And yet another Shan bites the dust...

This time, I witnessed the whole thing (almost). The best guy from Free Guy had come for a visit, and it was splendid. Very loving and very affectionate. Then he headed for home, and got arrested by the Thai police. He called me, and he called his Thai manager.

I zoomed right up, and took (really) no part in the proceedings -- except for being a watching farang. My guy from Free Guy was busted for a number of "crimes" -- while I sat on my AirBlade right behind him, wearing no helmet, having no license, and driving a bike which was registered in a Thai name.

Did the Thai police bust me? Of course not!

Fortunately, the owner/manager of Free Guy showed up, and we got away for a MERE one thousand baht. I suspect the arresting policeman put that bank-note into his household budget, even though there was a form and my guy had to sign his name.

At least he got away in 15 minutes, without losing his bike. But that was with an onlooking farang, and a very helpful Thai manager.

And, I'm not sure if you're aware, but if a cop writes a ticket, he gets half the money legally, rather than all the cash illegally by sticking it in his pocket.Clearly this is an example of Dek Wat's "Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture"

Henry, are you implying that your boy was doing nothing illegal at the time the cops nailed him?

Henry makes these boys out to be angels, yet concedes they work in Free Guy; a few things about Free GuyWhere is this Den of Iniquity?

[jinks]

Where is this Den of Iniquity?

Not this one, but there is one just down the road from me. http://www.denofiniquity.co.uk/

These constant threads from Henry Cate on this forum about Shan boys and motorbikes are getting me pissed. The BIB are only doing their job clamping down on the minority of illegals who get the rest of the Shan People a bad name.

Henry makes these boys out to be angels, yet concedes they work in Free Guy; a few things about Free Guy:
1. Many of the guys who work there are Shan illegals
2. The real business of the bar is not just boys but something else too (why do you think the boys are constantly jumping on motorbikes coming and going from the place?).
3. Many of the boys have picked up a"habit" from this business which they cheat and steal to finance.
4. All this goes on under the "protection" of the real owner.

I know several guys who work/have worked in Free Guy; some are friends; none are angels. And I've lost count of the "police took my motosai" stories - though for every real story there's five more scam stories for the farang (how many of the "fines" have you paid Henry :idea: ?). They are more likely to have lost the motosai in a back street gambling den, than to the police anyway. But what the heck, they just go steal another one!

Does anyone think there's a single one of these Shan Boys that provide Henry's sexual gratification who wouldn't be happier living back with their families in the Shan State in peace and tranquility? Except that they can't!

Henry: if you really care about the Shan people, rather than making whinging posts about your latest trick having to pay his dues to the BIB make some posts supporting some of those who actually do give a damm and publicise the cause for what is really going on in the Shan state, and what these boys are running away from. Some examples:

http://www.shanland.org
http://www.maisoongkha.com
http://www.freeburmarangers.org
http://www.tai-nation.org
http://www.loisamseep.info
http://www.shan-orphans.org
http://www.taifreedom.com
http://www.tai4freedom.info
http://www.irrawaddy.org

:flower: The plight of the Shan People is something I care passionately about. Rant Over!

Define "Shan illegal."

And why do you put words in my mouth, e.g. Henry makes these boys out to be angels. I don't think I have ever seriously called anyone an angel -- I don't like them very much.

Since you were "nice" enough to post a list of Shan websites, most of which I know, I will give YOU a list of sites explaining why it is wrong to put words into the mouths of others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

You close by making your statement "The plight of the Shan People is something I care passionately about." As if to imply that I don't.

But, seriously now, what damned good does it do to CARE ABOUT something? In the US, you would put a bumper sticker on your car: "I LOVE THE SHAN!" and it would accomplish nothing and make you feel good. The real questions (to unawakened me) are:

What can be done to ameliorate the plight of the Shan people in Northern Thailand?
What can be done to solve the larger political problem of the Shan States vs. Burma?

My agenda for the first item involves publicizing cases of overt Thai racism against the Shan, and also teaching English (for free) to various Shan and hill-tribe people. What (ahem) do YOU do? You've gotten around to ranting over me, does that complete your list of required action items?

The second item will/would be very, very tricky. Recently, the American magazine The New Republic briefly called for regime change in Burma. I guess that, later on, someone said "Hey, we were all for regime change in Iraq, but when somebody actually went and did it, we dumped all over him."

My own thinking (not very advanced) would require the consent of the major powers around Burma -- at the very least, China, India, and Thailand. This appears HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

I suppose you realize that there is an insurgency movement in the North of Thailand, but I'm not sure it would be wise to comment on it further. Moreover, I think it would be doomed unless two of the major powers signed up for it.

.... What can be done to ameliorate the plight of the Shan people in Northern Thailand?

My agenda ... involves publicizing cases of overt Thai racism against the Shan, and also teaching English (for free) to various Shan and hill-tribe people. What (ahem) do YOU do?

Hopefully anyone who seriously claims to be "doing" something can justify their boast with rather more than constantly posting about Shan getting fined for breaking the law and "teaching English" to Shan/hill-tribe bar-boys he has offed.

[globalwanderer]

Bites the dust.......

he was stopped by the Police....

was he breaking any Thai law at the time....


Bites the dust.... a little bit over the top.....

[catawampuscat]

Henry is intense about the Shan people and has a tendency to emote and dramatize the plight of these people.
Certainly, they are a minority with issues and problems and suffer from their minority status.
Henry has brought this issue to our collective attention and should be applauded for his devotion and strong
desire to bring about changes, if only in our attitudes and understanding of the issue..

As homintern will gleefully point out, hyperbole is easy to ridicule and the issue is really one for the Thai
people to work out and evolve and not one that will find much support on a forum such as this.
I am sure there are many different "hill people" worthy of support and understanding from the outside world
and all of us but about all Henry can do, is to educate us and try to inspire us but alas, most of us are not
in Chiang Mai and have little to do with the Shan and don't get overwhelmed when a Shan person is stopped by
the traffic police or when there is a death in a large extended family.

I hope Henry doesn't burn out and move on as it is refreshing to see someone with spunk and heart and a cause
burning in their soul.. Some of us could us a little enlightenment and get off our duffs but reality is most of us
are past the age of sit-ins, attending rallies for unjust treatment, and boycotting etc..
Still, a voice in the dark is always needed at times, to remind us of the broader issues in the country and widen
our collective horizons, if only a little bit.. :cat:

Henry is intense about the Shan people and has a tendency to emote and dramatize the plight of these people.

I've only seen him emote and dramatize about teenage Shan male prostitutes, who he seems to think should be exempt from Thai laws because they are cute and he's fucking them.

[quote="Henry Cate":1jfkbi0h] .... What can be done to ameliorate the plight of the Shan people in Northern Thailand?

My agenda ... involves publicizing cases of overt Thai racism against the Shan, and also teaching English (for free) to various Shan and hill-tribe people. What (ahem) do YOU do?

Hopefully anyone who seriously claims to be "doing" something can justify their boast with rather more than constantly posting about Shan getting fined for breaking the law and "teaching English" to Shan/hill-tribe bar-boys he has offed.

Those who are "doing" something are risking their lives in the jungles of Myanmar and the Thai border areas providing help and assistance to refugees and victims of the conflict. I'm not gonna compromise my or anyone else's safety by commenting further on a public forum like this.

Last Shan bar boy I know who learned English agreed to quit the business in return for a Farang sending him to school. Guess what, a year later he's back in the bar, boasting how he gets so many more off's due to his new skills! Apart from that, what's the point. They won't need English on a construction site, or in a restaurant kitchen, and they sure as hell have no job prospects elsewhere.

Check out Henry's text book: http://www.paiboonpublishing.com/details.php?prodId=35 Maybe they're working on a Shan version with the help of practical examples :bounce:[/quote:1jfkbi0h]

I guess you didn't read that part of my posting about straw men, or you wouldn't have picked Benjawan's worst book as my so-called "textbook."

The problem with "straw men" is that you can utterly destroy them and your real opponent is left standing, untouched. But I'll leave Benjawan alone for now; she's a nice lady and I know her slightly. The real question is why you think you should be my opponent.

Your current vendetta apparently centers around the folly of teaching English to Burmese refugees. And you state the blindingly obvious when you say that English proficiency will get them more offs -- if they are working as bar-boys.

Well, I'll reply with another blindingly obvious statement: when the time comes for them to leave that trade (if they are, in fact, bar-boys), an ability to communicate in English will simply be money in the bank for them. To put it in another way: no matter what your job is, in Thailand, if you supplement the basic job skills with a knowledge of English, you'll quite likely increase your earnings by 10,000 baht per month (if not more). My very first graduate was a song thaew (red truck) driver, who had previously been operating on a very slim margin, but was able to cut his business BACK by finally doing business only with farang tourists who called him on the phone. He has since moved on (somewhat incredibly) to become a sales manager at a large life-insurance firm, but he still keeps that red truck for the times when the Australians (and other people connected with Agape House) call him for transportation. They like him a lot -- so do I -- and he makes really good money driving them around BECAUSE HE CAN SPEAK ENGLISH.

In just the same way, someone who leaves the career of "bar host" behind will find all sorts of doors open to him if he can actually communicate in English. But I don't state or imply that my students work at this job -- even if some do, sticking with the program for 9 or more months shows a real dedication to self-improvement and discipline. But my students also include/have included high-school seniors, college freshmen, etc. etc. Anyone with enough brain to realize that free English lessons are a very rare opportunity in Thailand.

If you would like me to discuss my approach to teaching English conversation, I'd be happy to oblige.

I notice that someone else put "teaching English" in quotation marks, as if I were really doing something else, or was incapable of teaching English. As if they knew me, or had seen my resume -- or knew anything about the subject themselves.

Digression: at a party, I once met a newly-arrived farang who had decided to teach English himself. The key to his brand-new method was to ignore teaching vocabulary ("300 words is enough") and forget about grammar, because COMMUNICATION WAS THE KEY THING. I'll let other people analyze the weak points in his plot, but here's a hint: most linguists regard language as a result of syntax + vocabulary.

Finally, I really want to say that "risking your life along the border" is not really a necessary part of helping people. I am currently working on a plan to get more involved (with orphanages, etc.) near the Burmese border, but I'm plenty busy now.

Henry is intense about the Shan people and has a tendency to emote and dramatize the plight of these people.

Still, a voice in the dark is always needed at times, to remind us of the broader issues in the country and widen
our collective horizons, if only a little bit.

You mean "remind us" that some of those riding motorbikes illegally (no licence, etc) are unfortunate enough to actually be fined, while he boasts that he can get away with it, ride without a helmet, etc?

You mean "remind us" that the same people are unfortunate enough to be detained and fined when crossing the border using an ID card "modified" with correcting fluid, etc, etc?

You mean "intense" in teaching English to those "students" who, as he put it, "come all over (his) face"?

I have no doubt that the Shan need help, as do many other groups in many countries; whether HC is actually helping anyone except himself is a different matter entirely.