Zimbabwe: Irrelevant to Thailand??

Have a look at this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_ ... f/zimbabwe (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_re_af/zimbabwe)

Then think about the recent behavior of the Burmese government.

Are we so post-modern that the word "evil" has left our box of words?

Surely, leaving dweebs such as NARUK out of the question, the governments of Burma and Zimbabwe are evil.

And they are BOTH supported by the criminal gang in Beijing.

I apologize for getting political, but right now the silly questions of Obama-Clinton-McCain seem just that: silly. Compared with what the truly Evil governments in the world are doing to their own people.

Burma, Zimbabwe, and China.

[Oops. Perhaps I should have posted on something Really Important, such as the prices of drinks in boy-bars.}

But the relevance of this issue to Thailand seems beyond doubt to me -- recently viewing video of Shan armies preparing to reclaim their country from the entrenched (and Evil) Burmese government. The problem with such efforts is that you will generally need to know what the governments of Thailand, China, and America are up to, listing at least three governments who would be Extremely Interested in a Shan insurgency.

But I won't go further than this.

the governments of Burma and Zimbabwe are evil.

And they are BOTH supported by the criminal gang in Beijing.

[Oops. Perhaps I should have posted on something Really Important, such as the prices of drinks in boy-bars.}

But I won't go further than this.

he-he :cheers: he-he

yes... good you no go futher because experts tell CHINA will rule world by 2020. What you want do to make BURMA safe for NGOs? I take military government before NGO bastards.

you bitch around CHINA maybe you end up like TIBET too! he-he :cheers: he-he

More beer! :cheers: More pretty money boys! :cheers:

he-he :cheers: he-he :cheers: having fun waiting for China total overtake of world maybe even henrys dog for fancy victory dinner in Beijing.

he-he :cheers: he-he More beer! More boys! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[thrillbill]

Too bad this Naruk guy judges a country by the boys it offers.... quite a self-centered outlook...???

Once in awhile this forum needs to look at things intellectually and get some input from its members. After all, MOST of the time we can think through our brains if it deals with world issues.

Once in awhile this forum needs to look at things intellectually and get some input from its members.

I couldn't agree with you more thrillbill, however, I sincerely hope for your sake, that you don't hold your breath whilst waiting for that input.


George.

he-he :cheers: he-he

many times saying i am ANARCHISTA. governments come...... governments go......
pretty money boys always good!
dogs fighting over bones of government. all bad!

pretty boys always good.

poke government up your ass.

he-he he-he :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: he-he he-he

Well, you can add to the list Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
But what can you do about it?
Look what happens when you decide to "take the bad guys out" and "make the World safe for Democracy".

I agree with Henry Cate 100% but I don't know what the answer is yet.

I DO know the answer is NOT Unilateralism, Pre-emptive War and Pax Americana.

Henry is quite right. Evil men desperate to hang onto power no matter what the cost in lives and suffering of the people in those countries. They surely, and their supporters in China, are guilty of crimes against humanity?

And has anyone got an AK47? I'm a peace loving chap but I am seriously considering taking up the art of Troll Hunting - I don't think that's a crime is it? Maybe more like a public service.

he-he :cheers: he-he

George W Bush not guilty crimes against humanity? someplace in AMERIKA already issue arrest warrant for George W Bush and Cheney. Do google search and find story. Amerika is criminal state in eye of world and even in AMERIKA. Tony Blair accomplice and criminal too.

ALWAYS man of peace loving who want to shoot people with AK47. You & George Bush call killing public service. war in iraq also public service.

Economic experts say China rule world by 2020. Then Chinese make big feast in Beijing cooking Henrys dog.

he-he :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: he-he

[Wesley]

the governments of Burma and Zimbabwe are evil.

And they are BOTH supported by the criminal gang in Beijing.

[Oops. Perhaps I should have posted on something Really Important, such as the prices of drinks in boy-bars.}

But I won't go further than this.

he-he :cheers: he-he

yes... good you no go futher because experts tell CHINA will rule world by 2020. What you want do to make BURMA safe for NGOs? I take military government before NGO bastards.

you bitch around CHINA maybe you end up like TIBET too! he-he :cheers: he-he

More beer! :cheers: More pretty money boys! :cheers:

he-he :cheers: he-he :cheers: having fun waiting for China total overtake of world maybe even henrys dog for fancy victory dinner in Beijing.

he-he :cheers: he-he More beer! More boys! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

You lost one of your rockers some where, take a trip back to china and have IT fixed

Wes

You lost one of your rockers some where, take a trip back to china and have IT fixed ...
Wes

While this poster's writing style is a bit unorthodox, even somewhat bizarre, the points he makes are not. It is almost a given among political scientists and economists that China will soon be the dominant influence in the world with a very different approach from anything the West has ever had to contend with.

Actually, I am in part a dissenter from that view, but also know that mine is a voice in the wilderness.
That culinary tastes in much of Asia extend to what those in the West consider to be domestic pets is well known.
That NGOs have caused untold harm on many occasions around the world has been well documented.
Some countries such as India severely limit the work that NGOs are allowed to undertake on their soil and some forbid their entry entirely since their agendas frequently do not coincide with those of a sovereign state.
In some places they have been known to act as subversives as well.
Finally, I don't think many on this board would object to having more boys and beer, but on this last, I am less certain since I am too new here to make a judgment on that count.

Well, you can add to the list Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

What list?

The list of countries where the majority of the population were better off in virtually all quantifiable aspects of life (food, water, electricity, education, health care, etc) under a despotic dictator than they are 5 years after they have been given the benefit of "Western democracy"? Where they would have been even better off had it not been for Western imposed trade embargos?




BTW, I think they hang gays there, not shoot them.

Wrong. As I wrote at length on a previous thread (now deleted), the two who you are probably referring to as being hung for allegedly being gay(Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) were actually tried and convicted of the kidnap, abduction and brutal gang rape of a 13 year old boy. The specifics of the case are unclear, but it really depends if you give more credibility to Human Rights Watch or Peter Tatchell.

BTW, I think they hang gays there, not shoot them.

Wrong. As I wrote at length on a previous thread (now deleted), the two who you are probably referring to as being hung for allegedly being gay(Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) were actually tried and convicted of the kidnap, abduction and brutal gang rape of a 13 year old boy. The specifics of the case are unclear, but it really depends if you give more credibility to Human Rights Watch or Peter Tatchell.

Only wrong if you accept the warped definitions that the NGOs give to the word "rape". They cast their net so wide as to include staring at someone too intensely. Peter Tatchell at least is gay and is not burdened with all of the sexual phobias that the NGOs labour under. In some places 18 year olds have been arrested for so-called "rape" for having consensual sex with a 17 year old. It is the NGOs that forced this new delusional vocabulary on the world.
Or do you dislike Peter Tatchell for his political views? Is that what you are reacting to by siding with a view on this case that almost no one thinks credible? Or maybe you think the Iranians really held a fair trial for the two teenage gay boys?
Or maybe you just like to see teenage boys hanging by their necks and don't really want to admit it? A kind of NGO sponsored communal "snuff" event turned into "reality TV" for the masses.
This latter seems to be the most likely since you have already admitted that "specifics of the case are unclear".
Hanging teenage boys where the "specifics of the case are unclear" is barbaric, inhuman and totally unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever anywhere and at any time. Full stop.

[Wesley]

You lost one of your rockers some where, take a trip back to china and have IT fixed ...
Wes

While this poster's writing style is a bit unorthodox, even somewhat bizarre, the points he makes are not. It is almost a given among political scientists and economists that China will soon be the dominant influence in the world with a very different approach from anything the West has ever had to contend with.

Actually, I am in part a dissenter from that view, but also know that mine is a voice in the wilderness.
That culinary tastes in much of Asia extend to what those in the West consider to be domestic pets is well known.
That NGOs have caused untold harm on many occasions around the world has been well documented.
Some countries such as India severely limit the work that NGOs are allowed to undertake on their soil and some forbid their entry entirely since their agendas frequently do not coincide with those of a sovereign state.
In some places they have been known to act as subversives as well.
Finally, I don't think many on this board would object to having more boys and beer, but on this last, I am less certain since I am too new here to make a judgment on that count.

Its not what he said, it is the way he said it, on the other hand you came across as thoughtful, intelligent and informed, with at least an opinion you believed in. The off the Rocker remark is about his writing style. I have been watching his postings and often he actually makes a point. However, I guess I am getting old but all the Cheers and animations to go with the language makes me wonder about his mental state; especially when you take into account some of his other posts and off the cuff remarks. I guess you could say my remark was in total context of all I have seen.

On the Contrary, NGO's, if they are committed to non-interference with the culture, can be quite good for the poor the forgotten and the hurting and often are the first responders in catastrophes. I assume any organization; if the leadership has their own agenda and not helping those they are there to serve, could be damaging. As with people organizations are not the same and they tend to follow whoever is leading them and not all are bad no more than all people are bad.

I am more certain about your last statement than the rest. Although I don't care much for the beer the Boys are quite nice, as you seem to be.

Of course a dissertation on the upcoming power of China, India and other developing countries is another subject altogether and would take more time than I am ready to put into this one object lesson.

[cottmann]

While this poster's writing style is a bit unorthodox, even somewhat bizarre, the points he makes are not. It is almost a given among political scientists and economists that China will soon be the dominant influence in the world with a very different approach from anything the West has ever had to contend with.

Of course, the fact that much of China's exports come from foreign-owned factories in China needs factoring into account, as does the increasing cost of raw materials China needs, China's reliance on Russia for military hardware, the imbalance of the domestic economy (the growth of which the Chinese Communist Party counts on for legitimacy), the looming problem of the gender imbalance as a consequence of the one-child policy, etc., suggests that political scientists and economists might be seriously overstating the case.


Actually, I am in part a dissenter from that view, but also know that mine is a voice in the wilderness.
That culinary tastes in much of Asia extend to what those in the West consider to be domestic pets is well known.

True, most Westerners don't (or won't) eat dog now, but they have in the past - the French ate dog during the Franco-Prussian War of of the 1870s, and it is rumored to be available even now in northern Paris. In Germany, in former times, it was known as "blockade mutton" (Time, Monday November 25, 1940; http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 81,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,884181,00.html)) and dachshunds were reported to be particularly tender. The Austrians, French and Belgians, etc., are known for eating horse, which the Japanese also do (as basashi). South Americans eat guinea pigs, and the British eat blood sausage. For English-speakers, it is taboo - mostly. Various people also eat such things as snails, frogs' legs, monkeys' brains, prairie oysters, etc., that other cultures find obnoxious. I guess it is just of matter of what you've learned to eat. As the French say, "chacun ├а son go├╗t!"



That NGOs have caused untold harm on many occasions around the world has been well documented.
Some countries such as India severely limit the work that NGOs are allowed to undertake on their soil and some forbid their entry entirely since their agendas frequently do not coincide with those of a sovereign state. In some places they have been known to act as subversives as well.

An East Timorese friend of mine once remarked to me, acidly, about missionaries and do-gooders in general that God (or something) always seemed to call them to pleasant climates. In general, I have little time for NGOs apart, maybe, from Amnesty International and the ICRC. Organizations like Greenpeace irritate me, and I would send workers and officials from NGOs like ECPAT back to tackle their issues in their home countries first before they started preaching to others.


Finally, I don't think many on this board would object to having more boys and beer, but on this last, I am less certain since I am too new here to make a judgment on that count.

I'm not a beer drinker, but I would agree to more boys. Don't let your newbie status prevent you from making a reasoned judgment.


While this poster's [Naruk's] writing style is a bit unorthodox, even somewhat bizarre,....

I too find Naruk's posting style annoying in the extreme.

Only wrong if you accept the warped definitions that the NGOs give to the word "rape".

No NGOs were involved in the trial in question, which concerned the abduction of a 13 year old boy from a shopping mall at knife point and his gang rape by a group of five youths, of whom only the two hanged appear to have been tried and executed.


Or do you dislike Peter Tatchell for his political views?

My views on Peter Tatchell have no bearing on the facts of the case.


Is that what you are reacting to by siding with a view on this case that almost no one thinks credible?

By "no-one" you are presumably referring to, amongst others:

The Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs (as far as I know the only government organisation to have made an official enquiry, who concluded "that there is no question of executions or death sentences based solely on the fact that a defendant is gay"

Human Rights Watch who stated that "It is impossible to reach a final conclusion about the criminal trial in Mashhad, given the opacity of the Iranian justice system and the authoritarian system in general, media censorship included. -The preponderance of evidence suggested that the youth were tried on allegations of raping a 13 year old, with the suggestion that they were tried for consensual homosexual conduct seemingly based almost entirely on mistranslations and on cursory news reporting magnified by the Western press. -There is no basis for imputing a Westernized "gay" identity to these youths. We have no idea what their behavior was or how they would have identified themselves, given the complexities around identity and sexuality in Iran"

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission which stated categorically that тАЬIt was not a gay caseтАЭ

The Nation (US) which investigated the trial and execution and published a full report which concluded that Peter Tatchell and Outrage had not examined the evidence and that " it seems likely that his (Peter Tatchell's) ideological disposition caused him to look past or dismiss information that cast doubt on the 'gay teenagers' story."

Faisal Alam, founder of the lesbian and gay Muslim group Al-Fatiha Foundation, who wrote in the American magazine Queer that "very few people took the time to research the details of the case or even consult with experts who deal with such news on a daily basis. In fact it was almost a week later that we began to read more accurate accounts of why the teens were executed from international human rights groups including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission тАУ all of whom have contacts in Iran and ways to confirm news of such incidents from independent sources. While no one will ever know why these two young men were executed in Iran, what remains clear is that the hysteria surrounding the executions was enormous and only fed to the growing Islamaphobia and hatred towards Muslims and the Islamic world."


Or maybe you think the Iranians really held a fair trial for the two teenage gay boys?

I prefer to keep an open mind (something you and Peter Tatchell apparently do not), and to consider the reports made by those who actually investigated the case for themselves - something Peter Tatchell did not do, instead quoting reports by an Iranian opposition group, the National Council of Resistance, the political wing of the Mojahedin Khalq Organization, and Iran Focus which did not mention any of the charges although these had been given in detail by both the Iranian Students' News Agency and Quds, the daily newspaper in Mashhad where they were executed.


Or maybe you just like to see teenage boys hanging by their necks and don't really want to admit it? A kind of NGO sponsored communal "snuff" event turned into "reality TV" for the masses. This latter seems to be the most likely since you have already admitted that "specifics of the case are unclear".

This sort of comment does not deserve a response, except to point out that the execution was the sole responsibility of the Iranian judicial system and had nothing to do with any NGOs, who openly condemned it. My point that "the specifics of the case are unclear" very obviously referred to their reporting in the West, not to the circumstances of the trial.


Hanging teenage boys where the "specifics of the case are unclear" is barbaric, inhuman and totally unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever anywhere and at any time.

As Hadi Ghaemi, Iran researcher for Human Rights Watch said "Death is an inhumane punishment, particularly for someone under eighteen at the time of his crimes .... all but a handful of countries forbid such executions. Iran should as well."

Kop Sook,

Like many others you appear to have totally ignored the original victim in this case in preference to fabricating a gay issue which all the available evidence indicates does not exist. No wonder that Human Rights Watch was "deeply disturbed by the apparent indifference of many people to the alleged rape of a 13-year old"

If you want to be taken seriously then before posting this sort of unsubstantiated, unresearched rubbish you would do well to heed the advice of Scott Long, Executive Director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights Program at Human Rights Watch:

"If we want to challenge IranтАЩs government, we need facts. There is enough proof of torture and repression that we can do without claims of 'pogroms.'"

Now I fully understand why it says "Gone Mad" under your user name!

Presumably the only thing you do fully understand.

[Khor tose]

GF, I've checked you quotes and your facts and as far as I can determine you are correctly stating the case. I was one who believed that those boys were hung just for being gay, but you have changed my mind. I think the problem is that so many of us have had terrible experiences with prejudice, that we are all to willing to accept stories like this one as truth without doing a "fact check". Thank you for enlightening me.

[dave_tf-old]

GF, I've checked you quotes and your facts and as far as I can determine you are correctly stating the case. I was one who believed that those boys were hung just for being gay, but you have changed my mind. I think the problem is that so many of us have had terrible experiences with prejudice, that we are all to willing to accept stories like this one as truth without doing a "fact check". Thank you for enlightening me.

And me as well.

I don't know who Peter Tatchell is, so far back in the sticks am I, but I've grown (sadly) accustomed to agendized press. This story will never completely go away.

The most potent quote you referenced was "If we want to challenge IranтАЩs government, we need facts. There is enough proof of torture and repression that we can do without claims of 'pogroms.'"

We've had plenty of the latter in that part of the world. Shame on the press.

I have to humbly admit that I too was wrong on this issue. How could I have been so stupid! I now know also that there are no gays in Iran as well. Thank you gentlemen for opening my eyes to the facts!

I don't know who Peter Tatchell is,

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk104/Bwana2008/tat1.jpg http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk104/Bwana2008/tat2.jpg

Did the nice people over at Human Rights Watch miss this one? Or do they believe the honest Iranian judges on this case too? As you search more on Iranian "justice", you can find lots of hot masturbation fantasies for the sadists among us on SGT. Its a veritable "truth commission" here at times. I am sure HRW can find some kind of "brutal rape" anywhere they stick their nose since witch hunting has long been a favourite pastime among social engineers. In fact there is no telling what the revisionists will pull next out of their magic hat. I am sure this 16 year old tart held a knife to some poor innocent boy's neck as she brutally forced him into unspeakably depraved sexual acts.

"A 16 year old girl by the name of Atefe Rajabi, daughter of Ghassem Rajabi, was executed in the town of Neka, located in the province of Mazandaran, for 'engaging in acts incompatible with chastity'. The execution was carried out by the order of Neka├втВмтДвs 'judicial administrator' and was approved by both the Supreme Court of the Islamic Republic and the chief of the nation├втВмтДвs 'judiciary branch.'
Although according to her birth certificate she was only 16 years old, the local court falsely claimed that she was 22."

Khor tose and Dave tf,

thank you for not only taking the time to check the facts but also for acknowledging it. Although it may sometimes not appear so, I never post about anything like this unless I either know about it from personal experience (which I make sure I can verify later) or check my facts first. Captain Obvious, you have put your finger on the key point when you said: "The most potent quote you referenced was "If we want to challenge Iran's government, we need facts. There is enough proof of torture and repression that we can do without claims of 'pogroms.'" Unfortunately some clearly lack your insight and what may be obvious to you is ignored by them.

I am anything but a supporter of Iran's government, but neither am I a supporter of the view that if someone is not guilty of something then you condemn them anyway as they are probably guilty of something else. If anyone thinks that any of the Iranian opposition groups in exile would take a different official line on gays then they are sadly ill-informed.

kop sook,

no, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, amongst many others, did not "miss this one", they condemned it totally - as did the Iranian authorities and many Iranians.

Had you checked the facts you might have found that the execution was ordered by Haji Rezai, a mullah and head of Nekah's clerical Court and approved by the clerical Supreme Court, whose authority is totally separate to the Iranian judicial system. The Supreme Court of Iran actually issued an order to free her, but it was too late as she had already been executed in a trial that caused outrage even in Iran. It was very clear that, although technically guilty, Atefah Rajabi should not have been executed and that Haji Rezai (who was not only the judge but also put the noose around her neck himself) had acted out of anger when, in court, she removed her hajib and hit him with her shoes (one of the worst insults an Arab can make). Two months after the execution the judge, two Captains in the local militia and a number of others involved in the trial were arrested by the Intelligence Ministry for torturing her, falsifying documents showing her age, and not following the correct legal procedure; some, allegedly, were reported to be involved in a local pedophile ring that Atefeh Rajabi knew about / had been involved in, which she may have been going to talk about and which was a reason for the militia to want her silenced.

Had you checked, you would also have known that the "poor innocent boy" you refer to was actually a 51 year old man.

I can only repeat:

If you want to be taken seriously then before posting this sort of unsubstantiated, unresearched rubbish you would do well to heed the advice of Scott Long, Executive Director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights Program at Human Rights Watch:

"If we want to challenge Iran├п┬┐┬╜s government, we need facts. There is enough proof of torture and repression that we can do without claims of 'pogroms.'"


Has this thread wandered far enough off track yet to no longer have any connection with Thailand, Gay or otherwise?

To help you bring this thread closer to the OP, here is a picture of your two heroes Mugabe and Ahmadinejad hugging up a storm. They make a lovely couple. Yes... of course there are no pogroms here. Only a bit of fun and games. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International will get it all sorted out in due course with all their rational assessments of world affairs. Next I fully expect to hear a defense of all the good points of Hitler. He had quite a few that many overlooked, and after all, we must look at all sides of every issue. Nay?

[Wesley]

Hang them surely they are guilty of something. Well said LOL So, where is the joke.

Wes

It just goes to show that there are bigots everywhere - a closed mind is as useless as a closed parachute!

It just goes to show that there are bigots everywhere - a closed mind is as useless as a closed parachute!


I'll gladly take my chances with the "criminals" than with your concept of "justice" and social engineering surrounding the hanging of kids on trumped up charges. This kind of thinking as already made inroads into Thailand.
The media make fortunes pandering this kind of rubbish and people like you gloat over it claiming it to be "scholarly" study.
The reality is that it is a totally sadistic pursuit and your pet NGOs are in the thick of it since it is their biggest money spinner today.

I'll gladly take my chances with the "criminals" than with your concept of "justice" and social engineering surrounding the hanging of kids on trumped up charges.

You have no idea of my "concept of justice", as I have never mentioned it (although I did say that I was "anything but a supporter of Iran's government"); I have simply corrected your mistakes.


people like you gloat over it claiming it to be "scholarly" study.

There has been no gloating, nor have I made any ""scholarly" study" - just an informed one.

I have no idea of your experience in other areas, if any, but as far as this particular one is concerned you are clearly totally uninformed and consider that as long as you throw enough dirt and catch-phrases some of it will stick; some members here deserve and require better than that if you are to have any credibility.

Bye-bye

I have simply corrected your mistakes.

Bye-bye

Your "correcting" of my mistakes consists of retelling the lies of the mad Iranian Mullahs via your pet NGOs who have their own mostly hidden agendas.
Yes, you have "Gone Mad". Full Stop.
Ta-ta!

They might kick you off the board!

If we are all about correcting facts Gone Fishing I would point out that Iranians are not Arabs.

If we are all about correcting facts Gone Fishing I would point out that Iranians are not Arabs.

Indeed not, nevertheless the Islamic / Arab conquest of the Middle East in 637-651 included Persia (now mainly Iran) and ended the Sassanid Empire, although Iran retained much of its own culture and language and has never been a member of the Arab League.

My single reference to Arabs was to point out that hitting someone with your shoes was extremely insulting to Arabs ("...she removed her hajib and hit him with her shoes (one of the worst insults an Arab can make)"), which is 100% factually correct. As this board is concerned with Gay Thailand rather than a history of the Arabian Gulf and cultural and linguistic differences between countries there, and my post was already sufficiently lengthy without writing "... one of the worst insults an Arab, Iranian, Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, Bhutanese, Nepalese, Sikkimese, Shia or Suuni Muslim, member of the Asian sub-continent, etc, etc can make ..." I did not consider this point relevant.

I am flattered that you read my posts so closely.

Bye-bye

[quote="Once In Awhile":21t795wa]If we are all about correcting facts Gone Fishing I would point out that Iranians are not Arabs.

Indeed not, nevertheless the Islamic / Arab conquest of the Middle East in blah... blah... blah... blah... ad nauseam
[/quote:21t795wa]

Like a Dracula of the absurd, "Gone (Mad) Fishing" rises from his bog each night to take his toll on his victims in this group.

You could have just as easily said the worst insult to an Iranian without adding to, as you say, an already lengthy post. And you do tend to go on and on and on and on. A simple mea culpa would have actually been quite refreshing. And while you may not think the distinction relevant I can assure you that Arabs and Iranians do.

Please don't be flattered to much. You caught me on good day.

kop sook,

I was unaware Dracula resided in a bog.

Once in Awhile,

"A simple mea culpa" would have been misplaced, as no culpa had been made in this case; it would also hardly have been refreshing, since unlike most others here I apologise when wrong, as a simple search would show you. Unless you have spent a number of years living in the Middle East I am probably more aware than you of the distinction between Arabs and Iranians (and the distinctions between Arabs themselves), however that was not at whom my post was directed so it was as irrelevant as you are.

My patience, on this particular topic, is exhausted.

My patience, on this particular topic, is exhausted.

├втВм┼УThere is no use trying," said Alice, "one can't believe impossible things."
"I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.├втВм

My apologies Gone Fishing as you are all knowing and all seeing. FYI...20 years in the Middle East I am guessing there is little you can teach me on that subject.

...20 years in the Middle East ...

I expect you could do with a good hot shower and a change of undies.