Another one bites the dust

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan. The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks. The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

[Brad the Impala]

What license did he have?

[billyhouston]

Met a Shan friend at the Friday Shan market in Chiang Mai. She had also had her bike taken away and had to pay Bht2000 to get it back. If she had any sense, Bht500 'Tea money' would have sorted the matter and saved her Bht1500. Shan without papers cannot register a bike in their own name and have to use someone else, which makes them vulnerable to all sorts of scams.

The way in which police haunt Wat Pa Pao and Wat Ku Tao on Shan festival days is shameful. They extort money from those who can least afford it and cannot complain.... may they rot in hell.

[cottmann]

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan. The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks. The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

The crime was driving without a license, wasn't it? Not "driving while being Shan". Come on, tell the truth.

What possible reason would I have for posting lies here?

The average Thai person caught driving without a license pays about 400 baht in "tea money" or genuine fine. Same thing for no helmet or not wearing a seatbelt in a car.

As I faithfully reported, and as has been verified by another poster already, the fine FOR SHAN ONLY is 2,000 baht. And again, this has happened to TWO of my students within the past two weeks. The police are not in a mood to discuss "tea money." They seize and impound the bike, and it is a genuine document-laden hassle to get it back while paying the two-thousand baht fine. The only known "work-around" is to get some Thai person to appear and go through the hassle for you. In this case, the fine is "only" 1,500 baht.

How are we to explain all this? Maybe as follows: the new, Toxin-oriented government is "populist." And a lot of Thai people dislike the Shan immigrants intensely. This should not be too surprising. Lots of Americans hate Mexicans, and lots of Germans hate Turks. And these Thai people get especially upset if the immigrant seems to be doing better than they are: a motorcycle is a pretty big deal for the average resident of Chiang Mai.

If the facts of the matter contradict your theory, it is time to get yourself a new theory.

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan. The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks. The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

When living in Japan I was never stopped or harassed whilst on my bicycyle or in any other circumstances.
This includes whilst looking for street prostitutes in the gay area area which was often patrolled by police cars.
If your colleague is stopped daily by the same officer, he should complain.

[Brad the Impala]

Did he have a license to ride a motorbike or not?

Haven't we been round this mulberry bush before?

If the facts of the matter contradict your theory, it is time to get yourself a new theory.I assume from the context of the thread that you're responding to boygeenyus' latest incarnation (whom I have on {Ignore}, naturally). The Lad is famous for asserting that no-one needs to bribe the police, you just call their bluff and go to the local police station to pay the fine. The fact that he's white and speaks excellent Thai (so he says) has not one jot or tittle to do with it. He also claims to be best friends with some high-ranking and (get this) non-corrupt police officers. I'm not sure why anyone would boast acquaintance with a policeman in any country, but that's Our Lad for you

[dab69]

why is some guy well over 40 a *Lad*?

well I do know a waiter formerly of Cafe Royal
who drove for more than two years
with no license plate on his motorbike

[billyhouston]

When a policeman attempts to extort money from a Thai or a farang, he knows that there is some chance that the person can fight back and moderates his demands accordingly. When dealing with Shan people, and there may be as many as a million living illegally in Northern Thailand, he knows that they dare do nothing other than pay up.... or else. These people, not being Thai citizens, are harassed at every move and there are many Thais who have still not forgotten 1767CE.

It is not possible for a Shan person (here and in future I'm talking about those coming from Shan State and not those born in Thailand) either to get a driving licence or to register a motorbike. Often it would be impossible to get to work without such transport so they have a Catch-22 situation. Take away the Shan from Northern Thailand and there would be no construction done and no restaurants open. I know of one restaurant in CM where of the 40 or so waiting staff only one is not Shan.... and she's Karen. Every minute they are late for work, they are fined one Baht and have to work 12 or more hours a day for peanuts. The owner takes the tips! This is not untypical of the exploitation they experience at the hands of ordinary Thais.

Couples who have fled the dreadful regime in Yangon face considerable problems when it comes to educating their children, and education seems to be greatly valued by the Shan, since they are not entitled to attend Thai school. Instead the boys and girls must be sent back to Shan to live with grandparents or uncles and aunts. As a consequence parents go many years without seeing their children, but work long hours to send the funds back home for their upkeep. I've seen the places where these people have to live and they defy description but, in spite of all their troubles and hassles, I have yet to meet any Shan who do not say..... 'It's still better than living under Than Shwe's rule'.

The Shan, Karen and other refugees make a considerable contribution to the Thai economy, they are not work-shy like some of our European immigrants, but this is not acknowledged by the government. The UNHCR does not recognise them as refugees, presumably for political reasons, and thus they do not receive the protection that such status would afford.

Sorry for such a long post but it's a subject very dear to my heart.

Yin som yiow ka!

[cottmann]

Another student of mine was busted two days ago for the crime of driving a motorcycle while being Shan. The bike was seized and impounded while he went looking for the 2,000 baht fine.

This is the second time in two weeks. The current government in Chiang Mai hates the Shan.

In Japan, it is the crime of riding a bicycle while being gaijin. One of my acquaintances is stopped almost daily, often by the same police officer, to check either his alien registration card or whether the bicycle is registered to him (all bicycles have to be registered with the local town hall). In other cases, it is part of young officers' kunren or training. Foreigners are often used here are 'guinea pigs' for training officials, as with the Narita Airport drugs affairs some weeks ago. It is for much the same reason Shan are hassled - because the officials can do it without any come-back - though here no tea money is involved.

When living in Japan I was never stopped or harassed whilst on my bicycyle or in any other circumstances.
This includes whilst looking for street prostitutes in the gay area area which was often patrolled by police cars.
If your colleague is stopped daily by the same officer, he should complain.

I've never been stopped by a police officer in the more than seven years I've been here either, but I was given the full luggage and pat-down search by Customs in 2005 when I arrived at the new Chubu International Airport on its opening day in 2005 - as part of the training of the new Customs Officials. I was the only non-Japanese on the plane, and the only person to be so searched.

If you lived in Japan for any time, surely you know that a gaikokujin complaining to the police about police harassment is like pissing in the wind - you get splashback!

Life's tough when you're an illegal alien tooling around on a motorcycle without a license. I suggest you try the same thing as a farang and see if you get off for cheaper than the Shan do.

[Smiles]

... there are many Thais who have still not forgotten 1767CE . . . Sorry for such a long post but it's a subject very dear to my heart ... "
A bleeding heart is all well and good, but what exactly is the (apparently) unforgotten 1767CE?
Little you say in your long post on this issue is of any value until the Board Dregs here are able to be in-the-know as to what you are talking about, non-Orwellian-wise.

Cheers ...

[Brad the Impala]

1767. Destruction of Ayutthya by the Burmese Army. Do keep up Smiles(oh ok, I had to google!)

[cottmann]

... there are many Thais who have still not forgotten 1767CE . . . Sorry for such a long post but it's a subject very dear to my heart ... "
A bleeding heart is all well and good, but what exactly is the (apparently) unforgotten 1767CE?
Little you say in your long post on this issue is of any value until the Board Dregs here are able to be in-the-know as to what you are talking about, non-Orwellian-wise.

Cheers ...


Presumably a reference to the 1767 Burmese invasion of Thailand and the collapse of the Ayutthaya kingdom, though I don't believe that the Shan were part of the Burmese kingdom at that time.

[Smiles]

Right & thanks! :cheers:

I assume from the context of the thread that you're responding to boygeenyus' latest incarnation (whom I have on {Ignore}, naturally). The Lad is famous for asserting that no-one needs to bribe the police, you just call their bluff and go to the local police station to pay the fine. The fact that he's white and speaks excellent Thai (so he says) has not one jot or tittle to do with it. He also claims to be best friends with some high-ranking and (get this) non-corrupt police officers. I'm not sure why anyone would boast acquaintance with a policeman in any country, but that's Our Lad for you

Only an idiot would put "high-ranking" and "non-corrupt" in the same sentence when referring to a Thai policeman. It is completely impossible for a Thai cop to rise to a high rank without being corrupt.

Or, at least, corrupt by Western cultural standards.

Of course, here at SGT we are all of the same mind: that people looking to impose Western cultural standards on Thais (ie., the evil NGO's) should be told to f-off.

Or does that only refer to people looking to impose Western cultural standards pertaining to sex?

Life's tough when you're an illegal alien tooling around on a motorcycle without a license. I suggest you try the same thing as a farang and see if you get off for cheaper than the Shan do.

First, the arrested Shan people were not "illegal aliens." They all had work permits and were living in Thailand legally, subject to the "Special Laws" such as "no travel" and "curfew at 10 PM."

Second, to fulfill your fantasy, I would have to let my visa expire and become an illegal alien. (People say there are many such farang living in Thailand.) And then the police would actually have to stop me -- something which has never happened to me in my lucky farang life, UNLESS I was driving a car or truck with non-farang passengers.

If the police DID ever stop me, I would simply show them my expired U.S. license and smile. I doubt if they would progress to asking for my passport, but, if they did, I would obviously be looking at something much more serious than a $USD 60.00 fine.

And your point was??

If your buddies are here legally, they are eligible for Thai drivers' licenses. Why on earth have they not gotten one? What you are describing is completely by-the-book handling of people driving without a license -- whether that person is Thai or foreign. Why should we have sympathy for people who are apparently too lazy to abide by the law and get a simple driver's license?

Met a Shan friend at the Friday Shan market in Chiang Mai. She had also had her bike taken away and had to pay Bht2000 to get it back. If she had any sense, Bht500 'Tea money' would have sorted the matter and saved her Bht1500. Shan without papers cannot register a bike in their own name and have to use someone else, which makes them vulnerable to all sorts of scams.

The way in which police haunt Wat Pa Pao and Wat Ku Tao on Shan festival days is shameful. They extort money from those who can least afford it and cannot complain.... may they rot in hell.

Agreed, one hundred percent. Shameful. Utterly and completely shameful, especially for a country which claims to respect the Buddhist religion.

On High Buddhist Holidays, the god-damned flies gather to arrest those who are making merit.

And they call their ill-gotten gains nam jai.

Shan without papers cannot register a bike in their own name and have to use someone else, which makes them vulnerable to all sorts of scams.

Doesn't "without papers" mean "here illegally"?

Isn't it a shame people here illegally don't have the same legal rights as those who are! Oh the injustice!

Did he have a license to ride a motorbike or not? Haven't we been round this mulberry bush before?

Oh Joy, Brad and I are in agreement again!! I had better make the most of it while it lasts!

Of course we have been over it before, more than once, as with the boyfriend and his brother detained at the border for "being Shan" when the reality was that the brother had an ID card altered with correcting fluid.


It is not possible for a Shan person (here and in future I'm talking about those coming from Shan State and not those born in Thailand) either to get a driving licence or to register a motorbike.

Not correct. It is perfectly possible for them to get a "pink" tinted Thai ID card, followed by a driving licence and then to register a motorbike. A friend of mine ("coming from Shan State and not born in Thailand"), now living and working near Rayong, has done so and he tells me that the problem is that many are not here legally and they "share" ID cards; as such, they can hardly blame the Thais for their predicament.

And by "student" does HC mean "off", as before?

[cottmann]

...Or, at least, corrupt by Western cultural standards.......

Such as those that apply to certain western businesses and politicians, e.g., beginning with Enron, etc., and ending with Berlusconi, Aherne, Chirac, the British cash for honors politicians, and countless others?

...Or, at least, corrupt by Western cultural standards.......

Such as those that apply to certain western businesses and politicians, e.g., beginning with Enron, etc., and ending with Berlusconi, Aherne, Chirac, the British cash for honors politicians, and countless others?

Yes, those standards. Not sure what your point is?

[cottmann]

[quote="Chao Na":kp9pskfl]...Or, at least, corrupt by Western cultural standards.......

Such as those that apply to certain western businesses and politicians, e.g., beginning with Enron, etc., and ending with Berlusconi, Aherne, Chirac, the British cash for honors politicians, and countless others?

Yes, those standards. Not sure what your point is?[/quote:kp9pskfl]

My point is that corruption is universal, by either eastern or western standards. Thai police may rise to the top by being corrupt (as you mentioned in your earlier post) but police corruption is not limited to Thailand. For example, some years ago, in Australia, the Queensland Government's Fitzgerald Inquiry revealed police corruption reaching as high as both the then-current police commissioner (Sir Terry Lewis) and the former commissioner.

You are correct that corruption is "universal", if by that you mean that it occurs in every society known to mankind.

I strongly disagree with you, however, if you are stating that the cultural standards of what is and what is not corrupt are the same everywhere. In fact, they vary enormously. People referring to someone being "corrupt" are usually referring to corruption by their own cultural standards.

[cottmann]

You are correct that corruption is "universal", if by that you mean that it occurs in every society known to mankind.

I strongly disagree with you, however, if you are stating that the cultural standards of what is and what is not corrupt are the same everywhere. In fact, they vary enormously. People referring to someone being "corrupt" are usually referring to corruption by their own cultural standards.

I don't disagree about the cultural variations in terms of what defines corruption. I'm sure no westerner who takes home spare pens, who makes personal phone calls on an office telephone or who surfs the Internet at work would regard those activities as corruption, i.e., the misuse of entrusted power for private gain.

I don't disagree about the cultural variations in terms of what defines corruption. I'm sure no westerner who takes home spare pens, who makes personal phone calls on an office telephone or who surfs the Internet at work would regard those activities as corruption, i.e., the misuse of entrusted power for private gain.Oh dear. Don't tell me The Lad is trying that story about his mother and the postman again? He's the sort of person who believes that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't mean "universal" when talking about Thailand. It's perfectly acceptable for the Taliban to insist that girls don't deserve education; to say otherwise would be kow-towing to Western "norms". Converts always assume their new love is a special case, and The Lad's conversion to Siamism is no exception

I just talked with the latest Shan victim of this nonsense, and he offered a pretty clear explanation of the situation. There is, in fact, a new law, passed by the new democratically-elected government, which specifies that the crime of driving without a license shall be punished with a fine of 200 baht for Thai nationals, but that the fine shall be 2,000 baht for non-citizens (aliens).

This would seem to be bad enough on its face: imagine Germany passing a similar law and the ensuing uproar. But the key here obviously lies in selective enforcement. After all, the Chiang Mai cops could have a field day looking for the Thai licenses possessed by Japanese, Englishmen, and other tourists. Or legal residents like me: I'm still an alien. But -- again -- the uproar would be huge and instantaneous, and might actually cut into tourist revenues. So this new law is enforced against exactly one group of aliens: the Shan. As billyhouston pointed out, the Shan make an "ideal" group to victimize because they are so helpless. Many of them cannot even compose a letter to the editor in the Thai language.

So it's really a no-win situation. On the one hand, LEGAL Shan guest workers do not have the right to obtain a driver's license OR to own a motor vehicle. So then the police turn around and bust them for driving without a license.

I'd appreciate any more information about this situation. In particular, has anyone ever heard of this new law being enforced against anyone who is not Shan? It sure looks like a "designer law" to me...

Logic, Henry Cate style:

Driving without a license is against the law, for all nationalities including Thais
My Shan buddies drive without a license and get busted
conclusion: the Thai cops are singling out only Shan illegal drivers

What I want to know is how a Thai cop can spot a Shan on the fly? Do they have a gold "S" on their shirts, or what? Do they sit by the roadside and go "Thai...Lisu...Farang...Jap...Arab...SHAN! GET HIM!' Perhaps in Henry Cate's fantasy world.

Of course, when it comes down to it, Henry is griping about someone breaking the law and getting caught. My first thought would be, well DON'T BREAK THE LAW!

But, that's Chao Na logic, not Henry Cate logic.

Why would any government pass a law aimed at a tiny minority? Knowing the mindset, I would think (if this is a real law), its aimed at getting more cash out of the many thousands of relatively wealthy western and Asian tourists and long termers who live in all parts of the country. And why Shan, why not Tai, Karen, or Indians or any other small minority group?

Well, the American internment of the Japanese, and the Nazi laws and procedures against the Jews come to mind immediately. Why would the Khomeini government persecute not only the Jews but the Baha'i? Why would Black Africans have expelled the Indians?

Would you like a little more time to think about this? This pattern of behavior is not rare by any means at all. In America of yore, black people were mostly slaves and counted as (as I recall) three-fifths of a human being. Jim Crow laws only began disappearing in the 1960's.

And I haven't mentioned the most obvious example of them all: Christian/Puritan governments and their habit of passing laws against gay men!!! "Why would any government do such a thing?"

It is a huge fallacy to believe that human actions are reasonable, or even correctable by reason.

[Brad the Impala]

As I understand it, it is Thai Government policy to discourage the millions of Shan in Burma from coming to Thailand. Those, 200,000?, who have been accepted as legal refugees, are required to remain in refugee camps. Other Shan, in Thailand illegally, are considered to be economic migrants, and liable to deportation.

Thailand's first responsibility is understandably towards it's own nationals, and to make it easier for Shan in the country illegally to remain, would be to encourage further migration. In the great world of human tragedy, of course we would like all the peoples of Burma to be treated better both within and without their country, and we all have our own favourite causes. However it is easy to imagine what problems could be caused by a further significant influx of refugees, or economic migrants.

The Shan are not being persecuted, they are being treated like all the other economic migrants from Laos, Cambodia and Burma. As such they are very vulnerable to unscrupulous employers or policemen, but I think that even those moved by their situation are naive not to be aware of the larger picture. That includes not believing everything that you are told by an illegal immigrant, who has been told it by a corrupt policeman extorting a bribe.

Oh good God, Henry. What do you think whinging endlessly here is going to do to help your law-breaking friends? Write a letter to the editor, picket the police department, or set yourself on fire in the town square. Make yourself useful.

As I understand it, it is Thai Government policy to discourage the millions of Shan in Burma from coming to Thailand. Those, 200,000?, who have been accepted as legal refugees, are required to remain in refugee camps. Other Shan, in Thailand illegally, are considered to be economic migrants, and liable to deportation.

Thailand's first responsibility is understandably towards it's own nationals, and to make it easier for Shan in the country illegally to remain, would be to encourage further migration. In the great world of human tragedy, of course we would like all the peoples of Burma to be treated better both within and without their country, and we all have our own favourite causes. However it is easy to imagine what problems could be caused by a further significant influx of refugees, or economic migrants.

The Shan are not being persecuted, they are being treated like all the other economic migrants from Laos, Cambodia and Burma. As such they are very vulnerable to unscrupulous employers or policemen, but I think that even those moved by their situation are naive not to be aware of the larger picture. That includes not believing everything that you are told by an illegal immigrant, who has been told it by a corrupt policeman extorting a bribe.

I think just quoting this post does the job.

[dave_tf-old]

What a perfectly lovely topic heading under which to slip in a small farewell.

Life has made thoughts of even a brief return to Thailand pure fantasy. For many reasons--not the least of them financial--I cannot see myself returning there any time soon. So sticking around this board is committing the Buddhist sin of inflaming desire. OK, maybe that's not a Buddhist sin...but it ought to be.

Time to move on to something else--maybe exciting, maybe not--worth fantasizing about. If my world changes (and if the world's militaries aren't hording the last of the jet-fuel) I'll at least have Bob to clue me in on the latest (with pictures, no less).

My only other reason for being here is to argue the relative morality of different strains of whore-mongering--and that has gotten old.

I will miss the snappy dialogue and all the well-dressed posters. I do so love you all, except the ones I don't.

Anyway. Consider this the anti-flounce. A good life to you.

Dave.

I just talked with the latest Shan victim of this nonsense, and he offered a pretty clear explanation of the situation. There is, in fact, a new law, passed by the new democratically-elected government

If it is "fact", you presumably have some reference for it rather than just the word of a Shan bar-boy who has broken the law and wants some sympathy and, possibly, additional financial support from you? On the other hand, maybe not, again.

You are in danger of becoming even more tedious than me.

Brad the I, not picking on you as you may imagine, but your view of all Shan here legally being required to remain in refugee camps is not strictly correct; a considerable number, depending mainly on the area they are from, have had dispensation from HM to remain here permanently, are allowed to travel freely between Thailand and Myanmar on their Myanmar passport, and are issued with a Thai ID card (with a "pink" background) giving them the same rights as Thais. I know two, one working in Pattaya, one near Rayong

The first person who gave me his opinion was a farang, since departed, whom I considered a complete sex-maniac. The restaurant under discussion was Sum Sabaay, a "muu kathaa" joint about 300 yards away from my house. The sex-maniac farang was overjoyed to find available Shan boys working at this place. And, most especially, they were inexpensive. This particular sex maniac tried to get away for 300 baht, but would pay 500 for "something special." More than that, he had sex (as far as I could tell) every day -- and his pathetic attempts at pornographic pictures revealed that he was scraping the bottom of the barrel. He spent all this time having sex with homely boys.

But his opinion of the restaurant ran as follows: "Oh! It's great! The manager is gay, and only hires cute Shan boys to work as waiters there!! I have discovered a Secret Paradise in Thailand!!"

That day, or the next, I mentioned this to my former boyf, who replied that this was all total and complete bullshit. My former boyfriend has a lively interest in boys, and has spent a number of nights chatting and drinking with the Shan boys at that restaurant (Sum Sabaay). What he told me was very interesting, and very different.

"The manager of that restaurant takes the pink cards of the Shan boys and locks them up in his office. That means they cannot change jobs. He pays them 4000 baht per month, and the penalty for eating one BITE of food at the restaurant is 200 baht. He also makes them wash out the "kathaa" used in his "muu kathaa" place with bathroom cleaner. And..the boys aren't cute."

Can anyone really wonder why boys in a situation like this, straight out of Dickens, would be willing to jack off for 300 baht?

"Please sir, could I have some more?"

[Brad the Impala]

Brad the I, not picking on you as you may imagine, but your view of all Shan here legally being required to remain in refugee camps is not strictly correct; a considerable number, depending mainly on the area they are from, have had dispensation from HM to remain here permanently, are allowed to travel freely between Thailand and Myanmar on their Myanmar passport, and are issued with a Thai ID card (with a "pink" background) giving them the same rights as Thais. I know two, one working in Pattaya, one near Rayong

Happy to be corrected, as I don't know a lot about the subject, but just wanted to widen the perspective.

[thrillbill]

Ok, educate me what exactlly a Shan is. My Issan Thai BF doesn't seem to know what I am asking when I say the word, "Shan" so I must be pronouncing it wrong to him. I take it as a region north of Thailand (Burma) where these tribes people cross the border (illegally) to work for peanuts? Too bad they don't have the benefits as the illegal Mexicans that work in the US.

Well, your friend from Isaan will probably understand tai yai. "Shan" is actually a Burmese term for people who refer to themselves as "tai" -- "free."

The Shan, or tai-yai, are very, very close to the Thai in terms of genes, origin, and language. The Shan language, along with Thai and Laotian, forms a large language "family" which is closely interrelated. In fact, and this point is a little complicated, that Burmese term for the tai-yai, "Shan," is actually a corruption of "Siam." Which means that the ethnic Burmese look upon the tai-yai as just a bunch of Thai cousins.

At this point, we need to get into the relation between ethnic groups in Burma. The Burmese "proper" speak a language completely unrelated to Thai or any Tai family -- Burmese comes from the Sino-Tibetan side (as do Karen and Akha, btw). And, from all the available evidence, the wicked and corrupt government of Burma is basically practicing genocide and mass theft against the Shan. It seems that the Burmese have decided that all Shan territory should actually belong to them, so they are stealing it all, and wantonly killing any Shan who have objections. Since the Shan have no arms (and no allies), they have been fleeing to Thailand in droves. The Shan States in Burma are now almost depopulated of young men, and estimates run as high as 2 million Shan (!) in Thailand, compared to an estimated 6 million total.

For more information, drop the word "Shan" into Google, and happy hunting!

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Oppressed minorities

"Charm Tong belongs to BurmaтАЩs largest ethnic minority, the Shan. Ethnic minorities help make Burma a land of dazzling human diversity, with groups such as the Naga, Akha, Kachin, Karenni, and Pa-O making up a third of the 50 million population.

cont..

"Unlike some other ethnic minorities from Burma, the Shan have no refugee status in Thailand, and therefore no official protection or support. Many risk arrest and ill-treatment as illegal manual labourers, and desperate young women and men are lured into the sex trade."

http://siu.no/magazine/conferences-and- ... charm-tong (http://siu.no/magazine/conferences-and-publications/global-knowledge/issues/no-2-2006/charm-tong)

He also makes them wash out the "kathaa" used in his "muu kathaa" place with bathroom cleaner.

Perhaps you can explain why any restaurant owner would "make" his staff use bathroom cleaner to clean dishes when dish washing fluid is no more expensive.

Ethnic minorities help make Burma a land of dazzling human diversity

And the current Burmese government is doing anything in its power to end that situation.

Question 3: I take umbrage with the farang who wrote asking why Thai drivers are so bad. If nothing else, they are predictable, which is more than I can say for farang drivers here: some are insecure and drive far too slowly; some fear the police and drive much too cautiously; some seem to forget to drive on the left side of the road or are drunk and drive too fast or recklessly. A more important question is: Why are farang always held responsible for all costs pertaining to traffic accidents? Perfect example: I was on my motorbike turning right into a parking lot when another motorbike tried passing me on the right. He crashed into me and sustained injuries and damage to his bike. My motorbike was confiscated by police and I was made to pay all damages as well as hospital bills and a тАЬfineтАЭ to police. Several months later, I was passing traffic in the right hand lane (just within or on the dividing line) when a motorbike in front of me began turning right. I crashed into him. (Identical accident but my role was reversed). We both sustained bodily injuries and damage to our motorbikes. I AGAIN had to pay for everything PLUS pay a тАЬfineтАЭ to police. Does justice exist in Thailand?

Mrs. Stick says: I think you know that the police are selective about who they target and how they are treated here. If I get stopped by the police even if I drive too fast or badly I never get a ticket and I never pay a fine. I can talk sweetly to them and smile and apologise and they always let me go. But I think for men it is more difficult and I think for foreigners the police know that you have money so they can make you pay. They think if you pay it will hurt you less than if the other person pays. I know this is different from your country and I know that many foreigners do not like or understand the Thai police style. Did you know that the police also pick on vehicles with licence plates from the countryside? So it is not only foreigners who get blamed for accidents.

Mr. Stick says: It is my understanding that in a situation like this that you should call your insurance company and they will sort everything out including any payment. They have a schedule of payments for all situations and in this case I believe any payment should have been covered by the personal liability aspect of your insurance policy. All you should be paying is a fine to the police, official or otherwise. Of course if you have no insurance then that is another situation all together.

The less expensive version has apparently arrived!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuzZUOP4Pn8

Music: "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow," by Tor+. From his album, Piano and I, Volume II.