Power struggle in Pattaya

A few shockwaves are disturbing the gay scene in pattaya at the moment. Before I expand on that, a few terms of reference first. It doesnt matter whether you fly in on business class or save up for your once a year economy trip to paradise, whether you have a 3000baht a week room or a suite in a 4star hotel, whether you are retired to a beach view condo or survive in a 8000 baht a month studio. In your nice clothes and after a meal in casa pascal, or some snack at a Thai food cart, as soon as you step into Sunee or Boys town you are knowingly or unknowingly, tentativly or brazenly, moving into a criminal area where different rules apply. As soon as money is exchanged for sex, and no matter how you sugar coat it, thats what it is, you are moving into something that certainly is nothing like your life at home in the US or London or Australia.
Now of course, in ideal times this world is at peace, or at least fairly stable. Apart from the odd minor blip, Pattaya has seen a gay scene that is comfortable with itself for many years. This needs just one simple set of criteria; this is an understanding and tolerance between the 3 parties involved. These are 1) the police and authorites, 2) the owners of all the gay welcoming/tolerant clubs and bars, and lastly 3) the gay visitors. Dont forget that this relationship has to be strong enough to resist many negative pressures. These range from the basic Law of the Land (no prostitution), moral indignation from pressure groups no matter whether they are religious or social, and everchanging politics.
Over the past two months a lot has happened to disturb this equilibrium. First, the unstable Thai political situation which fuelled a minor economic crisis hit visitor numbers. The more scary global crisis we are now in also impacted.
A few weeks ago, a major purge against those who chase after the young boys who live off the area began. Three cheers and hooray we all hear, not before time. BUT there is a much larger layer of farangs who live above these unfortunates who for years have thought nothing about having relationships with boys of 16/17/18. They were always safe, never arrested and lets not pretend that the boys they liked were difficult to find, and in all sorts of bars.
I dont like biological analogies but these farangs are now bottom of the food chain and are quite rightly paranoid about being seen to do what they have done for years. Again, but perhaps slightly more muted, three cheers and hooray.
But now comes another BUT; all of a sudden farang numbers are dropping again with people not quite sure whether going into a gogo bar, sitting with a boy, getting caught on camera, being watched by watchers is now a good idea. The numerous bars and restaurants which need us all find there takings down, the weakest close, once busy sois full of atmosphere and lights start to darken and become less inviting and fun. The start of a viscious circle. Dont forget that the criminals who we never see who live off the 'scene' are also going to suffer. So to are the boys who work in the bars and are the single reason why we go there in the first place. Less farangs. less money , less reason for them to stay.
Now there are still many readers of this who are saying 'so what, who cares, none of this affects me.' Well apart from the potential closure of many gay businesses, there is the possibility that you might be next.
Back to the triumvirate of interested parties that have to live together for the scene to prosper. In reverse order this time 1) gay visitors are either scared to one degree or another, or simply looking elsewhere. 2) owners are finding their takings down. We all know that many of the big players in pattaya have moved away or are retiring. Small owners are not surviving. 3) the authorities are either under pressure from their own bosses, or new bosses, or are being massaged by NGO's and charities are increasingly being forced to rock their own boat.
So I think that some sort of power struggle is going on, a seismic shift in the status quo and everybody unsure about what is going to emerge in the year to come. At present, Sunee appears dead on its feet. Boys Town is being eroded bit by bit as gay places are taken over by different ones.The large number of gays who visit town and never put a foot wrong in terms of the legality of what they do must be as worried as the smaller number who do.

[francois]

A very astute observation, Lester. I soon shall observe first hand the situation in Pattaya.

[catawampuscat]

interesting concept Lester, and certainly the general mood in Sunee Plaza is down with the low season, the CCTV cameras and
possible uses of them, and police activites, but this has all happened before and seems to have cycles which ebb and flow.
granted, the CCTV cameras are a new issue especially in bars where one would rather not be filmed..

The same boy bars seem to be getting hit for the same reasons and the same owners still do the same things and one can
wonder if these bar owners just don't get it or if the profit is so huge that it is worth all the grief, fines, hassles etc..

Boy Bar owners come and go and over the years some survive and some don't..

The Pattaland soi boy bars are also in a down mood but less to do with age issues but rather drug issues and of course,
low season which happenens every year and every year the same people cry about the sky falling and I guess one day it will
but still the best party town for older gay men that I am aware of.. :cat:

[Dodger]

Lester, you raise a good point.

WeтАЩve all witnessed the ebb-and-tide in Pattaya as it shifts between low and high seasons, police raids, bars closing, names changing, etc., although I donтАЩt think the slump you see now is due to the economy, or even the CCTV cameras that are causing so much commotion. I think thereтАЩs something else in the air. I think that SOMETHING ELSE is a cop.

IтАЩm not sure if this high ranking guy is stationed in BKK or PTY, but, who ever he is, heтАЩs taking serious steps to clean up Dodge. From what IтАЩve observed lately, this тАЬtop copтАЭ is rolling out a strategy focused on drug trafficking and underage sex, as first witnessed during those Operation Rattlesnake Swat Team raids that stunned Sunee Plaza back in May and still has bar owners pulling their under ware out of their asses.

The only way that тАЬTop CopтАЭ could possibly permeate the crime scene and really do something impacting, is to first permeate that thick and mucky layer of corruption that lies between him and the rest of the world. In short, that means he has to clean up the Boys in Brown (BIB).

The police involved with Operation Rattlesnake were REAL POLICE, not those beer-bellied bozoтАЩs who masquerade around in those crap colored uniforms wrapped tightly around their fat bellies with those smug looks on their ignorant faces, but the real deal. These Operation Rattlesnake guys wore starched and pressed khaki uniforms with spit-shined combat boots. No beer bellies here. These guys actually looked professional which cast an even poorer light on the BozoтАЩs in Brown, if thatтАЩs even possible.

I also believe that the worst problem these REAL POLICE have during a crime raid, is the BozoтАЩs in Brown, as these are the guys who are tipping off the bar owners about raids, and thatтАЩs the way itтАЩs always been. The neighborhood BozoтАЩs in Brown suck bribe money out of the bars just like the mafia lieutenants due on the streets of Chicago. Then of course their eyes are closed to other less insignificant things in life like drug trafficking, bar owners operating illegally, and of course, all those 10 year old boys running around the place selling blow jobs.

I sat at a bar in Sunee Plaza the night of the first big raid was launched and watched this thing unfold. First, as always, the bar owners were informed, not only that there was going to be a police raid that night, but the exact time that the raid was to occur. Gee, I just wonder who could have informed them???тАжduh! The last thing the BozoтАЩs in Brown want is to have REAL POLICE running around on their turf witnessing the blatant lack of control which could only be attributed to one thing, and one thing onlyтАжmass corruption.

They, the BozoтАЩs in Brown, are actually the тАЬroot causeтАЭ of the decay that weтАЩve all witnessed over the years.

Since this new Top Cop has taken over, you will actually get a ticket in Pattaya for not wearing a motorbike helmet. Yes, I know that law was enacted several years ago, but it was enforced by the BozoтАЩs in Brown, who enforced it the same way they enforce everything else. One day you would get a ticket for not wearing your helmet, but for the next 3 weeks you were OK. My BF actually knew the right days. This is almost humorous. Well, thatтАЩs changing too. I wore my helmet every single day in April and May because I knew if I didnтАЩt I would get a ticket, and everyone else knew that too. I see this as part of the same dynamics that youтАЩre referring to Lester, only the effects of whatтАЩs happening are much more focused in my opinion, with little impact stemming from other social and economical influences.

The good news, the way I see it anyway, is that this new and aggression police (real police) strategy to clean up Dodge doesnтАЩt, as ridiculous as this is going to sound, appear to be focused on the sex industry, or for that fact, the gay sex industry either. It seems to be focused on containing the current # 1 social problem affecting the Kingdom, which is the gushing river of yaba flowing all the way from Myanmar to the sois of Sunee, the high number of kids running around selling sex, and, of course, the pedos they attract.

Another reason for me drawing this conclusion, is that LOS is suffering from more than just having a weak economyтАжtheyтАЩre suffering from not even having an economy to begin with. The last thing theyтАЩre going to do is chop 12% off their GNP coming from the pink dollar under these conditions. They will continue to walk the fine line between the rice fields and the neon lights as they have done for decades. Get a handle on the yaba flow, clean up the streets a little to appease the NGOтАЩs, and send those Beer-Bellied BozoтАЩs in Brown back to the rice patties they came from. WouldnтАЩt that be nice !

All said, I think things will have a way of working out as they always have in the past. Now, if and when LOS develops a real economy, maybe weтАЩll have something to worry about. How about the year 2100?

Mai pen rai

Lester, you raise a good point.

WeтАЩve all witnessed the ebb-and-tide in Pattaya as it shifts between low and high seasons, police raids, bars closing, names changing, etc., although I donтАЩt think the slump you see now is due to the economy, or even the CCTV cameras that are causing so much commotion. I think thereтАЩs something else in the air. I think that SOMETHING ELSE is a cop.

IтАЩm not sure if this high ranking guy is stationed in BKK or PTY, but, who ever he is, heтАЩs taking serious steps to clean up Dodge. From what IтАЩve observed lately, this тАЬtop copтАЭ is rolling out a strategy focused on drug trafficking and underage sex, as first witnessed during those Operation Rattlesnake Swat Team raids that stunned Sunee Plaza back in May and still has bar owners pulling their under ware out of their asses.

The only way that тАЬTop CopтАЭ could possibly permeate the crime scene and really do something impacting, is to first permeate that thick and mucky layer of corruption that lies between him and the rest of the world. In short, that means he has to clean up the Boys in Brown (BIB).

The police involved with Operation Rattlesnake were REAL POLICE, not those beer-bellied bozoтАЩs who masquerade around in those crap colored uniforms wrapped tightly around their fat bellies with those smug looks on their ignorant faces, but the real deal. These Operation Rattlesnake guys wore starched and pressed khaki uniforms with spit-shined combat boots. No beer bellies here. These guys actually looked professional which cast an even poorer light on the BozoтАЩs in Brown, if thatтАЩs even possible.

I also believe that the worst problem these REAL POLICE have during a crime raid, is the BozoтАЩs in Brown, as these are the guys who are tipping off the bar owners about raids, and thatтАЩs the way itтАЩs always been. The neighborhood BozoтАЩs in Brown suck bribe money out of the bars just like the mafia lieutenants due on the streets of Chicago. Then of course their eyes are closed to other less insignificant things in life like drug trafficking, bar owners operating illegally, and of course, all those 10 year old boys running around the place selling blow jobs.

I sat at a bar in Sunee Plaza the night of the first big raid was launched and watched this thing unfold. First, as always, the bar owners were informed, not only that there was going to be a police raid that night, but the exact time that the raid was to occur. Gee, I just wonder who could have informed them???тАжduh! The last thing the BozoтАЩs in Brown want is to have REAL POLICE running around on their turf witnessing the blatant lack of control which could only be attributed to one thing, and one thing onlyтАжmass corruption.

They, the BozoтАЩs in Brown, are actually the тАЬroot causeтАЭ of the decay that weтАЩve all witnessed over the years.

Since this new Top Cop has taken over, you will actually get a ticket in Pattaya for not wearing a motorbike helmet. Yes, I know that law was enacted several years ago, but it was enforced by the BozoтАЩs in Brown, who enforced it the same way they enforce everything else. One day you would get a ticket for not wearing your helmet, but for the next 3 weeks you were OK. My BF actually knew the right days. This is almost humorous. Well, thatтАЩs changing too. I wore my helmet every single day in April and May because I knew if I didnтАЩt I would get a ticket, and everyone else knew that too. I see this as part of the same dynamics that youтАЩre referring to Lester, only the effects of whatтАЩs happening are much more focused in my opinion, with little impact stemming from other social and economical influences.

The good news, the way I see it anyway, is that this new and aggression police (real police) strategy to clean up Dodge doesnтАЩt, as ridiculous as this is going to sound, appear to be focused on the sex industry, or for that fact, the gay sex industry either. It seems to be focused on containing the current # 1 social problem affecting the Kingdom, which is the gushing river of yaba flowing all the way from Myanmar to the sois of Sunee, the high number of kids running around selling sex, and, of course, the pedos they attract.

Another reason for me drawing this conclusion, is that LOS is suffering from more than just having a weak economyтАжtheyтАЩre suffering from not even having an economy to begin with. The last thing theyтАЩre going to do is chop 12% off their GNP coming from the pink dollar under these conditions. They will continue to walk the fine line between the rice fields and the neon lights as they have done for decades. Get a handle on the yaba flow, clean up the streets a little to appease the NGOтАЩs, and send those Beer-Bellied BozoтАЩs in Brown back to the rice patties they came from. WouldnтАЩt that be nice !

All said, I think things will have a way of working out as they always have in the past. Now, if and when LOS develops a real economy, maybe weтАЩll have something to worry about. How about the year 2100?

Mai pen rai

We (well at least I) will never really understand what's going on in the BIB force.
As far as I understood from "inside" info, the Pattaya BIB used to "take care" the venues on Sunnee Pattayaland and other Sois here and there in Pattaya. IF there was some kind of 'aggressive looking' raid, it was most of the times by the BKK BIB. Barowners, were warned by the Pattaya BIB when the BKK BIB were about to raid a place.

The kaky boys are no more than a bunch of nice dressed police volunteers OR some extra hands from the Navy Base in Sattahip.

There seems to be a "super cop" at the head of Pattaya BIB nowadays; it's a former high ranked police officer from BKK, who cleaned up BKK Silom area some years ago. He is not only keen on cleaning up the streets of Pattaya, but also to clean up the Pattaya BIB force.

As far as I understood from "inside" info, the Pattaya BIB used to "take care" the venues on Sunnee Pattayaland and other Sois here and there in Pattaya. IF there was some kind of 'aggressive looking' raid, it was most of the times by the BKK BIB. Barowners, were warned by the Pattaya BIB when the BKK BIB were about to raid a place.

Hmm...I think that's what is generally referred to as "corruption".

Are you saying that the gay community in Pattaya is happier with a corrupt police force, and could therefore be said to be pro-corruption?

Expand, please.

[puckered_penguin]

IтАЩm not sure if this high ranking guy is stationed in BKK or PTY, but, who ever he is, heтАЩs taking serious steps to clean up Dodge. From what IтАЩve observed lately, this тАЬtop copтАЭ is rolling out a strategy focused on drug trafficking and underage sex,
It could be that the top cop has found an easy way to make money. Arrest the guy with underage boys and then agree not to prosecute the case for a mere 500,000. Another scam is to raid a bar and hit it with a closure notice then allow an early reopening for say 200,000 baht and double the monthly bib protection money. Fast cash and over the longterm higher monthly income. Or of course you could be right Dodger, a clean cop has hit town.



Another reason for me drawing this conclusion, is that LOS is suffering from more than just having a weak economyтАжtheyтАЩre suffering from not even having an economy to begin with. The last thing theyтАЩre going to do is chop 12% off their GNP coming from the pink dollar under these conditions. They will continue to walk the fine line between the rice fields and the neon lights as they have done for decades. Get a handle on the yaba flow, clean up the streets a little to appease the NGOтАЩs, and send those Beer-Bellied BozoтАЩs in Brown back to the rice patties they came from. WouldnтАЩt that be nice !

All said, I think things will have a way of working out as they always have in the past. Now, if and when LOS develops a real economy, maybe weтАЩll have something to worry about. How about the year 2100?
Thailand has a thriving economy, though heavily reliant on exports. Read the Economic Review published with The Bangkok Post today 6/30/08. I hope that you are not reaching your conclusions, Dodger, on the Thai Economy from sitting on a barstoool in Sunee Plaza. The pink dollar is 12% of GNP- really?

[bkkguy]

There seems to be a "super cop" at the head of Pattaya BIB nowadays; it's a former high ranked police officer from BKK, who cleaned up BKK Silom area some years ago. He is not only keen on cleaning up the streets of Pattaya, but also to clean up the Pattaya BIB force.

things look good for pattaya then because the "super cop" really did a great job in Silom, just ask anyone in the area - all the corrupt police are gone from the Bang Rak police station, the bars all have proper licenses and close on time, there is no porn sold openly on the street, there are no fucking shows in the bars, there is no underage sex offered in the bars, no drugs around .....

bkkguy

just ask anyone in the area .....

bkkguy

The 19 yo boy outside MacDonalds who says he's 15 now? The decoys flying by on the escalators amidst the hidden CCTV cameras?

[allieb]

Thailand has a thriving economy, though heavily reliant on exports. Read the Economic Review published with The Bangkok Post today 6/30/08. I hope that you are not reaching your conclusions, Dodger, on the Thai Economy from sitting on a barstoool in Sunee Plaza. The pink dollar is 12% of GNP- really?

I would also put it at about 12 % and that puts a lot of food on the table for a lot of people and directly so not having to filter down through the system like income form exports.

And before any smart arse asks where I get my12% from. I don't have official numbers I feel that number quoted by Dodger is about right according to my eyes which are wide open without rose tinted glasses when I'm in Thailand.

They will continue to walk the fine line between the rice fields and the neon lights as they have done for decades.

What a gem of a sentence. The trouble with predicting the weather from within the eye of the storm however, is that none of us have access to the satellite. Best to batten down and take cautious steps. I, for one, hope the strong winds blow away some of the garbage.

As far as I understood from "inside" info, the Pattaya BIB used to "take care" the venues on Sunnee Pattayaland and other Sois here and there in Pattaya. IF there was some kind of 'aggressive looking' raid, it was most of the times by the BKK BIB. Barowners, were warned by the Pattaya BIB when the BKK BIB were about to raid a place.

Hmm...I think that's what is generally referred to as "corruption".

Are you saying that the gay community in Pattaya is happier with a corrupt police force, and could therefore be said to be pro-corruption?

Expand, please.

I didn't mention 'corruption' in my post. Whether the bar owners are happier with corrupt BIB and therefore pro-corruption is an easy conclusion. Ever heard of the best choice of two bad possibilities.

... you are moving into something that certainly is nothing like your life at home in the US or London or Australia.What a sheltered life you must lead, but I don't think you should assume that all Board members are like you