The message still does not seem to be getting across!

[Alaan]

The safe sex message.

I came back from a one month visit to Thailand last week and it was mostly what i would describe as a normal visit..nothing out of the ordinary .. i had a few partners on my travels in Bangkok, Pattaya and other places. But the one thing which stood out on this visit was the amount of boys who did not even mention the need for a condom when having sex.

I am a top, and so i always have condoms with me.. i take durex from uk as i'm sure of the quality and they have more comfortable sizes for me. So there was never any doubt or problem with using condoms.. but only two boys asked about condoms prior to the act. And even one of them was prepared to have sex on the second occasion without.. when i asked why... he said he knew me so therefore he trusted i was ok.. but he was also a little drunk.

When you are a little intoxicated it is very tempting not to bother with condoms especially in the heat of the moment.. but as far as i am concerned it is not worth the small inconvenience of slowing down proceedings to fit one as opposed to the possible consequences of not having one. Also for me i like the durex play lube called 'tingle' which gives a good sensation even with condoms... so when i use this it is no problem to fit a condom at the same time.

I am a top and the boys i were with were mostly gay bottom.. but i did go with boys who you would describe as 'men'[versatile] and it was only these two who asked for condom.

It is not only the h.i.v. consideration i am concerned about.. but more the common stds that can flourish without safe sex..

I feel the bars really need to keep the message at the forefront...... most bars i went to did have information and warnings about not using condoms on posters in the toilets.. and even on the beer bottle holders.. but you can't help but think the messages disappear into the background after a while..

There needs to be on going awareness... to keep the message in vogue.. i'm not sure the best way to get the message across but scare-mongering sometimes seems to work.

I know it is the responsibility of each person who engages in sex to be protected.. but the reality is different.. i still find many boys from the country areas are ignorant of the importance.. more especially boys new to the trade.. you would expect the bar owners and mama-sans to have pushed the message across to these workers.. but the purveyors in the sex trade don't want to dwell on the negatives.. many [not all] simply don't care about the boys welfare.. and try to paint as rosy a picture about the work as possible to keep attracting new boys to the bars.. and of course keep the profits going.

I'm not sure if i was simply unlucky (or lucky as some farangs/customers who have the same attitude as some of the boys would think) in my choices of boys prepared to have sex without condoms or are others finding the same 'couldn't care less' attitude as i did? and that the general trend is towards unsafe sex..for whatever reason?

I hope others can give more re-assuring experiences than mine.

I will give some reviews and other thoughts on my visit later for anyone who cares to read.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Condoms and lube are back in most of the saunas, in the lockers or given at the desk. Same at the massage venues, condoms provided.

[yedo111]

Well I can confirm that many of the younger boys will not ask you for a condom.

I always bring them with me from Europe myself , but if I forget the condoms many of the boys just say its ok
, I trust you , its very difficult to understand this. Mai pen rai .

I think professional moneyboys are more concerned and bring with them condoms.

But if you're lucky to meet some nice horny and drunk boys at DJ station in Bangkok , they will not care about condoms....

[catawampuscat]

I have heard condom-less sex is not uncommon in the Western world among gay men.
Younger gay men have not lived thru the HIV-AIDS horrors that many of us here survived
and with much better treatment available, some look at it as a treatable condition and not
a death sentence..

The other extreme are those who insist on condoms for oral sex.. Unless you have a thing for sucking
latex, I'll pass on it but of course there are statistics that say it is possible to transmit HIV orally with mouth
sores or dental issues..

There seems to be little SID among the farangs I know and if someone had the clap, I think we'd hear more
about it so it may be that condom use is helping keep the spread of gonorrhea and syphilis down.
You do hear about genital/anal warts sometimes and I wouldn't get near them even with condoms but to each
his own. :cat:

[Dodger]

I've heard conflicting opinions about HIV being transmitted via oral sex, although can see where it would be possible.

I guess I'm one of those idiots who's going to bite the big cookie one of these days - because I'll be dammed if I'm going to suck co*k, or have my own co*k sucked while wearing a rubber. That would be like listening to my favorite Steely Dan song with my fingers stuck in my ears...not for me.

[Diec]

I think this is atrocious that there are young beautiful Thai boys that are having unprotected sex in the year 2008. They should all be well informed of the dangers of unprotected sex. Since we are all mostly elderly gay men on this board, we need to take it upon ourselves to educate these poor uniformed young boys. Maybe we could hold an AIDS awareness fund raiser? Count me in!!

Dodger...if wish to partake in risky sexual behavior, (I did not say unsafe) that is up to you. However, we owe it to these lovely brown skinned beauties that we all adore so much to engage in pure safe sex, risky is just that...risky. Unless someone is in a monogamous relationship like me and my future husband (we have both been tested several times) I believe 100% safe sex is the way to go.

[Wesley]

Safe sex for me, If I play around or I know the bf is playing around safe sex. In the past when I had monogamous relationship where I was sure we both were just with each other it was no big deal. Then After being with a guy for 2 years he tells me he has AIDES always had it and never told me. If I had of had a gun I would have shot him I think. Needless to say the lecture was fairly long about how he could have killed me. Then he was killed in an Auto accident later.

Also, I had a best friend who was Positive, he was upset with a guy who had stolen his boy friend.He purposely Lured him into bed and had unprotected sex with him with the intent to give him AIDES. He is still is alive after going though all the experimental stuff at Duke university, the guy he intended to kill is dead.What I am saying even people you know and think love you and people you think you know are not always what you believe them to be. Better safe than sorry. I remember the Six months of waiting after wards wondering if I would test positive after being with the guy for so long and unprotected sex. I never want to go through another six months like that again. ST D's are nothing to play with and all leave their mark and often their worry of future problems relating to them. Hepatitis B for one, seems to cause pancreas cancer later in life. Condoms cost so little it makes no sense not to use them. hepatitus B is easily transferred orally. So play if you will but when the time comes to pay the piper no need to complain.

Wes

[allieb]

Since we are all mostly elderly gay men on this board, we need to take it upon ourselves to educate these poor uniformed young boys.

Diec

I don't think there are any Thais out there who don't know about AIDS or how its caught. The fact is there are just too many Thais who just don't care, tomorrow its too far away.

There are of course Farang who don't care also but for different reasons as Cat said. They look upon AIDS as treatable, which most of us know is not always the case. Some folk just don't respond well to the available meds. Nobody dies of ignorance anymore

[nanette]

cancer of the pancreas from exposeure to hepatitis B virus? perhaps...but would'nt it be more likely the liver that turns cancerous? Anyway cancer is scary enough....

I have heard condom-less sex is not uncommon in the Western world among gay men.Yes, it's a bit rich saying "the message is not getting across [to Thais]" as if somehow the Thais just don't "get it", when bare-backing is becoming more common among young Western gays. The perception among many Thais that I've talked to is that if there's no cumming "inside" then it's danger-free, and if not then "mai ben rai". A friend who lives in London says that the attitude among some of his younger friends is that HIV is no longer life-threatening but manageable via drugs

The laurels go to the whomever figures out how to get this message "across" to gays in their teens and twenties anywhere on the planet.

In the US, rates of new HIV cases have decreased in straights, drug users, older gays--all groups except young gay men.

This "message" has been in their faces most of their lives, yet the risky behavior continues.... and they are under no pressure to replace the family water buffalo.

So, what to do?

Human nature. How many people still smoke, in spite of knowing the dangers? Or ride motorcycles without safety helmets, or cars without safety belts? Or do other stupid, risky things?

Frankly, I don't lose sleep worrying about stupid people. As long as they are aware of the risks, it's their lives to throw away if they want.

[catawampuscat]

Chao Na hits the proverbial nail on the head.
Many if not most of the farangs I see in Pattaya/Jomtien smoke cigarettes.. It seems heaviest among the
French speakers and also high among the Europeans in general..
It is dangerous and stupid and rude and expensive (outside Thailand anyway) and yet it continues in spite
of all the education and all the information available.
Granted, it is a habit and difficult to break but it is a deadly one.

Homintern also hits the nail on the head and agrees with my perception that unsafe sex is common among
young gay men in the West in spite of massive education efforts..

Alcohol abuse is also very common in places like Pattaya/Jomtien and many refuse to acknowledge that they
have a problem and even if they do, many keep on drinking heavily on their way to an early grave..

We should not be surprised at young Thai guys who are not strict about condom use and frankly the odds
are good that much older gay farangs are relatively low risk as they have survived many decades of possible
exposure and there is less likelihood of the most dangerous behavior which is sharing needles among drug addicts..

I don't excuse any of the above behaviors but reality bites sometimes and some will wear suspenders and belts at the same
time or others will take risks unacceptable to many but not something anyone else can control.. it really is up to you. :cat:

A friend who lives in London says that the attitude among some of his younger friends is that HIV is no longer life-threatening but manageable via drugs

Yeh. At taxpayers expense and enormous curtailment of "life" in general. One of my friends here has been HIV+ for about twenty years. He was too weak during his twenties to seek employment and quite emaciated. He got interested in stage lighting and is now able to support his living expenses working as a qualified electrician due to the H&S regs of nanny Europe.

He's a good hearted soul, not a sponger and not had an easy life.

[thrillbill]

I think some gays think the "HIV cocktail"/ medicine that is out will keep one from getting AIDS. TRUE, there is medicine out there that will "slow down' the HIV developing into AIDS...but it isn't a 100% cure (and it is expensive). I've read where the new "cocktails of pills" can extend ones live around 30 years. BUT the doctors still don't know the side effects of the various medicine that is out there being used--- liver/ kidney damage... heart problems....

[Impulse]

Hepatitis b causing pancreatic cancer? Thats news to me also. If you get hep b,you have a 90% chance of clearing it,and a 10% chance it will become chronic.I would assume if you are in the unlucky 10% group,your odds of liver cancer would be much higher. Hepatitis c is the mirror opposite.Only a 10% chance of clearing it and a 90 % chance of it becoming chronic.A much stronger chance of cancer from hep c as it is much more aggressive. If you havnt had the hep a and b vaccination and your in Thailand you better get it.I had hep b,but I cleared it on my own.Im hoping to not get liver cancer from having been exposed to it.