Closed Circuit TV in Sunee bars

[lonelywombat]

Here in OZ there has been a lot of drama and police have called on CCTV tapes to support incidents of violence.

The statement has been made that nightclubs and bars/discos[ here] have to have video of all patrons entering the venue
and all persons fronting the bar for a drink. Security tapes of those leaving the venue have been widely posted on TV and in the press.

Which bars in Pattaya have CCTV. Is it compulsory for all bars or will it become so.

Where are the cameras inside placed. As it is waiter service is it of the customer and only him being served with a drink.

Is it to cover those who have a boy sit with them and perhaps have no control of their hands

Maybe it is to record who takes a boy off.

Surely there are enough people who are in with the bar owners for us to get a full update.

Certainly it was reported there was an edict from Pattaya City Hall a while ago that no bar licences would be renewed unless there was a cctv camera covering the entrance.

I also heard scurrilous rumours that the firm with the contract to fit and check the cameras was run by a relative of the then mayor.

I also heard an even more scurrilous rumour that following the inspection the same firm was offering a disconnection service (for a fee!)

cctv is everywhere now - wether you can see it or not its there. And its actaully a good thing.

there was an edict from Pattaya City Hall a while ago that no bar licences would be renewed unless there was a cctv camera covering the entrance.

Correct - as well as the inside of the bar.


I also heard scurrilous rumours that the firm with the contract to fit and check the cameras was run by a relative of the then mayor.

I also heard an even more scurrilous rumour that following the inspection the same firm was offering a disconnection service (for a fee!)

Not correct, this is the responsibility of the individual bars - as is the length of time that recordings have to be kept, which appears to be at the owners' discretion.

cctv is everywhere now - wether you can see it or not its there. And its actaully a good thing.

Are you a two year old? Has you mommy also told you never to cross the street by yourself? And of course you no doubt also believe in the Tooth Fairy who is also there whether or not you can see her.

What a Ding Dong!

For those curious to see what the quality is like, here is an example.

(It only operates during opening hours in Pattaya)

http://www.ernestos-ole.com/camera.htm

cctv is everywhere now - wether you can see it or not its there. And its actaully a good thing.

Are you a two year old? Has you mommy also told you never to cross the street by yourself? And of course you no doubt also believe in the Tooth Fairy who is also there whether or not you can see her.

What a Ding Dong!

got something to hide? i work with cctv and know the benefits to all.

Have nothing to hide but I do consider it an invasion of my privacy. I do not want my picture shown worldwide walking thru sunee/boystown or entering a bar. I can see where it might help catch a robber or a mugger if it was pointed in the right direction at the right time but all it does is move the crime area from one place to another.

cctv is everywhere now - wether you can see it or not its there. And its actaully a good thing.

Are you a two year old? Has you mommy also told you never to cross the street by yourself? And of course you no doubt also believe in the Tooth Fairy who is also there whether or not you can see her.

What a Ding Dong!

got something to hide? i work with cctv and know the benefits to all.

Oh this is the old "if you are standing up for your civil liberties you have something to hide" argument. Same argument deployed in Nazi Germany - shit then and shit now

[lonelywombat]

cctv is everywhere now - wether you can see it or not its there. And its actaully a good thing.

Are you a two year old? Has you mommy also told you never to cross the street by yourself? And of course you no doubt also believe in the Tooth Fairy who is also there whether or not you can see her.

What a Ding Dong!

got something to hide? i work with cctv and know the benefits to all.

From time to time in all these forums there are comments about blackmail and threats. Having access to video tapes of some of the goings on inside a number of bars in Sunee, could prove every expensive to the foolish.

And its actaully a good thing.

It could also be very dangerous.

[Bob]

If we're only talking about security cameras in public places, there surely is an argument that this somewhat infringes civil liberties; however, given the advantages (placement of the cameras substantially reduces crime in that area, helps catch offenders, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than more cops), I'm for them.

If we're talking about cameras that routinely publish the photos/video to the world, that's more offensive to me and I'd avoid the place like the plague. I doubt we're talking about that in this case.

I really don't understand all of this silly dribble about CCTV being a good thing, or a violation of civil liberties, or an invasion of privacy, or being needed evidence and proof of guilt or evidence. All of these conversations/comentaries are nothing more than mental masturbation.

The police in Thailand are in a for profit business not the law enforcement business. These BIB are smart, underpaid deliberately, and expected to be creative in how they supplement their income. The smarter one is the quicker promotion comes because you can afford to buy your next promotion and new position. And gay men are an easy target with MONEY.

This is not the Western World's legal systems or law enforcement agencies. This is a country where corruption and buying ones way out of ugly situations that are set up by the police are considered standard operating procedures. Just read the Bangkok Post, Nation, or the Pattaya news papers and use your heads to read between the lines.

Have nothing to hide but I do consider it an invasion of my privacy. I do not want my picture shown worldwide walking thru sunee/boystown or entering a bar.

If you don't like it, wear a bleedin' paper sack over your head. Your precious "privacy" (you're in a public place, asshole -- you have no privacy) will be preserved, and the rest of us won't have to look at your ugly mug.

[Marsilius]

...however, given the advantages (placement of the cameras substantially reduces crime in that area, helps catch offenders, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than more cops), I'm for them.

But it seems that UK police - equipped with the most systematic and sophisticated network of cameras in the world - believe it is pretty useless as it stands and has certainly NOT "substantially" reduced crimne.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1 from which this is an extract...

"Massive investment in CCTV cameras to prevent crime in the UK has failed to have a significant impact, despite billions of pounds spent on the new technology, a senior police officer piloting a new database has warned. Only 3% of street robberies in London were solved using CCTV images, despite the fact that Britain has more security cameras than any other country in Europe. The warning comes from the head of the Visual Images, Identifications and Detections Office (Viido) at New Scotland Yard... Use of CCTV images for court evidence has so far been very poor, according to Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville, the officer in charge of the Metropolitan police unit. "CCTV was originally seen as a preventative measure," Neville told the Security Document World Conference in London. "Billions of pounds has been spent on kit, but no thought has gone into how the police are going to use the images and how they will be used in court. It's been an utter fiasco: only 3% of crimes were solved by CCTV. There's no fear of CCTV. Why don't people fear it? [They think] the cameras are not working." More training was needed for officers, he said. Often they do not want to find CCTV images "because it's hard work". Sometimes the police did not bother inquiring beyond local councils to find out whether CCTV cameras monitored a particular street incident."

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

what the well dressed farang is wearing when bar-hopping in Sunnee Plaza ...

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/lunchtimeobooze/23979.jpg

IMHO, only when up to something no good you should be bothered about cctv systems!!

IMHO, only when up to something no good you should be bothered about cctv systems!!

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, I presume therefore you never take any boys "off" for that purpose and thats why you have nothing to fear?

Have nothing to hide but I do consider it an invasion of my privacy. I do not want my picture shown worldwide walking thru sunee/boystown or entering a bar.

If you don't like it, wear a bleedin' paper sack over your head. Your precious "privacy" (you're in a public place, asshole -- you have no privacy) will be preserved, and the rest of us won't have to look at your ugly mug.

Come on gorgeous, stick your photo in your post so we can see how great-looking YOU are!

[dab69]

anyone bring IN cameras (disguised)?
bought a camera watch but the pics were so TINY it's useless

just bid on camera glasses and anxious for them to arrive
with summer scenery and all, but I know they would be wise to this in bars

[bigben]

FUCK IT ALL..........

If the owners can photograph me in their bars with their cameras, then certainly I can take photos as well. And they will say "Oh but ours are for your safety" and I will reply "but mine are for your safety and my safety as well !!! Haahahahahal

Why didn't we think of this before?

Something about what's good for the goose is good for ............

But seriously, why should bar owners be allowed to photograph us in a bar (without our express consent and we cannot photograph them)?

I can hear another excuse... "But the Police made us put the cameras in".... Oh really?? Well if a few cameras increase safety a little, a lot of cameras will increase safety a lot.

Let's all bring our cameras to the gogo bars.... :cheers:

I can't wait to see the updated photos from the bars.... but photos are to only be used for safety issues, no sexual gratification allowed. :bounce:

Let the games Begin.

[bkkguy]

IMHO, only when up to something no good you should be bothered about cctv systems!!

'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565)

" In this short essay, written for a symposium in the San Diego Law Review, Professor Daniel Solove examines the nothing to hide argument. When asked about government surveillance and data mining, many people respond by declaring: "I've got nothing to hide." According to the nothing to hide argument, there is no threat to privacy unless the government uncovers unlawful activity, in which case a person has no legitimate justification to claim that it remain private. The nothing to hide argument and its variants are quite prevalent, and thus are worth addressing. In this essay, Solove critiques the nothing to hide argument and exposes its faulty underpinnings."

bkkguy

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/Dan%20Solove%20Daniel%20Solove.JPG

Top or Bottom?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

IMHO, only when up to something no good you should be bothered about cctv systems!!

'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565)

" In this short essay, written for a symposium in the San Diego Law Review, Professor Daniel Solove examines the nothing to hide argument. When asked about government surveillance and data mining, many people respond by declaring: "I've got nothing to hide." According to the nothing to hide argument, there is no threat to privacy unless the government uncovers unlawful activity, in which case a person has no legitimate justification to claim that it remain private. The nothing to hide argument and its variants are quite prevalent, and thus are worth addressing. In this essay, Solove critiques the nothing to hide argument and exposes its faulty underpinnings."

bkkguy

very worrying especially in the UK which is not turning into Orwell's 1984 but more like A Clockwork Orange.

Now with the new 42 day detention law I think everyone should worry but you can turn this technology back on itself to protect yourself to some degree.

I have one friend in the UK who has been the past subject of an allegation by one lad of sexual abuse when he stayed overnight . Fortunately the matter fell apart when doctors examined the boy and found no anal abuse had happened ( something he hadn't bargained for) while police then encouraged my pal to have the lad charged with blackmail (he had asked for money). He declined but given the current climate of allegations of abuse and the easy access to government compensation..up to 50, 000 pounds in the UK ( while sadly those returning from Iraq and injured have to battle government depts for anything)

..my pal now has several secreted cameras in his home that film 24 hours a day. Everything is digital and backed up on disc..a complete record of his life so no false allegations can ever be made.

It may come to this one day..there won't be a moment that we are not being filmed !!

I'm waiting for brain probes..where you will be subjected to all your thoughts being probed for "illegal" thoughts..one go at me and the system would go into meltdown !! :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:

Come on, guys, I'm sure we can think up another couple hundred reasons why CCTV cameras are a bad thing.

Here's a good one to add to your list: I am ashamed of who I am, where I am, and what I am doing, and don't anyone to see me.

Come on, guys, I'm sure we can think up another couple hundred reasons why CCTV cameras are a bad thing.

Here's a good one to add to your list: I am ashamed of who I am, where I am, and what I am doing, and don't anyone to see me.

Speak for yourself!

I guess the word "sarcasm" isn't in the Scottish dictionary.

I guess the word "sarcasm" isn't in the Scottish dictionary.


It is! - It's just a few pages before scrotum

[dab69]

since we obviously don't have any say in the matter, we can:

choose to go in

or choose to stay out.

in either case this thread would be totally irrelevant
except to piss and moan.
maybe that is the whole object here

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?

You want to live in the UK, there are cctv cameras everywhere. Even in my local railway station, if you go for a piss your are being filmed as they have 4 or 5 cameras in the shitter also.

[francois]

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?


Yes, but what if you are doing something risqu├й? What may be right for you may seem wrong to another, especially the authorities. No one wants to see themselves on candid camera in a compromising situation. Do they?

[yedo111]

Hi Im in Pattaya now

I dont wanna go to Sunee Plaza if its cameras everywhere!!!!!!!! :angry7: :angry7:

I just stay in my apartment then fine!!!!!

No Baht for the bar owners!!!

Hi Im in Pattaya now

I dont wanna go to Sunee Plaza if its cameras everywhere!!!!!!!! :angry7: :angry7:

I just stay in my apartment then fine!!!!!

No Baht for the bar owners!!!

You are a wise man yedo111.

Hi Im in Pattaya now

I dont wanna go to Sunee Plaza if its cameras everywhere!!!!!!!! :angry7: :angry7:

I just stay in my apartment then fine!!!!!

No Baht for the bar owners!!!

Oh, than you might have a cheap holiday: Pattaya has approx. 30,000 cctv systems installed. Even the lobby of your apartment-complex might have one, so even the excort boys will be noticed.

Yes, but what if you are doing something risqu├й? What may be right for you may seem wrong to another, especially the authorities. No one wants to see themselves on candid camera in a compromising situation. Do they?

Looks like francois is worried about something...hahahaha!

Don't put yourself into a "compromising situation" in a public place -- especially one that has a CCTV camera. Is it that so difficult to understand?

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?

You want to live in the UK, there are cctv cameras everywhere. Even in my local railway station, if you go for a piss your are being filmed as they have 4 or 5 cameras in the shitter also.

You may as well say that we are lucky not to be in the Middle East because we might get stoned to death or have our hands hacked off - what a ridiculous argument that just because the situation is worse somewhere else, the situation in Thailand should be accepted without question.

Yes, but what if you are doing something risqu├й? What may be right for you may seem wrong to another, especially the authorities. No one wants to see themselves on candid camera in a compromising situation. Do they?

Looks like francois is worried about something...hahahaha!

Don't put yourself into a "compromising situation" in a public place -- especially one that has a CCTV camera. Is it that so difficult to understand?

Most people would be worried if they were to find themselves pictured in the newspapers for example, leaving a bar with a young male prostitute pehaps 40 years their junior - just the sort of story the gutter press here in the UK have run in the past with headlines such as "Middle aged pervert secretly filmed in vice den".

Now you may well think (rightly or wrongly) that you are doing nothing wrong Chao Na, but it's all a matter of perspective. Most people have aspects of their lives which they would rather keep quiet if only for the reason that it is nobodys business but theirs.

[quote=francois]
Yes, but what if you are doing something risqu├п┬┐┬╜? What may be right for you may seem wrong to another, especially the authorities. No one wants to see themselves on candid camera in a compromising situation. Do they?

Looks like francois is worried about something...hahahaha!

Don't put yourself into a "compromising situation" in a public place -- especially one that has a CCTV camera. Is it that so difficult to understand?

Most people would be worried if they were to find themselves pictured in the newspapers for example, leaving a bar with a young male prostitute pehaps 40 years their junior - just the sort of story the gutter press here in the UK have run in the past with headlines such as "Middle aged pervert secretly filmed in vice den".

Now you may well think (rightly or wrongly) that you are doing nothing wrong Chao Na, but it's all a matter of perspective. Most people have aspects of their lives which they would rather keep quiet if only for the reason that it is nobodys business but theirs.[/quote:2s079alm]

scottish-guy, you are absolutely correct!

Chao Na posts here under a variety of different names and always tries to stir up trouble. The faster you put him on "Ignore" the better off you will be. I suspect he is a closet pedo himself, and possibly connected in some way with one of the NGOs like World Vision. Gays without mental problems simply are not as obsessed with the things that rivet his attention. He makes a fine little fascist.

Don't know who's the obsessive ones here A few dozen posts from kop sook in the past two weeks of his existence, and nearly all of them have nattered on about NGO's. Obviously has something to hide.

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?

You want to live in the UK, there are cctv cameras everywhere. Even in my local railway station, if you go for a piss your are being filmed as they have 4 or 5 cameras in the shitter also.

You may as well say that we are lucky not to be in the Middle East because we might get stoned to death or have our hands hacked off - what a ridiculous argument that just because the situation is worse somewhere else, the situation in Thailand should be accepted without question.

Ridiculous argument eh? Well, who's with the ridiculous statements now? I am not in the middle east I am in the UK and I holiday in Thailand. You can't compare either locations with the middle east my old Jock.

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?

You want to live in the UK, there are cctv cameras everywhere. Even in my local railway station, if you go for a piss your are being filmed as they have 4 or 5 cameras in the shitter also.

You may as well say that we are lucky not to be in the Middle East because we might get stoned to death or have our hands hacked off - what a ridiculous argument that just because the situation is worse somewhere else, the situation in Thailand should be accepted without question.

Ridiculous argument eh? Well, who's with the ridiculous statements now? I am not in the middle east I am in the UK and I holiday in Thailand. You can't compare either locations with the middle east my old Jock.

Obviously since my comparison was made to illustrate how ridiculous your comparison was it is bound to be equally if not more ridiculous - that's the point!

PS: The days of it being acceptable to refer to the Scots as "jocks" are gone. And this news just in ............ you can't call coloured people "sambo" anymore either"

I agree with the "why worry" team. If you are doing nothing wrong who cares?

You want to live in the UK, there are cctv cameras everywhere. Even in my local railway station, if you go for a piss your are being filmed as they have 4 or 5 cameras in the shitter also.

You may as well say that we are lucky not to be in the Middle East because we might get stoned to death or have our hands hacked off - what a ridiculous argument that just because the situation is worse somewhere else, the situation in Thailand should be accepted without question.

Ridiculous argument eh? Well, who's with the ridiculous statements now? I am not in the middle east I am in the UK and I holiday in Thailand. You can't compare either locations with the middle east my old Jock.

Obviously since my comparison was made to illustrate how ridiculous your comparison was it is bound to be equally if not more ridiculous - that's the point!

PS: The days of it being acceptable to refer to the Scots as "jocks" are gone. And this news just in ............ you can't call coloured people "sambo" anymore either"

The days of it being acceptable to refer to the Scots as "jocks" are gone. And this news just in ............ you can't call coloured people "sambo" anymore either"

"Heather Jock was stark and grim, / Faught wi' a' would fecht wi' him; / Swauk and supple, sharp and thin, / Fine for gaun against the win''.

[lonelywombat]

It appears that the police have arrested a number of underage boys from Villa Rouge overnight. It could be a shock to some patrons if CCTV was seized by BIB at the same time. Friend on way home to Yensabai Condo from Boyztown said a lot of plain clothed police on motorbikes were riding around Sunee and he was glad to be out of it. He has not seen plain clothed police [undercover] on motor bikes before and feels this might be the start of a concerted push by BIB on Sunee.

As his condo is on the opposite side he could not see what was happening.

PS: The days of it being acceptable to refer to the Scots as "jocks" are gone.

Agreed.
The P.C. term these days is MOODтАЩs. (Morbidly Obese Obnoxious Drunks)

Its in the local press too.


http://www.pattayaone.net/news_28_06_51_3.html


George.

It appears that the police have arrested a number of underage boys from Villa Rouge overnight. It could be a shock to some patrons if CCTV was seized by BIB at the same time. Friend on way home to Yensabai Condo from Boyztown said a lot of plain clothed police on motorbikes were riding around Sunee and he was glad to be out of it. He has not seen plain clothed police [undercover] on motor bikes before and feels this might be the start of a concerted push by BIB on Sunee.

As his condo is on the opposite side he could not see what was happening.

the plain clothes boys were doing spot checks on motocys opposite la cage bar at 11pm. My companion spotted them 100 metres away and said - look Police! I didnt see them at all until they jumped out blew whistles and ordered in to a side soi every third motocy or so.

[catawampuscat]

Villa Rouge closed tonite... :cat:

Villa Rouge closed tonite... :cat:

Hi cat, forced or by choice?


Thanks,


George.

[catawampuscat]

Don't know the answer George, but I imagine they wouldn't close unless they had to..

We saw lots of boys carrying cases of beverages over to Minou, just down the soi,
so perhaps they will consolidate there but just an assumption.. :cat:

mamasan in JJJ told me police closed it.

Don't know the answer George, but I imagine they wouldn't close unless they had to..

We saw lots of boys carrying cases of beverages over to Minou, just down the soi,
so perhaps they will consolidate there but just an assumption.. :cat:

A pretty good assumption on your part I think cat. And the beat goes on, la di da di da, la di da di do, I guess. With regard to my question I was wondering if there was a closure notice on the door. I am a little bit too far away at the mo, otherwise I would go and have a look myself. ;)

No worries, Oogs has pretty well answered my question, so if there isn't a notice on the door yet, there probably soon will be.

Thanks guys,


George.