30% fall in tourists

I read with no surprise in the Pattaya mail that tourist numbers are down 30% in pattaya this year. Perhaps the filthy beach at Jomtien is a contributor. On some days recently I have seen a thick sludge on the water and the amount of rubbish it throws up is depressing. I know we are having a lot of rain and the storm-water is washing all the cartons, cigarette ends and plastic into the sea, not to mention the dog shit, which means the ecoli levels must be sky high. I recommend anyone who ventures in not to have an open sore , wear goggles and don't ingest and if you have a tummy upset don't only blame the restaurant you ate at last night

[thrillbill]

Some sanitation company (?) I think is dumping garbage(on barges) out beyond the islands of Pattaya Bay and if the water current is right, the trash washes ashore in the morning. This litter does not occur every day but this summer it has happened frequently--at least in the Northern Pattaya area. The garbage is NOT faded from the sun or broken into pieces; for, you can still read the labels on the glass energy drink bottles, milk cartons and such. This debris lines the beach for 2-3 kilometers. Also, the sewage runs into the bay...so all of this contributes to an unsightly and unhealthy beach. The city doesn't care...the city officials don't understand that if the first time tourist is here for a beach vacation, he/she most likely won't return again.

But let's face it, many of the tourists holiday in Pattaya (numerous times) for the "socializing" with the locals; not for the scenic, clean sea water.

If there is a big decrease in tourists visiting Pattaya, it is most likely due to the world's economic slow down and due to the increase cost of flight tickets...and most of the tourists* that come to Pattaya aren't exactly the big spenders so increase in costs would be a factor. (*NOTE: I said most, not all.)

On some days recently I have seen a thick sludge on the water and the amount of rubbish it throws up is depressing. I know we are having a lot of rain and the storm-water is washing all the cartons, cigarette ends and plastic into the sea, not to mention the dog shit, which means the ecoli levels must be sky high. I recommend anyone who ventures in not to have an open sore , wear goggles and don't ingest and if you have a tummy upset don't only blame the restaurant you ate at last night

Yet the amazing thing is, some Pattaya farangs are cleaner after getting out of the water than they were going in.

[allieb]

I read with no surprise in the Pattaya mail that tourist numbers are down 30% in pattaya this year. Perhaps the filthy beach at Jomtien is a contributor. On some days recently I have seen a thick sludge on the water and the amount of rubbish it throws up is depressing. I know we are having a lot of rain and the storm-water is washing all the cartons, cigarette ends and plastic into the sea, not to mention the dog shit, which means the ecoli levels must be sky high. I recommend anyone who ventures in not to have an open sore , wear goggles and don't ingest and if you have a tummy upset don't only blame the restaurant you ate at last night

Or the asshole you ate

[dab69]

didn't take long for the increase in jet fuel and ticket prices to lead to a decrease in tourism.
Was just wondering today what the actual effect would be on TH. I was figuring that it would have an even greater impact.

Checked prices for a ticket from Midwest USA
January as low as $900
March ~$1100
July $2500

I know it usually goes up a bit in the summer anyway but not this much.
Currently gas prices have declined abit. Considering worldwide petroleum usage
this just can't keep on before we start running out totally. I am actually pleased prices have risen here because usage lately has been CUT in the USA by 800,000 barrels per DAY(?)

(no, not you Raig56)

As I've said before in other threads. The Big Meltdown in the US is going global. Europe is staggering. Asia has already felt the pinch. The Shanghai Stock Market is already off more than 50% and Japan is reporting its first down quarter in a year.
This is turning into the biggest global downturn since 1930.

But the big question is: what is the next big investment opportunity?????

(Haven't figured it out yet but I'll be sure to let you all know when I do :geek: )

Then why is Phuket holding up well then, I think a clean beach is more important than you would imagine

DELETED

[thrillbill]

kenc asks:But the big question is: what is the next big investment opportunity?????

IF you have the extra cash (and time to do your homework) , buying cheap property/ real estate that has defaulted in the US. Eventually real estate value will go up; meanwhile you can rent it out.

Correction: you can try to rent it out.

kenc asks:But the big question is: what is the next big investment opportunity?????

IF you have the extra cash (and time to do your homework) , buying cheap property/ real estate that has defaulted in the US. Eventually real estate value will go up; meanwhile you can rent it out.

Property prices are still falling in both the US and the UK (and probably most other places too). So the discount you get from buying defaulted property may well be overtaken by the fall in property prices over the next few months - and then keep on going down. Keep your money in a savings account (better still several with different institutions) and buy property once the upturn starts. This, particularly if the current downturn is prolonged, is the closest thing you will get to a sure-thing investment. You lose a bit of the potential profit because you didn't buy at rock bottom, but cut out most of the potential risk. Though nothing in life is certain.

But the big question is: what is the next big investment opportunity?????

Easy now: stocks :-) I am sure pices on oil and food will decrease and soon the stocks is again the best bet. I hope you did not sell before, because then you have all lost. Stay calm we have been into this situation before, and looking at it historial, it has still been the best investment. Sellling when they are going down is sti├║pied, buying only when they get up is stupied too. I dont do it myself, but let my pensioncompany do it for me, and have not changed my investment profile. And I dont think we are going iback nto the 1930tiesm you dont' kmnow I dont know, only time will tell.
Well back to Pattaya.....---Ups I forgot I dont go there hehe, :-)
I have known my bs in Bangkok 3 years and he never ask if I have lost anything on the stocks exhange, he do not care or know.,. and no I have only supported him with 20000 BHT, during 3 years, he is still there┬┤and he know I am not a cheap carlie nor a ATM when we are together. Maybe it is love.

Well. ....back to the decrease of tourist in Pattaya.....

[allieb]

Correction: you can try to rent it out.

Easy to rent out but try getting the rent.

[thrillbill]

Correction: you can try to rent it out.

Depending on the location, the people that lost their homes/ condos now have to rent,

The drop in numbers now has nothing to do with the oil price - that will kick in later on. My ticket and many others like mine were booked long before oil prices rose. I fear for the Thai traders future.

[Marsilius]

In no particular order, I would suggest the following possible causes, each affecting some visitors (or their perception - because they read these things in the media). Together, they are creating the current marked decline:

1. hike in air fares because of oil prices
2. hike in virtually everything else that depends on oil for its delivery (i.e. virtually all commodities)
3. after years of seeing that the first Taksin governement's "social order" campaign is not going to be reversed after all, some have given up on a place that sends you back to the hotel far earlier than you'd like to go
4. while many Thai people are friendly, there is a strong sense that many do not really want foreigners in their country at all and are only suffering our presence because they need to earn our money
5. rising crime rates - especially in Pattaya
6. increasing police activity means that innocent people are sometimes caught up in raids, locked up until they can produce a passport, etc.
7 the perception that Thailand's institutions - and especially the police - are corrupt, adding to the impression that Thailand is a place where you will probably be ripped off in some way - and without redress
8. the single-male niche market that Thailand had virtually tied up - and that guaranteed a regular, loyal, solid base of visitor numbers - has been (wisely or unwisely) deliberately eroded by much of the above, in favour of encouraging "families". That, however, is a flawed concept as Thailand does not have the high quality infrastructure to attract that family market away from its regional rivals. Conversely, it does have the poor infrastructure, dirty beaches, ongoing reputation for sex, etc. that will repell many families. The family vacation market is also more fickle and responds negatively more quickly to increased oil prices, etc., than does the single male traveller who is determined to get to his one or two Thailand holidays per year come hell or high water.

As for denying that there is a problem just because Phuket is allegedly not suffering as badly as Pattaya, it does not surprise me that Phuket has not (yet) been hit so hard. Its beaches are more attractive and, by definition, it attracts wealthier visitors than Pattaya (I imagine that many Pattaya visitors would rule out Phuket on grounds of cost). Hence Pattaya will be the first part of the kingdom to be hit by all the above - but it is unlikely to be the last if things continue in the current way: even the middle classes of the West are feeling the current economic pinch and, though they may have already booked this year's vacation and so are tied in to it, when it comes to selecting and paying for next year's break maybe we will see a change...

Correction: you can try to rent it out.Depending on the location, the people that lost their homes/ condos now have to rent,And you have to hope like hell they'll takes as good care of it as renters that they would as owners - else your repair bills could reduce your "profits" even more

7 the perception that Thailand's institutions - and especially the police - are corrupt, adding to the impression that Thailand is a place where you will probably be ripped off in some way - and without redress
7. the single-male niche market that Thailand had virtually tied up I feel completely ripped off - what happened to #8? As to the original #7, you have only to change one letter in the old name for Thailand to derive the word for rip-offs. (Oh, OK WhiteDesire, I know you're dumb so here it is - Siam = Scam)

I'd have thought that there are some other reasons, such as "been there, done that"; and if 2008 is an Asia year for tourism then the Olympics makes China a more obvious market for the "true" tourist (ie. not the backpacker White Trash)

A friend arriving at the airport the other day told me that he thought he heard a very odd announcement on the aircraft (he doesn't pay much attention to these things). It was something like "If you're staying more than 15 days, please have a copy of your itinerary ready to show Immigration". Now that is tourist-unfriendly

The figure of a 30% drop in tourist numbers is, as with most statistics, open to a vast degree of interpretation. This was a figure given by the Pattaya TAT (Phuket has yet to give any figures for this year) and refers to all tourists visiting Pattaya, including Thais visiting from other parts of the country - hence the figure given by them some time ago showing an average expenditure of less than 1,000 baht per "tourist" per day.

The number of tourists is certainly down, for all the reasons given by Marsilius, particularly in Pattaya's case number 7 (or 8), but quite by how much is as yet very unclear.

Mind The Gap's "informed" views on Thailand and the property market (even on his home ground!!) are worthless, as usual: Thailand is, comparatively, as cheap as it has always been, particularly for British and European tourists, and hotel/property experts such as Hotel and Catering Magazine, Christie and Co,and the UK Hotel Forecast from consultancy firm Pricewaterhouse Coopers agree with a report from bizsale.co.uk published today that "profits of large, corporate hotels may be down but the cheaper end of the hotel market is flourishing.... In some holiday areas, there is an oversupply of accommodation and hotels are going cheap."

[Brad the Impala]

The figure of a 30% drop in tourist numbers is, as with most statistics, open to a vast degree of interpretation. This was a figure given by the Pattaya TAT (Phuket has yet to give any figures for this year

Phuket has given it's figures which show an increase in the numbers of tourists visiting.

phuketgazette.net/dailynews/index.asp?id=6720 (http://phuketgazette.net/dailynews/index.asp?id=6720)

Well spotted, Brad the Liar - the figures were published a couple of days ago, showing a 12% rise in international tourists through the airport (but an unspecified drop in the numbers of Thai tourists) - quite a contrast to the previous figures for the year, 3 months ago, which showed a near 16% drop!

[Marsilius]

For clarification of any further discussion, I have now corrected my error in numbering.

Dammit! One day I'll learn to count past seven...

A comment above states that Phuket is more expensive than Pattaya. Anyone got any figures they'd like to throw in the mix. (Am not disputing, just curious on the amount difference)

[Beachlover]

Phuket is often marketed as a standalone destination from Thailand. It has beautiful beaches and a lot of nearby island activities not found in Pattaya or Jomtien. There are a lot of direct international flights to Phuket... including Jetstar.

Phuket is much more expensive than Pattaya. I recall the food is about the same price, but accomodation and transport is much more.

I paid about 3 times as much for accomodation in Phuket (3000baht+) than I did in Pattaya... although I was staying in a nicer place and almost beachfront so this was partly justified. Places near the main beach front (Patong Beach) are at a premium because there's a shortage of space there. Other beaches quieter away from the nightlife are less costly... but not really worth staying at unless you're a couple looking for a quiet time.

I think tuk tuks have some sort of arrangement to f*ck with the supply/demand laws because they spend more time sitting still than moving. Tuk Tuks in Phuket won't move for less than 150baht... even if it's for a 2-3 minute trip. Their attitude is extremely arrogant there. You'll see 10-15 of them lined up for hours and not a single one of them will budge for below 150baht. Coming out of the airport, you have to look around to find the meter taxis, which cost about 400baht to get into town. The tuk tuks all charge 600baht + and won't budge.

During high season, hotels are booked out all over the place (don't arrive without a booking, unless you're travelling light!). Some places, even the nicer places where you're paying a fair bit treat you like crap, because they can. They know there's no where else for you to go. There are more tourists than available rooms (near the beach).

All in all, Phuket is a bit more expensive, but still cheap as peanuts compared to where I'm from. And it's got a good mix of nightlife/beauty. Patong is probably the finest developed beach in the world and there are a LOT of activities to do, sea kayaking, diving, island hopping, cruises, rafting and more.

It's worth mentioning again, that Phuket's biggest plus is its extreme beauty... even the main beach (equivalent to Pattaya Beach) is extremely beautiful to lie on and swim in.

[Beachlover]

Also it's worth saying the nightlife (gay) in Phuket is about half or 1/3rd the size of Boyztown... I remember 2 big gogo bars, 2 small gogo bars, 2 massage bars, 2 host bars and 1 general bar. There's also 3 main gay hotels on the main gay strip... 2 offer massage... 2 have saunas.

So I would say it's a "mid-sized scene"..

So basically in Phuket, you get the best of the "natural beauty" - incredible beach scenery and water mixed with a decent (but not huge like BKK or Pattaya) nightlife.

I think it's definitely worth going to. I was captivated the first time I went. The beach really was so nice.

So I would say it's a "mid-sized scene"I went there once for a couple of days; too many boys with tattoos and too many tiny bars with a handful of boys

[Beachlover]

It's true there's not that many boys.... no where near as many as Bkk or Pattaya

Still.... I still prefer it as Phuket is a much nicer island with nicer beaches and better scenery.

[Smiles]

" ... I went there once for a couple of days; too many boys with tattoos and too many tiny bars with a handful of boys ... "
TRANSLATION: "Not enough face-sitters"

Cheers ...