What happens after the arrests we all read about

This is to echo a comment I made on another message board. Constantly in the Pattaya news sources, both internet and press, you read of arrests being made. Details are given of the crimes which effectively smears the person arrested. This happens all the time in Europe and the US, but usually there would be a follow up with court proceedings described and verdict publicised. This gives an innocent person a chance to have this innocence proclaimed, or conversely allows the sentence given to act as a deterrent for the future.
In Pattaya, rarely do you find the press at all willing or able to do this. It might be that press are banned from the court room, or somehow proceedings are otherwise private. I do not know enough to comment on this.
Conspiracy theorists might suggest that the various ways criminals have of 'avoiding the law' might stop the authorities from making everything transparent and reportable.
To sum up, from high profile cases to low, people, both farang and Thai, are sucked into the legal system with great fanfare, but there is very little detail about how they are spewed out the other side.
On the other message board I mentioned at the top, there was a question about whether some of the farangs arrested in the recent Sunee purge had been deported or were still awaiting trial. Somewhere, this must be on public record. I can also remember a couple of years ago some Russians robbed a Pattaya bank and were caught on ship in the bay some time afterwards. I cannot remember reading what happened to them. Also, there was a Thai arrested for killing a russian lady on the Jomtien beach a few months ago. What happened to him. Surely the press would be interested in reporting on his trial. Did this happen or did I miss it?

[Bob]

Lester, accurate observations.
Things will change if/when Thailand ever adopts reasonable rights of freedom of speech and freedom of the press. And, also, when/if they ever get a newspaper that isn't afraid to print the facts (and have somebody fairly competent actually looking for those facts). Not in my lifetime!

Most likely they were taken to the bank where they withdrew about 40,000 baht, shook hands with their police escorts and walked out of the back door of the bank. I have seen this senario played out during a Sunee raid about 3 or 4 years ago. All of the arrested Farang were back out the next day after a visit to the bank. Keep in mind that as long as Thai corruption is unchecked, and big time press, NGOs, and the World Vision types or western governments are not howling for blood there are few problems that can not be solved with cash. Without cash one will be thrown into Thai prisons or thrown to NGOs, World Vision or western government like a bone is thrown to a dog.

Except is the most outrageous of situations you will never see a wealthy Thai arrested for anything. Recently the Bangkok Post had an article about a rich child loosing his temper and running over a number of people. The arrest went nowhere and the boys father was actually quoted in the Post as blamed the folks that were run over, saying that it was their fault because they never should have pissed his sweet child off.

.... This happens all the time in Europe and the US, but usually there would be a follow up with court proceedings described and verdict publicised. This gives an innocent person a chance to have this innocence proclaimed, or conversely allows the sentence given to act as a deterrent for the future.....

Well, not really. Only in the real high profile cases is there a follow up. Most of the arrests in the "police blotter" sections of the paper you never hear any more about. And many times there is a long lag before trials start. There was a big corruption case here in SF 2 years ago that is just now coming to trial. Long enough time for most people to have completely forgotten about it.

My pet peve is all the stories about dead farangs. They always end with "an autopsy is being performed to determine the cause of death" or "the embassy is investigating" but you never again hear any more, unless there is an quick arrest.

Back on the streets the next day after a trip to the ATM?

Sounds like they posted bail and were released pending trial.

[dab69]

... thrown to NGOs, World Vsion...

to be whined to death?

I read someplace that the trial process in many cases is not open to the public and even the verdict and sentence can be kept sealed (not sure if that's the right word?). If so, that would be a significant barrier from any followup in the media.

And, of course, the in-the-front-door-of-the-bank with police escort, and then out-the-back-door-a-free-man case is quite believable.

I thought everyone knew all about this.

Many arrests are fictitious and only made to generate a fat bribe. Then the case disappears. Police know that paeds are a vulnerable lot who are defenceless against this.

Recently a friend of mine was arrested for fucking an 8 year old boy on a beach! About as ridiculous as it is impossible. After paying around 1,000,000 baht he was told the case had been dropped as the police had not provided any evidence. I'm not surprised. There was no evidence.

I thought everyone knew all about this.

Many arrests are fictitious and only made to generate a fat bribe. Then the case disappears. Police know that paeds are a vulnerable lot who are defenceless against this.

Recently a friend of mine was arrested for fucking an 8 year old boy on a beach! About as ridiculous as it is impossible. After paying around 1,000,000 baht he was told the case had been dropped as the police had not provided any evidence. I'm not surprised. There was no evidence.

How often does this happen?
Getting arrested for genuinely doing this is quite right. However, if charges are entirely fabricated to extract large sums of money from innocent tourists, then any of us are vulnerable.

I know of other instances. I can't say how many are fictitious and how many are genuine. After all, there's one hellofa lot of sex conducted in Pattaya.

Let's face it, to have the alternative to a fat bribe of spending 10-20 years in a Thai jail is some incentive. Yes, we are all vulnerable. Only the other day a felang was arrested for supposedly having sex with a 16 year old boy. I believe this is the first occasion.

There are decent Thai police who are mortified at what their peers are doing.

There are decent Thai police who are mortified at what their peers are doing.Both of them are Best Friends of boygeenyus - just ask him he'll tell you

[Utopia]

If you do decide to fight spurious charges in Thailand, expect a drawn-out, uphill battle. I have been waiting over 3 years now for a higher court ruling on an appeal that having a copy of Thai Guys magazine with a picture of a hairy bellybutton (no kidding! that's what the low court judge ruled) was proof of distributing "obscene" materials.

http://www.yawningbread.org/guest_2005/guw-098.htm

http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-435.htm

That's all very well but some guys have to do their waiting in jail.

I know of other countries where the appeal process takes years.

P.S. I hope you are successful.

[catawampuscat]

Rumours around Sunee last nite of a youngish (early 40's) American guy, usually wearing short shorts picked up by police. A regular at the same
beer bar as the baseball capped oldtimer picked up recently and on it goes.. I don't know who he is and can't picture him even thou
I have been know to frequent Sunee Plaza myself, but it is discouraging and I am thinking that the game is over for those who think
they are above the law and are smarter than everyone else.. :idea:

I also understand, from an eyewitness, that the police held a major raid last nite in Sunee and used Good Boys as their pee testing center..
Some boys were taken away by the police.. I did personally witness earlier in the evening many police streaming thru the soi and
entering Krazy Dragon and later most if not all of the boy bars.. It seemed like a good time to leave and we left... :cat:

I am thinking that the game is over for those who think they are above the law and are smarter than everyone else.. :idea: I can assure you I am still at liberty :bounce:

Sunee is bad news now. There are more CCTV cameras there than in England. And pimps abound.

Sunee is bad news now. There are more CCTV cameras there than in England. And pimps abound.But Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture, right?

Recently a friend of mine was arrested for fucking an 8 year old boy on a beach! About as ridiculous as it is impossible. After paying around 1,000,000 baht he was told the case had been dropped as the police had not provided any evidence.

I think "fictitious" and "ridiculous" are appropriate in this case if nothing untoward took place; if this is not the full story, however, then he would seem to have got away cheaply.

Sunee is bad news now. There are more CCTV cameras there than in England.

This is entirely untrue and, even if it were true, it would only be "bad news" for very few people.

I thought everyone knew all about this.

Many arrests are fictitious and only made to generate a fat bribe. Then the case disappears. Police know that paeds are a vulnerable lot who are defenceless against this.

Recently a friend of mine was arrested for fucking an 8 year old boy on a beach! About as ridiculous as it is impossible. After paying around 1,000,000 baht he was told the case had been dropped as the police had not provided any evidence. I'm not surprised. There was no evidence.

How often does this happen?
Getting arrested for genuinely doing this is quite right. However, if charges are entirely fabricated to extract large sums of money from innocent tourists, then any of us are vulnerable.

This happens more than you'd think. One of the guys arrested back in May for illegal boy activities was involved with one of the illegal Burmese immigrants, trying to get him back into school and back to his parents in Rangoon - no sex at all. This 15 year-old boy was smuggled into Thailand to work selling flowers in Bangkok by his older brother - when he received regular beatings for not selling enough, he was taken to Pattaya to earn more money for this scumbag brother's drug habit. This friend of mine, who was keeping this boy out of Sunee, paid for English and Thai lessons and an apartment far from the Plaza. When the brother found out about this, he had one of the 13 year-old street kids in Sunee give this guy's name to the police, and he was arrested and smeared by the police to the awful Pattaya press. The farang has since posted bail, and has gotten this boy back home to his parents while working on his own defense.

The lesson to be learned from this? Anyone is a target, and no good deed goes unpunished. Here, we have someone trying to *help* one of the street kids, and he ends up getting screwed by this awful legal system. He's lost his job and is looking at *years* in prison back home if this matter is not cleared up.

It's important to remember that not every farang you hear about being arrested for kiddy-fiddling is guilty - many are setup for one reason or another, and the police here know that this type of charge is one of the most serious ones to throw at a foreigner.

Another point to ponder - why would any street kid who depends on Sunee paeds for his game and yabba habits give up the names of those who are offing him, when they know the names of other foreigners who never take them?

Sunee is a very dangerous place, and I have not been back since these arrests began back in May - it's not worth the possible anguish.

Very interesting. I know of other instances of good Samaritans being arrested when their intent was totally honourable.

One reason the boys give falang names is because the police pay them to do it. 300 baht is the going sum I gather.

Unfortunately, despite their good intentions, they are breaking a law - maintaining a child if he is under the age of 15.

Paeds of course are fair game. They are helpless to take any action. And the police know this very well.

Sorry but anybody can explain me this Lek Bar (opposite Crazy Pub) in Sunee where all the old daddies sitting with the young boys (10years up) and going with them on toilete backside for a special service. Why this bar is always closed or have no customer and kids anymore before the police is coming to Sunee Plaza? This bar need to be closed and this Lek she need to be in prison because of selling children. Nobody can tell me he is going there because it's so comfortable to sit there. Even my garage looks better. Why she keep everything so dark?

[Beachlover]

This is disturbing that people are getting framed... and you can get arrested just for being there and not doing anything wrong...

How can you minimise your vulnerability to this corruption happening to you? (apart from not going there of course)

Is Sunee Plaza really that dangerous?

Anything to watch out for?

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

[thaiguest]

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Not as simple as that.
From what I can see known 'paedo' bars continue to remain open and how else execpt by way of police suffrance?.
The corrupt cops are very careful not to upset these little earners but target instead farangs who take off non-children -17 year old young men.
For example take the case of the farang who was 'set up' in a guest house on the edge of Sunni by police from Bangkok about 6 weeks ago.
. The farang had actually broken only the law against prostitution (which happens a thousand times a night in Thailand) and no other law because in this case the Burmese/Indian boy was 18yrs and 2months old.
The uniformed bullies stormed up the stairs, into his room and took him forcibly to a room (not a police station) in Bangkok.
They kept him overnight and stood side by side with him at a bank counter next day and received a figure reported variously as 150,000 and 250,000 baht.
They were kind enough to hand him back 3000 baht for food and a taxi back to Bangkok.
The police had something over the boy, probably his not being Thai, so the first falang to take him 'off' was going to be the victim.
I kid you not- many people will know this case well and the boy is now named and pointed out to customers (including me) by many concerned bar owners in Sunni.

Well, then, I think you answered the question. And that answer is there is no guarantee of safety if you hire prostitutes in Thailand. What a pity that the TAT does not take some kind of action to make sure that prostitution is safe for all to enjoy. Oh, well. There are always the beaches and temples.

[Beachlover]

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Man... I've noticed just about everyone of your posts starts or ends in a bitchy, negative, accusatory or critical way... a little sand up the uerethra? lol

[Beachlover]

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Not as simple as that.
From what I can see known 'paedo' bars continue to remain open and how else execpt by way of police suffrance?.
The corrupt cops are very careful not to upset these little earners but target instead farangs who take off non-children -17 year old young men.
For example take the case of the farang who was 'set up' in a guest house on the edge of Sunni by police from Bangkok about 6 weeks ago.
. The farang had actually broken only the law against prostitution (which happens a thousand times a night in Thailand) and no other law because in this case the Burmese/Indian boy was 18yrs and 2months old.
The uniformed bullies stormed up the stairs, into his room and took him forcibly to a room (not a police station) in Bangkok.
They kept him overnight and stood side by side with him at a bank counter next day and received a figure reported variously as 150,000 and 250,000 baht.
They were kind enough to hand him back 3000 baht for food and a taxi back to Bangkok.
The police had something over the boy, probably his not being Thai, so the first falang to take him 'off' was going to be the victim.
I kid you not- many people will know this case well and the boy is now named and pointed out to customers (including me) by many concerned bar owners in Sunni.

that is disturbing indeed...

do the police treat boyztown like this?

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Man... I've noticed just about everyone of your posts starts or ends in a bitchy, negative, accusatory or critical way... a little sand up the uerethra? lol

I prefer to think of it as a needed dash of reality. Enjoy your holiday in Pattaya.

[Beachlover]

[quote="Chao Na":3kxx4muz]Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Man... I've noticed just about everyone of your posts starts or ends in a bitchy, negative, accusatory or critical way... a little sand up the uerethra? lol

I prefer to think of it as a needed dash of reality. Enjoy your holiday in Pattaya.[/quote:3kxx4muz]

Thank you :D

[lonelywombat]

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Not as simple as that.
From what I can see known 'paedo' bars continue to remain open and how else execpt by way of police suffrance?.
The corrupt cops are very careful not to upset these little earners but target instead farangs who take off non-children -17 year old young men.
For example take the case of the farang who was 'set up' in a guest house on the edge of Sunni by police from Bangkok about 6 weeks ago.
. The farang had actually broken only the law against prostitution (which happens a thousand times a night in Thailand) and no other law because in this case the Burmese/Indian boy was 18yrs and 2months old.
The uniformed bullies stormed up the stairs, into his room and took him forcibly to a room (not a police station) in Bangkok.
They kept him overnight and stood side by side with him at a bank counter next day and received a figure reported variously as 150,000 and 250,000 baht.
They were kind enough to hand him back 3000 baht for food and a taxi back to Bangkok.
The police had something over the boy, probably his not being Thai, so the first falang to take him 'off' was going to be the victim.
I kid you not- many people will know this case well and the boy is now named and pointed out to customers (including me) by many concerned bar owners in Sunni.

that is disturbing indeed...

do the police treat boyztown like this?

Was the boy working as a freelance on the beach or in Sunee or in a bar

Ther has been stories about an Indian boy for a much longer time that 6 weeks. is this the same boy

[lonelywombat]

Is it really that difficult for you simply to avoid the pedo bars? There are really only a handful of them that specialize, and you will know it the second you walk in the door and find yourself in a third grade classroom (less the short pants).

Not as simple as that.
From what I can see known 'paedo' bars continue to remain open and how else execpt by way of police suffrance?.
The corrupt cops are very careful not to upset these little earners but target instead farangs who take off non-children -17 year old young men.
For example take the case of the farang who was 'set up' in a guest house on the edge of Sunni by police from Bangkok about 6 weeks ago.
. The farang had actually broken only the law against prostitution (which happens a thousand times a night in Thailand) and no other law because in this case the Burmese/Indian boy was 18yrs and 2months old.
The uniformed bullies stormed up the stairs, into his room and took him forcibly to a room (not a police station) in Bangkok.
They kept him overnight and stood side by side with him at a bank counter next day and received a figure reported variously as 150,000 and 250,000 baht.
They were kind enough to hand him back 3000 baht for food and a taxi back to Bangkok.
The police had something over the boy, probably his not being Thai, so the first falang to take him 'off' was going to be the victim.
I kid you not- many people will know this case well and the boy is now named and pointed out to customers (including me) by many concerned bar owners in Sunni.

that is disturbing indeed...

do the police treat boyztown like this?

Was the boy working as a freelance on the beach or in Sunee or in a bar

Ther has been stories about an Indian boy for a much longer time that 6 weeks. is this the same boy

There has been a group of dark skinned Malayasian/Burmese boys in pattaya for some time now. The younger extremely (14) dark lad is the one that has been caught up with a couple different guys. I am not sure about the 18 yr old.

[yedo111]

I know an indian boy working in Krazy Dragon 1 year ago , he looked like he was 17 then. I never offed him but he was cute. Not the same boy I hope ?

[thaiguest]

I know an indian boy working in Krazy Dragon 1 year ago , he looked like he was 17 then. I never offed him but he was cute. Not the same boy I hope ?
If I may, I will answer the foregoing questions also, together with your query.
To my knowledge this boy never worked in any bar- he's a (polite) street boy.
The boy is at least 6 feet tall and looks every day over 18. He's unmistakably Indian with dark skin and bony facial features.
I now know his name but I won't give it out because he was used and abused in this case. Now, falangs who previously gave him food money, won't even look at him. And I bet he didn't get a satong himself.
It's very unlikely that this would happen in Boytown. Corrupt law enforcement people have ready bait among the street boys of Sunni for all kinds of trumpted-up reasons.
A footnote to the incident; It's reported that the falang victim in question met the boy sometime later and challenged him. All the boy had to say was 'they're coming again soon'.

So for the moment all the fuss about 'paedo bars' has created a new amnesty for child molestors and has opened up for extortion gay men of whatever age who like young men of 17yrs or there-abouts. The proof of this being the case in point and the fact that there are still 'paedo' bars open in Sunnee- not many but the're there.

There's also the other important point; 90% of sexual child abuse in Thailand is carried out on young girls by 'straight' paedophiles but for some reason nobody seems to care about this. Maybe the gay dollar/pound/euro/ is more easily extorted?

Police almost never arrest Thais. And I know of several cases where Thais get a very different jail sentence to falangs.

You are right. There's no interest in the girls.

extortion gay men of whatever age who like young men of 17yrs or there-abouts.

You mean those breaking the law?


90% of sexual child abuse in Thailand is carried out on young girls by 'straight' paedophiles but for some reason nobody seems to care about this. Maybe the gay dollar/pound/euro/ is more easily extorted?

And your proof for this claim is...?

If the "victims" of this extortion prefer to remain anonymous it is difficult to know how any of these allegations could be supported.


Police almost never arrest Thais. And I know of several cases where Thais get a very different jail sentence to falangs.

You are right. There's no interest in the girls.

Total, unadulterated rubbish. There are regular reports of Thais being arrested, charged and sentenced for similar offences, as well as for procurement; most of these appear in the Thai press rather than the farang papers as these generally consider farangs to be of more interest to other farangs; there have also been a number of reports in the local (farang) press of arrests for sexual offences with under age girls.

Well, I can't read Thai so what's reported in their papers is missed by me.

But I know of at least 3 cases where Thais got a very much smaller sentence than falangs for the same crime. These were not in Pattaya.

Police almost never arrest Thais. And I know of several cases where Thais get a very different jail sentence to falangs.As you say, Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture :bounce:

Police almost never arrest Thais. And I know of several cases where Thais get a very different jail sentence to falangs.As you say, Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture :bounce:

Is this guy a broken record, or what?

Note his title: Fruitcake of all fruitcakes.

Note his title: Fruitcake of all fruitcakes.I'm always happy to remind posters of some of the more stupid things they've said in previous posts - yours is "Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture"

[thaiguest]

[quote=thaiguest] extortion gay men of whatever age who like young men of 17yrs or there-abouts.

You mean those breaking the law?


90% of sexual child abuse in Thailand is carried out on young girls by 'straight' paedophiles but for some reason nobody seems to care about this. Maybe the gay dollar/pound/euro/ is more easily extorted?

And your proof for this claim is...?

If the "victims" of this extortion prefer to remain anonymous it is difficult to know how any of these allegations could be supported.


Police almost never arrest Thais. And I know of several cases where Thais get a very different jail sentence to falangs.

You are right. There's no interest in the girls.

Total, unadulterated rubbish. There are regular reports of Thais being arrested, charged and sentenced for similar offences, as well as for procurement; most of these appear in the Thai press rather than the farang papers as these generally consider farangs to be of more interest to other farangs; there have also been a number of reports in the local (farang) press of arrests for sexual offences with under age girls.[/quote:1xc9hevk]

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.
2. Gays make up 10% or thereabouts of the population.. Do the sums yourself. Maybe you're one of those gays who feels proportionately more perverted than your straight friends.
3. You've made the claim before that abuse of girls gets fair coverage in the press and equal attention from the police, as that of boys. I don't believe you. (It should in fact, if fairly done, get 10 times more.)
4. Yes, we all know that victims of extortion who don't come forward don't help the cause of clarity. Tell us something new.

Here's a story on the topic from India.


Two Britons jailed in India for sexually abusing boys at a children's shelter have been cleared on appeal.



Full story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7522070.stm)on the BBC

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.


Er, what law would they be breaking? Only the selling of sex is illegal in Thailand -- the law says nothing about buying that I'm aware of. But perhaps you know more?

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.

Chao Na, you beat me to it. The fallacy that there is any law against purchasing (rather than selling) sex in Thailand is one repeated so often that some of the experts here start to believe it themselves.


2. Gays make up 10% or thereabouts of the population.. Do the sums yourself. Maybe you're one of those gays who feels proportionately more perverted than your straight friends.

I always believed it was one in seven, nearer 15%, but I seldom pay much attention to unsubstantiated figures.


3. You've made the claim before that abuse of girls gets fair coverage in the press and equal attention from the police, as that of boys. I don't believe you. (It should in fact, if fairly done, get 10 times more.)

I have never said "fair coverage in the press" or "equal attention from the police" (regarding boys vs girls pedophilia) so there is nothing to believe or disbelieve, unless you think that the view that "Police almost never arrest Thais" and "There's no interest in the girls" is correct. You appear to be one of a number who say that I have said something I evidently have not simply so they can disagree with me.


4. Yes, we all know that victims of extortion who don't come forward don't help the cause of clarity. Tell us something new.

Apparently Dek Wat doesn't, nor apparently does he know that in almost every country (except those having mandatory sentences) sentences vary enormously for what appears to be "the same crime", so comparisons are pointless unless you know all the circumstances and all the evidence produced in court. Maybe he does, but somehow I doubt it as court transcripts are only produced (if produced at all) in Thai.


أحْمَق خدا حاف

It is a fact that sexual statistics are notoriously unreliable. Such as the percentage of gays. My figure is 5% but I won't bet on it. What's the percentage of paeds? I have no idea.

Variation in sexual matters and punishment vary hugely between countries. And within a country. Just consider the range of the AofC. Or attitudes to child porn. An American was given 150 years for this crime. Recently an Australian was given 5 months.

One thing I can safely say is that just what the laws are in Thailand are not properly known or understood, judging by the responses here. I don't claim to know them. Neither do we ever find out the result of court cases for either falangs or Thais.

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.

Chao Na, you beat me to it. The fallacy that there is any law against purchasing (rather than selling) sex in Thailand is one repeated so often that some of the experts here start to believe it themselves.


Perhaps then you could comment on these sections from the current Thai Law.


Section 9 Whoever procures, seduces, or takes away another person to commit
the act of prostitution, even with consent of such person, irrespective of whether the various
acts which constitute the offence are committed inside or outside the Kingdom, shall be
punished with imprisonment of one to ten years and a fine of twenty thousand to two
hundred thousand baht.

This section then goes on to expand the punishments if the prostitue is "under age", but the above is the basic ir starting point for anyone


Section 6 Whoever congregates with another person in a prostitution
establishment for the benefit of prostitution of that person or of another person shall be
punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month, or a fine not exceeding one thousand
baht, or both.


Section 5 Whoever, for the purpose of prostitution, offers, solicits, introduces
oneself to, follows, or importunes another person on a street, in a public place, or any other
place and such act is overtly and shamelessly committed or causes nuisance to the public,
shall be punished with a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.


Those sections lead me to believe that both the buyer and seller are breaking the law.

And there is also a catch for those going to places where boys can be offed.



Section 6 Whoever congregates with another person in a prostitution
establishment for the benefit of prostitution of that person or of another person shall be
punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month, or a fine not exceeding one thousand
baht, or both.

and just in case you were wondering


тАЬProstitution EstablishmentтАЭ means the place or premises arranged for prostitution
or allowed for prostitution, and shall include the place used for making contact or procuring
another person for prostitution;

Most interesting. But one thing lacking from the above is any mention of age or the sex of the person(s)

[Aunty]

Darlings I know itтАЩs terribly difficult isnтАЩt it. Pedo bars, underage boys, fake ID, police stings, street kid set-ups, all ready and willing to entrap you and spoil your lovely holiday. I mean what is the average innocent gay sex tourist to Sunee Plaza to do???

Well darlings, donтАЩt you worry. I have the answer to your dreams, an end to your nightmare, and the cessation of all your fears. ItтАЩs Grandpa-A-GoGo!!!

You think the sex shows in Bangkok are good, well just you wait and see what our boys can do with half a leg up and a zimmer frame!

Most interesting. But one thing lacking from the above is any mention of age or the sex of the person(s)


If you read the actual act that I quoted, you will find that the sections I quoted are applicable to all ages and sexes.

However, in a couple of places the penalties are incresed for those I quoted for situations where the prostitue is over 15 but under 18, and under 15

ES did have a link somewhere to a copy of the complete act, but I can't find it right now.

Section 5 above seems to only apply if sex occurs in a public place! And a fine of 1000 baht doesn't seem to be too onerous.

It also strikes me that the emphasis in the above apply to prostitution. So two people getting together, neither of whom are pros would I presume be tolerated.

Section 5 above seems to only apply if sex occurs in a public place! And a fine of 1000 baht doesn't seem to be too onerous.

It also strikes me that the emphasis in the above apply to prostitution. So two people getting together, neither of whom are pros would I presume be tolerated.

Why don't you read before you type. It says a public or any other place.

The whole act is titled
PROSTITUTION PREVENTION AND SUPPRESSION ACT, so yes, the flash of understanding which struck you would be reasonable.

Strangely, I did read it all. Note that it says: or any other place and such act is overtly and shamelessly committed or causes nuisance to the public ... To me that means public.

The second part of my post was raising the issue of consenting adults etc. A reasonable issue to raise I feel.

[Aunty]

Strangely, I did read it all. Note that it says: or any other place and such act is overtly and shamelessly committed or causes nuisance to the public ... To me that means public.

The second part of my post was raising the issue of consenting adults etc. A reasonable issue to raise I feel.

Well it does say or, and not and, so it wouldn't have to be in public. But then again I'm not a lawyer!

[thaiguest]

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.


Er, what law would they be breaking? Only the selling of sex is illegal in Thailand -- the law says nothing about buying that I'm aware of. But perhaps you know more?

I know that prostitution is illegal in thailand. While you're amusing youself with purile semantics even the selling alone is causing a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout.

[thaiguest]

1. 'Those breaking the law' include every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age. It sure makes for a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone.

Chao Na, you beat me to it. The fallacy that there is any law against purchasing (rather than selling) sex in Thailand is one repeated so often that some of the experts here start to believe it themselves.


2. Gays make up 10% or thereabouts of the population.. Do the sums yourself. Maybe you're one of those gays who feels proportionately more perverted than your straight friends.

I always believed it was one in seven, nearer 15%, but I seldom pay much attention to unsubstantiated figures.


3. You've made the claim before that abuse of girls gets fair coverage in the press and equal attention from the police, as that of boys. I don't believe you. (It should in fact, if fairly done, get 10 times more.)

I have never said "fair coverage in the press" or "equal attention from the police" (regarding boys vs girls pedophilia) so there is nothing to believe or disbelieve, unless you think that the view that "Police almost never arrest Thais" and "There's no interest in the girls" is correct. You appear to be one of a number who say that I have said something I evidently have not simply so they can disagree with me.


4. Yes, we all know that victims of extortion who don't come forward don't help the cause of clarity. Tell us something new.

Apparently Dek Wat doesn't, nor apparently does he know that in almost every country (except those having mandatory sentences) sentences vary enormously for what appears to be "the same crime", so comparisons are pointless unless you know all the circumstances and all the evidence produced in court. Maybe he does, but somehow I doubt it as court transcripts are only produced (if produced at all) in Thai.
You've given no statistics youself re. police re. press coverage so you're speculating and not substantiating.


أحْمَق خدا حاف

Section 5 above seems to only apply if sex occurs in a public place! And a fine of 1000 baht doesn't seem to be too onerous. It also strikes me that the emphasis in the above apply to prostitution. So two people getting together, neither of whom are pros would I presume be tolerated.Gay sex is defined in Thai law as prostitution - and remember, according to Dek Wat Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture

Gay sex is defined in Thai law as prostitution

Perhaps someone will be kind enough to ask hummingturd for a reference to back up this patently ludicrous statement. He has me on ignore, because he clearly fears people of superior intellect.

Gay sex is defined in Thai law as prostitution[/quote]

This is a remarkable thing to say. Back it up if you will. Or withdraw it.

Gay sex is defined in Thai law as prostitutionThis is a remarkable thing to say. Back it up if you will. Or withdraw it.And you are? Prostitution is defined as giving gratification through promiscuous sex. No money needs change hands

Where does it say that gay sex = promiscuous sex = prostitution? Hummingturd is so full of shit.

Gay sex is defined in Thai law as prostitutionThis is a remarkable thing to say. Back it up if you will. Or withdraw it.And you are? Prostitution is defined as giving gratification through promiscuous sex. No money needs change hands

I hesitate to point out the error of Homi's ways; others are usually much better at it. In this case , however, he has it wrong. His half a quote gives the wrong impression.

Here is the official definition of prostitution:

тАЬProstitutionтАЭ means the acceptance of sexual intercourse, the acceptance of any other act, or the commission of any other act for sexual gratification of another person in a promiscuous manner for remuneration or any other benefit, irrespective of whether the person who accepts such act and the person who commits such act are of the same or opposite sex

You will see from that complete quote that the definition is meant to apply equally to same or opposite sex acts, and that remuneration or other benefit is involved.

You will see from that complete quote that the definition is meant to apply equally to same or opposite sex acts, and that remuneration or other benefit is involved.Like much else in Thailand the wording of the law is only half the story. The section is generally interpreted to define homosexual acts to be acts of prostitution where a Thai and a foreigner are involved - "remuneration or other benefit" is irrelevant. Hence the age of consent for all practical purposes is 18 where a Thai male and a non-Thai male are involved because such homosexual acts are acts of prostitution; where two Thai males are involved the general age of consent (15) applies. One law for the Thais, one law for everyone else. But as we know, Thailand has nothing to learn from Western culture (Dek Wat). I'd be very happy for Dek Wat and his chums to test this law - indeed, I look forward to it

It's also the basis for workers in go-go bars being at least 18. Other laws regulate the minimum age of customers (20), leading to the inconsistency that an off-duty go-go boy may not to a go-go bar as a customer. This equally applies to an 18-year-old go-go boy in one bar being "offed" by a customer and taken to a second bar by that customer before going back to the customer's room. If the second bar (or the disco) chooses to enforce the law, the boy will be denied entry

Such inconsistencies do divert me, I own, and I'm happy to call Thailand the Land of Wry Smiles

This thread has run its course as postings are way of topic.

This thread has run its course as postings are way of topic.luvthai has become a Moderator. Thanks, Elephantspike

Perhaps then you could comment on these sections from the current Thai Law.

Gwm4asian,

You asked, perfectly reasonably, for my comments on the sections you quoted from the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996, so I will try to respond in similar vein.

Firstly, however, a few points which should be noted before reading this Act and assuming that it is the only "current Thai law" relating to prostitution.

The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 is known as the Child Protection Act, since this is how it was described when it was being passed through Parliament; the pre-amble to the Act makes the aim clear: "Safeguarding the welfare of Thai women and children is a national priority for the Government of Thailand. Of particular concern to the Royal Thai Government is the exploitation of children for the purpose of commercial sex. Young girls and boys too often are lured or forced into working in brothels and other sexually oriented establishments by profiteers."

The 1996 Act repealed the Prostitution Suppression Act of 1960, which specifically only penalised prostitutes not customers, but not the Entertainment Places Act of 1966, often known as the R&R Treaty for obvious reasons. The Entertainment Places Act is still in effect and it effectively excludes all bars, gogo's, massage parlours, nightclubs, coffee shops, tea houses, barber shops, etc, etc, from the definition of prostitution establishments and makes it legal for them to offer "special services" (which it does not define). While "brothels" are illegal, under the terms of the Act anywhere which offers any additional form of service or "entertainment", such as dancing, drinks, massage, etc, are explicitly not brothels and those working there not prostitutes.

This explains why those "rounded up" by the Police and charged under the 1996 P & SP Act are invariably freelancers or off-duty bar-workers outside the bars or customers in brothels which are generally only found "up-country" and generally only Thai, not Farang, and also why the law has such limited application.

My comments, as requested (I have edited the sections by underlining key phrases):


Section 9 Whoever procures, seduces, or takes away another person to commit the act of prostitution, even with consent of such person, irrespective of whether the various acts which constitute the offence are committed inside or outside the Kingdom, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years and a fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht.

....the above is the basic starting point for anyone

Actually not "anyone". It refers to procurement for prostitution, which is why it is used regularly against pimps, procurers, brothel owners, etc, not "anyone" and never (as far as I am aware) customers.


Section 6 Whoever congregates with another person in a prostitution establishment for the benefit of prostitution of that person or of another person shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month, or a fine not exceeding one thousand baht, or both.

The key words are "in a prostitution establishment" and its legal definition according to the Entertainment Places Act 1966 - see above.


Section 5 Whoever, for the purpose of prostitution, offers, solicits, introduces oneself to, follows, or importunes another person on a street, in a public place, or any other place and such act is overtly and shamelessly committed or causes nuisance to the public, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

It is this Section and this Section only which is used both in the regular "round up" and "clean up" operations (for example against those Thais soliciting on Beach Road and "causing nuisance" to the general public) as well as against those Farangs accosting Thais (for example the Farang who introduced himself to my partner with the question "Can I fuck you?" in Giordano would be guilty, while the one who asked him what a dragon fruit was, how much a cantaloupe cost, and what the time was, in Tesco/Lotus would not!)


Those sections lead me to believe that both the buyer and seller are breaking the law.

Only according to Section 5, not the remainder, and then only in very limited circumstances - certainly not " every single person who takes a male or female for paid sex of whatever age ... a lot of lawbreaking from the start of walking street to the dolphin roundabout alone" as thaiquest "knows" to be the case. I will agree, however, that technically there is a law that some "buyers" may be breaking - but not many.


and just in case you were wondering тАЬProstitution EstablishmentтАЭ means the place or premises arranged for prostitution or allowed for prostitution, and shall include the place used for making contact or procuring another person for prostitution;

Correct - unless, of course, it is a "place or premises" as defined in the Entertainment Places Act of 1966!!

[Brad the Impala]

Gwm4asian quotes the law. Gone Fishing quotes his own opinion.

Gwm4asian quotes the law. Gone Fishing quotes his own opinion.

Quite true. Gwm4asian is to be congratulated on his thoughtful post.

But we shouldn't be too critical of Gone Fishing. Most, if not all of us are ignorant of Thai law and have no real means of solving this problem. So mostly we have to rely on hear-say. The trouble is of course that ignorance is no excuse in law.

At least, Brad the Liar, I do not deliberately mis-quote, as you do.

Gwm4asian and I are clearly both quoting the law, except we are quoting different laws, both of which can be checked by those with the time and ability to do so; you appear to lack the latter.

Gwm4asian has obviously taken the time to check his information before posting based on that information - something you and others appear sadly unable to do, basing your opinions on your imagination; he has no need whatsoever of your asinine comments and distracting support in order to put forward a rational and sound argument (which I happen to disagree with).

I see no reason to change my previous opinion of you ("you appear to have the mental acuity of a cabbage") and no point in responding to your infantile remarks, now or at any time.



أحْمَق خدا حاف

[Smiles]

" ... This thread has run its course as postings are way of topic ... "
Going "off topic" has no event status vis-a-vis the Sawatdee Posting Guidelines ( http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... t6259.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting-rules-and-guidelines-t6259.html) ). Threads on Sawatdee do this continually, and more often than not wend their way back (slowly) to the original post.

Why Luvthai thinks he has the right (forget 'originality') to dictate that any given thread has "run it's course" and thus implying that 'something should be done' by the Mods, is frankly, beyond my imagination.
Perhaps he thinks he's on GayThailand, or heaven forbid, Baht Stop.

Cheers ...

Most, if not all of us are ignorant of Thai law and have no real means of solving this problem. So mostly we have to rely on hear-say. The trouble is of course that ignorance is no excuse in law.I'm still looking forward to you testing the law on whether a boy over the age of consent (15) but under 18 is engaged in act of prostitution if he receives no benefit financial or otherwise and a non-Thai is his partner in that moment of pleasure

Wow! Such a killer instinct in here. My comment was just an observation.