US Bank, fee for ATM

I have a friend who is trying to find an American bank which does not charge ATM fees when his bank card is used in Thailand. A while back I read, I think on this forum, a post about this but can not locate using Search. Can someone answer this question or point to the old post? Thanks!

I have a friend who is trying to find an American bank which does not charge ATM fees when his bank card is used in Thailand. A while back I read, I think on this forum, a post about this but can not locate using Search. Can someone answer this question or point to the old post? Thanks!Chase Bank issue a Mastercard for Continental Airlines Presidents Club (hefty annual fee) that does not charge additional fees for overseas transactions

Best deal: Capital One online Money market account comes with a plain ATM card (not a debit) which does not charge ATM transaction fees, and also no foreign currency conversion fee. Works with all ATMs which are on a PLUS network (almost all of them in Thailand). I use it all the time with no problems when in Thailand, and so does my BS for his monthly allowance when i am not there...:) If you open your new account through Costco.com (if a member), it will also come with a better interest rate. I also use Capital One VISA card because of no currency conversion fee - other banks add at least 3%...
Good luck!

The best deals on ATM and other bank fees in America are through credit unions. Some times there are job or employer requirements to join a credit union, but if you can open an account with one of your local credit unions go for it. My credit union charges nothing for ATM usage anywhere in the world and gives the actual rate of exchange. I use the California Credit Union. Banks hate credit unions; they simply can not compete with them.

My credit union visa card charges a 1% conversion fee (I understand this is a Visa fee rather than one charged by my credit union).

I use INGDirect - an internet bank -- for using my debit card there are no fees for ATM or conversion charges.

I also have an ETrade account - internet bank - pays interest on account and does not charge a conversion fee - so long as you maintain a minimum $1,000 US on deposit - no ATM fee.

Good info, does anyone know of a UK bank that does the same?

[allieb]

Tell your friend to bring all his needs in cash and deposit it straigt away in his Thai boy special's account. Then use the boy's local ATM card if he's still around.

Seriously bring cash and you will get a better exchange rate. You can open a visitors account at the Bangkok bank in a matter of minutes and get a Bangkok bank ATM card. It also works abroad if you ever want to clear out your account

If your friend is near San Francisco, have him check out First Republic Bank. They never charge ATM fees anywhere in the world, and if another bank charges you to use their ATM, First Republic rebates those fees back to your account.

I use their ATM card in Thailand regularly.

The best bank deal I know of.

The Nationwide (flexiaccount?) ATM gives free withdrawals both domestically and overseas. Not sure if they pay interest.

They do, 4 per cent.


George.

[mahjongguy]

Bank of America (Wireless Road) and Citibank (Sathorn Road) both provide ATMs that are wired directly back to the U.S. and so do not incur fees. However, that does not necessarily present a great deal. The exchange rates that they use are weighted in their favor. I've compared Citibank's "no fee" ATM to using a Wells Fargo card at a random bank's ATM (Siam Commercial Bank) on the street. Despite paying a $2 fee for using a non-Wells ATM I still got more baht for the buck with Wells. The point is: unless you are very diligent about examining the rate you get, you don't really know how well you've done.

Essentially, there's no such thing as free currency exchange. Somebody pays at least 1% and usually more. You pay a fee and/or receive a crappy rate. Or, your bank/credit union eats the loss.

For comparison, you should always use a Thai bank's published rates of the hour. The "offshore" rate viewed on Internet currency sites is not relevant.

Today's happy note: USD/THB 34.00 (K-bank Telex rate)

[mahjongguy]

From everything I've heard, the UK's Nationwide bank is a great deal for the British here. It's a bit harder for Americans to find anything quite that good; a few banks with no fees but usually crappy rates.

For a tourist who might run through a coupla thousand bucks while he's here, it might be a difference of $10 or $20, so don't sweat it. Do whatever's convenient.

For those of us who live here and burn through $20,000 to $60,000 or more each year, it's worth paying attention to the details. Since I can't get as good a deal as Nationwide's ATM, and because I think it's prudent to keep a goodly amount of money right here in Thailand, I bring money over in chunks, and fees aren't nearly as important as the rate.

Note: INGdirect may be okay for ATM users but they don't do international wire transfers. :(

I'm sure you are right overall, but the British Nationwide bank mentioned above, also give one of the best exchange rates of any UK bank, so its as good a deal as it gets for Brits at least.

You are spot on with that info above fattman.


George.

Bank of America (Wireless Road) and Citibank (Sathorn Road) both provide ATMs that are wired directly back to the U.S. and so do not incur fees. However, that does not necessarily present a great deal. The exchange rates that they use are weighted in their favor. I've compared Citibank's "no fee" ATM to using a Wells Fargo card at a random bank's ATM (Siam Commercial Bank) on the street. Despite paying a $2 fee for using a non-Wells ATM I still got more baht for the buck with Wells. The point is: unless you are very diligent about examining the rate you get, you don't really know how well you've done.

Essentially, there's no such thing as free currency exchange. Somebody pays at least 1% and usually more. You pay a fee and/or receive a crappy rate. Or, your bank/credit union eats the loss.

For comparison, you should always use a Thai bank's published rates of the hour. The "offshore" rate viewed on Internet currency sites is not relevant.

Today's happy note: USD/THB 34.00 (K-bank Telex rate)

Your information about a USA Citibank account for use overseas is outdated. As of 1 January 2008 Citibank USA charges a 3% foreign transaction fee even for using a Citibank machine anywhere outside the USA. And this on top of their crummy conversion rate. They are desperate for money since they got their tit caught in the wringer last year with the financial meltdown. There is even a rumor afloat that they may be THE BIG bank that is about to go under that a former chief economist for the IMF just spoke about in Singapore this past week.

[mahjongguy]

Your information about a USA Citibank account for use overseas is outdated. As of 1 January 2008 Citibank USA charges a 3% foreign transaction fee even for using a Citibank machine anywhere outside the USA. And this on top of their crummy conversion rate. They are desperate for money since they got their tit caught in the wringer last year with the financial meltdown. There is even a rumor afloat that they may be THE BIG bank that is about to go under that a former chief economist for the IMF just spoke about in Singapore this past week.

Ok. Didn't know about Citibank's rule change. I actually have a poor opinion of Citi and have no account with them. The comparison test was done using a friend's account.

I have read, though, that the BIG BANK in question is more likely to be Merrill Lynch. We'll see.

From everything I've heard, the UK's Nationwide bank is a great deal for the British here. It's a bit harder for Americans to find anything quite that good; a few banks with no fees but usually crappy rates.

For a tourist who might run through a coupla thousand bucks while he's here, it might be a difference of $10 or $20, so don't sweat it. Do whatever's convenient.

For those of us who live here and burn through $20,000 to $60,000 or more each year, it's worth paying attention to the details. Since I can't get as good a deal as Nationwide's ATM, and because I think it's prudent to keep a goodly amount of money right here in Thailand, I bring money over in chunks, and fees aren't nearly as important as the rate.

Note: INGdirect may be okay for ATM users but they don't do international wire transfers. :(

I use INGdirect's Electric Orange checking account. I send an "electronic check" (no fee) to the bank routing number (ACH system) of Bangkok Bank's New York Branch and the account number for my Bangkok Bank Pattaya Branch account -- the funds arrive within 3 business days in US dollars. Bangkok Bank in Thailand converts the dollars to Baht at the time they deposit the funds to my account. They have a fee of 1/2 percent, but there is a minimum (100 or 150 Baht) and maximum fee (300 Baht).

[francois]

I have a friend who is trying to find an American bank which does not charge ATM fees when his bank card is used in Thailand. A while back I read, I think on this forum, a post about this but can not locate using Search. Can someone answer this question or point to the old post? Thanks!

Like others reported herein, credit unions are one of the best ATM cards. My CU has no fees for withdrawls from out of the country (may be necessary to maintain a balance in account even if a loan balance) and also no conversion fees. Also have another bank with no fees of any kind. PM me if you wish the name of this bank.

Francois

Ok. Didn't know about Citibank's rule change. I actually have a poor opinion of Citi and have no account with them. The comparison test was done using a friend's account.

I have read, though, that the BIG BANK in question is more likely to be Merrill Lynch. We'll see.

Merrill Lynch is an investment bank and they are quite shaky as well. Citibank and Washington Mutual seemed to be the big banks on everyone's mind, but as you said, we'll see.

I too have come to loath Citibank. Their customer service is a joke not only for bank account holders but also for the credit card companies they own which include their own Citibank cards, Diners Club and A.T.&T. credit cards. They have taken to fleecing their customers for every cent they can and at every turn.

I am far more happy with my relationship with HSBC which does not charge for ATM withdrawals at their own machines worldwide and they have excellent customer service departments. But it seems I don't get the best possible conversion rate but I haven't done a precise study of HSBC on that count.

Not being fleeced by my own bank to get at my own money is my primary concern. It's a minefield, of that there can be no doubt.

I am going to look into this Capital One account that someone has suggested earlier in this thread. This isn't the first time I have heard their name come up in this regard.

I find the best way to avoid foreign transaction fees and bad exchange rates are to either bring in cash or large denominational traveller's checks. I then deposit the money into my local Thai bank account and use their ATM card for needed withdrawals. In emergencies, if more cash is needed, I have my bank at home wire money directly to my Thai bank.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I use INGdirect's Electric Orange checking account. I send an "electronic check" (no fee) to the bank routing number (ACH system) of Bangkok Bank's New York Branch and the account number for my Bangkok Bank Pattaya Branch account -- the funds arrive within 3 business days in US dollars. Bangkok Bank in Thailand converts the dollars to Baht at the time they deposit the funds to my account. They have a fee of 1/2 percent, but there is a minimum (100 or 150 Baht) and maximum fee (300 Baht).

There a lot of confusion on this thread between US banks and UK banks. Some are posing with out reference to what country your doing your banking. Banks in USA are regulated by State laws/regs as well as federal. Even local governments get in on the act. San Fransisco once passed a local city ordnance prohibiting banks from charging ATM fees.

I think it was Homi who first posted the ACH for the NY Bangkok Branch in USA and I have been using it ever since. For me it's more like 4 or even 5 business days to show up in the Bangkok account, but I see the funds debited on the day I send the transfer. My bank does not charge any fees for ACH transfers as most don't in USA.

See, one out of say 100 post from Homi are useful.

In emergencies, if more cash is needed, I have my bank at home wire money directly to my Thai bank.
How do you do that when you are in Thailand, as you usually have to sign?

In emergencies, if more cash is needed, I have my bank at home wire money directly to my Thai bank.
How do you do that when you are in Thailand, as you usually have to sign?

Well, you need to have a U.S. bank account, and a Thai bank account. My own account is with the much-maligned Citibank, which at least does me the favor of keeping the accounts open while I am not in the U.S.

It is true: they began imposing a dastardly 3% fee some months ago -- for ATM withdrawals, and foreign use of the ATM/Master Card.

Now comes the math: if you have a U.S. income of $2,000 per month, and withdraw it via the ATM machine, you will pay about $60 for doing that.

BUT, if you go to the Citibank website, and initiate a wire-transfer there, the cost of the transfer is $30 (flat rate).

I always do the wire transfer, whenever possible. And it works in 24 hours. So then I use my Kasikornbank card for everything else.

Total monthly penalty: $30.

I am far more happy with my relationship with HSBC which does not charge for ATM withdrawals at their own machines worldwide and they have excellent customer service departments.

Really? I'm sure they charged me quite significantly in 2004, so I've kept the little grey card for emergencies only, favouring my Nationwide card. Might try HSBC next time I'm in Lumphini.

Way things are shaping up, that may not be till after the funeral and coup though.

Henry Cate,
So as I understand it, you can initiate a wire transfer online from your bank account? This is not possible for my Canadian TD Canada Trust account via on line banking. What if someone hacks into your bank account? Then they would have access to wire transfer into their own accounts, wherever they may be. Not a good scenario for me.

[GWMinUS]

Since you are posting from the USA and asking specifically about ATM Transactions, or Withdrawals, I will add my comment.

I use my Bank of America ATM card in the Philippines.
There no one takes Travelers Checks any more or will take only 1 and make you fill out many forms to cash it.

Call BofA and ask about their Affiliated Network Banks. These specific banks do not charge you for using their ATM and BofA also waives the out-of-network fee.
I do not know about the exchange rate. In the Philippines it was reasonable. But being able to get cash from one the ATMS at a Network Bank was easy!! Just put in your ATM Card and make a withdrawal from your checking account. If you need more than the ATM Limit, do it again!!!

Now, Credit Card transactions are different. I use ONLY CapitalOne because they charge NO transaction fee and provide a good exchange rate. Avoid your BofA, Barkeley, or Citi Cards!!! They hit you with a 3% Conversion Fee. All for nothing!!!

Cheers!!
George

What if someone hacks into your bank account?Hacks into bank accounts have to be one of the Internet's rarer occurrences. Most pilfering occurs because the user has received an email, purportedly from his bank asking him to "verify his details" and clicked on the link which takes him to what's known as a Phishing site. That is, it's a self-inflicted wound. These days IE7 and Firefox both warn you when you click on such a link tht you're being directed to a Phishing site

Be careful about credit unions.. many are also now charging 2 or 3% conversion fees. I too found Internet banks to be the only ones that charge no fees and no conversion fees. I use BANK OF INTERNET (based in San Diego CA). They also have a senior citizen account for anyone over 50 that refunds any charges the bank that owns the ATM tries to charge you. THis is important because it seems Thai banks are now starting to charge for ATM wirthdrawels.
It also pays 2% interest.

[mahjongguy]

In emergencies, if more cash is needed, I have my bank at home wire money directly to my Thai bank.
How do you do that when you are in Thailand, as you usually have to sign?

Well, you need to have a U.S. bank account, and a Thai bank account. My own account is with the much-maligned Citibank, which at least does me the favor of keeping the accounts open while I am not in the U.S.

It is true: they began imposing a dastardly 3% fee some months ago -- for ATM withdrawals, and foreign use of the ATM/Master Card.

Now comes the math: if you have a U.S. income of $2,000 per month, and withdraw it via the ATM machine, you will pay about $60 for doing that.

BUT, if you go to the Citibank website, and initiate a wire-transfer there, the cost of the transfer is $30 (flat rate).

I always do the wire transfer, whenever possible. And it works in 24 hours. So then I use my Kasikornbank card for everything else.

Total monthly penalty: $30.

Kbank charges 500 baht to receive wire transfers. Still, you are doing the right thing.

[mahjongguy]

So as I understand it, you can initiate a wire transfer online from your bank account?

My U.S. bank (Wells Fargo) does not have a wire transfer feature in its online banking, but it does have an automated phone system. On a visit to a branch I set up a Repetitive Wire Transfer. All I have to do now is call their machine, enter a PIN code and an amount. It takes 45 seconds and costs $25 (discounted from the usual $30).

Be careful about credit unions.. many are also now charging 2 or 3% conversion fees. I too found Internet banks to be the only ones that charge no fees and no conversion fees. I use BANK OF INTERNET (based in San Diego CA). They also have a senior citizen account for anyone over 50 that refunds any charges the bank that owns the ATM tries to charge you. THis is important because it seems Thai banks are now starting to charge for ATM wirthdrawels.
It also pays 2% interest.

Bank of Internet no longer offers the "senior checking" for those over 50. They stopped offering this account a few months ago.

One of the main reasons I never opened an account with them even when they offered that account was that they limited daily ATM withdrawals to US$300 which comes out to even less overseas since most banks will cap foreign withdrawals to about 80% of the allowable amount in US$. On top of that, Bank of Internet only refunds 7 ATM transaction fees per month.

You are "grandfathered" if you have an existing "senior checking" account with them. Too limiting on all counts, and no longer offered. They have a "high interest" checking account now that requires a minimum balance, still limits your daily withdrawals to US$300 and gives you 8 ATM refunds per month. Big fucking deal!

You have to keep up to date, read the fine print, ask lots of questions, be suspicious of the fuckers and always obey the golden rule of "caveat emptor".

Hello, I was the one who suggested the US CapitalOne plain ATM card, and after reading all the above, haven't changed my mind... I hope everybody already knows that there is a big legal difference in the US laws governing liability between a debit ATM card (the one that has a VISA hologram on it), and a "plain" ATM card with no hologram logo. Guess what: your liability for a fraudulent use of a lost/stolen debit card is set by law at a minimum of $500 or more if not reported immediately! There is no such law governing plain ATM cards which cannot be used without knowing the PIN, and it's up to the bank to forgive you if such thing happens. I know somebody who was made to pay a lot on a lost/stolen debit card, and I never carry it in my wallet ever since....
BTW, your max liability in the US on a lost credit card fraudulent use is $50, so don't ever sign up for those extra "insurance" plans from them pitched at all possible occasions.

For most vacationers, a $300 daily limit and 8 free transaction a month limit shouldn't be a problem. If you live in Thailand, you should probably have a Thai Bank Account and ATM anyway....

For most vacationers, a $300 daily limit and 8 free transaction a month limit shouldn't be a problem. If you live in Thailand, you should probably have a Thai Bank Account and ATM anyway....

Here are the details on Bank of Internet checking as of 30 August 2008.

Senior Checking is no longer available. Current users are "grandfathered".
They credit your Senior Checking account for up to US$7 per month in ATM fees. Since some banks charge rather high ATM fees this may only be a few transactions per month. Daily withdrawal limit is US$300 which may be less when funds are received in another currency from foreign ATMs. (Usually 80%of US$300 in the foreign currency.)

Bank of Internet now offers High Interest Checking in which you must maintain a minimum average daily deposit of US$5000 or you will incur a monthly fee of US$7.50. This account will credit up to US$8 per month in ATM fees. This account as of today pays interest of 3.4% (APY) on funds in the account.

While US$300 per day or its 80% equivalent in foreign currency may be sufficient under normal circumstances, for the average person, this limit could present a problem should an emergency arise.

One must weigh the benefits that this account would offer based on one's individual needs. I have rejected it out of hand as unsuitable for me. As I have stated in an earlier email, ask lots of question before jumping into something, read the fine print and caveat emptor (watch your fucking ass).

Here are the details on Bank of Internet checking as of 30 August 2009.It's always good to know what the future has in store

hah!

Here are the details on Bank of Internet checking as of 30 August 2009.It's always good to know what the future has in storeSorry, I meant to type 2008. Happy now?I'm not so easily pleased! Perhaps you've seen that UK series "Grumpy Old Men"? I am the prototype

Always wise to have some other source of Cash in an emergency other than an ATM card. I always travel with 2 other credit cards.. a Master Card and an American Express Card. The AMEX card can be quite useful in an emergency as American Express will take good care of you in a medical emergency. It also came in Very handy for cash advances when my ATM cards (WAMU at the time) would not work in any bank in Zurich when I was there 2 years ago.

Always wise to have some other source of Cash in an emergency other than an ATM card. I always travel with 2 other credit cards.. a Master Card and an American Express Card. The AMEX card can be quite useful in an emergency as American Express will take good care of you in a medical emergency. It also came in Very handy for cash advances when my ATM cards (WAMU at the time) would not work in any bank in Zurich when I was there 2 years ago.

What does American Express do that makes you say they "will take good care of you in a medical emergency"? Do they do something special above and beyond what any other credit or charge card does?

Carrying some cash, at least one additional ATM card, and even a few travelers checks is very wise. I never use cards to take cash advances since the fees are so high. They simply clobber you.

Does American Express charge that additional fee above and beyond the exchange conversion for use of their card overseas? I know Diners Club does which Citibank now owns, as well as all the Citibank owned cards such as A.T.&T. Visa card, and it is very hefty 3% on top of all the other conversion charges.

The last time I was in Thailand the international exchange rate was around 30 Baht to the US dollar (checked via the internet). However, when I went into a bank in Thailand or used an ATM machine I received about 32 baht per dollar. Where did that extra 2 baht come from?

As the international rate rose in favor of the dollar, the cash that I got from the ATMs remained about the same 32 baht. When the international rate reached 32 baht the 2 rates began to rise in Tandem.

The only explanation that I can guess at is that the Bank of Thailand (i.e. the Thai gov't) was subsidizing tourism by establishing a "tourist rate of exchange" which I have run across in my travels.

[Bob]

Who? Huh? Roger Daltry?

The so-called "international money rate" is typically lower and that's true of most non-major currencies. Banks in Europe, which don't have a lot of use for Thai baht (and typically have to go through the time and expense of sending the baht to
Thai banks to exchange for euros or whatever), won't give you as much for baht as a country that regularly uses the baht (i.e., has it in circulation). Nothing strange about that. Same for banks in New York, New Delhi, Moscow, etc. And it is those banks that set the so-called international money rate (which could be defined in New York's case as the amount of US dollars the New York Bank is willing to give you for so many baht).

[mahjongguy]

The so-called "international money rate" is typically lower and that's true of most non-major currencies. Banks in Europe, which don't have a lot of use for Thai baht (and typically have to go through the time and expense of sending the baht to
Thai banks to exchange for euros or whatever), won't give you as much for baht as a country that regularly uses the baht (i.e., has it in circulation). Nothing strange about that. Same for banks in New York, New Delhi, Moscow, etc. And it is those banks that set the so-called international money rate (which could be defined in New York's case as the amount of US dollars the New York Bank is willing to give you for so many baht).

Well, that's not the actual story.

There are two rates for the baht. The rate in Thailand is THB, and the offshore rate is officially known as THO.

THB has generally been at least 10% better, and never dipped below 32.

When you send dollars to Thailand you get the local bank rate, not the offshore rate. The THO rate quoted on forex sites is only used for holding baht in cyberspace. If you want to know what your dollar is worth, check the website of a Thai bank for its current telex rate. Do not check the various forex websites unless you actually intend to engage in foreign exchange speculation.

This is assuming that you send dollars and let the receiving Thai do the conversion to baht. Never ever let your own bank sell you the baht before they transmit. They cannot and will not give you as good a rate.

Well, that's not the actual story.

There are two rates for the baht. The rate in Thailand is THB, and the offshore rate is officially known as THO.

THB has generally been at least 10% better, and never dipped below 32.

When you send dollars to Thailand you get the local bank rate, not the offshore rate. The THO rate quoted on forex sites is only used for holding baht in cyberspace. If you want to know what your dollar is worth, check the website of a Thai bank for its current telex rate. Do not check the various forex websites unless you actually intend to engage in foreign exchange speculation.

This is assuming that you send dollars and let the receiving Thai do the conversion to baht. Never ever let your own bank sell you the baht before they transmit. They cannot and will not give you as good a rate.


I have been in finance all my life and have never heard of 'onshore' and 'offshore' exchange rates. Thanks. But that begs the question: how does the bank in Thailand that forked over 32 Baht for one Dollar recover the 2 baht? When it goes to sell the dollar on the open market it will only be offered 30 baht ?? (I am using the previous 30/32 example).

[mahjongguy]

how does the bank in Thailand that forked over 32 Baht for one Dollar recover the 2 baht? When it goes to sell the dollar on the open market it will only be offered 30 baht ?? (I am using the previous 30/32 example).[/b][/color][/size]

I think we would need someone from the Finance Ministry to provide a full answer to your question, but I can point out that the dollars received by the Thai bank will be
1) held by the bank in hopes they increase in value, or
2) sold to the government, which will then
1) hold on to the dollars if they feel that this strengthens the baht, or
2) exchange the dollars gov't to gov't (the U.S. Treasury).

So, the "open market" isn't involved in any of this.

Note: at the moment it happens that the gap between the onshore and offshore rates has shrunk to near zero. Speculators faced with a strong dollar are being forced to unload their baht holdings, driving down the offshore rate. Meanwhile, the Thai government has raised interest rates and made other small changes intended to help strengthen the onshore rate. This near-parity in rates may last for a while, but in any case, unless you dabble in the forex market, it is the Thai bank rates that you want to consult.

I have been in finance all my life and have never heard of 'onshore' and 'offshore' exchange rates.Two contradictory statements