thread.

Also, continuing in my schoolmarm mode and demanding precision, your first sentence could be better stated:

"With a single-entry visa, the permission to stay period is the permission to stay afforded by the visa, so a 60- or 365-day visa is just that -- it only lasts the length of time from when it was activated by entering Thailand. With a multiple-entry visa, you get the permission to stay period anew each time you enter Thailand (before the expiration of the visa, of course, and the expiration date for the visa is calculated from the date of issue)."

My concern is that use of the phrase "life of the visa" can mean two different things: [a] the valid period in which the visa can be used to enter Thailand, or [b] the period of time one is permitted to stay in Thailand after entry.

But do remember your visa must be utilised within 3 months of its issue and can be withrawn by immigration at their whim.
Keeping in mind that anything can be done at any time on a whim of an Immigrations officer, the Non Immigrant O-A visa is valid for 12 months, and not 90 days. So, unless a whimsy Immigrations officer comes along, an O-A visa can be utilised for 12 months. Most other types of visas indeed have only a 90-day period from date of issue for utilisation.

Keeping in mind that anything can be done at any time on a whim of an Immigrations officerThis is pretty much true of most countries - a visa only entitles you to travel to the country, where the Immigration Officer reviews your circumstances at the time/date of arrival and at that point determines whether to allow you entry to the country, and under what circumstances. No, you don't have to believe me - just go and look it up somewhere before you burst into print and display your ignorance

A friend told me that when I changed my three month visa to a one year retirement visa, this new visa would still start from my date of entry into Thailand but in fact my one year visa started on the expiration of my ninety day visa

[
HOWEVER, if you obtained a multiple re-entry permit in Thailand before departing Thailand, you would keep the 11 Aug 2010 permission-to-stay date alive and could continue to come and go until 11 Aug 2010 (on a visa issued 13 Aug 2008.).

So Smile's Sawatdee posting history does NOT show up in the extensive background check run by the Thai immigration authorities (against all the passport numbers and internet access records kept by the police in Thailand) and he obtains his O-A visa as such and re-entry permits and has permission to stay and re-enter until 11 Aug 2010. Then what? He MUST apply for the extension to O before 11 Aug 2010?

bkk gwm is correct (although wading through the comments might be somewhat confusing). I will attempt to clarify, hopefully without also being confusing. First, you need to understand there is a distinction between a "visa" and a "permitted to stay stamp."

As mentioned by others, the visa is permission to enter the country. A single entry visa must be used before its expiration date, e.g., if you have a 60 day tourist visa, it usually has an expiration date of 90 days from date of issue - If you arrive in Thailand a few days after its issued date or on the day before it expires, you will get a permission to stay of 60 days; if your visa is a Non-Immigrant O-A, the expiration date should be one year from the date of issue - thus whether you arrive a few days after issuance or the day before it expires, the permission to stay will be 365 days.

A multiple entry visa differs in that it allows you to leave and re-enter Thailand as many times as you wish so long as the "visa" has not expired, e.g., your O-A multiple entry visa will allow you to enter and reenter Thailand anytime between August 13, 2008 and August 12, 2009 - each time during this period that you reenter Thailand, you will receive a permission to stay for another 365 days.

Re-entry permits may be single or multiple entry. The Permit will have the date of issue and it will expire on the date shown as your permission to stay date. The single reentry stamp fee is 1,000 Baht; the multiple reentry stamp fee is 3,800 Baht -- so, it is generally less costly to use single reentry stamps if you do not plan more than 3 departures and reentries up to the permit's expiration date. If you have no need to be cost conscious and plan only 2 reentries, going ahead and getting a multiple saves another trip to Immigration as well as pages in your passport.

If you have a single entry visa, it will be stamped USED upon arrival and you will have a permission to stay until (date). If you plan to leave and reenter Thailand before the permission to stay is reached, you will need a re-entry permit - upon reentry, you will receive another permission to stay until the expiration date of the re-entry permit. When reentering, use the Reentry Permit number as your visa number on the entry/departure card (T.M. 6), not your original visa number -- I know, I got chewed out by a Thai Immigration lady for not doing so the first time I re-entered Thailand using a reentry permit.

If you have a multiple entry visa it will not be stamped USED upon arrival in Thailand (might be if you arrive a day or two before it expires). You will not need a reentry permit so long as you plan to reenter Thailand before the expiration date of the VISA. If you plan to reenter AFTER the expiration date of the VISA, then you will need a re-entry stamp (which will expire on the date shown as your permission to stay until).


Smiles - in answer to your 2nd question, when you arrive on September 15, 2008, you will get a permission to stay until September 14, 2009. When you return to Canada in May, if you plan to return before August 12, 2009 (expiration date of your VISA), you will not need a reentry permit. Also, you will get another permission to stay of 365 days from your arrival. If you plan to return after your visa expiration date, but before September 14, 2009 (permission to stay date), you will need a reentry permit. However, arriving just before your "permission to stay" date is not necessarily a good idea as you must apply to extend your permission to stay based on "retirement" before that date.

Arrival after the expiration date of the visa or the re-entry permit, will get you a 30 day on arrival stamp (unless you obtain another visa before returning, e.g., apply for and receive another O-A Non-Immigrant visa or get a Tourist or regular Non-Immigrant visa).

A friend told me that when I changed my three month visa to a one year retirement visa, this new visa would still start from my date of entry into Thailand but in fact my one year visa started on the expiration of my ninety day visa

I am going to use the term "extension for purposes of retirement" in lieu of "renewing a retirement visa," which is an oft used term for applying for another year.

My initial visa was a Non-Immigrant "O" multiple entry visa, which permitted me a 90 day stay. I made two departure/returns during the first 6 months - getting a 90 stay upon each return. About one-week after my second return, I applied for an extension of one year based on retirement. I was granted 365 days from the date I last entered Thailand.

However, it is my understanding from several recent sources that if one converts a 30 day on arrival or tourist visa to a Non-Immigrant visa at Pattaya Immigration (based on meeting the qualifications for an extension based on retirement), then applies for the 365 day extension, Pattaya Immigration is allowing a permitted stay of 365 days from the expiration date of the newly acquired Non-Immigrant Visa.

bkk gwm is correct (although wading through the comments might be somewhat confusing). I will attempt to clarify, hopefully without also being confusing.
Well, you were *shorter* if not *less confusing*! (Just kidding, as there is NO way to explain the basics and nuances without being confusing to SOMEone, especially in post on a forum where there is no feedback on comprehension.)

It's always a trade off of using common-usage language (retirement visa) vs more technically correct language (extension of temporary stay in the kingdom for purposes of retirement). I think "exipration" date is the former, and "enter by" date is the latter, but expiration date just rolls off the tongue easier. Using 100% technical terms is not effective when the audience does not know all the terms, but OTOH using (sometimes misleading) common-usage terms is equally counterproductive. What's a girl to do???

Just kidding, as there is NO way to explain the basics and nuances without being confusing to SOMEone

What is the situation for Smiles when it expires? Can he renew in Thailand, and if so would it then become the same as one issuewd in Thailand, needing a re-renty permit?

Long read but very informative thread. Bookmark it for future reference!

What is the situation for Smiles when it expires? Can he renew in Thailand, and if so would it then become the same as one issuewd in Thailand, needing a re-renty permit?
He has two main options (there are other options, but I'm trying to keep this simple):

[1] Go back to Canada to get another Non-Immigrant OA visa (if they will grant one ... reports are that some embassies/consulates only issue one per lifetime and expect you to thereafter do annual extensions in Thailand)

[2] During the last 21 days of his permission to stay, he can apply at an Immigrations office in Thailand for a one-year extension for retirement. To do this, he needs to demonstrate the financial obligations are met in Thailand (B800k savings, B65k/mo income, or combination of the two). This is the usual way resident retirees stay in Thailand, each year getting a new extension. And, yes, he will need a re-entry permit unless he plans to not leave Thailand the entire one-year period.

Long read but very informative thread. Bookmark it for future reference!

I'll SAY! One reason I come here for my information which has been very helpful to me in planning my early retirement. One has to constantly keep up with all the changes. THX to the posters both in this thread on this subject and other particular subjects too.

I came to Thailand after my father's death in 2003, and got a normal visa-on-arrival. When that expired, I went to Laos and got a Non-Immigrant Type B Single-Entry Visa. It was issued on the 9th of the month and I returned on the 10th. I then went to Immigration, told them I was retired, and began renewing the visa on a yearly basis. The original visa "expired" long ago, and I have NO OTHER VISAS for Thailand. There is one "re-entry stamp" for a day trip into Tachilik, Burma, but basically my life with Immigration has consisted of the following for the past five years. Every 90 days, I bring by a statement of residence (no cost except the hassle). Every year, I have to go through the proof-of-income waltz, and then Immigration makes a note in my passport stating that I can stay for another year.

When I was working as an English teacher in Chiang Mai, it was the same basic drill. You had to get a Non-Immigrant visa in your passport, and then it would be renewed by immigration with stamped notices and written dates.

To my mind, the "retirement visa" as a category does not seem to exist. You ask for a Non-Immigrant Visa and then tell Immigration that you're retiring.

But really, Smiles, go and talk with the people in Immigration. Bring along your Thai friend. It was my experience that the Immigration folks were happy to deal with retirees (who were bringing money into the country) versus English teachers (who were always suspected of "stealing Thai jobs"). Whatever...I got a LOT more hassle as a teacher than as a retiree. It should be smooth sailing.

The one "gotcha" to pay attention to is that "re-entry" thing. If you leave without you, then your non-immigrant visa will die a horrible death and you'll have to start all over again.

Remember the 90-day reporting as well. Put it in some appointment software that won't let you forget.

I don't think you are disagreeing.


The original visa "expired" long ago, and I have NO OTHER VISAS for Thailand. .

But, as was described above you have been extending your permission to stay year on year.



To my mind, the "retirement visa" as a category does not seem to exist. .

True if you obtain the visa in Thailand, not true if you obtain the visa outside Thailand



And just as a side point, Pattaya/Jomtien immigration will allow you to extend/renew retirement visa (that's me using the wrong terminology!) up to 3 months before the old one expires without asking any questions.

[Smiles]

Thanks all for the non-highjacked thread! A rarity here on Sawatdee.

I'm going to re-read all these replies again (and more than once for sure). Rest assured I have not forgotten Thai Immigration in Hua Hin, which is a place where english is spoken and friendliness abounds, and where I will be headed just after arriving in my Thai home to get their answers to my main questions.
I posted here to get the thoughts of other long-termers to be used in conjunction with advice from Thai Imm, not in place of it.

Thanks again & cheers ...

Am I right in assuming that, if I'm 50+ I can get a retirement visa and keep renewing it every year provided I keep B880K in a Thai bank account and live off other funds? If I have a multiple entry visa and go ttavelling outside Thailand every 90 days I won't have to do the 90-day reporting?

Thanks in advance.

[quiet1]

Am I right in assuming that, if I'm 50+ I can get a retirement visa and keep renewing it every year provided I keep B880K in a Thai bank account and live off other funds? If I have a multiple entry visa and go ttavelling outside Thailand every 90 days I won't have to do the 90-day reporting?

Thanks in advance.
You do not need to keep the B800k (I assume your B880k was a typo) untouched. You can draw it down by using it throughout the year, as long as you top it off back to B800k before the next extension. Your last sentence is correct: Your 90-day count starts anew as day #1 when you re-enter the kingdom. You only need to do a 90-day address report if you stay in Thailand 90+ consecutive days.

Thanks - I did mean 800 not 880. However I'd keep it intact as a "rainy day" fund and live off other monies. What happens if I don't do the 90-day report and subsequently leave the country or/and go for a renewal after one year?

Pattaya has the same requirement, unless you are using a pension as part of the required funds in which case there is no such time requirement.