An alternative view to Dodgers report

I could have posted this on his published thread about his latest adventure. It would have got lost amongst the many, and possibly deserves a wider audience. First, it is by no means intended as a criticism of the way he handled or described his relationship. Many farangs come to Bangkok and Pattaya in search of fun and sex amongst the gay areas of town (as do our more numerous heterosexual colleagues elsewhere). Many of this number also seek something more than a short time fling in a room somewhere. There is always the thought in the back of the mind that perhaps a long term relationship may be found amongst all the commercialism and prostitution. Some find this. Far more travel down a road of expense, hope, disappointment and disillusion.
The point I want to make is why is it that the fishing pond for this search automatically includes the most damaged young men it is possible to find. That is a sweeping generalisation, countered by the proportion of excellent people that do live their lives in these places. However, it is obvious that most of the young men here have disastrous backgrounds, bad habits, and all the other disadvantages that prostitutes the world over have. The theory I have is that we go about this the wrong way. First we find a boy that performs in bed so well that we seek him out again and again. As all our buttons have been pressed by this situation we then go on to try and convince ourselves that we really do love this boy and want to take it beyond the physical. Meanwhile, the boy, from his point of view has found a farang who is a regular source of income, tries hard to give him some other fun in terms of trips and dining out, and who he feels comfortable with.
So, the farang is happy, the boy is happy. Experenced readers will at this point know that that is the point to stop. It cant get any better than that.
To try to go further has a low success rate.
In Victorian romances, the process goes the other way round. It would be the personality, character and that magical X-factor that tells a man and a women they are meant for each other. Once all the T's have been crossed and the I's dotted, only them might they venture into the bedroom.
Things have changed from this obviously but the point I have been making here is that if you come to Thailand to find a relationship then why oh why do so like we do. There must be a better way.

[Aunty]

A 'boy' is not an object, nor a commodity, no matter how much you may think he is. He is a human being. And even prostitutes are entitled to love. Many people for all sorts of reasons are not up to a relationship, and it has nothing to do with whether or not they are sex workers. Some know it, most don't, but it is in the nature of being human to form a pair bond so most will try. And what's it to you if they do? What really, at the end of the day, business is it, of any of us as to who enters into a relationship or not?

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst. What about your fucked-up farang, which most undoubtedly are, why else are they dragging themselves halfway round the world to buy sex because they can't get it at home? (And no relationship too presumably) Does that make for happy stable punters? I somehow doubt it. Do you think they (the Johns) re suitable relationship material but the Thai ho's are not, just because the Johns are farangs and the ho's are not? That wouldn't be because your are one of the Farang Johns' now, would it?

[Bob]

While I understand Lester's point, I also don't particularly cotton to his underlying implication that most of the bar boys are somehow the dregs of society and worthless. Some are, some aren't. But it would seem to me that the over-generalization is as much a product of puritanical thoughts about sex as it is about reality. One sees what one has experienced and what one wants to see; others, perhaps even myself, gloss over dark reality and somewhat blindly see more good than bad. If I'm wrong, I don't care - it's a more pleasant way to cope with life.

And, while we're making over-generalizations, Aunty's point about looking at the other side of the equation - the quality of the falangs who seek out these prostitutes probably is just as valid. What should we say about the thousands (or hundreds of thousands or millions) of realtively-wealthy (compared to Thais) falang who spend a lot of money to travel to Thailand to treat a human being as a sperm depositary and nothing more? I give you Badboybilly as a prime example of genetic failures that are living proof that Darwin had it backwards.....

To each his own and, as long as you're not hurting somebody, who the hell's business is it to say it's right or wrong? Dodger's relationship is his and his bf's alone and even those posters who are stating it's "not for me" are adding a value judgment that's a bit intrusive and, well, being judgmental in the first place. On the other hand, I've had a relationship with a Thai boy (well, he's 30 this year) for almost seven years and I am neither foolish or brave enough to splay out that relationship to anybody other than close friends. Posting information like that here is like tossing blood in an ocean full of sharks (at least to a major degree - although clearly there are some intelligent and reasonable posters here).

I took Dodger's post to be what it was - his story - and I presume he posted it for reasons only he knows. Sometimes I even feel like a voyeur reading some of the personal histories (but, admittedly, I usually can't stop myself). I give Dodger an "A" for bravery for posting the information and, beyond that, I only wish him and his bf well.

How many young gay middle class Thai boys do you know who financially support fat old farangs.........and declare their undying love for them :happy3:

I fear that Lester's post is overly influenced by Victorian, western, Christian thinking; which simply doesn't work in Thailand. Buddhism and Thai culture view being a sex worker in a very different way. Most of the money boys that I have met in Thailand are decent guys trying to make a living and, as with everyone in the world, hoping to catch a good man and have a better life.

If one takes the time to get to know a boy over some period of time you will meet some jewels and some lemons, but the overwhelming number of boys that I have met are decent good people. All good things take time, so if one is trying to find true love in a two week vacation..it isn't happening. I personally know a number of guys that are living in Thailand in long term relationships with ex money boys...and are very much in love and happy.

Personally, I think that as a group the boys are far better people than the average Farang. The boys will tell you many horror stories about some of the huge lies and evil games that Farangs have played on them. Many of the Farangs that visit and/or move to Thailand think that all of their problems are external to themselves and the result of the situations or people in their lives in whatever country from which they come. Upon arriving in Thailand they tend to think that everything will be different.....guess what??? They turn out to be as dysfunctional in Thailand as they were back home, and try to blame it on their boyfriend.

I suspect that if Farang were honest with themselves.....any boy problems are at least 50% of their own making.

I know a few myself.

Promise the world, use them, and then forget them and get home. Thats my motto. Sorry it that upsets some of the sensitive souls, but as I have said I am here for the sex only and a prostitute is a prostitute the world over. They are in it for the money only.

[kittyboy]

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst. What about your fucked-up farang, which most undoubtedly are, why else are they dragging themselves halfway round the world to buy sex because they can't get it at home?

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Aunty -

I think you meant aspersions and not dispersions.

A little mental mix up while writing?

Mark

[Aunty]

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst. What about your fucked-up farang, which most undoubtedly are, why else are they dragging themselves halfway round the world to buy sex because they can't get it at home?

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Aunty -

I think you meant aspersions and not dispersions.

A little mental mix up while writing?

Mark

Lol, yes you are absolutely right Kitty. I wrote this this morning as I was dashing out the door and didn't even have time to proof read it. As you can see the whole thing is littered with typos!

[catawampuscat]

It might be helpful to know that Dodger is not old, obese and even has his hair. He is no dummy and knows what he
is getting into but sometimes even world class advice is ignored, when some vision of personal perfection rattles one's
sense and sensibility. One farang friend of mine even commented that he would take Dodger in lieu of his ladyboy Su.
Said friend is now cringing somewhere reading this but it is just meant to show that Dodger is not over the proverbial hill
but just a fool in love.. Su is a doll, if you like fem boys and sure turns heads in Sunee Plaza (straight boys heads mostly).

I don't agree with sharing ones personal and intense feelings and experiences with an Internet forum audinence like this one
as one opens themselves up to know-it-alls, trolls, silly geese and sycophants.. (I am in there somewhere).
At least Dodger doesn't use his real name, which is insane and even JB finally sees that light..

There are lessons to be learnt from his postings but the vast majority need to learn lessons the hard way as their boy is different,
this is real love and the list goes on.. choke dee ! dodger and some world class advice: just ignore your detractors and keep on
keeping on doing your thing... We only live once and as long as one can afford to be a fool in love, that is just the way it is... :cat:

[Smiles]

" ... dodger ... just ignore your detractors and keep on
keeping on doing your thing... We only live once and as long as one can afford to be a fool in love, that is just the way it is ... "
Getting worried. I'm starting to agree with Cat----Cat more often than not.
Being smitten with a Thai guy (that would be me ... Cat is a professional Butterfly) must mellow one and make one more generally agreeable.

Cheers ...

But they are not human beings and have no feelings, of course. How nice. What goes around, comes around.

Heartless, or head screwed on? I believe the later. Yes they are humans, but they are in it only for the money. Wake up and smell the roses fattman.

If you are like your name suggests, some fat bastard, do you think these young lads go with you because the fancy you? Nope, they are in it for the money olny, just like every other prostitute. Get real.

Of course they are in it for the money. But culture here (which you choose to ignore) is very different to the UK, as different as Earth to Mars. Why do you comew here for sex? Can't you get sex in the UK? There plenty around.

And as for smelling roses, whatever that is supposed to mean, I have lived in Thailand for a long time, and understand very well the pros and cons, and have accepted what life is like here. Unlike many others, I didn't come here for sex with the boys, but moved here with my Thai boyfriend (who I met in Europe) more than 20 years ago, and we are still together.

Well congratulations to you on your lt relationship.

I get a lot of sex in the UK, which I don't pay for. I come to Thailand to soak up the warm weather and to get some younger (18-20) men cheaply. Thats the truth.

You talk about the culture? Where's the difference? A prostitute goes into selling their bodies for money end of story. The same the world over. Its got fuck all to do with Thai culture. Get real.

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst.

I am forced to agree completely with Aunty - Now I really am depressed!


Promise the world, use them, and then forget them and get home. Thats my motto.

I am not upset by your "motto" in the slightest, but if you stick to it you will probably live to regret it. Unless you go somewhere different every time you come here (and possibly even if you do) you will meet up with the same boys you previously "promised the world" and will soon gain a reputation - some boys may not want to go with you, while others may decide to teach you a lesson and you could get badly hurt (deservedly, in my opinion). Why not just keep it simple and commercial and leave it at that, which everybody can appreciate with no hurt feelings on either side?

[kittyboy]

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst. What about your fucked-up farang, which most undoubtedly are, why else are they dragging themselves halfway round the world to buy sex because they can't get it at home?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aunty -

I think you meant aspersions and not dispersions.

A little mental mix up while writing?

Mark

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Just another take on aspersions and dispersions


Casting dispersions on Thailand's sex trade workers would ruin Pattaya - they would all disperse and presumably scatter to the far reaches of thailand.... Oh.... No No No... thats no good at all. What would be the point of going to thailand?

[dave_tf-old]

Heartless or head screwed on? I'll believe the former.

If one is wired to fuck and forget, well...that's not an uncommon condition. But if one feels compelled to 'promise anything' with no intention of delivering, then that is being a conman and a thief and no amount of rationalizing that the 'other side' is doing it makes it right.

There is a difference in 'prostitution' in Thailand and elsewhere that goes beyond price and performance. While it's true that most of the guys (and girls) who enter the profession are not from the finest of backgrounds, most seem to enter it with much less drama and much less pre-damage than their alleged counterparts in the west. Indeed, it's been my observation that continued dealings with farang who have no more interest in them than as cum-buckets causes most of the damage they may experience in the trade.

I'm not Mother Theresa or a missionary, but I explained my predicament to my old friend W (a long time bar employee who somehow maintained a deep well of sweetness) that, "I know I am a bad man, but I want to be a GOOD bad man."

There can be a positive exchange between a barboy and a customer that goes beyond (far beyond, in some cases) the exchange of pleasure and money. If one doesn't have it in him to go as far as Dodger (and I am one who currently does not), then one can at least treat this other with respect.

I'm sure I've convinced nobody with this drivel. Do what you want and get what you deserve.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Lester..you are entitled to your point of view but it's basically a load of meaningless rubbish.

You are talking from a Westerner's point of view and ignoring the Thais's way of thinking. Prostitution and sex just don't carry the same amount of silly head space that hung-up farangs had had their stupid heads filled with and it's a part of Asian people's customs to do whatever it takes to make a dollar-just as we in the west do but impose all sorts of ludicrous moral restraints upon ourselves..but do anyway (but just throw in some guilt).

No -there isn't a better way-perhaps a different way. You could put doilies on your dinner table legs if you are so offended but what you are doing is spouting plain old western racism..did it ever occur to you that maybe Thai men and women like a bit of sleaze..just like western people do ?

No-one anywhere in any country has ever yet been forced into prostitution (except by slave traders)-it's a calculated decision just as half of Hollywood chooses the casting couch to get a career boost ,so do Thais choose what they do-there is always an alternative but no-one should be condemned for the choice they make.

It's only sex..get over it. :sunny:

no offence intended of course. :angel7:

[Jetsam]

Farangs have a bad habit of promising things. In Thai culture, a promise is not something to be made lightly, and then casually forgotten about. A promise made should be a promise kept. If you don't mean it, or know you can't carry it out, don't promise it.
wallets...

I hope you don't mind that I will call this BS, because I know many Thai guys who made promises that where all flat out lies, but of course that is all because the bad influence of the farangs , don't make me laugh .

[Wesley]

A 'boy' is not an object, nor a commodity, no matter how much you may think he is. He is a human being. And even prostitutes are entitled to love. Many people for all sorts of reasons are not up to a relationship, and it has nothing to do with whether or not they are sex workers. Some know it, most don't, but it is in the nature of being human to form a pair bond so most will try. And what's it to you if they do? What really, at the end of the day, business is it, of any of us as to who enters into a relationship or not?

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst. What about your fucked-up farang, which most undoubtedly are, why else are they dragging themselves halfway round the world to buy sex because they can't get it at home? (And no relationship too presumably) Does that make for happy stable punters? I somehow doubt it. Do you think they (the Johns) re suitable relationship material but the Thai ho's are not, just because the Johns are farangs and the ho's are not? That wouldn't be because your are one of the Farang Johns' now, would it?

Now Auntie, How many times over the course of the past 7 or 8 years I have been reading your postings have you had to say this, your right they are people, human in fact and actually shed real tears. I have Bf's that still call me from there and write that are now in other trades making a living and still think of the good times we had when we were lovers. I applaud your empathy and humanity and patience considering how many times I have seen you write the same post in so many different forms.

Wesley

[Smiles]

" ... I get a lot of sex in the UK, which I don't pay for ... "
That's what they all say. :cyclopsani:

I'd be willing to bet a half a dozen bottles of fine Isaan hootch that you wear classy shirts like these old decrepits:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Personal/shirts3.jpg


Cheers ...

[Wesley]

" ... I get a lot of sex in the UK, which I don't pay for ... "
That's what they all say. :cyclopsani:

Cheers ...

...and if so why go all the way to LOS and pay a money boy to do it if you can get it for free, If you are young and good looking sure you can get it for free... if not then sure your gonna pay!

I agree a prostitute is nothing more than a purveyor of sex and what goes with it. However, treat others as you would want to be treated, is how I look at things.
I have never promised a boy anything I couldn't or didn't want to do. So, no LTR or promise of bf, but I like to leave a boy feeling he would want to see me again. If I find a boy I like (and they have been a few) I keep him for the duration and give him a decent reward but NO promise of sending money to him. Yes, I am with him for the sex but he is treated as a friend. It does make a difference. I would hate to operate like UKLover.

[Dodger]

I often remind myself to be careful about creating perceptions about other people, especially those I donтАЩt know very well, because those perceptions are almost always wrong.

I think itтАЩs fair to say that most people classify the primary failure modes of farang/Thai relationships as age gaps, cultural gaps, social gaps, language gaps, false expectations, delusional influences, blah, blah, blah., but really, what does any of this have to do with the price of cotton? The vast majority of gay relationships in the West fail miserably within the first two years, which, strange enough, isnтАЩt any different than the failure rate between farangs and Thais in LOS. I personally donтАЩt get too hung up on any of this crap, for the mere fact that IтАЩ donтАЩt believe that any of these things are the real тАЬroot causeтАЭ of failed relationships to begin withтАжnot in ThailandтАжnot in the WestтАжnot anywhere.

I really think itтАЩs a lot more personal than that. I really think it has a lot more to do with the true nature of the person, his true motivations, his ability to comprehend the importance of learning and compromise, and ultimately, his ability to тАЬthink outside the boxтАЭ and not be polarized by preconceived notions which were inherited through genetics or molded in by environmental influences. Yeh, I know that all that sounds like a bunch of shit, but I believe it to be true.

People who constantly view other people as being on some sort of level, meaning, they have already placed themselves on some sort of level, (usually a much higher one), are just simply blind to their own blindness, and rarely, if ever, have I seen a person with this type of personality achieve real happiness, in any relationship. They spend too much time looking down тАУ and not enough time looking inward and I believe the Thai boys can sense this instinctively. The term тАЬ:jai deeтАЭ has a much broader scope than just a farang that tips well, dresses neatly and acts politely in public, it refers to a farang who is truly a good person, and whoтАЩs not looking down тАУ but walking on the same ground.

Mai pen rai

" ... I get a lot of sex in the UK, which I don't pay for ... "
That's what they all say. :cyclopsani:

I'd be willing to bet a half a dozen bottles of fine Isaan hootch that you wear classy shirts like these old decrepits:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Personal/shirts3.jpg


Cheers ...

Smiles is it a quiz .......... if so the answer is The Dolly Sisters Ozzie Ron and The Vernon Sisters

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst.

I am forced to agree completely with Aunty - Now I really am depressed!


Promise the world, use them, and then forget them and get home. Thats my motto.

I am not upset by your "motto" in the slightest, but if you stick to it you will probably live to regret it. Unless you go somewhere different every time you come here (and possibly even if you do) you will meet up with the same boys you previously "promised the world" and will soon gain a reputation - some boys may not want to go with you, while others may decide to teach you a lesson and you could get badly hurt (deservedly, in my opinion). Why not just keep it simple and commercial and leave it at that, which everybody can appreciate with no hurt feelings on either side?

Going to start on me now GF now your arch enemy has disappeared? Got me and George in your sights? You don't scare me, you are nothing but a bully boy who hides under a pseudonym.

Who cares about a reputation with prostitutes in a foreign country? I couldn't give a damn what a male hooker thinks about me. I'm the one with the money and thats all they care about. Its about the money you see. If you can't see that you are a fool.

[cottmann]

Who cares about a reputation with prostitutes in a foreign country? I couldn't give a damn what a male hooker thinks about me. I'm the one with the money and thats all they care about. Its about the money you see. If you can't see that you are a fool.

Of course, looked at from the Thai perspective, prostitution is the practice of exchanging money for sexual favors, with you as the hooker.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"UKlover wrote:
" ... I get a lot of sex in the UK, which I don't pay for ... "

I visited my beloved Soho only last year (after a 10 year's absence) and after the initial shock of seeing it had turned into a hideous gay suburb replete with those awful high tech "bistros" and endless gay coffee shops full of hideous queens . I have no doubt i could have got plenty of sex..but I would have paid for them to stay away from me !!


some of us like to pay for quality ! :cheers:

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst.

I am forced to agree completely with Aunty - Now I really am depressed!


Promise the world, use them, and then forget them and get home. Thats my motto.

I am not upset by your "motto" in the slightest, but if you stick to it you will probably live to regret it. Unless you go somewhere different every time you come here (and possibly even if you do) you will meet up with the same boys you previously "promised the world" and will soon gain a reputation - some boys may not want to go with you, while others may decide to teach you a lesson and you could get badly hurt (deservedly, in my opinion). Why not just keep it simple and commercial and leave it at that, which everybody can appreciate with no hurt feelings on either side?

Going to start on me now GF now your arch enemy has disappeared? Got me and George in your sights? You don't scare me, you are nothing but a bully boy who hides under a pseudonym.

Who cares about a reputation with prostitutes in a foreign country? I couldn't give a damn what a male hooker thinks about me. I'm the one with the money and thats all they care about. Its about the money you see. If you can't see that you are a fool.

So says a guy who has absolutely no understanding of how things work here, and doesn't want to know.

You'd have a much better time buying the boys you can afford (but you won't pay for in the UK) if you relaxed a bit and played nicely. And less likely to encounter problems in the future. You are blinded by your insistence that it's only about money and nothing else.


I'm sorry fattman, its not me who is blinded. I am open eyed and a realist.

[dave_tf-old]

No...you are an idealogue and a missionary intent on converting anybody who disagrees with your assumptions, insisting they wakeup, smell the coffee, don the right colored sunglasses and get real. You have left off repent and be baptized...I'll give you that.

I dont know how long you've been fucking your way through the fleshpots of Thailand, but taking your holiday wisdom and placing it on the scales opposite the opinion of a 20 year resident who reads and speaks the language, there is NO doubt in my mind which tray will hit the table first.

I have to say that to sit there and cast dispersions on Thailand's sex workers as somehow not being good enough to have a relationship with is rude and thoughtless at best and incredibly arrogant at worst.

I am forced to agree completely with Aunty - Now I really am depressed!


Promise the world, use them, and then forget them and get home. Thats my motto.

I am not upset by your "motto" in the slightest, but if you stick to it you will probably live to regret it. Unless you go somewhere different every time you come here (and possibly even if you do) you will meet up with the same boys you previously "promised the world" and will soon gain a reputation - some boys may not want to go with you, while others may decide to teach you a lesson and you could get badly hurt (deservedly, in my opinion). Why not just keep it simple and commercial and leave it at that, which everybody can appreciate with no hurt feelings on either side?

Going to start on me now GF now your arch enemy has disappeared? Got me and George in your sights? You don't scare me, you are nothing but a bully boy who hides under a pseudonym.

Who cares about a reputation with prostitutes in a foreign country? I couldn't give a damn what a male hooker thinks about me. I'm the one with the money and thats all they care about. Its about the money you see. If you can't see that you are a fool.

Whilst I appreciate anyone that goes into bat for me UKL, if GF were to have me in his sights and for the record, I have seen no evidence whatsoever that he has, I believe I would be more than capable of defending myself.

On the subject of GF, I don't believe he deserves in any way whatsoever to be called a bully by anyone and believe your accusation of him, could not be more further from the truth. Had you have seen a certain post of his as I did before it was deleted rather quickly, you would know he gave more than a good enough reasons for all of those "attacks" of his, that were made on his "arch enemy", as you refer to him. As I do not believe GF to be any more of a liar than he is a bully and without yet having heard both sides to the story, something I am still hoping to be able to do, as I believe it to be essential before forming any opinion, I do believe the reason given by him in that deleted post, to have been more than enough justification on his part for taking the action he did.

For the record I do not know GF personally, neither have I ever met him. What I have said here is by no means an attempt on my part to defend him, as I believe he too is someone more than capable of doing that himself. i have done so solely in order to try and set the record straight.

As far as you are concerned UKL, I have so far avoided like the plague, my making any comment as to how I personally feel about some of the things you have posted. I have done so as I could see absolutely no point whatsoever, in entering into the same altercations with you by way of posts, that others have done and are still doing now, being someone that is only a virtual person to me, living in a virtual world.

Now hows to how I feel and what my opinion is, in regard to those in the real world, that act and behave in the exact same way as your virtual character, displaying the exact same values and having the same attitude toward others in the way that they believe they should be treated............................ now that would be an entirely different matter. On that note, I believe I have reached the part where I have said all that is needed for me to say.


George.

[Brad the Impala]

Nicely put, Dave!

Going to start on me now GF now your arch enemy has disappeared? Got me and George in your sights? You don't scare me, you are nothing but a bully boy who hides under a pseudonym.

As I have said, no-one is "in my sights". As for hiding under a pseudonym, if you take the time to check the posting guidelines and member lists you will find that I am doing what 99% of other board members do (including you, which makes your point rather absurd) for reasons I have previously made clear.


Who cares about a reputation with prostitutes in a foreign country? I couldn't give a damn what a male hooker thinks about me. I'm the one with the money and thats all they care about. Its about the money you see. If you can't see that you are a fool.

Obviously you do not care what people think of you; my point, which you seem to have missed in your headlong rush, was simply that "some boys may not want to go with you, while others may decide to teach you a lesson and you could get badly hurt (deservedly, in my opinion). Why not just keep it simple and commercial and leave it at that, which everybody can appreciate with no hurt feelings on either side?".

As El Presidente, with whom you claim to have much in common, said (although I believe it is only true in a few cases, rather than "all" as he put it): "Thai men .... don't loose face by getting their mates to get involved in their fights. They also don't think twice about killing someone and don't ever think about the consequences of their actions". If you enjoy the possibility of getting hurt then simply carry on as you are - "If you can't see that you are a fool."


(And George, the assistance was noted but unnecessary- I was addressing another half-wit in a separate post - don't think it will make me hold any punches if required! Io!)

[Bob]

No...you are an idealogue and a missionary intent on converting anybody who disagrees with your assumptions, insisting they wakeup, smell the coffee, don the right colored sunglasses and get real. You have left off repent and be baptized...I'll give you that.

I dont know how long you've been fucking your way through the fleshpots of Thailand, but taking your holiday wisdom and placing it on the scales opposite the opinion of a 20 year resident who reads and speaks the language, there is NO doubt in my mind which tray will hit the table first.

Not sure who donned you with the moniker "Captain Obvious" but your post is obviously succinct, direct, and accurate. Nice job, Captain.

[Khor tose]

Damn dave_tf I wish I could say that you could make your point in a more subtle way, but if you were more subtle then you would not be making the point you wish to make. The only thing I could add would be that that tray would hit the table awfully hard and awfully quick. You've given me my smile for today, thanks.

... its not me who is blinded. I am open eyed and a realist.

No, you're closed minded and a fool.