NGO knocking on the door

Today as I was getting ready to leave the house for breakfast, 2 farangs rang the gate bell. I saw that 2 others were across the street at my neighbors gate. When I opened the gate they introduced themselves and said they wanted to talk to me about what the Bible (Christian) says about saving me and the many sins in Pattaya. I could not believe it. I just glarred at them and then one said "Not your cup of tea?" Well since he asked...........

"Why would I talk about that with you. Religion has killed more people in the world because each must feel superior. I moved to Thailand to escape the radical Christians of the west. As a Gay man I am tired of people thinking I need saved."

Of course I knew there would be some reply. "God loves you. He just does not like your sinning and has sent us to help save you."

I just shook my head. And hit the remote to shut the gate.

This is the first time I have experienced this in Pattaya. I noticed that the group had 10 members, 2 in a team.

Now I don't want to give a wrong impression. Some of my best friends are Christians.

[TrongpaiExpat]

They might have been in Bangkok too. Not long ago, I was sitting at Dick's, soi twilight, and a parade of Western middle aged men/women pairs were parading down the soi. They were led by some old guy with his hand rising up to heaven and everyone was clutching a bible. They did not look at anyone and keep their eyes straight ahead, presumably avoiding the possibility of being turned into a pillar of salt.

First pass they were silent then latter returned singing something religious. The door touts did not try to get any of them to see the "show now-show now"

I wonder how they knew to knock at your door?

Sound more like Jesus freak evangelists than NGO workers.

I saw some Mormons yesterday in the computer mall. Earnest, blond Midwesterners. Blushing cornfed chubs. Not my cup of tea, but why, it might be fun to tempt them into a life of gluttony, lust and sloth.

[Aunty]

.......... but why, it might be fun to tempt them into a life of gluttony, lust and sloth.

Blushing cornfed chubs????

I think they know that already!

[Aunty]

Today as I was getting ready to leave the house for breakfast, 2 farangs rang the gate bell. I saw that 2 others were across the street at my neighbors gate. When I opened the gate they introduced themselves and said they wanted to talk to me about what the Bible (Christian) says about saving me and the many sins in Pattaya. I could not believe it. I just glarred at them and then one said "Not your cup of tea?" Well since he asked...........

"Why would I talk about that with you. Religion has killed more people in the world because each must feel superior. I moved to Thailand to escape the radical Christians of the west. As a Gay man I am tired of people thinking I need saved."

Of course I knew there would be some reply. "God loves you. He just does not like your sinning and has sent us to help save you."

I just shook my head. And hit the remote to shut the gate.

This is the first time I have experienced this in Pattaya. I noticed that the group had 10 members, 2 in a team.

Now I don't want to give a wrong impression. Some of my best friends are Christians.

And I hope that after you had finished admonishing these sinning bums in the name of the Risen Lord, Jesus Christ, (Amen Lord) that you pointed to their feet and said, 'The baby Jesus doesn't like men who wear those shoes. You'll never get to heaven in that footwear!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBhbzLjE6w

[catawampuscat]

We are fortunate that the christian missionaries failed in their efforts to convert Thailand from Buddhism to
one of their guilt ridden sects.

There is a hot movie about a Mormon boy who realizes he is gay and gets involved with some gay men and
all of this causes heaps of trouble with his family and his fellow bicycling Mormons friends freak out. I recall
finding one of the non-Mormon gay guys really steamy but can't recall the name of the film but remember
enjoying it.. :cat:

Of course I knew there would be some reply. "God loves you. He just does not like your sinning and has sent us to help save you."

I am sure you need a work permit "to save sinners" :drunken:

I am sure you need a work permit "to save sinners" :drunken:There is in fact a special class of visa for religious workers. I'm sure that the 50% of members of this Board who spend a considerable amount of time on their knees, may feel that they qualify

Non-immigrant (R) visa.

You should have asked them if they thought Jesus was gay?
Why not ... He was an unmarried man in his 30's, living in a culture where not being married at that age was almost unheard of and ... don't forget the twelve boyfriends.
Remember to mention that the appostle John repeatedly refers to himself as the one that Jesus 'specially loved'. Was that meant in the Greek sense? Who knows - you're guess is as good as mine. But what would it matter if it did?
Would it matter if the sermon on the mount was preached by the Queen of Queens rather than the King of Kings?

It is also said that John was the only one allowed to rest his head on the bosom (chest) of Jesus. Gotta wonder what his hands and lips were doing while his face was on Jesus's chest. BTW the gay mormon movie is LATER DAYS, and it is a great movie on most every level.

It's funny, I once knew an elderly gay man who was converted by two Mormon hunks. The psychology is/was obvious: it was so long since any handsome young man had displayed any interest at all in Steve, that he decided it was better to switch than fight. Then he began posting anti-gay reviews on Amazon.

Hmm...I have an entire file filled with his pre-conversion correspondence....

As for Jesus and his beloved disciple, I looked into this once, wondering if the word "love" hid the Greek agape (love of all men), philia (friendship), or eros. I was quite disappointed to find out it was agape. But who knows how many hands fiddled with the four gospels?

And who cares? It remains true that Big Jeez said not a word about "homosexuality." It was all "Saint" Paul, who was a real piece of work.

[francois]

It is also said that John was the only one allowed to rest his head on the bosom (chest) of Jesus. Gotta wonder what his hands and lips were doing while his face was on Jesus's chest. BTW the gay mormon movie is LATER DAYS, and it is a great movie on most every level.

You can get this film, Latter Days, at DUCS in Sunnee Plaza. I recall it is in English with French subtitles which cannot be deleted but good French.Very romantic!

[Bob]

Met a group of mormans in Luang Prabang who were on holiday there from their usual job of trying to convert the pagans in Cambodia.
Was walking the back streets of Chiangmai a couple of years back and heard this god-awful singing which became louder and louder as I approached. Turns out it was a couple of hundred thai kids being taught "Onward Christian Soldiers" by some group of western christian "faithful."

Frankly, falang and their versions of whatever goofy religion serve, in my opinion, to only fuck up the indigenous culture. While I generally believe in freedom of religion (which also includes the hopeful freedom not to have my brain listen to most of that crap), it's my view that one of the best protections of local culture would be to totally ban foreigners from entering the country to attempt to convert the natives. Why would anybody want to dump all that guilt (usually) on a simple buddhist?

As a side note, mormans never have sex standing up as they wouldn't want anyone to ever accuse them of dancing. :bigsmurf:

[fedssocr]

I saw a pair of Mormon missionaries on the SkyTrain a couple of years ago. It made me very uneasy and a little angry. Why can't they just let the Buddhists be Buddhists? Why the need to spread their crazy cult all over the place?

[Bob]

I saw a pair of Mormon missionaries on the SkyTrain a couple of years ago. It made me very uneasy and a little angry. Why can't they just let the Buddhists be Buddhists? Why the need to spread their crazy cult all over the place?

Exactly my sentiments.
As I understand it, the morman faith believes that only 144,000 people will be saved - and I really wanted to ask those morman missionaries why the fuck they couldn't find that many idiots in Utah to "save." (hell, a dozen guys and their 450 wives ought to be able to pump out that many in 20 years or so!).

[Smiles]

Lots of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses trundling around here in the valleys. They all wear cheap dusty shoes and have really bad skin problems . . . which is usually a consequence of masturbating only once every three years or so.

Cheers ...

Come on guys! A lot of those Morman Missionaries are very cute! Be friendly, you never know how a kind gesture might tempt a boy to explore...

[Bob]

. . . which is usually a consequence of masturbating only once every three years or so.


Your mission, Mr. Phelps, if you choose to accept it, is to find photographs of Joseph Smith (and/or Warren Jeffs) in tightie whities so that our Utah brethren can wank a bit more. For the females, perhaps some sexy music from the Morman Grabbersnatcher Choir?

[catawampuscat]

thanks soi 10 tom and francois.. the film I was trying to recall the title of was Latter Days and is well worth a look if you ever had
a fantasy or even a thought about the young male missionaries. :cat:

[gearguy]

The official website.
http://www.latterdaysmovie.com/

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

they always are young and fresh faced aren't they ?

The last time this happened to me was in London -2 in their late teens in the uniform of white shirts and black pants..

I said "I'lyou can tell me about Jesus if I can suck your cocks at the same time"..sadly they fled red-faced which was annoying because I was genuine.

Use this line everytime-one day you are bound to strike it lucky. Imagine-all that pent up sexual energy ! :cheers:

Have you heard about the Mormon Underwear?

Click here to discover MAGIC MORMON UNDERPANTS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU)

[/quote]Have you heard about the Mormon Underwear?


The related youtube offerings are entertaing including, www.mormom-underwear.com (http://www.mormom-underwear.com)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxWACrSd8bg&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxWACrSd8bg&NR=1)

Kept me amused for hours wandering through the intricate web of links

they always are young and fresh faced aren't they ?

The last time this happened to me was in London -2 in their late teens in the uniform of white shirts and black pants..

I said "I'lyou can tell me about Jesus if I can suck your cocks at the same time"..sadly they fled red-faced which was annoying because I was genuine.

Use this line everytime-one day you are bound to strike it lucky. Imagine-all that pent up sexual energy ! :cheers:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOEKDur_Vk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOEKDur_Vk)

[cottmann]

.... And who cares? It remains true that Big Jeez said not a word about "homosexuality." It was all "Saint" Paul, who was a real piece of work.

The delightfully named Episcopalian Bishop John Spong is among those who have suggested that Paul's attitude arose from his own suppressed desires for other men, i.e., that he was a "self-loathing and repressed gay male." He also said that "seeing St. Paul as a homosexual has helped [me] understand the apostle's anguished cries ("Wretched man that I am!"), his apparent hostility toward women ("wives submit to your husbands") and the fact that he never married."

I first came to Thailand to work with some Christians who work with the Karen and Burmese refugees.
Then I found Pattaya........

Last time I left Thailand, at the sunaam bin, there was a group of Christian Young people (a youth group) who had no doubt been to Thailand where there is a 'great need' (apparently) to convert the locals. I didn't talk to them because I would have ended up yelling and screaming at them to just stay the fuck away and let these people live there lives. Funny how time has changed me, do what you like in your own country but don't try to come here to fuck this place up as well - mind you seems to be happening anyway.

And the thing about Mormons is that they all seem young and cute, next time I'll use Lunchtimes line.

[thrillbill]

In the United States you find various church individuals that feel that they have to go overseas to convert "sinners" to their type of Christian belief; thus, they solicit cash from their church congregation (poor retired church ladies as an example) or from the church's headquarters. Thinking of just staying in their own country or city and helping the poor or needy is beyond their thinking. They have get a free flight, be financially supported to travel around in these "unsaved" countries, stay in hotels and so forth... Then when they return, they give a flashy powerpoint presentation on how many people they have converted. How much money was wasted on these "visitors" that could have been spent back in their own communities?

[piston10]

Many years ago I was walking in a London street with a very dear and lovely friend of mine who was an ordained clergyman. He was not wearing a dog-collar at the time. We were approached by a couple of callow youths, one of whom stood right in his path and asked "Have you been saved by Jesus yet?". To my amazement my friend replied "Oh, f**k off!", pushed him aside and and walked on. I have always assumed that this incident endorsed my right to react like Lunchtime, or in any other way the spirit moved me.

To my amazement my friend replied "Oh, f**k off!". pushed him aside and and walked onMy gay cousin Cedric, an Anglican bishop similarly dressed in mufti was once in my presence asked if he had found the Lord. He replied, "I didn't know He was lost"

[jimnbkk]

Along this same line, although not about Thailand specifically, in today's Washington Post, Al Kamen's column is worth quoting:

"Having an "auto-replace" filter seemed like a good notion at the time to folks at the conservative American Family Association's OneNewsNow.com Web site. There were certain words that would pop up from time to time in the Associated Press stories that moved onto the site that were a bit salacious, or unacceptable to post.

"We don't have the staff to monitor all the Hollywood stories," news director Fred Jackson said yesterday, "so we wanted an automated function." He said they put up the filter about a month or so ago.

One word they wanted to filter was "gay." The site felt that the term put the matter of homosexuality "in a positive light," Jackson said, when the evangelical Christian organization was much opposed. So when a wire story referred to gay marriage, for example, the phrase would automatically appear as "homosexual marriage."

Worked fine until Sunday, when the AP reported that "Tyson Homosexual easily won his semifinal for the 100 meters at the U.S. Olympic track and field trials." The story was headlined "Homosexual eases into 100 final at Olympic trials."

"On Saturday," the story said, "Homosexual misjudged the finish in his opening heat . . ."

That's world champion sprinter Tyson Gay, of course.

The filtered stories were spotted by the liberal People for the American Way. The organization has a "Right Wing Watch Blog," communications director Peter Montgomery said, and folks "who monitor religious-right Web sites as part of watchdogging the religious right and its political allies."

The organization took a screen capture, he said, just before OneNewsNow fixed the text. An earlier story on the Web site referred to pro basketball player Rudy Homosexual, better known as Rudy Gay.


Apparently there were no references in the past month to writer Homosexual Talese or to the Enola Homosexual.

As with all good pieces of software, Jackson said, there are drawbacks. It was "a lesson for us to learn," he said. Jackson didn't know what other words were targeted, but "we have taken ['gay'] off the filter."

So at Christmas you can don that gay apparel. "

I share a lot of the attitudes towards farang missionaries, and wish they would all go home. But I do have to stop and consider, sometimes, that some Christian farang do a lot of good work. And when you contaminate any religion (including Buddhism) with racism, you wind up with hill-tribe boys being ignored by the Buddhist monks in Thailand.

And the Christians move right into that vacuum.

I mention this because my boyfriend considers himself to be a Christian, and his reasons for accepting the religion are exactly those outlined above. When he was young, and starving, and in need of a helping hand, the only people around were Christian missionaries, who kick-started his education and (thank God) did not preach drooling homophobia to him.

This guy is not at all dogmatic or conversion-minded; his religion sits on him very lightly. If he thinks about it a long time, he thinks that his religion says that gay lovers should be faithful and monogamous.

Well, life is funny, and produces unexpected surprises.

Side note to Mr. O'Booze: Why do you think those humpy Mormons are forced to travel in pairs? If they went around singly, they just might accept your offer. But in front of their buddy?? No way!!! :-)

[PeterUK]

To my amazement my friend replied "Oh, f**k off!", pushed him aside and and walked on.

Low Church, was he?

We're expected to tolerate these uninvited crusades from the religious types, but if I went around knocking on doors tring to persuade people to turn gay, there would be an uproar.

Some religions are openly hostile to our sexual preferences, yet society would not accept the same hostility in the other direction.

... if I went around knocking on doors tring to persuade people to turn gay, there would be an uproar.So being gay is an option for you, is it? I never realised I had a choice. But that's precisely what the Christians maintain - homosexuals choose their sexual orientation, and prey on the young to convert them. And homosexuality is a reversible condition, that can be cured through prayer and so on. You seem to have the same perspective - people can be persuaded to turn gay

[fedssocr]

I share a lot of the attitudes towards farang missionaries, and wish they would all go home. But I do have to stop and consider, sometimes, that some Christian farang do a lot of good work. And when you contaminate any religion (including Buddhism) with racism, you wind up with hill-tribe boys being ignored by the Buddhist monks in Thailand.



This is actually a very good point. I read an article last year I believe in the Washington Post about how Christians in Cambodia were the only ones helping the poor with things like basic education. Most of the people retained their Buddhist beliefs or ended up believing a mix of the two. But they also were very grateful that the Christians were there to help them since the government and Buddhist establishment was doing little to nothing for them. Now obviously I think it would be better if they would just go there to help people for the sake of being a caring, good human being rather than as an attempt to "save souls", there's just something unseemly about going to desperate, poor areas to do this work with the aim of winning people for Christ.

But they also were very grateful that the Christians were there to help them since the government and Buddhist establishment was doing little to nothing for them.I was once told by a friend (he was involved in the effort) that some American Rotarians tried to do some good once that required permits from the Thai bureaucracy. The sole interest the bureaucrats had was not the welfare of the people, but how much they could get in kick-backs to allow the project to proceed

I think that it is more than just a little interesting that Thai Buddhist do almost nothing to help the children of the poor and oppressed in their own country. I notice that almost all orphanages and other welfare activities for children, the poor, and oppressed in Thailand are conducted by Christians.

The Buddhist attitude is, "Your Karma, not for me to interfere." Thailand is a perfect example a religion having been kidnapped by the state in order to continue the oppression of the poor and to keep the rich, powerful and "chosen" in their positions of power. The poor are taught from birth that it is their Karma that has brought them to where they are, so they need to work hard, work for unity...meaning don't rock the boat, be peaceful, respectful of those above them, and content with their place in society in order to earn Karma and be reincarnated into a higher level of society.

Then in a further act of State/Religious brilliance in order to keep do gooders from coming from the higher levels of society to fight for the poor and oppressed of Thailand, as Gandhi did in India, the rich and powerful have been taught from birth that they have reached this station in life because of great Karma earned in previous lives and should therefore live life on a grand scale, make more money any way possible, and not be concerned with those in a lower position...it is for them to earn their own great Karma.

It would seem that Thai Buddhist have been taught to not judge others and to not help. Meanwhile Christians have been taught to judge everyone...and then help any way they can, thereby earning their way into Heaven. What a shame that these two groups can't come up with a hybrid religion that judges not and helps all. I suppose that is way to much to hope for....

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

To my amazement my friend replied "Oh, f**k off!". pushed him aside and and walked onMy gay cousin Cedric, an Anglican bishop similarly dressed in mufti was once in my presence asked if he had found the Lord. He replied, "I didn't know He was lost"

Is this the very same Cedric who is a beloved Sawatdee member ?

Fancy being related to you..and a Bishop to boot !

wonders will never cease.

Is this the very same Cedric who is a beloved Sawatdee member ?No, that is Young Master Cedric, an entirely different character. I call my cousin "Cedric" to protect the guilty - there are not, after all, that many diocesan bishops in England and I believe "outing" him is against Forum rules

[Smiles]

Whatever happened to Cedric? Last post was May 6.
I miss his surreal and totally undeserved sense of superiority ... as opposed to Herr Homintern's gutter level face-sitting exposes.
Lives in Hong Kong doesn't he?

Cheers ...

[Aunty]

Whatever happened to Cedric? Last post was May 6.
I miss his surreal and totally undeserved sense of superiority ... as opposed to Herr Homintern's gutter level face-sitting exposes.
Lives in Hong Kong doesn't he?

Cheers ...

I should imagine that an attractive young man like that, full of possibility, adventure and life, has had more than enough of all you sour, bitching, obsessive antiques, tossing your spite and resentments at each other, and has found something (or someone) else better to do.

[Dboy]

I have often stated that I think Thailand is much too tolerant of missionaries. I think they should all be kicked out of the country...and I can make a rational Thai Way argument for it. The King is a Buddhist. He represents the Buddhist faith in Thailand. It seems to me that converting people to the christian religion is a direct assault on the King. And Thai's who convert to christian are showing disrespect to the King. I say kick out the damn christians and other worthless cults and let the people enjoy their lives in peace. Christianity has NOTHING to offer anyone.

dboy

I don't like missionaries any more than you do, but I prefer a tolerant Thailand.

Who could possibly argue with such a well thought out plan?


I say kick out the damn christians and other worthless cults and let the people enjoy their lives in peace. Christianity has NOTHING to offer anyone.

dboy

Especially the Christians that pay for and run PLACES LIKE THIS (http://www.pattayaorphanage.org.uk/whatwedo/orphanage.cfm) . Really, you have excelled yourself with that little gem.

?????

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Asia has plenty of nuns and priests who do a great deal of good work and don't bible bash. The missonaries were dreadful..making people wear clothes etc (!!) but don't blame Christians collectively..not when I'm often compared to Jesus Christ.

[Wesley]

If they are two by two, they are most likely Mormon or Jehovah's Wittiness, don't confuse and NGO with religion they are two different things entirely.

Wesley

[Geezer]

... don't confuse and NGO with religion they are two different things entirely.

Wesley
Yes, the staff of farang NGOs will likely be driving expensive SUVs and living in luxury accommodation.

[Dboy]

Especially the Christians that pay for and run PLACES LIKE THIS (http://www.pattayaorphanage.org.uk/whatwedo/orphanage.cfm) . Really, you have excelled yourself with that little gem.


christians run orphanages so they will have vulnerable people to indoctrinate. No doubt they already got to you. I'm sure it wasn't difficult.

dboy

Yes, I'm sure those orphans would have a much better future sniffing glue in Sunee Plaza than staying in that horrible orphanage.

[Aunty]

... don't confuse and NGO with religion they are two different things entirely.

Wesley
Yes, the staff of farang NGOs will likely be driving expensive SUVs .............

How very fitting. A vulgar vehicle for equally vulgar people.

I think that it is more than just a little interesting that Thai Buddhist do almost nothing to help the children of the poor and oppressed in their own country. I notice that almost all orphanages and other welfare activities for children, the poor, and oppressed in Thailand are conducted by Christians.

It is "more than just a little interesting" that this is what often appears to be the case to farangs who "notice that almost all orphanages and other welfare activities for children, the poor, and oppressed" in places like Pattaya "are conducted by Christians" and they automatically assume that it is true throughout Thailand. It is not - far from it.

Simply because "Christian" organisations are more vocal and blow their own trumpet more, particularly and understandably amongst the expats, does not mean that Thais and Buddhists are doing "almost nothing" either in Pattaya or elsewhere. If, for example, you take time to look at the actual numbers helped by the most vocal and best known of these organisations in Pattaya (and how directly selective they are in terms of who they help) you, and others, may have a surprise.


It would seem that Thai Buddhist have been taught to not judge others and to not help.

Totally incorrect - to not help would be not to earn merit, thereby not earning the "karma" you refer to. Greed is not "taught" as part of Thai Buddhism, as you say seems to be the case - it is part of secular society, everywhere, and is hardly part of Buddhist or Thai teaching. You also appear a little confused over the concept of "karma", which is a Hindu concept not a Buddhist one.


Meanwhile Christians have been taught to judge everyone...and then help any way they can, thereby earning their way into Heaven.

They have also been taught, amongst other things, that only Christians can enter "Heaven" (the Kingdom of God) making it their automatic responsibility to try to convert others - something which Thai Buddhism does not try to do - and, more correctly, Christians are taught not to judge others (Matthew 7.1).