Boys Bangkok Off Fees

I read somewhere on one of the boards, but I can't find it anymore. Off fees at Boys Bangkok are now 500 Baht. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true, what justifies this price? Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

[Sen Yai]

what justifies this price? Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

No. Plates of rice.

I read somewhere on one of the boards, but I can't find it anymore. Off fees at Boys Bangkok are now 500 Baht. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true, what justifies this price? Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

You think they have to "justify" their prices to you? I think they'll find that surprising. Don't purchase if you don't like the price.

I read somewhere on one of the boards, but I can't find it anymore. Off fees at Boys Bangkok are now 500 Baht. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true, what justifies this price? Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

If you're too cheap to pay the 500 baht off fee - maybe you should wait until they get off work at around 2:00am :alien: :alien:

I read somewhere on one of the boards, but I can't find it anymore. Off fees at Boys Bangkok are now 500 Baht. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true, what justifies this price? Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

If you're too cheap to pay the 500 baht off fee - maybe you should wait until they get off work at around 2:00am :alien: :alien:

so you can get those left-overs.

[allieb]

Do the boys run on barrels of oil or something?

No a sea of cum or a barrel of shit

My, so much invective just for asking a simple question and nobody has even given an answer.

My, so much invective just for asking a simple question and nobody has even given an answer.The management charge what they believe the market will bear, I guess. As I have a little black book of bar boy phone numbers (disintermediation, don't forget, George) who pop around to fill in the time between drinks and dinner (the purpose for which sodomy was invented, as we all remember) before the bars open, it's a levy I avoid (like income tax)

BTW, I found it again, it is on Cruising for Sex in a thread called "bar reports" (thanks to one poster for pointing it out to me). Indeed, the bars are free to ask whatever they want. Luckily I am free to choose the bars I visit as well. Or visit Saphan Kwai, DJ, GayRomeo, Silom Complex, G Star......the choices are endless :-)

[TrongpaiExpat]

My, so much invective just for asking a simple question and nobody has even given an answer.

Your post has not been up that long, give it some time, someone should know. Sorry, I don't, last I heard it was 400B, 500 for door men, waiter and some of the performers/dancers for the soi Twilight venues only. It seems that the BBB group sets the prices and everyone else follows.

Prices don't stay all that consistent on that soi. Sometimes the prices for drinks go up weekends, sometimes not.

gayromeo is the solution to off fees.

1 There is no off fee from guys on the steps opposite "The Wall Street Hotel".

2 They do not have to justify prices. The customer can either accept it or go elsewhere. The freedom to go elsewhere is the good point about competition.

3 It would be nice if some recent visitors could confirm if the off fee is correct. That would help future visitors make informed choices, which could only help to keep prices down.

[markie1]

And yEs the Off fees are High should it be 500 baht ,and 250 to 300 per Drink,it can work out quite costly ,especially if you are on vacation .Before you know it you can have 2/3 Drinks have a Guy sitting neXt to you for a drink ,pay a bar fee ,Buy another boy a drink ,pay him his Tip ,take him out else where it can work out expencive ,so just watch it , before your night has finnished you might have spent about 6000/7000 baht ,and that is about ┬г105.00 expencive for a one night off.
work that out over two weeks .

[markie1]

I personally think they are Over charging these days ,i know this discution has been on before ,but the cost of living over there and the drink prices in some of these bars are over the top ,and i can quite easily see from making visits over the lasy SIX years that things have cahnged and people can not afford to entertain these prices too often, and Yes before you all start screeming we do have choice ,and if you know thailand well enough you dont need to spend this kind of monet to find a nice guy .and yes i am fully aware other countries charge a lot more for this type of servive ,BUt i have never felt the need to use it in other countries ,with the average salary in thailand been around 10000 baht a month ,and i think that is been generous, we should not expect to pay above London prices where the average salary is much more at around 6 times higher.
And Yes we have choices ,thats why i dont really venture these Go Go bars unless i have friends that want to go there ,i am happy with my boy friend ,and dont really want to waste money on these places that rip you off,you see so many bars open and close these days ,and just think why ?/

This is still cheap compared with Europe & the service is much better.

Last year in BKK, I typically paid something like 200~250 for a beer, the same for one for my "off", followed by an off fee around 350 and a 1100~1200 tip. Sometimes I had 1 drink in 3 different bars.
Pattaya was slightly cheaper & I paid similar tips short time, 2000 overnight.

Overall, I figure this is remarkable value, expecially when the hotel rooms are only 1100~1700bht.

Personally, I don't like to have more than 3 beers before offing a guy.
However, if you like the beer AND are cost conscious, why not have a couple of beers at a conventional bar before going to the go go bars? On Soi Duangthawee it's just nice to watch the guys walking past or trying to persuade customers to enter the massage parlours.

More to the point, where else in the world (excl Thailand) can you watch cute gogo dancers, off them (for little money) and expect good service in the bedroom? In Europe, this just isn't possible. OK certain places in Prague have strip shows, but they are not so cute & service in the bedroom is very variable.

However, given the information I would choose to go to places with an "off-fee" that is well below 500bht.

This is still cheap compared with Europe Completely irrelevant. The price of a hamburger is also different. So what? If you factor in the airfare and hotel costs, averaged over the number of boys you have in a two-week holiday, where are the savings?

You do like a good debate!

It's quite relevant when deciding where to take my holidays

Here's a comparison of a small proportion of expenses:

Thailand per day:
Hotel ┬г25; Off fee, 2 drinks + tip ┬г35. Total = ┬г60

Prague per day:
Hotel ┬г60; Off fee, tip & 2 drinks ┬г70 Total = ┬г130

Over 2 weeks I save ┬г980 which easily pays for the difference in air fare.

Also I prefer Thailand and can stay in a better hotel for the money quoted above. The Thai gogo bars are much nicer & the rent boys have a much better attitude to customer service (on average). So Thailand wins for value for money and quality.

For a weekend trip, of course Prague is better.

[lonelywombat]

You do like a good debate!

It's quite relevant when deciding where to take my holidays

Here's a comparison of a small proportion of expenses:

Thailand per day:
Hotel ┬г25; Off fee, 2 drinks + tip ┬г35. Total = ┬г60

Prague per day:
Hotel ┬г60; Off fee, tip & 2 drinks ┬г70 Total = ┬г130

Over 2 weeks I save ┬г980 which easily pays for the difference in air fare.

Also I prefer Thailand and can stay in a better hotel for the money quoted above. The Thai gogo bars are much nicer & the rent boys have a much better attitude to customer service (on average). So Thailand wins for value for money and quality.

For a weekend trip, of course Prague is better.

I have also found the boys in Prague more in the mid to late twenties, and I do not feel as safe. I usually stay in a condo in
Prague and do not feel as safe walking around at night. The number of bars ad therefore the choice of boys is more limited in Prague compared to the choice in LOS

[TrongpaiExpat]

My, so much invective just for asking a simple question and nobody has even given an answer.

Your post has not been up that long, give it some time, someone should know. Sorry, I don't, last I heard it was 400B, 500 for door men, waiter and some of the performers/dancers for the soi Twilight venues only. It seems that the BBB group sets the prices and everyone else follows.

Prices don't stay all that consistent on that soi. Sometimes the prices for drinks go up weekends, sometimes not.

I guess I was wrong, on page 2 and nobody knows nothin about the current price of a soi Twilight off but many have a lot to say about it. I'll might be over there tonight and I will ask if anyone cares.

z909 writes: "Off fee, 2 drinks + tip ┬г35."

That is a little over 2300 Baht. Hmm...how does one do that? Say you have 3 drinks (well, mostly ice with a drop of cola or something). That includes one for your chosen rent boy. That's a total 900 Baht. Then 500 Baht off fee, 1500 baht tip, 300 baht for a short time hotel, and voila, 3200 Baht spent. That's almost a 100 bucks. To tie this in with the thread about flying business class, I'd rather spend extra money flying in biz class comfort than having a few mediocre fucks.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

My, so much invective just for asking a simple question and nobody has even given an answer.The management charge what they believe the market will bear, I guess. As I have a little black book of bar boy phone numbers (disintermediation, don't forget, George) who pop around to fill in the time between drinks and dinner (the purpose for which sodomy was invented, as we all remember) before the bars open, it's a levy I avoid (like income tax)

It would be wise to firt ask the prospective "offed" if he knows whether he appears in that little black book.

Could be a plus-could be a minus as we don't for sure what evil sordid perversion Homintern is into !! :fucyc:

[yedo111]

I only pay 1500 Baht for everything including the tip but then Im on a budget.

I just walk into the bar , off the boy without any drinks and back to my apartement.

Easy life.

I only pay 1500 Baht for everything including the tip but then Im on a budget.
I just walk into the bar , off the boy without any drinks and back to my apartement.
Easy life.

For an evening out you pay 1500bht, I've paid 2300bht and "Asiagayboy" says 3200bht is the cost.

Well, I figure even 3200bht is damn good value for drinks and paid sex.
For those that can't or won't pay for the drinks, it's possible to trim your expenditure down as suggested here. So I don't see the need to complain endlessly.
On the other hand, publishing "off fees here" is a useful service, so we can exercise our judgement & avoid bars that are not good value.
This is the way to ensure the market is efficient & prices are kept down. I figure many of us would just pay up if we had selected the boy & then found the off fee was 150bht more than expected. So it's good to know in advance.

[dab69]

In Bangkok I find in the mornings I have gone over budget @ 9000bT/night but I am just there a couple days before I head for Jomtien.
The first couple days are a big thrill to be in Bangkok and Thailand, even after 10 years of going, and I DO tend to overspend.

And agreeing with Homitern the average goes WAY down because I usually don't actually to that many "take outs" on vacation, settling down and just having the fun of the hunt. More fun just to "shop around"

[Geezer]

тАЬI just walk into the bar , off the boy without any drinksтАжтАЭ

Some bars in Pattaya charge a higher off fee if a drink is not purchased.

I'm all for this idea of Z909 to publish off fees and drinks prices for various bars. Can it be made into a sticky thread?

Do you really think that is necessary, considering that the difference between the cheapest and the most expensive is only the matter of pocket change? Well, I suppose there are people out there for whom a difference of $3-$5 might require careful deliberation, and counting of pennies. Probably the same people stuck in cattle class with allieb.

I'm all for this idea of Z909 to publish off fees and drinks prices for various bars. Can it be made into a sticky thread?

And as soon as its published, it'll be out of date. Then someone will come back whinging that such and such a bar charged 50 baht more than the price posted on SGT.

A thread discussing off fees can be read by people who like to budget carefully and can be ignored by people who dislike to read whinging.
There is no need whatsoever to whinge about off fees.
Either pay the price requested, or go elsewhere & if you really want, post the off fees here so others can make informed decisions.

Here's my guide to off fees:

Bars in Thailand charge off fees of between 200 baht and 500 baht. The difference is less than $10. If that little money makes a difference to you, you should be at home working instead of in Thailand on holiday.

Any questions?

It's not so much about the actual amount of money and whether I can afford it or not. I can. It is whether I get my money's worth. Sitting on torn plastic benches in a tatty bar with ear splitting music, a bunch of stinking smokers, cockroaches scurrying around and an ugly mamasan bleating in my ear to please select from the bored and overweight men in tesco underwear is a waste of money, for me. That's after I escaped the touts who physically assault me when I walk into Soi Twilight.

I love spending money, but I like it even better when I get my money's worth. At the moment that is not the case in Soi Twilight. It's like the overpriced Internet and cable tv services by True. You get less than in Europe, the quality of service is a lot worse, yet somehow you pay more. So I have a good lunch at the Oriental or the Sukhothai once or twice a month with the money that would otherwise go to Soi Twilight. It's expensive, but I get value for money. That's my choice.

It's not so much about the actual amount of money and whether I can afford it or not. I can. It is whether I get my money's worth. Sitting on torn plastic benches in a tatty bar with ear splitting music, a bunch of stinking smokers, cockroaches scurrying around and an ugly mamasan bleating in my ear to please select from the bored and overweight men in tesco underwear is a waste of money, for me. That's after I escaped the touts who physically assault me when I walk into Soi Twilight.

I love spending money, but I like it even better when I get my money's worth. At the moment that is not the case in Soi Twilight. It's like the overpriced Internet and cable tv services by True. You get less than in Europe, the quality of service is a lot worse, yet somehow you pay more. So I have a good lunch at the Oriental or the Sukhothai once or twice a month with the money that would otherwise go to Soi Twilight. It's expensive, but I get value for money. That's my choice.

It's very simple, if you don't like it then stay in Europe and spend your money there! Why bitch, whine and moan!!! It's getting old!! :cya:

It's very simple, if you don't like it then stay in Europe and spend your money there! Why bitch, whine and moan!!!Is this a general principle - people are not permitted to say why they have an opinion?

[markie1]

It's not so much about the actual amount of money and whether I can afford it or not. I can. It is whether I get my money's worth. Sitting on torn plastic benches in a tatty bar with ear splitting music, a bunch of stinking smokers, cockroaches scurrying around and an ugly mamasan bleating in my ear to please select from the bored and overweight men in tesco underwear is a waste of money, for me. That's after I escaped the touts who physically assault me when I walk into Soi Twilight.

I love spending money, but I like it even better when I get my money's worth. At the moment that is not the case in Soi Twilight. It's like the overpriced Internet and cable tv services by True. You get less than in Europe, the quality of service is a lot worse, yet somehow you pay more. So I have a good lunch at the Oriental or the Sukhothai once or twice a month with the money that would otherwise go to Soi Twilight. It's expensive, but I get value for money.


I must admit i have to agree ,soi twilight is getting worse ,i have only been going there 5 yeras on and off ,every time i go ,you can not go down the street with out been pulled and pushed ,the outside door people are just getting too heavy there ,pulling/dragging customers who really dont want to go in there bars , they very rarely get to the end of the soi ,because of the Bullies,this is surely off putting for new customers also because they never really get a chance to go where they want to go ,i have seen it first hand on many occations,they do actually know me now so i dont get pulled has much ,but i do feel really sorry for the guys who do ,and you can clearly see on there faces they are not happy .
Why do they do thisi ,Well the main reason is if they get a guy in abar its 250/300 baht just to walk through the door so add it up , push and pull has many guys in t oa bar has possible it soon adds up at 300 a shot.
, choice.

It's not so much about the actual amount of money and whether I can afford it or not. I can. It is whether I get my money's worth. Sitting on torn plastic benches in a tatty bar with ear splitting music, a bunch of stinking smokers, cockroaches scurrying around and an ugly mamasan bleating in my ear to please select from the bored and overweight men in tesco underwear is a waste of money, for me. That's after I escaped the touts who physically assault me when I walk into Soi Twilight.

I love spending money, but I like it even better when I get my money's worth. At the moment that is not the case in Soi Twilight. It's like the overpriced Internet and cable tv services by True. You get less than in Europe, the quality of service is a lot worse, yet somehow you pay more. So I have a good lunch at the Oriental or the Sukhothai once or twice a month with the money that would otherwise go to Soi Twilight. It's expensive, but I get value for money.


I must admit i have to agree ,soi twilight is getting worse ,i have only been going there 5 yeras on and off ,every time i go ,you can not go down the street with out been pulled and pushed ,the outside door people are just getting too heavy there ,pulling/dragging customers who really dont want to go in there bars , they very rarely get to the end of the soi ,because of the Bullies,this is surely off putting for new customers also because they never really get a chance to go where they want to go ,i have seen it first hand on many occations,they do actually know me now so i dont get pulled has much ,but i do feel really sorry for the guys who do ,and you can clearly see on there faces they are not happy .
Why do they do thisi ,Well the main reason is if they get a guy in abar its 250/300 baht just to walk through the door so add it up , push and pull has many guys in t oa bar has possible it soon adds up at 300 a shot.
, choice.

easy to avoid that problem, just say you are going to Dick's for a drink/dinner and they leave you alone

easy to avoid that problem, just say you are going to Dick's for a drink/dinner and they leave you aloneOr you could practise the most useful phrase in the Thai language - "my ow" ("ow" as in "that hurt"). It means "not interested". I stride purposefully along whistling "There'll always be an England" and they leave me alone - apart from the wais and other tokens of respect they pay a regular punter going about the White Man's Burden, of course

Is this a general principle - people are not permitted to say why they have an opinion?

A pot calling a kettle black? :argue:

It's very simple, if you don't like it then stay in Europe and spend your money there! Why bitch, whine and moan!!! It's getting old!! :cya:

Hmmm..if you were a shop assistant I'd get you fired on the spot. I'm a customer giving feedback but I'm told to shut up.

It's very simple, if you don't like it then stay in Europe and spend your money there! Why bitch, whine and moan!!! It's getting old!! :cya:

Hmmm..if you were a shop assistant I'd get you fired on the spot. I'm a customer giving feedback but I'm told to shut up.

Life ain't fair! Customers are NOT always right!! So outta my shop you cheap charlie.... :drunken: :drunken:

[Khor tose]

Homi, Kipling called on the USA to take up "The White Mans Burden" when we took the Philippines. The poem was for America and Americans. He wanted us to be as destructive of the native culture as the British were at the time. Sad to say he succeeded. Hardly a tradition I wish to carry on or to be proud of doing. If you still believe imposed solutions work, then I have a job for you in Iraq.

Homi, Kipling called on the USA to take up "The White Mans Burden" when we took the Philippines. The poem was for America and Americans. He wanted us to be as destructive of the native culture as the British were at the time. Sad to say he succeeded. Hardly a tradition I wish to carry on or to be proud of doing. If you still believe imposed solutions work, then I have a job for you in Iraq.Thanks for the history lesson (rich, coming from a native of the one country with no sense of history ...). However for me the White Man's Burden is ensuring that every Soi Prostitute go-go show has at least an audience of one. It's a challenge, but someone has to do it

Thanks for the history lesson (rich, coming from a native of the one country with no sense of history ...).

Speaking of history - Which prison colony did your relative decend from? :alien: :alien:

[Brad the Impala]

Thanks for the history lesson (rich, coming from a native of the one country with no sense of history ...).

Speaking of history - Which prison colony did your relative decend from? :alien: :alien:

Aunty has surely escaped from Cell Block H!

To be pedantic, Mai Ow actually means "Don't Want" but certainly does the job.

to be even more pedantic, doesnt 'mai ow' mean that you dont want something that somebody is being offered you? if you dont want to do something, such as to go into the bar, surely 'mai yaak' would be more correct? I stand to be corrected by those more expert

[Bob]

Well, I'm no expert but I believe "mai ao" means "don't want" whereas "mai yahk" means "don't like." So, if somebody was offering you a drink or candy and you didn't want to take it, it's "mai ao krab." If you took it and then didn't like the taste, you could say "mai yahk krab" (although you could more specifically say it doesn't taste good with other words).

Or more specific to this crowd ( :clown: ), you'd say "mai ao krab" if you wished to decline the blowjob the mamasan is offerring you or "mai yahk krab" if you don't happen to like the katoey show in the bar.

Well, I'm no expert but I believe "mai ao" means "don't want" whereas "mai yahk" means "don't like." So, if somebody was offering you a drink or candy and you didn't want to take it, it's "mai ao krab." If you took it and then didn't like the taste, you could say "mai yahk krab" (although you could more specifically say it doesn't taste good with other words).

Or more specific to this crowd ( :clown: ), you'd say "mai ao krab" if you wished to decline the blowjob the mamasan is offerring you or "mai yahk krab" if you don't happen to like the katoey show in the bar.

"Mai yaak" (don't want) is nonsensical in the way you have used it. It usually needs another verb with it, like "mai yaak pai" (I don't want to go). If you took something and didn't like it, you'd simply use "mai chawp", but that's a bit direct. More polite would be "kin mai pen", I'm not accustomed to the taste.

But both your examples of "mai yaak" are completely wrong.

"Mai yaak" (don't want) is nonsensical in the way you have used it. It usually needs another verb with it, like "mai yaak pai" (I don't want to go). If you took something and didn't like it, you'd simply use "mai chawp", but that's a bit direct. More polite would be "kin mai pen", I'm not accustomed to the taste.

But both your examples of "mai yaak" are completely wrong.

P' Chao Na, would you agree that 'mai aw' is not really correct to use where you dont want to go into the gogo bar? Whereas if they were handing out flyers and you didnt want want one, 'mai aw' would be correct?
Of course the method used by Thai people is to ignore the touts, which doesnt seem to work - they get harassed just as much as anybody.

P' Chao Na, would you agree that 'mai aw' is not really correct to use where you dont want to go into the gogo bar? Whereas if they were handing out flyers and you didnt want want one, 'mai aw' would be correct?

No, I'd say it's fine in either case.

Well, I'm no expert but I believe "mai ao" means "don't want" whereas "mai yahk" means "don't like." So, if somebody was offering you a drink or candy and you didn't want to take it, it's "mai ao krab." If you took it and then didn't like the taste, you could say "mai yahk krab" (although you could more specifically say it doesn't taste good with other words).

Or more specific to this crowd ( :clown: ), you'd say "mai ao krab" if you wished to decline the blowjob the mamasan is offerring you or "mai yahk krab" if you don't happen to like the katoey show in the bar.

"Mai yaak" (don't want) is nonsensical in the way you have used it. It usually needs another verb with it, like "mai yaak pai" (I don't want to go). If you took something and didn't like it, you'd simply use "mai chawp", but that's a bit direct. More polite would be "kin mai pen", I'm not accustomed to the taste.

But both your examples of "mai yaak" are completely wrong.

Correct Chao Na, although "Mai Ow Krub" is perfectly acceptable except in very polite society. "Mai Chawp" literally means "Don't like".

Yes...the liberal use of "krub" should be a given.

[Bob]

"Mai yaak" (don't want) is nonsensical in the way you have used it. It usually needs another verb with it, like "mai yaak pai" (I don't want to go). If you took something and didn't like it, you'd simply use "mai chawp", but that's a bit direct. More polite would be "kin mai pen", I'm not accustomed to the taste.

But both your examples of "mai yaak" are completely wrong.

You know, BG, as soon as I saw your comment, I realized I was wrong ("chawp" was the word I should have been using for "like" and realize that "yahk" is more commonly used as an auxiliary verb). Sorry.....but I occasionally get sidetracked reading and speaking what thai I know when I haven't done so in months.

[catawampuscat]

By the way boys, nobody says krub except when using formal Thai. After the letter k (or Thai equivalent) the
R is not pronounced...
It sounds likes kup... Simply drop the R.

There is a bp consonant and a dt consonant among the many Thai consonants and they are difficult for many
farangs to pronounce.. the worst is the ng one, which is easy at the end of a word as we are used to ing endings but
very difficult at the beginning of a word..
Is anyone still awake?

I am no authority on the Thai language and have not been to Thai language school for over three years.. You do learn the krub in school
(if you are male, females say ka) but in practice you hear kup almost all the time... :cat:

I disagree with you about "no one" pronouncing the "r".

It's kind of like saying "ain't" instead of "isn't". Depends on if you want to speak correctly, or speak like an uneducated bar boy.

By the way boys, nobody says krub except when using formal Thai. After the letter k (or Thai equivalent) the R is not pronounced...
It sounds likes kup... Simply drop the R.Absolute crap, krub. The lower-class Thais drop the "r" and never use it because they are simply too lazy, ignorant or uneducated to use it*. My Thai teacher (yes, I did bother, once) was being tactful when she explained it was "the Chinese influence" ie. "r" = "l" or gets left out altogether. One hears ignorant Westerners who've only learnt from bar boys saying "carp, carp" all the time - it just gives their ignorance away

* just as they are using "yib" rather than "yi-sib" to denote "20"

Its not only the ignorant and uneducated Thais who drop the 'r', or sustitute 'r' for 'l'. I have some friends who are certainly not ignorant or uneducated, and I cant remember them pronouncing the 'khrap' with the 'r' in normal conversation, yet there is a security guy at my building (who I will generalise and suggest he is probably less educated, but I could be wrong) who always pronounces it with the 'r'.
My Thai teacher said use whichever you want, Thai people dont care.

You are right, it's not solely a matter of education.

It's more like the difference between "yes" and "yeah". Everyone knows what is correct, but laziness/casualness often play a part. "Krub" is always acceptable, regardless of the situation. "kub" or "klub" are not always acceptable, if you are trying to be polite or speaking with a stranger.

Just like all English speakers use "yes", "yeah", "yep", "uh-huh", or just nod their heads when they want to respond in the affirmative, depending on the situation.

But if you don't know when is appropriate to use which, you can come off sounding either like an oaf, cretin, or slob.

Same thing in Thai. It is always best to use the proper "krub", then you'll always be right.

[Bob]

Around Chiangmai and the north, I never hear the "r" (okay, half way between an "r" and an "l") and only hear them pronounce it "kap" (or similar to that). I do hear the "r" (or whatever) more often in Bangkok and Pattaya but not all the time.

And, when listening to Thais talking, even Thais of lower class, I seem to hear it quite often. Very often when two thais are talking to each other, you'll hear the one not speaking repeatedly interjecting "kap" (or krab/krap) almost as an interjection or acknowledgment that they're still listening and/or that they agree with what's being said. Sometimes it seems to me that this is just a way of shortening a more formal "chai, kap."

[Smiles]

Listening to Thai TV news readers ~ and many of them ~ I can say fairly comfortably that a very large majority of them use the Thai 'polite' word which sounds like "kup", rather than "Khrup". The leaving out of the "r" may well be an example of 'lazy' speech ... but it is demonstratably ubiquitous, by a very wide margin.

Cheers ...

Amazing how a thread about the price of off fees morphs into a discussion about pronunciation. Cha!

[Khor tose]

Homi, Kipling called on the USA to take up "The White Mans Burden" when we took the Philippines. The poem was for America and Americans. He wanted us to be as destructive of the native culture as the British were at the time. Sad to say he succeeded. Hardly a tradition I wish to carry on or to be proud of doing. If you still believe imposed solutions work, then I have a job for you in Iraq.Thanks for the history lesson (rich, coming from a native of the one country with no sense of history ...). However for me the White Man's Burden is ensuring that every Soi Prostitute go-go show has at least an audience of one. It's a challenge, but someone has to do it

Sorry I was so late in getting back to you. There are some Americans that appreciate the lessons of history. Sadly, none of them are in the White House at the moment. I freely admit that your version of the "white man's burden" is one that I can fully support. Should you find that the task becomes onerous or grows tiresome, rest assured that I will be glad to enlist and share this burden with you. Considering the quality of some of these shows, I fully appreciate the sacrifices you have had to make, and the pain you must endure. You are truly a brave man, as you can--in the words of Irving Berlin--"Face the music and dance."