a disturbing arrest in Singapore...it could be you

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

If anyone has ever watched the Australian ABC cable channel in Thailand they may have seen their chief Asian reporter Peter Lloyd-one of the most respected correspondents , who has been arrested on drugs charges. This is a scenario that could easily happen in Thailand-and my view is once charged-you will always be found guilty in a Thai, Singapore. Malaysian or Indonesian court.

There is much muttering amongst journalistic circles-that Lloyd may have been set up or a Singapore national who he spent the night with and who dobbed him in for a lesser charge. Lloyd has only recently come out as gay after splitting with his wife ( he has 2 young sons). Although Peter is out on bail-extra charges of drug trafficking have been added ( which sounds highly suspicious-Lloyd would be extremely well paid by the ABC). It highlights how careful gay farangs must always be.

The last Australian charged with drug trafficking in Singapore -Nguyen Tuong Van, 25, of Vietnamese descent, ( who was actually taking drugs out of Singapore) was hanged at Changi prison in 2005.

Anyone who has met Lloyd ( me being one) knows he is a man of high integrity-I find the idea of him taking any sort of drugs preposterous.


Accused reporter Peter Lloyd steps out in publicBy Lisa Davies in Singapore
July 25, 2008 01:54am

SHUFFLING down a dim wooden staircase towards a Singapore street yesterday, ABC journalist Peter Lloyd looked a broken man.

In his first appearance in public since his arrest last week, there was no evidence of the ebullient on-air persona that Aunty's viewers know so well.

In its place was the bleak stare of a man mired in uncertainty.

The 41-year-old, who is accused of possessing and supplying the drug ice, stared with empty eyes that betrayed no emotion as he emerged into the stifling tropical heat.

He carefully walked the few metres to a hire car, seemingly oblivious to the waiting cameras and the questions from his media colleagues.

If he had answers, he was not going to reveal them.

Looking gaunt and tired, the pressure of the past week was etched on his face.

His clothes and casual shoes resembled the crumpled attire of a backpacker rather than an experienced reporter at the peak of his career.

In his first appearance in public since his arrest last week, Lloyd was only in front of the cameras for a matter of seconds, but his stare remained constant and focused.

As one of the ABC's most respected foreign correspondents, with years of reporting in Asia and the Middle East, he knows only too well the seriousness of his predicament.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24 ... 01,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24074924-401,00.html)

There is much muttering amongst journalistic circles-that Lloyd may have been set up or a Singapore national who he spent the night with and who dobbed him in for a lesser charge.

Based on "mutterings", sounds like you've already pronounced him innocent and accused someone of framing him.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that he may actually be guilty as charged?

[Brad the Impala]

Not quite sure why you think that being arrested for possession of drugs et al in Singapore is any more likely to happen to us than anyone else?

Because we are gay?

Because it is another Asian Country?

Because we are all drug users?!

They haven't finished with him yet. He was up before the court to answer 2 more drugs charges yesterday.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that he may actually be guilty as charged?

Guilty or not, and yes people can surprise, its draconian and barbaric that they will execute someone for a drug offence.

Singapore bears only the lightest veneer of a cultured government ruled by the rule of law, underneath they are a bunch of cracked despots that rule with an iron fist denying the population even basic human rights.

Of course i feel for this man. Why is he not healthy clean and presentable? He can be contrite but it sounds like they have made his life a living hell.

Behind closed doors Singapore is a living hell for anyone unfortunate enough or even silly enough to get embroiled. The authority police and government are no more than uneducated third world thugs.

"Singapore bears only the lightest veneer of a cultured government ruled by the rule of law, underneath they are a bunch of cracked despots that rule with an iron fist denying the population even basic human rights."

You are right Cedric. I know, I live in Singapore.

[Wesley]

hello Cedrik

lol

any way, I have friends on msn who are from there and say the same thing you do, some are scared to even day anything on messenger for fear someone will find out what they say, they type on the computer late at night and with shades down. paranoid is the name for it I believe.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Not quite sure why you think that being arrested for possession of drugs et al in Singapore is any more likely to happen to us than anyone else?

Because we are gay?

Because it is another Asian Country?

Because we are all drug users?!

a reasonable question which I'll answer..yes because you are gay and in an Asian country is certainly a reason for the necessity to be more on your guard-then say, a married heterosexual couple.

Anyone who knows of the many innocent ( as opposed to genuinely guilty) farangs who have been set up in Pattaya alone ( I know of 3 who have had to buy there way out of scams) would understand. And that includes a member of the many gay Thai forums who had to quickly leave Pattaya recently after an accusation. He was lucky to be able to flee before arrest.

Chao Na.. the chances of him being guilty are simply ridiculous and that is why his TV network has pulled out all stops to give him the aid he needs. The idea of Lloyd using or selling "ice" is utterly ludicrous to anyone who knows him ( as I do).

Not only is he highly paid ( why would he need to sell small amounts of drugs.. pocket money ?). Lloyd is a correspondent for Australia's largest television network and travels throughout Asia and the Middle East with an unlimited expenses package. He does not take drugs..he barely drinks alcohol.

There are 2 possibilities here (1). he has upset someone powerful in a TV report or (2) Lloyd recently faced up to the fact that he was gay..extraordinary as it may seem-he only came out of the closet recently ( including admitting to himself ). At the age of about 39 he began to have his first gay encounters-it means he is fairly un-experienced in a world we have all become used to in our lifetimes. In that respect he would be naive to just how ruthless some young gay men can be.

However- anyone is free to ignore the great hypocrisy that runs throughout Asia and and endemic corruption from the very top to the person in the street. It's sad but it's a fact of life. The current mania for Asian countries including Singapore ,Indonesia and Thailand and their anti-drug drives must be considered the biggest joke when those countries Army Generals are at the very top of the trade.

forewarned is fore armed !!

or has everyone simply been dozing off while the drama of Kevin Quill's shattered life has crumbled..or ever read the Bali judges ruling in a recent drugs trial where one judge said-"we don't find people innocent in this court-they're here because they are guilty".

Chao Na ... the chances of him being guilty are simply ridiculous[/i]The Lad can't help himself - sucking up to Asians in authority is a compulsion for him

There are 2 possibilities here (1). he has upset someone powerful in a TV report or (2) Lloyd recently faced up to the fact that he was gay..extraordinary as it may seem-he only came out of the closet recently ( including admitting to himself ). At the age of about 39 he began to have his first gay encounters-it means he is fairly un-experienced in a world we have all become used to in our lifetimes. In that respect he would be naive to just how ruthless some young gay men can be.



Make that 3 possibilities

(3) we didn't know him as well as we thought we did, and he was either an ice user, seller, or both.

Anyway, that's for the courts to decide.

Chao Na ... the chances of him being guilty are simply ridiculous[/i]The Lad can't help himself - sucking up to Asians in authority is a compulsion for him

I have never, ever "sucked up" to an authority -- regardless of their race (still trying to figure out why sucking up to a caucasian authority might be any different to sucking up to an Asian one).

As for sucking compulsions, just witness homintern on a Sunday afternoon, in his baseball cap (trying in vain to cover up his veiny grey scalp) on his knees "sucking up to" Asians at the Phaholyothin Theater. Video to come.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":1nkefkeb]

There are 2 possibilities here (1). he has upset someone powerful in a TV report or (2) Lloyd recently faced up to the fact that he was gay..extraordinary as it may seem-he only came out of the closet recently ( including admitting to himself ). At the age of about 39 he began to have his first gay encounters-it means he is fairly un-experienced in a world we have all become used to in our lifetimes. In that respect he would be naive to just how ruthless some young gay men can be.



Make that 3 possibilities

(3) we didn't know him as well as we thought we did, and he was either an ice user, seller, or both.

Anyway, that's for the courts to decide.[/quote:1nkefkeb]

and the (4th) possibility is that you are just a ratbag.

I know him so that's good enough for me and hundreds of others.

Your faith in the Singapore courts is admirable but if you have such faith at least abide by the fucking principal; that a person is innocent unless proved guilty.

[Aunty]

As for sucking compulsions, just witness homintern on a Sunday afternoon, in his baseball cap (trying in vain to cover up his veiny grey scalp) on his knees "sucking up to" Asians at the Phaholyothin Theater. Video to come.

Oh no, please, I beg you. Spare us from such foul indignities. (Is she too cheap to off them from a bar?)

[Aunty]

I fear your friend, lunchtime, may have been set up because he's either upset someone or he's discovered something unflattering about a high ranking Singaporean official. Forcing individuals through the justice system is the method of choice of the ruling elite of Singapore in silencing and destroying its critics.

Because of its lack of transparent government and its lack of respect for gays, (while pretending the opposite) I can't stomach the place and refuse to go there unless its for a few hours, in transit, at Changi.

Boycott Singapore!

I know him so that's good enough for me and hundreds of others.



Perhaps, but you're not the judge, are you? Why don't you fly down to Singapore and tell them that you are 100% sure he is innocent because you know him. I'm sure they'll toss out what evidence they have and everyone can go home. At least, it will give them all a good chuckle.



at least abide by the fucking principal; that a person is innocent unless proved guilty



The "fucking principal"? I think I saw that guy arrested on CNN.

As for "innocent until proven guilty"...what part of my statement that "it's up to the courts to decide" didn't you understand?

[Wesley]

[quote="Lunchtime O'Booze":lx7ijuo1]
I know him so that's good enough for me and hundreds of others.


As for "innocent until proven guilty"...what part of my statement that "it's up to the courts to decide" didn't you understand?[/quote:lx7ijuo1]

I have lived in Asian countries long enough to know if you are a foreigner, the court system is not the best place to find justice. If you can't settle it with the embassy your screwed.

Wes

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

oh why do I feel a Boygenius moment coming on ? :sad1:

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Jailed journalist vows he wont fleeJuly 27, 2008 01:50am

ABC foreign correspondent Peter Lloyd has vowed to stay in Singapore to face drug charges that could put him in jail for 20 years.

While there have been calls for him to run, Lloyd, 41, has told The Sun-Herald: "I've never ever considered attempting to flee. I will remain in Singapore.''

In his first interview since being charged with trafficking and possessing drugs, he revealed he had been suffering traumatic flashbacks and nightmares after covering the region's tragedies, such as the Bali bombings and the tsunami.

These had left him too afraid to sleep, a phobia which peaked in the two months leading up to his July 16 arrest, he said.

Lloyd - who separated from wife Kirsty McIvor six months ago and declared himself gay - faces a maximum sentence of 20 years and 15 strokes of the rattan cane for allegedly selling 0.15 grams of ice for $A76 to a Singaporean man at the York Hotel on July 9.

Police also allegedly found 0.41 grams of the methamphetamine on him, along with utensils bearing traces of ice and the veterinary drug Special K, when he was arrested at Mount Elizabeth Hospital a week later.

He was based in New Delhi but was in Singapore to seek treatment for an eye infection.
Yesterday he said he did not have a wild or risk-taking personality and the infection was "in no way connected with drugs''.

Lloyd's partner, Malay-Singaporean Mohamed Mazlee bin Abdul Malik, posted $S60,000 ($45,000) bail for him to walk free on Wednesday. During Lloyd's next court appearance, on Friday, Mr Malik appeared upset, clutching the hand of Lloyd's sister, Cathy Mulcahy.

Lloyd - who is yet to enter a plea - is due back in court next Friday.

Lloyd has been the ABC South Asia correspondent since mid-2002, based in Bangkok before moving to New Delhi in 2006.

Lloyd said he had covered many tragedies - spending days among piled bodies in a Bali mortuary after the October 2002 bombings; interviewing a woman whose Down syndrome son was swept away in the 2004 Asian tsunami; and returning to the mortuary after last October's bombings in Karachi, Pakistan, which he considered a "second Bali''.

The Sun-Herald revealed that Lloyd has signed up a former leading Singapore prosecutor, Hamidul Haq, to his defence team.

Mr Haq successfully prosecuted Singapore's first case involving recreational drugs in 2000 when local actor Michelle Low Lin Lin was jailed for 18 months for possessing cocaine at a nightclub.

A legal source said prosecutors were "scraping the bottom of the barrel'' to find new charges to make an example of Lloyd.

"Recreational drugs are not accepted and anything to do with it (the Singapore government) will come down like a ton of bricks,'' the source said.

Some commentators have suggested Lloyd should jump bail and run. The legal source said if he did he would never be able to return to Australia due to an extradition agreement between the countries.

"If I were to jump, I would not go to a country with a treaty. I should go to Indonesia or Thailand. I have seen some people do it,'' he said.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/i-was- ... 03325.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/i-was-too-afraid-to-sleep/2008/07/26/1216492803325.html)

I think Bali is different to Singapore, only in respect to the quality of the inmates. Bali prisons are pepperd with very dumb Australian tourists who genuinely believed risking their entire lives to take some large quantities of pot on holiday to Bali would be a very cool thing to do. They suddenly get a very rude awakening the other side when they realise that despite coming from the "lucky country" they are well and truly fucked, and no one gives a damn.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Bali is certainly different to the paradise it once was.

When I first went there over 30 years ago it was a genuine paradise that made Pattaya pale in comparison. The people were a joy. That has changed since the Indonesian authorities have enforced their presence more and more. One mistake most people make is believing that the ( genuine) Balinese are Muslims-they are Hindus and therefore have a much more relaxed view of the world-or at least they did.

Despite it's democratic claims-I believe there is no more corrupt country on this planet than Indonesia-those in the top few rungs of the economic ladder are the most untrustworthy people to do business with ( as opposed to the vast majority of the poor who remain nice people).

It has turned into a pretty awful holiday spot for drunken Brits and Aussies..although when you get out of the main areas it is still an awesome island.

As to the jails and law enforcement..Indonesia has also introduced their unique form of corruption.

I just ran into the father of a fairly famous Aussie "celebrity" just this week. He spent 3 years in a Bali jail and eventually bought his freedom for $30K-as did his partner who both grew marijuana on their farm.

He could have been given 20 years like the infamous Corby woman whose "crime" was similar but being very working class Australian didn't quite know how to play the game unlike the Aussie model who was busted with the son of an important Indonesian government minister. Her immensely rich boyfriend's family forked out up to $200K to secure her freedom ( after she converted to the Islamic religion). The government ministers son, who supplied her with the exstacy pill, was escorted to safety with a large police escort.

One advantage to being in a Bali jail is that you can buy days out of your cell for a price and do a little shopping around town.

(needless to say-the governor of the Bali jail housing Ms Corby was busted recently for drug running-obviously upset someone important)

Singapore is different. Being a westerner I can't condemn nor condone practises in other countries-just be aware of differing values.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

An Asian comes to the aid of a farang !

Peter Lloyd's Malysian Singaporean lover Mazlee bin Abdul Malik has come to his boyfriend's aid by putting up the $45,000 surety that was needed so Peter could get bail. Bail had to come from a Singapore national-it had to be his own money and he had to swear on the Koran that this was true.

Very brave as he has "outed" himself in a country where homesexuality is illegal...although they say they are just "good friends".

It also points it the bizarre nature of the charge-that Lloyd would actually be a small time drug dealer selling something worth around $70 when he is not only paid a huge salary but has a wealthy lover.

If he has half a brain in his head he'll jump bail and flee Singapore in a bumboat, never to return.

... he is not only paid a huge salary but has a wealthy lover.I've always wanted to be a kept man myself but I've never found a rich 18-yo willing to take me on. Still, thanks to another poster's quotes I note The Lad has a few tips on ripping off employers; perhaps I should Unignore him after all. Hang on a minute, I AM an employer. Oh well, nice thought while it lasted

Bali is certainly different to the paradise it once was.

.

I don't think by much, its still heavenly. Though I've never spent a night in Kuta in my life, but even still. The fact that they are Hindi and are very creative souls makes a big difference to the rest of Indonesia. The police are all corrupt yes, what do you expect in this part of the world.

If he has half a brain in his head he'll jump bail and flee Singapore in a bumboat, never to return.

Heading for Malaysia? Oh yea sure, that will be like the proverbial jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

well yes he is Australian and one of the most highly respected foreign correspondents. He has already said he wouldn't skip bail-even though he could come to Thailand which has no extradition treaty.

But you are correct-he could not return to Australia as they do have an arrangement with Singapore.

I reckon there will be some heavy diplomatic negotiations going on behind the scenes with this case-difficult, as Singapore cannot lose face. The selling drugs charges are plainly rediculous but he may have tried "ice"-who knows what happens when someone discovers they are gay at 35 !

I predict-most charges will be dropped except drug possession -he will get a few months jail time and then deported. Sad if his reporting career is finished though-his contacts throughout the Middle East are extensive and he is one of the few who is trusted by the "other side"-much like the famous Robert Fisk.

So, he's gone from being pure as driven snow to now being "possibly" a drug user. Reality is gradually sinking in.

I've been waiting to see O'Booze wake up from a long post-prandial slumber and add Michael Backman's recent excellent column on Singapore to the debate. However it falls, once again, to me (sigh)

Uniqueness of perfection that sits to our north
The Age
July 17, 2008

A REPORT released last week, Prosperity versus Individual Rights? Human Rights, Democracy and the Rule of Law in Singapore, published by the International Bar Association, provides a fair and balanced account of how Singapore's Government really operates. It lists 18 recommendations for Singapore to strengthen its rule of law and to better promote a civil society. They are all reasonable, as is the analysis on which they are based.

But of course the Singapore Government doesn't think so. Even though the IBA provided the Singapore Government with a draft of the report, allowed it to comment and then inserted the Government's views in the final report, the Government still managed to diss the report by the end of last week, just as it disses everything remotely critical. Singapore's Government is unique among governments around the world: it doesn't need advice.

The report chronicles how human rights are constrained by the Singapore Government and how freedom of speech is in the hands of the police. It lists the media restrictions that ensure the media does not monitor the Government but is more its mouthpiece.

It describes the restrictions on the right to assemble. One bizarre practice highlighted is the constitutional requirement for members of parliament to resign if expelled from their elective party, thereby ensuring that elected members do only what their party rather than their constituents or even their conscience tells them. Another aspect mentioned is the cowing of the Singapore Law Society so that even this channel for independent comment on laws and proposed laws has been neutered. Many questions about the independence of the judiciary are raised too.

Singapore's Ministry of Law described the report's observation that Singapore's judges seemed professional in commercial cases but exhibited bias in cases involving Government ministers as "absurd" and "unsubstantiated". In actual fact, the 77-page report makes a very good case for bias. It is the ministry's rebuttal that lacks substantiation.

The report chronicles how defamation actions brought against opposition figures by Government ministers have bankrupted them, thus rendering them ineligible to sit in Parliament. That undischarged bankrupts should not sit in Parliament is not the issue. The Australian constitution has a similar provision. What is problematic is how defamation actions seem to be used specifically to target opposition figures to bankrupt them to ensure they then cannot sit in Parliament.

Of course, opposition figures in Singapore must be guarded in their public utterances as they well know the consequences of a slip-up. But the trouble is, when opposition figures give the ruling PAP (party) an inch in this regard, the PAP leaders gleefully grab a mile. Ministers lack the generosity of spirit that government politicians exhibit in other modern countries in this regard. In local parlance, they have shown themselves to be "kiasu" (literally, afraid to lose).

Examples abound. Former attorney-general Francis Seow cites in his book Beyond Suspicion? The Singapore Judiciary (2006) Devan Nair, a former president of Singapore. Nair describes how Lee Kuan Yew fumed after opposition figure J.B. Jeyaratnam had been returned to Parliament in the 1981 elections. "I will make him crawl on his bended knees and beg for mercy," Lee is purported to have said.

Race-based riots тАФ 58 and 44 years ago тАФ are used to justify many of the Government's controls, when in fact Singaporeans today have been gutted of passion. They have been supplanted by consumerism and materialism тАФ safe refuges in the face of a Government intolerant of dissent. Today, the only thing likely to lead to anything approaching a riot is a half-price sale for Chanel handbags.

The report says Singapore's economic development is impressive but it's not unique. Australia has six Singapores dotted around its coasts. Each of these cities has been built without the media and political restrictions that Singapore's Government feels are needed even though each Australian city has a population far more ethnically diverse than Singapore's.

Singapore's leaders like to describe their country as a small island with no resources. It magnifies their achievement. But Singapore's economic hinterland are Malaysia and Indonesia тАФ it sits bang in the middle of a sea of resources.

It draws on these resources just as Melbourne draws on the resources of the rest of Victoria.

Perhaps the most important aspect of Singapore's development has been the virtual elimination of corruption. There are those who claim that corruption is integral to Asian culture and therefore unavoidable. Singapore shows such commentators and, more importantly, the rest of Asia, that being Asian is no excuse for corruption.

Time and time again, Singapore's leaders argue that those who want to comment on politics and even policy should form their own political party and stand for election. All others are required to shut up. Singapore's leaders cocoon themselves against challenge and seem affronted by scrutiny. It's as if they haven't done a good job in building Singapore. But they have, and that is the frustration. Why must they act as if they haven't?

As you read through the measured paragraphs of the IBA report, you can almost feel the pleading; the advice to a friend: "you're wealthy, you're educated, you're like us now. Take that final step тАФ join us тАФ the community of civil, prosperous societies. Do it, before you embarrass yourself more." But this friend is too proud to listen.

(26 July): The idea of Lloyd using or selling "ice" is utterly ludicrous to anyone who knows him ( as I do).


(29 July): The selling drugs charges are plainly rediculous but he may have tried "ice"-who knows what happens when someone discovers they are gay at 35 !

What a difference a few days makes! The only valid thing you point out is "who knows" what happens not only when he has just come out and ended his marriage but also has PTS. You appear not to. This type of out of character behaviour, if true, would not be at all unusual for someone with PTS.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

..... Reality is gradually sinking in.

yes it certainly is-about you.

(what the fuck is PTS ?..and why do you bother ?)

"I've been waiting to see O'Booze wake up from a long post-prandial slumber .."

actually I've always regarded Singapore as the most boring and uninteresting place in Asia. The only time I visited with a friend 15 years ago ( who adores the place..but he's virtually a Nazi) he trilled about how deliciously clean it was !. Which is exactly the opposite to what I want in Asia ! . I've never been back and never will.

[Beachlover]

Peter Lloyd has just been freed - early on good behaviour.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 62,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25681704-5015662,00.html)

It was quite amazing the amount of support he received from people around him... they engineered the case very well for a favorable outcome... although there was a lot of substance behind it (good character, well respected, successful career and lots of loved ones etc.). It's amazing the support he received from his family (ex-wife), partner, friends, Australian government and even his employer - ABC.

All the best to him.

[quiet1]

I'm confused about the thread title, which includes "...it could be you."

How could it be one of us, unless we are involved with drugs? I'm not involved in drugs, so how could it be me?

It appears he admits to drug usage. Originally charged with trafficking, he plea bargained his way down to "only" possession and usage. It doesn't look like he was railroaded on trumped-up charges.

[Wesley]

I'm confused about the thread title, which includes "...it could be you."

How could it be one of us, unless we are involved with drugs? I'm not involved in drugs, so how could it be me?

It appears he admits to drug usage. Originally charged with trafficking, he plea bargained his way down to "only" possession and usage. It doesn't look like he was railroaded on trumped-up charges.


From Russia to Central Asia and now SE Asia, I am convinced you need not have any drugs or do them to be charged with possession and worse. Beware how you think. This is not America or GB. I was stopped in the Philippines and searched for no reason other than I was white and going home with a guy from a gay venue. I had some medicine in my jeans. They were getting ready to call the media and back up when my bf told them and showed his credentials as a nurse and that he knew my medicine and if they looked, they would find prescriptions for my meds in my Condo. Believe me the taxi driver said it was a set up and I should get out and take another taxi or we would likely be stopped again. I am sure you do not have to be guilty all you need to be is white and dress as if you are not a street creature

Wes

[quiet1]

Crikey, I need to stop posting before I've had my 3rd cup of coffee for the day. I wrote the post (just two posts above this one) not realizing this was the 3rd page of a thread, and that my not-so-original thought was already addressed by others. Khor tot!