Possible closing of gay saunas in Thailand

I have heard that the gay activist - Khun Nattee from Chiang Mai, is still pushing to have all gay saunas in Thailand closed, to help stop the spread of HIV.

He was on television discussing it a month or two ago and an article quoting him was published in at least one Thai newspaper the following day. Apparently he is currently in Bangkok, attempting to convince the authorities of the necessity to close all the saunas, because of the high rate of HIV infection in gay saunas.

Natee better be very careful he doesn't get his eyes scratched out.

Instead of lobbying to close down the saunas (would he prefer people did it in public toilets, parks, and dark parking lots?), he should be lobbying for regulations related to the dissemination of AIDS education and safe sex paraphernalia therein.

We're waiting for his third post.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Whoever this Khun Nattee from Chiang Mai is, he's not well published. The only Khun Nattee I find on google is the Thai director of Prisons:

"Bangkwang jail, Thailand
Tempted to take a little marijuana on your fortnight package tour of Thailand? It may be unwise unless you want to end up in the infamous тАЬBangkok HotelтАЭ.
In recent years the prison's population has trebled to 7,000 and the guards are out-numbered 50-1. Every inmate there is serving more than 25 years and for the first three months of their sentence each is forced to wear leg irons.
Inside Building 10, prisoners are held in solitary confinement in pitch-black cells two metres square wearing тАЬelephant chainsтАЭ for months on end.
тАЬThai prisons are tough," says Director of Prisons Khun Nattee in a superfluous warning to tourists. "You don't want to be in Bangkwang."

Another guy or an old job?

If Purachai couldn't close the saunas I don't see how some self proclaimed activist with no official position can do anything. Thai TV will interview anyone with any crazy story.

Natee Teerarojjanapong (this is the usual spelling of his name) has been the number one most visible and prolific gay rights advocate in Thailand for decades.

Try this:

http://bkkmindscape.blogspot.com/2008/03/gay-sauna-peril.html

and the follow-up:

http://bkkmindscape.blogspot.com/2008/03/gay-sauna-peril-2.html

[TrongpaiExpat]

Thanks.

"Some men who visit saunas can have sex with up to 20 men a night."

Alright!

Thank you Khun Chao Na, for the relevant information concerning Khun Natee and his current anti sauna campaign.

You are welcome, Fred. Whenever I see a new poster about to be set upon by the dog pack, I feel the call to give a helping hand.

[TrongpaiExpat]

The blog, " Bangkok of the mind
Going 'ba' Thai: pretty Thai boys, celebrity gossip, and gay tales from a foreigner and his Thai friends." in the provided link is quite interesting too.

Thanks

Whoever this Khun Nattee from Chiang Mai is, he's not well published. The only Khun Nattee I find on google is the Thai director of Prisons:


Is it this K.Nattee? Nattee Teerarojanpongs (http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/article.php?articleid=2103&viewarticle=1&searchtype=all)

Yes. Same-same. TrongpaiExpat's google skills appear to be a little lacking.

[Aunty]

Well if Thai and Fa rang are refusing to practice safe sex in the Saunas, it's probably not a bad idea to shut them down on public health and safety grounds. The prospect of closure might help to focus a few minds as to their responsibilities.

Good idea, Aunty. Let's close down bars, too, because people get drunk there and drink drive. And supermarkets because they sell cigarettes which give people cancer. And restaurants, because people over-eat at them and give themselves high blood pressure and cholesterol.

It is not the fault of the premises for what SOME people -- not all -- do there. Yet you want to close them down?

[Aunty]

Good idea, Aunty. Let's close down bars, too, because people get drunk there and drink drive. And supermarkets because they sell cigarettes which give people cancer. And restaurants, because people over-eat at them and give themselves high blood pressure and cholesterol.

It is not the fault of the premises for what SOME people -- not all -- do there. Yet you want to close them down?

All the businesses you mentioned above are subject to some form of regulation or another, and for very good reason. Why not Saunas? Food premises are often shut when their lack of safe food hygiene threatens their customer's health. Why shouldn't a sauna be closed if it doesn't make any effort re HIV/AIDS prevention and control?

There's nothing special or sacred about a sauna you know, just becuase you (and others) pull yourselves off in it.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Yes. Same-same. TrongpaiExpat's google skills appear to be a little lacking.

I couldn't spell Natee Teerarojjanapong to save my life. I can't even say it, I'm no geenyus

Aunty, can't quite follow your logic perhaps you need to expand on that a bit more before getting attacked. Also, if you leave off the little insults, you might be taken seriously otherwise it's it's just asking for a food fight.

Look at the number of posts:
You have 1421 posts and I am at 1422, what's the odds of that?

... you might be taken seriously ... Why would you bother?

[Uranus]

Sweden had a ban on gay saunas for nearly 20 years. Lawmakers finally realised it had absolutely no effect on HIV prevention and scrapped the law.

Aunty, can't quite follow your logic

Aunty draws a conclusion on a preposterous assumption supposedly making that assumption a foregone conclusion of the group, which it is not. It's a common TRICK used by the Colonel in his 'other' manifestations, in order to fool the uninitiated. Odd, how suddenly he is no longer AWOL, as Aunty too just suddenly appears out of thin air. ODD, isn't it?

Good idea, Aunty. Let's close down bars, too, because people get drunk there and drink drive. And supermarkets because they sell cigarettes which give people cancer. And restaurants, because people over-eat at them and give themselves high blood pressure and cholesterol.

It is not the fault of the premises for what SOME people -- not all -- do there. Yet you want to close them down?

All the businesses you mentioned above are subject to some form of regulation or another, and for very good reason. Why not Saunas? Food premises are often shut when their lack of safe food hygiene threatens their customer's health. Why shouldn't a sauna be closed if it doesn't make any effort re HIV/AIDS prevention and control?

There's nothing special or sacred about a sauna you know, just becuase you (and others) pull yourselves off in it.

I didn't say they shouldn't be regulated. I said they shouldn't be summarily shuttered and locked because some people have unsafe sex in them.

They should be required to make available safe sex pamphlets, condoms, and lube. Beyond that, it is the responsibility of the adult customers to decide their own behavior.

[Jetsam]

I'm not a sauna guy myself, but the time I visited Sansuk sauna in Pattaya they provided one condom and a sachet of strawberry flavored lube http://i.fok.nl/s/emo.gif

Oh, except a few more raids for the TV cameras where a bunch of sad, fat farang are paraded naked en route to jail (the Thai patrons having vanished into thin air). Political objectives satisfied: the moralistic message that HIV is all the fault of Farang sex tourists. Finacial objective satisfied: said Farangs pay even more to BIB to "resolve" the problem.



An amusing scenario, but a completely fictional one.

Most gay saunas in Thailand are patronized almost exclusively by Thais. There are only a handful that "sad, fat farangs" ever make it to.

When raids occurred during the Purachai era, it was the farangs who were allowed to leave while the Thais were piss-tested and forced to hang around.

In any case, let's hope we do not see a return to that era, thanks to one self-righteous, loud-mouthed, self-appointed "gay advocate".

[Aunty]

Aunty, can't quite follow your logic perhaps you need to expand on that a bit more before getting attacked. Also, if you leave off the little insults, you might be taken seriously otherwise it's it's just asking for a food fight.


Now come on. Why would I care about being taken seriously on a forum, when you consider the company it keeps!?



Odd, how suddenly he is no longer AWOL, as Aunty too just suddenly appears out of thin air. ODD, isn't it?

Well spotted! I was wondering how long it would take before somebody realised that me and Homintern were actually the same person. You see when I was in charge of the mobile laundry in Dorset, I found it a very stressful experience trying to keep the troop's undies clean. So much so that I actually developed a multiple personality disorder, which was why they cashiered me out of the army. They thought I was just trying to wear dresses, but I wasn't, I was Dr Anne Thorpe and her evil twin sister, Aunty.




I didn't say they shouldn't be regulated. I said they shouldn't be summarily shuttered and locked because some people have unsafe sex in them.

They should be required to make available safe sex pamphlets, condoms, and lube. Beyond that, it is the responsibility of the adult customers to decide their own behavior.

Well of course I agree with you. But if this guy's campaign to close the saunas down brings the issue out into the public for discussion and forces the owners to take HIV/AIDS prevention seriously, then that's a good thing. Sometimes you have to play politics to get what you want, and I suspect that is what is going on here.

But it does raise the interesting point. To what extent does a business have a duty of care to its customers, if those customers are using that business to engage in activity's that are harmful to the health of the customer, and to the health of others. No duty of care at all? I don't think so. That's not the approach taken by pubs, and liquor outlets, and it shouldn't be the approach taken by saunas either.

Odd, how suddenly he is no longer AWOL, as Aunty too just suddenly appears out of thin air. ODD, isn't it?

Well spotted! I was wondering how long it would take before somebody realised that me and Homintern were actually the same person.

How bright he is to have worked this fact out, especially as no one else here had a clue. Now why didn't myself or anyone else see it? I mean, it is so obvious how alike you are, isn't it? :8(


George

I cannot see how a person who describes themself as a " gay activist" could possibly advocate for the closure of saunas. this was a battle fought and won,but only just, in the bad years of the early 80's. this guy is 50 something, and, as i did, lived through those really terrible times, when ones friends died like flies.Closing Saunas serves absolutely no purpose, in fact as other posters have noted, it puts people at greater risk of infection, as the avenues for education ,and the provision of condoms are denied . This is a matter of personal responsibility, and the State, and various "advocates" have no role in it. Thailand played a leading role in HIV prevention in Se Asia for some years, its a pity to see this enlightened stance diminished by a gay man.
As far as saunas being a breeding ground for the virus, as was on one of the links provided by an earlier poster, this is complete nonsense. The HIV is a virus,,,not some sort of mould or bacteria. It cannot tolerate conditions outside the human body for very long, so its not growing on the walls of the sauna .The humble condom is the only way of prevention when having anal sex. If Thais have the same attitude to personal safety when having sex as they do when driving its small wonder that they are getting infected.

I cannot see how a person who describes themself as a " gay activist" could possibly advocate for the closure of saunas.Personally I cannot see how a person who describes himself as a "gay activist" can campaign for gay "marriage" but many do. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some loony religious person who claims Jesus has cured him of homosexuality and he can cure you, too, describe himself as a "gay activist". Possibly the term simply has no meaning

Personally I cannot see how a person who describes himself as a "gay activist" can campaign for gay "marriage" but many do.

Homintern doesn't like gay marriage. Therefore, no gays should have the right to marry, and anyone campaigning for them to have the same legal right of choice as heterosexuals should lose their status as "gay activist".

I think we've just stumbled onto the essence of cuntdom.

http://www.utopia-asia.com/pix/awards00/natee.jpg

This is a photo of Natee Teerarojjanapongs taken in the year 2000 when he received the "prestigious" Utopia award at the Bangkok Gay Festival (which later became Bangkok Pride and which last year was euthanized by the stupidity and greed of the pride committee). The citation said:

"The Fraternity for AIDS Cessation in Thailand (FACT) was formed in the late 1980s by an openly gay Thai man, Natee Teerarojjanapongs, who sought to unite Thailand's factionalized gay businesses to fend off a growing epidemic of HIV infection. FACTтАЩs most celebrated successes have been its AIDS education activities. It began by sending its White Line Dance Troup to gay bars and saunas, but soon extended its orbit to wider Thai society, performing in factories, schools and shopping centers. Its current focus is AIDS education among very high-risk groups, particularly MSM at outdoor locations in Bangkok, who are marginalized even by the gay community itself. The founder of FACT effectively used the media and his personal gift for theater to cultivate understanding and save countless thousands of lives. "

Eight years on he's probably less attractive and not getting enough sex, so, like countless others before him he advocates the moralist approach:

"If I'm not getting it then why should others".

[dave_tf-old]

Thailand played a leading role in HIV prevention in Se Asia for some years, its a pity to see this enlightened stance diminished by a gay man.

Oddly, its my understanding that Khun Natee was at the forefront of the battle against the spread of HIV infection in Thailand for those years. Essentially, you are lambasting and praising the same man in this sentence.

Agree or don't, his voice is an important one, and I'd be interested to see why a Thai so long in the fight thinks this is a good idea.

I think we've just stumbled onto the essence of cuntdom.I see The Lad is back and in fine fettle. {Ignore} button again

I mean, it is so obvious how alike you are, isn't it? :8(
George

Negative attract. Both in marriage and at Sawatdee. They are one and the same like HIM who plays both sides of the coin.

And STILL those conclusions! Based on http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/smiles/bootyshake.gif "scanty" http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_puke_l.gif evidence, do you think?

See him on Soi 4, I'll ask him then.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I have heard that the gay activist - Khun Nattee from Chiang Mai, is still pushing to have all gay saunas in Thailand closed, to help stop the spread of HIV.

good God he's a bit behind the times. That was the exuse used in New York when saunas were truly sensational. But it wasn't because of saunas it was simply people having unsafe sex.

It's true..he should step warily..he's dealing in dangerous talk.

Actually Natee was on Thai television this evening, around 5.45pm, talking about the same subject - he had a masked HIV patient with him, who claimed he had caught HIV in a sauna, and a Thai lady from a hospice in Chiang Mai. He said that the police seem not to want to do anything about the problem, because they are getting paybacks from the saunas, and therefore it is up to the health department now to do something about the problem. I am sure it will be mentioned in the Thai newspapers tomorrow!!

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

'- he had a masked HIV patient with him, who claimed he had caught HIV in a sauna, and a Thai lady from a hospice in Chiang Mai. "

Well remind me stay away from that Thai lady in the ChaingMai hospice if she's handing out AIDs as well !

that's all we need-a gay "activist" promoting myths and lies..if people don't know by now how you catch AIDs they should zip their lips. You don't catch it from being in certain premisies.

"Homintern doesn't like gay marriage. Therefore, no gays should have the right to marry, and anyone campaigning for them to have the same legal right of choice as heterosexuals should lose their status as "gay activist". '

that's only because no-one in their right mind would propose to the bald old cunt and he's too mean to pay for the service. :cheers:

[TrongpaiExpat]

I am sure it will be mentioned in the Thai newspapers tomorrow!!

But, so far it appears (for now) the English language press in Thailand have been ignoring this story. Might be Natee Teerarojjanapongs is not taking his campaign to the Post and Nation, I wonder why?

If it has not been for a few farangs apparently fluent in Thai translating this story most of the Farangs living and visiting Thailand would have never heard of this.

I would not think the current Minister of Health has much time for anything other than saving is own ass right now:

Bangkok Post 28/06

""The Central Administrative Court has summoned Public Health Minister Chaiya Sasomsab to testify on Wednesday over alleged contempt of court. The case involves his comments on the court's ruling to grant a temporary injunction against a cabinet resolution to sack six Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO) board members.

The court yesterday issued an order summoning Mr Chaiya to appear in a court hearing on July 2 over his interview remarks that were deemed to be contempt of court.

The minister gave his interview on June 26, one day after the court granted a temporary injunction favouring Vichai Chokewiwat, former chairman of the GPO board and five other former board members who filed a petition with the court against the cabinet's resolution to sack them.

In his interview, Mr Chaiya questioned the justice of the court's ruling and the qualifications of the judges.
Mr Chaiya yesterday denied commenting on the court's ruling. He said he had not yet received a summons. He was willing to testify if summoned by the court, he added."