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Dodger
June 9th, 2008, 09:08
Hi you maniacs.

As always, I avoid things like computers, television, radio, alarm clocks, news papers, telephones, and for that fact, anything related to communications with the civilized world (a debatable concept) during my holidays, so IтАЩll have to catch up on what the Board has been reporting about the place that I just left.

For those who follow my trip reports (???), you may recall that after a nine year helicopter ride in LOS I finally met a boy who dazzled my senses (real or perceived) and rang my clock loud enough that I decided to land the helicopter and bond (marry) with him. The long (9 days) and somewhat mystical Buddhist ceremony took place last November back in his remote village near the Thai/Cambodian border.

:The boy I bonded with (Su) is an x-working boy, x-yaba addict, a bit of a maniac (like me), and actually kind of an x-boy as well, as he is one of those cute fem guys who transitioned to full ladyboy status during his own series of adventures. By full ladyboy, I donтАЩt mean to imply that he chopped his penis off or anything that dramatic. He just pops hormones so he can enjoy having small pointy breasts, walks camp, has those emotional hissy-fits (like some of you guys have a tendency of showcasing) and prefers to dress like a girl - sometimes. He is ambidextrous enough to also enjoy dressing like a boyтАжgets his hands dirty working on his motorbike and makes love like a boy on the days when all the stars in the universe are all aligned properly. As stated in previous posts, he has a psychological fingerprint as complex as the universe and a personality as bright as the stars. A real gem in my eyes тАУ but a real pain in the ass as well.

During this holiday, which marked our first reunion since the bonding ceremony, we had planned to spend the majority of time living with (or near) his family near the town of Khantaralak (Si Saket Province), although our plans changed dramatically after our initial 8 day stay with the family and we found ourselves back in the Pattaya again which proved to be a mistake which IтАЩll describe in more detail later in this Report.

My last phone call to him prior to my departure from the States was during the evening of the last day of March. He answered his mobile on the third ring as always and in the background I could hear a very familiar and pleasing sound. It was the very distinguishable sound of the roosters crowing who prance around his parents home routinely in the early morning hours as if they own the place.

In most Thai villages the people live collaboratively and share just about everything they have within their family and extended family structures. One family may specialize in growing mangos, and the next focusing on growing herbs for food and/or medicinal purposes. SuтАЩs family is, what I call, the bird family, due to the fact that they have dozens of chickens, roosters, and sometimes ducks, wandering around their property waiting for their turn to be sacrificed. I always loved to hear the roosterтАЩs crow when talking to him as I knew he was in his element. This is the place where he is the happiest. A stark contrast from the sounds of zinging motorbikes, people chattering and the background bubble gum music I was accustomed to hearing prior to our bonding and his moving back to live in his village permanently. After a short and somewhat hyper conversation, we solidified our plans for our meeting in LOS, a few last minute тАЬI love yousтАЭ and I hung up the phone and started grabbing my suitcases.

When I saw him for the first time, he was standing in a large crowd which had gathered in the reception area at the Suvarnabumi Airport appearing as nervous and apprehensive as yours truly. In the past, out first meetings were always on one of the dusty sois back in Pattaya, but this time was different. He wasnтАЩt dressed like a boy or a girl. He was dressed as a sort of fashion hybrid. He was wearing a pair of snug faded blue jeans with strategically placed little tears just above both knees and his left butt cheek (spotted that immediately), a grey long-sleeved sweatshirt with the word тАЬBoyтАЭ imprinted on the front, and the pair of white tennis shoes I purchased for him on the previous visit. His hair was wind-swept from the long journey from his village to Suvarnabumi making him appear like he had just finished doing chores in his backyard. He looked absolutely adorable and left me breathless. Forget all that nonsense about Thais not wanting to show physical affection in public. I reached out with both arms, pulled him towards me, and planted a non-stop kiss on his lips that resulted in applause from a group of Thai onlookers. He responded by returning a kiss that even started to make me a bit embarrassed, but what the hell.

We hopped a VIP bus to Si Saket and were greeted 9 hours later by his entire family. As usual, they piled the entire family, including grandma, two aunts (I think) and a few of the young children into (and on top of) the old pickup truck and drove 75 klms from Khartharalak to Si Saket to meet us. We stayed in his remote village for 8 days which was a very looooong 8 days. If any of you have ever stayed in the remotes of Isaan before you know exactly what IтАЩm talking about. I really enjoy the country atmosphere and really donтАЩt mind the hardships too much, although after a period of time I started craving something other than chao pad kai ghai dau and raw vegetables as a daily diet..

IтАЩve come to love his family dearly, although limited in my communications, had to rely primarily on body language and a few mispronounced Thai phrases. In an effort not to offend them I eat anything they put in front of me. This was especially challenging one night when his mom had mixed a bunch of decayed looking fish heads in with the rice and his father kept pushing the bowl in front of me as an indication that I, as the guest of honor, should take the first serving. Su just sat back and laughed as I kept maneuvering my spoon around the bowl in hesitation hoping that everyone else would start eating and ignore me. No such luck. The entire family just stared at me waiting for me to dig inтАжugh!

Besides spending the evening hours alone with Su, my favorite pastime was visiting the monks at the local wat. The monastery in SuтАЩs village is typical of most Thai monasteries and is staffed by 6 or 8 monks, a few novice monks in training, a few temple boys who get stuck with all the hard chores, the main temple and a dozen kitsuтАЩs, which are small huts on stilts where monks, other than the forest wanderers, typically reside. The abbot (head monk) who performed the bonding ceremony for Su and I back in November, seemed openly pleased to see me again. ItтАЩs possible that I was the first farang who ever participated in this type of ceremony at their temple, and quite possibly the first farang they have ever interacted with as well. They bonded this alien from Neptune to one of their own, and now heтАЩs come back to pay homage to us allтАжwhat an exiting momentтАжLOL

As a practicing Buddhist (go ahead and laugh, weтАЩre trained to ignore it), I also appreciated the opportunity to meditate at the temple, something which I dedicated about two hours each day to. Su laughed himself the first time he witnessed me meditating next to an ancient Buddha statue which was positioned in the center of a garden area just outside the main temple entrance. Later that evening I recited several discourses from the Dhamma and Five Buddhist Precepts to Su, some in the ancient Pali language, which put him into a state of shock. In Thailand, understanding and reciting even small portions of the Dhamma in the Pali language is something that only ordained monks have learned тАУ certainly not a layman farang from Neptune. IтАЩve never discussed the scope of my involvement in Buddhism to Su, or for that fact, anyone else outside of the sangha that I belong to in the States, as it serves no purpose. These things always seem to stir up conflict with people, as IтАЩm sure my remarks here will stir up conflict of some sort. So enough said тАжmai pen rai.

After 8 days I was ready for a change of scenery and discussed visiting Pattaya with Su. I was apprehensive about this from the beginning due to the past problems that Su had with yaba, as well as the obvious fact that neither of us really had anything to benefit from hanging around the gogo sois again. Su seemed eager as well and assured me that he would be just fine. We agreed that we would limit our visit to 4 or 5 days and return to Khantaralak before the Songkran activities kicked into gear in Pattaya.

The first week in Pattaya was fine. We both visited friends, hit a few of the karaokeтАЩs at night, lounged in the afternoons at Pattaya Park, and just had a good time in general. The problems started when we found out that the VIP bus line servicing Isaan was completely booked due to the flood of boys heading home to be with their families for Songkran, and we were stuck in Pattaya during Songkran which was something we both wanted to avoid this year. Up to this point, Su had stuck to my side everywhere we went, although things were about to change.

On the evening of April 18th, which is a night when everyone, including all the working boys, party their asses off and the major water slinging begins, Su asked if he could go walk around town with his small group of friends for a few hours. Never wanting to be in a position like IтАЩm playing the father role, I hesitated in my response to him, although ultimately sat him down and tried to patiently explain why I didnтАЩt think it was a good idea. My comments were focused on the reality of there being a ton of yaba on the sois, regardless if his small group of friends were clean or not, this being on such a large party night would put him in jeopardy. At first he seemed to understand - but reverted back to wanting to debate the issue over-and-over. Without having to repeat the entire conversation, IтАЩll just say that my bottom line was NOT A GOOD IDEAтАжand his bottom line wasтАжIтАЩLL BE FINE AND IтАЩM GOING ANYWAY.

He kept repeating the fact that heтАЩd be OK and promised me heтАЩd be home no later than 1:00 AM. Knowing how late the boys stay out, especially when thereтАЩs and event going on like Songkran, I found this hard to believe, but at least thought heтАЩd be home by 2:00 or 3:00 AM . No such luck. I forced myself to stay awake until almost 6:00 AM тАУ and then found myself trying to force myself to fall asleep to no avail. As the sun was rising the next morning my heart was sinking. It was my mistake in the first place for even suggesting that we visit Pattaya, and the consequences of this decision were falling squarely on my shoulders.

It wasnтАЩt until 4:00 PM the next day that I heard a knock on the door, and it wasnтАЩt Su, instead it was one of his ladyboy friends. He told me that Su had stayed in his room last night with a flock of other friends, and the fact that he was angry at me for locking him out of the hotel. We were staying at Dak Bann Mai at the time and they locked the lower (outside) doors at 1:00 PM which required the guests to have two keysтАжone for the lower door and the other for the room. In all honesty I forgot about this, although informed SuтАЩs friend that all Su had to do was yell up at our window, which he had done on several previous occasions, and I would have let him in. He claimed that Su came to the room but I was asleep, which was not true.

From this incident, the element of mistrust slithered right back into our relationship and seemed to spiral almost out of control after that.

For the next 2 days Su remained lodged at his friendтАЩs place apparently waiting for me to come over and make some sort of apology. Right or wrong, I decided to do nothing and just let him wattle around in his own muck for a while. Those 2 days were so depressing that they started erasing all the good feelings and aspirations I had for the two of us. His friend came to talk to me again тАУ but by this point I wasnтАЩt in the mood to even listen. I had one foot back on the butterfly path and drinking like a fish..

On the third day, Su decided that he would manipulate me into coming to him. The tactic he used was to sit in front of the gogo bar where he was employed prior to our bonding projecting the image that he had returned to work there. In hind sight, I guess I could frame his actions as being a little cute. He positioned his stool in front of the bar just in the perfect location where he knew I could see him from the beer bar he knew I frequented every night. He was wearing the same colored t shirt as the other boys working at that bar, although it was missing the bar logo on the front. Instead, it was one of those 80 baht Soi Boi Chao shirts with a near perfect color match. A moment after the two of us made eye contact I paid for my drink, hopped on the motorbike and left the scene entirely.

He and I have played this game so many times in the past, it was almost impossible to judge the outcome. He was looking for pity, understanding and forgiveness from me, and I was just flat-out pissed. Angry at myself for being foolish enough to bring him back to Pattaya to begin with, and pissed at him for violating the trust that took us so long to cultivate..

Fortunately, and somewhat miraculously, day four of this separation period would be the last. I made the first move and walked up to him while he was perched on the stool outside the gogo bar and made my case clear. I first asked him if he was OK тАУ compassionately. After he responded by saying тАЬI guessтАЭ with a lump in his throat, I continued by telling him that I had no intention of playing this game any longer. I told him that I was fully aware of the fact that he wasnтАЩt employed to work at the bar he was sitting in front of тАУ nor was I fu*king the boy who was sitting next to me at the beer bar next door. I told him that I know he didnтАЩt return to the room that night (morning) as his friend had suggested, nor was I going to accept anything from him but the truth..

He went on to explain that he went with his friends to party and sling water up and down Walking Street and ended up at Jomtien Beach in the midst of the Songkran party and simply let the time get away from him. He went on to say that by the time he and his friends returned it was after 4:00 AM and he knew I would be pissed, so he opted to stay the night at his friends place with plans to come back to our room by 9:00 AM, which is the time I normally crawl out of bed and head to the downstairs restaurant for breakfast. He said he blew that too, because he didnтАЩt wake up until almost 1:00 in the afternoon тАУ and knew at that point taht we were definitely going to have a big problem.

By this point, he had tears streaming down his face, and yours truly was emotionally drained. We continued our conversation back in the room, made love, slept, and woke the next morning motivated to get things back on track.

The next few weeks were a rollercoaster of ups-and-downs between us, partly due to the internal resentment I was harboring which I failed to let go, and partly due to an equal amount of stubbornness on his part. One day was great тАУ the next another verbal conflict. This, being our honeymoon holiday, was turning to shit, and turning to shit fast.

SuтАЩs mom and dad came down to visit us for a few days which seemed to help things along. Su spent a lot of time talking with his mom which I think helped. Su and I, as long as weтАЩve been together, still have a real difficult time understanding each others emotions. Once I think IтАЩve got him figured out, something happens, and IтАЩm right back at the drawing board again тАУ and I think heтАЩs faced with the same challenges when trying to figure me out. I will say however, that even with all the recent conflicts, weтАЩre starting to get there. Little by little itтАЩs starting to seep in.

Su and I planned return to Si Saket and get the hell out of Dodge the day after his parents left, although we were faced with yet another dilemma. Things were going so well the night that his parents left that we became, how do I put thisтАжa little more passionate than normal after the lights went out, and I ended up pulling a hernia. I can hear you guys laughing now. At first I thought I just pulled a muscle in my groin area, but by morning the sore area had swollen to the size of a golf ball. This incident, as ridiculous as this is going to sound, would go on to serve as a blessing in disguise.

The next morning, while Su was still fast asleep, I went to the Bangkok/Pattaya Hospital where the doctor examined me and said I would need surgery to correct the problem, and recommended that I have it sooner rather than later. I received a quote for approximately 79,000 baht which seemed reasonable, although was definitely not planned in my budget for this holiday at all. When I first visited SuтАЩs village I presented SuтАЩs parents which a sum of money which served as the traditional dowry for our marriage. This sum was discussed during my last holiday and acknowledged. I also put an extra 100,000 baht in a savings account I opened at the Kashakorn Bank which served as the beginning of our savings for the house we planned to build within the next year or so. This was also discussed following our bonding and SuтАЩs family were also informed of our future plans.

When I returned to the hotel to tell Su the outcome of the doctors visit, I actually minimized the situation and told him that I could probably wait until I returned home to have the operation, although the doctor said that surgery was required and recommended that I have this done sooner rather than later. I told Su how much the operation would cost and that the only funds available for this in Thailand were the house savings which we just finished putting in the bank. This moment was very important to me, as SuтАЩs response would tell me something I felt I needed to know about him.

To a Thai boy coming from an impoverished home in Isaan, there is nothing more important than putting his parents in a home, and Su is no different. SuтАЩs parents live in a shack thatтАЩs literally falling apart. The savings that we had just started was intended to grow over the next 3 holidays to where a new home could be built for the family, as well as an addition to provide separate living quarters for Su and I. Spending that money now for the operation would be a definite set back, and one in which I didnтАЩt know how Su would react to.

Fortunately, he responded the way I hoped he would. Without a momentтАЩs hesitation, he told me that I was being ting tong if I put the operation off and acting like a baby, understanding that тАЬbabyтАЭ is something he calls me any time I do something crazy. He said that we could take more time to build the house, but if something bad happens to me, there will be no house. I chuckled at this and asked him if his logic was solely based on the risk factor concerning the house тАУ or was he really concerned more about my health. He responded by just telling me I was acting like a baby again.

This incident would create a real first in our relationship. A first, that up until this point, I never really thought about or realized. But for the first time in our 3 years together, he was going to be in a position to do something for ME. Up until this point, I was always the giver and he the receiver (no pun intended). I give him money, food, entertainment and a sense of security, he in turn, has never been in a position to do anything for me other than his return of affections.

From that moment on, what to most people would be the worst thing that could happen during a holiday, turned out to be the glue that helped bond our relationship back together..

He was concerned about the things I packed for my short stay in the hospital, when heтАЩs never been concerned about what I pack when we traveled to places in the past, and did so with the mannerisms of a mother caring for her son. He was waiting for me in the recovery room and never left my side after that. He had a plastic bag filled with little gifts he purchased for me waiting in the room. This, in-and-by-itself, was nothing short of a phenomenon, because heтАЩs never once bought anything for me тАУ not even a candy bar. It just isnтАЩt something that he does тАУ and frankly, it never dawned on me before. In the bag was a book entitled Phra Farang written by a farang who became a Thai Buddhist monk, a thick writing pad and pen, a CD he knew I wanted by the band Blue, and last, but not least, two of my favorite Ritter Bitter Sweet candy bars. At that very moment all of life seemed to be standing still. I forgot about being in the hospital, the operation, the pain in my groin area, what day it was, what country I was inтАжeverything. I just laid there in the bed staring into his eyes until I felt myself losing control of my emotions. I tried to regain a little by saying something stupid, likeтАжтАЭnow you by me music when you know I canтАЩt dance.тАЭ He just gave me a different type of warm and sincere smile that exposed yet another dimension in his personality, and told me I was ting tong.

He adjusted the TV and set the channel on a football game, which was another first. When weтАЩre at home heтАЩs in total control of the tube, and soap operas and cartoons are all that he can handle. Football is definitely not on his hit parade.

Su then invited his two best friends to visit us at the hospital and seemed to take pride in caring for me in front of them. When the nurse came in to check on me he openly wanted to be part of this interaction, and asked her a lot of questions regarding the care I would need during the recovery process, the date when I should return to the hospital for a check-up, were there any concerns about the stairs I would have to climb back at our place, etc., again, leaving me with the sense that he was very proud to be in control and helping me as much as he was, especially in the presence of his friends.. I canтАЩt tell you how wonderful that wasтАжthe pain had all but disappeared at this point, and I actually felt myself getting a hard-on.

I donтАЩt remember falling asleep, but will never forget the vision of him cuddled up sleeping in a small day bed next to me with a half empty bowl of food at the foot of his bed and a soap opera book which had toppled over on the floor.

When I was released from the hospital I wanted to ride the motorbike home and Su just blurted outтАжтАЭyouтАЩre being a baby againтАЭ and ushered over a taxi to cart my ass back home. The joy he was apparently having by taking care of me for a change didnтАЩt stop at the hospital, it extended to the end of the holiday. I spent the next two weeks hobbling around like Walter Brennan and getting mau on two SinghaтАЩs. It must have been those little blue pain killers.

Su and I had a lot of time to reflect and communicate during that period which served us well. We both agreed that coming to Pattaya was a mistake, but forgave each other for everything that happened. We also agreed that we wonтАЩt make the same mistakes again, as thereтАЩs plenty of other unexplored areas where two guys as ting tong as we are are sure to fuck up

The flight home seemed longer than any before, possibly due to the constant gravitational force created by my karma that seemed to be pulling the plane backwards to where it came from. The sun was down and it was time for my phone call to HIM. He answered after 3 rings and joined me in a moment of silence while the roosters crowed in the background. What a beautiful sound.

Mai pen rai

June 9th, 2008, 10:03
Thanks for your report Doger. It was rather long. I have been a lurker here for a while, now posting. I seem to recall you getting hitched before and it notworking out. Am I correct?

Bob
June 9th, 2008, 10:07
Hi you maniacs.
A real gem in my eyes тАУ but a real pain in the ass as well.

Been there, done that, and still doing it! And my guess is that's how he (my bf) describes (accurately) me to his friends!

Great story, Dodger - as usual. Some parts bring back a few similar memories and others make me wonder when I'll experience the same.

And I wouldn't say anything about how you got the hernia. Just be thankful he didn't poke your eye out.....haha.

June 9th, 2008, 15:00
fabulous dodger - im heading up country in a few weeks , cant wait now!

June 9th, 2008, 20:32
Great report as usual Dodger. I was delighted to discover when nervously reading on, that you once again hit calm waters after the extremely stormy ones you had both endured. You had me worried for a bit, I don't mind telling you. However you, more than anyone else, :violent1: should know that storms in the particular area you were in at the time, occur not only with alarming frequency, but also when they are least expected.

With regard to the way Su took care of you during the time you were in hospital, as well as after you came out of it, because of personal experience of my own, didn't surprise me at all. Let's be far here, Su has probably never had the chance to look after you before, well excluding the times that is when you have had hangovers. And during these times Dodger old boy, you have no doubt demonstrated so adequately to Su, that not only are you an expert at nursing these yourself, owing to the vast amount of experience that you have had in this particular field, but also that you neither require or want even less, assistance from anyone. You do this Dodger because you know, as all experts in this field know, they are best nursed
alone. :-)

I know how Thais can excel when they are in a position whereby they are nursing you, that is if they do truly have any feelings for you. Both the care and concern that you have told us was shown to you by Su, leads me to believe that Su has now shown you, even if she hasn't done so before, exactly where she stands and feels about your relationship, as well as proving in my opinion, that her heart is most definitely in the right place.

I hope that if you managed to get to read Phra Peter's Pannapadipo's book, you enjoyed it, which I am sure that you would have done. An excellent choice by Su of reading material for you. I will not go into detail here of how or why, but I had the pleasure of meeting Phra Peter and I can tell you that he is an exceptional man. He displays the same sense of humour in everyday life, that he does in the book you have. He has had me in fits of laughter on many occasions.

Apart from "Phra Farang", which was his second book, Phra Peter has written quite a few others as well, which I assure you are all great reads and ones I recommend to everyone here. I first read the "Phra Farang" book when I was at the beach one day and whilst doing so, must have received several strange looks from the people around me, because I laughed out loudly several times when I was reading it.

My very best wishes to the both of you for the future and while I am certain there will be more stormy seas ahead, how could there not be in a farang Thai relationship, hopefully the calmer seas that you will share together, will be much greater in number. Anyways, as in all things we go through in life, if we don't experience any downs in them, how could and how would; we ever to be able to recognise and appreciate our ups when they arrive? :-)

Cheers Dodger and my respect to you. Choc Dee to you both.


George.

Brad the Impala
June 9th, 2008, 20:42
Posts like these, that sadly come along rarely, are the best reasons for sticking with this forum through thick and thin.

To reitterate parts of George's post, our guys so often feel that we have given them so much, from our privileged position, that it is of great benefit, to both parties, when the balance can be redressed, in a practical and adult way.

The benefits are felt in both our souls.

bao-bao
June 9th, 2008, 21:54
Posts like these, that sadly come along rarely, are the best reasons for sticking with this forum through thick and thin.

I agree. Thank you, Dodger!

zinzone
June 9th, 2008, 22:03
Agree that this is an outstanding post, informative and interesting at the same time.

Hopefully it will encourage more members to give their "reports" too!

bigben
June 9th, 2008, 23:51
Nice story and nicely written

I wish you both happiness

Thank you for sharing

Smiles
June 9th, 2008, 23:57
" ... SuтАЩs family is, what I call, the bird family, due to the fact that they have dozens of chickens, roosters, and sometimes ducks, wandering around their property waiting for their turn to be sacrificed. I always loved to hear the roosterтАЩs crow when talking to him as I knew he was in his element. This is the place where he is the happiest ... "
Sounds like a ripe opportunity for a serious outbreak of Bird Flu.

My dear Dodger, I hope you didn't go to the extreme of getting boinked in the ... er ... 'aviary', (as exotic as that sounds).

Otherwise, thanks for the read!

Cheers ...

dave_tf-old
June 10th, 2008, 02:39
Thanks, Dodger. Glad you are back safe and had overall a positive experience.

Not to say "I told you so" re: Pattaya, BUT...well, YOU finish that sentence.

Impulse
June 10th, 2008, 06:40
Im glad that both of you are getting along so well,and your relationship is strenghthening as time passes. How is the hernia healing?,like you say,it was worth going thru it to see how much Su cares about you. love your trip reports, rocket

Lunchtime O'Booze
June 10th, 2008, 08:37
well it certainly is an entertaining tale Dodger and we can all identify to some degree with many of your adventures.

One thing puzzles me though..did you really take a NINE YEAR HELICOPTER RIDE ??? (you sure you weren't on yaba at the time ?)

June 10th, 2008, 16:10
some of you have got be kidding, looking at dodger's "relationship"--if you remember the last previous posts of how the "marriage" ended because dodger on the night before he and his lass were to be betrothed could not resisit the temptaion to sleep with one of his lass' good friends, etc, etc--and as recounted here, this is the type of relationship that should not be complimented but avoided at all costs--a very young, hormonal semi-ladyboy (former, we think, yaba user) is not relationship for any farang--yes, i know dodger says his partner goes back and forth between boy and girl, but let me tell you that no boy that has a single masculine bone in his body takes hormones so he/she can have pointy titties.

of course, the sunee lovers who still like to delude themselves that it is cafe sunee regardless of how many bars are shut for underage kids and how many pedos are caught there, applaud this kind of bizarre situation--what smiles has in hua hin and how they stayed together even before smiles came to live here, now that is a relationship to be applauded.

as john botting said, some of you have rose colored glasses on when it comes to thailand and accept any and all crap by thais as some wonderous thing--it was just in, i think, the pattaya people magazine about the farang bar owner and the snake--and how even though he was harrassed by the snake charmers as were his thai employees, he had to pay fines for his wrongdoing. a good friend recently had a minor car accident with a thai on beach road--the drama that resulted==crazy--when the police arrived, they demaned he pay the thai driver of the motorbike that ran into my friend's car (he was with his thai girlfriend) 2000 baht--when he refused, they took everyone to the nearby police station on the beach road and he was told by another officer that if he did not pay, that was fine, but that they would keep his passport and his car until such a time the case would go to court--ultimately, he paid.

Dodger
June 10th, 2008, 16:43
yes, i know dodger says his partner goes back and forth between boy and girl, but let me tell you that no boy that has a single masculine bone in his body takes hormones so he/she can have pointy titties.

Yeh, I know...the masculine guys prefer steroids!

June 10th, 2008, 18:20
Sammy Quote:


yes, i know dodger says his partner goes back and forth between boy and girl, but let me tell you that no boy that has a single masculine bone in his body takes hormones so he/she can have pointy titties.

Yeh, I know...the masculine guys prefer steroids!

Dodger, I want to thank you very much for your excellent article. I found it to be highly informative and well written.
It is my feeling that your ardent critic, Sammy J, is going out of his way to be irrationally hostile and demeaning to you and for no good reason. Further he is in violation of at least one of the board rules, article 2, which clearly states "~NO DISCUSSIONS ABOUT UNDERAGE SEX................." which he begs to introduce into this thread and which additionally has no bearing whatsoever on your essay.

One of the things that made me decide to join this board was your delightfully candid story, and I want you to be aware of that fact.

Thanks again, and cheers!

Mi Cow Chai-old
June 10th, 2008, 19:58
Dodger, How I enjoy your trip reports! I am in a 15 yr relationship and can identify with so much of what you write. Keep telling us the story.

Wesley
June 10th, 2008, 20:32
Good old Dodger has been around for some time, now, having read his posts for years now, He is a romantic, good for him. If he get pleasure out of his life who are we to decide its not for him because its not for you. Good Luck dodger. Wish I could write as well as you. Not sure I want to write as long as yo do but the clarity is great. Have a good life. Hope your life with he half lady boy makes your life everything you dreamed it would be.

Wes

June 10th, 2008, 22:54
he was told by another officer that if he did not pay, that was fine, but that they would keep his passport and his car until such a time the case would go to court

That is the system, regardless of whether you are Thai or farang. The only ways round it are either to accept the police verdict or to have more than the minimum "government" insurance.

I have crossed swords with Dodger before, at some length, and his relationship would not be for me, but if he is happy with it then good luck to him - it is more than a lot of people here are!

Lunchtime O'Booze
June 11th, 2008, 00:00
SammyJ wrote:
"he was told by another officer that if he did not pay, that was fine, but that they would keep his passport and his car until such a time the case would go to court"

Well that is why you always have the correct insurance in Thailand and anyone who doesn't and takes a vehicle on the road is completely nuts.

I've had 2 mishaps in the past 2 months ( both my fault) without any problems with police. In fact the way insurance assessors arrive so quickly in Pattaya is something I wished was adopted in the west.

As for so many pedos being arrested in Sunnee..you are mistaken..a few in Pattaya but not actually in Sunnee Plaza.

And pray tell-where is this paradise on earth where relationships go so smoothly and deception is absent ? :dontknow:

Dodger
June 11th, 2008, 05:31
First and foremost, I would like to thank all of you sincerely for your feedback and thoughtful comments.

Su and I talk on the phone every day and he's doing just fine. He's now back in his village playing the role as the family cook again, whilst trying to avoid doing farm chores like the plague. We talk openly about the mistakes we made during the last holiday and are pretty determined to not make them again, thus we're already carving out plans to visit family relatives in both Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai during my next visit as a needed break away from the home village scene.

Oh, Sammy, before I forget, you stated that it's impossible for boys who take hormones to have a masculine bone in their bodies. Well, my BF has one very pronounced masculine bone that I can personally attest to. Maybe you were just generalizing???

Thanks again.

mai pen rai

June 11th, 2008, 09:23
some of you have got be kidding, looking at dodger's "relationship"--if you remember the last previous posts of how the "marriage" ended because dodger on the night before he and his lass were to be betrothed could not resisit the temptaion to sleep with one of his lass' good friends, etc, etc--and as recounted here, this is the type of relationship that should not be complimented but avoided at all costs--a very young, hormonal semi-ladyboy (former, we think, yaba user) is not relationship for any farang--yes, i know dodger says his partner goes back and forth between boy and girl, but let me tell you that no boy that has a single masculine bone in his body takes hormones so he/she can have pointy titties.

of course, the sunee lovers who still like to delude themselves that it is cafe sunee regardless of how many bars are shut for underage kids and how many pedos are caught there, applaud this kind of bizarre situation--what smiles has in hua hin and how they stayed together even before smiles came to live here, now that is a relationship to be applauded.

as john botting said, some of you have rose colored glasses on when it comes to thailand and accept any and all crap by thais as some wonderous thing--it was just in, i think, the pattaya people magazine about the farang bar owner and the snake--and how even though he was harrassed by the snake charmers as were his thai employees, he had to pay fines for his wrongdoing. a good friend recently had a minor car accident with a thai on beach road--the drama that resulted==crazy--when the police arrived, they demaned he pay the thai driver of the motorbike that ran into my friend's car (he was with his thai girlfriend) 2000 baht--when he refused, they took everyone to the nearby police station on the beach road and he was told by another officer that if he did not pay, that was fine, but that they would keep his passport and his car until such a time the case would go to court--ultimately, he paid.


Hello SammyJ and well spotted. I indicated in my initial reply that I seem to remember previously doger having problems when he got "married" (and lets remember it is actually not a marriage as same sex marriage is not legal in Thailand). No one else has picked up on this and blindly listen to dogers new report and new marriage.

I wonder how long this will last?

Smiles
June 11th, 2008, 10:53
Whatever else Sammy is, he's nothing if not a broken record . . . different month (and year), same song. If you would like to read Dodger's post from last December regarding his "marriage" (UKlove being correct, it has no legal status in Thailand) just click here: http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 13437.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/dodger-s-trip-report-t13437.html)

Interesting enough you'll find good old Sammy's contribution(s) to the thread linked above, and they sound exactly the same (tone, point of view, know-it-all blather) as his post in this thread.

I have no idea what wil be the end game of Dodger's love affair (and neither does Sammy or UKlove, or ~ more than likely ~ Dodger), but I wish him well in the effort anyway. As a guy who's also in a pretty successful long-termer with a Thai man, I can relate with his joi de vivre in the adventure itself (outcome be what it may) ... and would much rather hear about his journey than the judgements of the seriously dull-hearted.

Cheers ...

Dodger
June 11th, 2008, 16:27
Thanks Smiles.

Sammy has an obvious dislike (or hatred) of ladyboys, as well as guys like me who do not, which is apparent in all his ramblings. He has also continued to throw out the statement that I, somewhere in one of my postings, mentioned that I had an affair with one of Su's best friends the night before our bonding, which of course I did not, nor was that statement ever made by me. Here is Sammy's response the last time I posted a trip report:

The voice of Sammy:


sorry to rain on the parade as everyone is jumping on the bandwagon tearing up at this looney story--if you recall the last debacle with dodger when he ran off with this lad's best friend on the night before they were to "wed"--that's commitment for you and since then, this lad's involvement with drugs, lying more, etc==and that's just what is known--what secrets/lies might not be known--now that the lad has nothing, he suddenly loves dodger too much--sure sounds like the basis for a stable, successful long term relationship--the "screeches" that his friends all make--that is the bars of Sunee, the ones he describes that have all the underage, fem, nellie, ladyboy types who do the "screeching"--true young men do not cackle or screech like a woman and they love the melodrama--yes, certainly, to each his own, but this is clearly on a path to disaster and to pretend otherwise is to encourage others to go down the same path--now smiles' relationship, as described on the board, sounds like something to be admired.

In this rambling, ironically, Sammy makes the same reference to under aged boys, fem boys, etc., with the statement that..."true men do not cackle or screech like a women." In his most recent ramblings related to this thread, he also, for some reason, refers to under aged boys, and the fact that "fem boys who take homrmoes can't have a masculine bone in their bodies."

Well, I'm not a psychologist or anything, but it sure seems that Sammy has a bit of a hangup that's somehow related to the topic of "masculinity." Gee, I wonder where the roots of that problem are embedded??? Furthermore, his constant reference to under aged boys, even though the topic s he's responding to have nothing whatsoever to do with under aged boys, is equally puzzling. Well, not exactly puzzling, because I've already drawn a circle around Sammy's persona. I'll just leave it at that.

June 13th, 2008, 08:15
...The next few weeks were a rollercoaster of ups-and-downs between us, partly due to the internal resentment I was harboring which I failed to let go, ....

Mai pen rai

Your long, looonng story brought back some memories of problems I had in the past with boyfriend, esp the part where he takes off to be with friends. We reached a similar crisis about 1 1/2 years ago with a lot of resentment and anger on my side and stubborness, confusion and sadness on his. Later I finally realized that I was angry becuase I was jelous and selfish of his time with me. I had an epiphany that you might recognize Dodger, being a good Bhuddist. I realized I couldn't control what he did but I could control how I react to it. I had to stop feeling it was him making me unhappy and realize instead I was choosing to make myself unhappy.
I give him more leeway now and try not to complain. I try to include his friends (which means I often end up with an entourage) or sometimes invite myself to his outings. And when he's not around I find something else to do with myself like talk to other farang freinds or go walking/exploring some side sois.
I think we're both happier.

This last trip when we were in Pattaya he went off with friends one evening and disappeared until 7 am the next day.

"Where were you hon?"
"We all went out bowling and then Karaoke"
"All night?"
"No, then we went to eat and went to a friend's apartment and played cards."
"Oh. What else did you do?"
"Well, went got in a truck and went to Sattaheip."
"Sattaheip?! What on earth did you do in Sattaheip????"
"We went to an abandoned village and.....looked for ghosts!"
"Uh, ok. Did you see any?"
"No, but was very scary! Exciting!"
"Riiight......I'm going to eat breakfast and then go sit on the beach. You going to bed?"
"Yes, I'm very tired"
"Ok, call me when you wake up."
(kiss, kiss, smooch, smooch) :tsr:


Now isn't that a better way to live?

dave_tf-old
June 13th, 2008, 10:29
That's priceless, Kenc. Yes, clearly a better way to live. I haven't had energy to do all that in one night in a long time.

PeterUK
June 13th, 2008, 13:28
Yes, good post, kenc. There has to be give-and-take in any relationship, but especially in ones where there are big differences in age, culture etc. Applies to both partners, of course. No good if one is doing all the giving and the other all the taking - that'll just breed more resentment. Loved the little dialogue.

Dodger
June 13th, 2008, 16:08
Thanks Kenc...several points well taken.

I realize that Thais in general don't have the same concept of TIME...as being hours late seems to be no big deal to them. I give Su a lot of space - but coming home a day (or several days) late is unacceptable.

I've had to learn to compromise a lot during the cultivation of this relationship, but see compromise and change as being a two-way street. I need my space too, but when I tell him that I'm going to run around with farang friends and I'll be back at the room around 1:00 AM, I make a point off being home pretty close to that time. If not, and there's been times when I've blown it by a few hours, he'll let me know it.

mai pen rai

jinks
June 13th, 2008, 16:18
I realize that Thais in general don't have the same concept of TIME...as being hours late seems to be no big deal to them.

I always make sure that when stating a time...

that it is agreed to be Farang Time.. not Thai time :clown:

Bob
June 14th, 2008, 03:41
For the first couple years, I would repeatedly get pissed about his punctuality (okay - total lack thereof). No problem now as I've made two adjustments:
(1) If I want him to go or be there at a particular time, I make it very clear that the time is important. And then I lie about it (tell him 30-45 minutes earlier as then he'll be on time); and
(2) If it's one of those "up to him" deals as to if he'll be going, I make that clear and then I just leave at the time I said. If he really wants to go, he'll be there/ready.

There's no doubt in my mind that thais generally don't care about timeliness like we crazy falang do. I've often wondered how Thai employers and schools deal with it (although, perhaps Thais do show timeliness there).

[Henry, didn't you say you taught at one time? Do they show up on time?]

Beachlover
August 21st, 2008, 19:37
True true.... a night out is a night out... I find it really hard to predict when I'll be back... I have guidelines, if I need to be up the next day, but if the night is going in a great direction, plans can change.

joe552
August 22nd, 2008, 03:50
I've really enjoyed reading this thread, but have a question (from someone who only visits annually for 2-3 weeks). When in a longterm relationship, does there come a point when you feel you're the only one who's giving, understanding, making allowances for cultural differences, etc, and do you at some point say stop? I'd love to think that I will have such a relationship later when I retire there, but wonder if I can be so undemanding?

Smiles
August 22nd, 2008, 05:27
" ... When in a longterm relationship, does there come a point when you feel you're the only one who's giving, understanding, making allowances for cultural differences ... "
No.

Cheers ...

August 22nd, 2008, 08:04
.... When in a longterm relationship, does there come a point when you feel you're the only one who's giving, understanding, making allowances for cultural differences, etc, and do you at some point say stop? ...

Actually, I think that thought comes up fairly quickly in most Thai /Farang relationships and is one of the reason they end so quickly. I've been there myself.
But at one point I had to sit down and ask myself do I really expect a 20-something Thai boy to have the same level of maturity, patience and understanding that I do?
You can't expect the same level of "oldpooperism" out of a young guy as from yourself.
And then I also asked myself if it was really that important to my psyche to have someone fawning over me every moment and cater to my every whim while I'm on holiday?

There are plenty of times when we are alone together and do the things I want to do so it's not always a one way street. But I have learned to give some space, and that its appreciated much more if its given graciously and not grudgingly.

Sometimes you just have to let a 22 year old be a 22 year old.

I guess one could always find a nice mature Thai guy with the same oldpoop level as one's self. Just be careful they're not already married!

joe552
August 23rd, 2008, 02:40
Sorry if I wasn't clear with my question. I was thinking about longterm relationships where the farang is actually living in Thailand with his BF, not just visiting for a short period of time.

I wouldn't expect the same level of maturity from a 22 year old, nor would I expect the same financial input, but I would expect the same level of responsibility for maintaining the relationship. It just struck me that what I was reading was quite paternalistic. Which is fine if you want a son, but can there be a 'relationship of equals'? Not the same, but taking equal responsibility? Maybe not from a 22 year old, but late 20s?

Wesley
August 23rd, 2008, 08:06
Definitly the longest post I have ever read, My emaotions ran up and down like the post emotions did. I wish I had that quality.

All the best for the both of you.

Wes

Beachlover
August 24th, 2008, 21:50
With 22 yr olds... one thing you have to remember is 22 is very young to be locking yourself down with 1 person... at 22, there is still a natural urge in most guys to go out, have fun, explore, experiment, go wild, exprience new things etc.

Having said that, I get the feeling Su, (Dodger's BF) has already experienced more on the wild side than most 22 year olds have!

August 29th, 2008, 11:55
"Sometimes you have to let a 22 year old BE a 22 year old"

I've been out of touch with boyfriend for more than a week now which is not unusual when he's in his homecountry with poor cellphone reception. The other night I finally got a hold of him.

He was very aplogetic for not answering my calls.

It seems he went swimming last week, in a canal, with friends.

And he forgot that his cellphone was in his pocket!

I mean, what the fcuk am I gonna say?
Scream and yell at him and tell him how stupid he is?
Berate him for his carelesness and tell him how irresponsible he is?
Impune upon him how I can't afford to keep buying him cellphones and point out how selfish he is?
Well, those are all good ways to make sure that next time something happens he'll try his hardest to make up some elaborate lie to avoid a confrontation with me.

Actually, I laughed out loud because it was all so fcuking ludicrous. :rolling:

He was using the "spare" phone I had him buy for me when I was in Thailand and he was able to swap sim-cards. I had left this cheap cell phone there with him because I had a feeling something might happen to his.
After the last lost mobile I had to explain to him that I couldn't afford to buy him new mobiles all the time and he would have to get new ones out of his own stipend that I send him every month. I know that I'll end up buying another cheap "spare" phone for my next trip.

I look at it as a small 2000 bhat investment so that he's not afraid or ashamed to be honest with me.

Money well spent????

Well, the one thing I am glad for is that a 22 year old won't always be a 22 year old! :geek: