Tele-Working from Thailand

[colmx]

Hi All
Have been thinking of asking my boss for 3 months leave of absence and moving to LOS for an extended trip

As I work in IT and I'm the senior guy there... i think he'll be reluctant to let me leave (its hard enough to get 2.5 weeks!)... so as a sweetener i was going to offer to workfor him from "home" 2 days a week and answer e-mails for an hour a day - in return for a 60% pay cut
(reckon i can get by on the 40% and its probably 3 times what i'd make as a teacher or trying to run a business)

Just wondering if anyone else out there has expericence of doing this kind of thing?
How did it work out for you?

Is it possible to lock yourself up in an apartment and do 7.5 hours work when there is so much else going on in the outside world?

Are there good Mobile Data/3G data cards available in LOS?
BFs apartment had broadband - but its availability is pretty crappy.

Would need to be able to access our office by VPN and also to be able to do VOIP to cut down the call costs. Also like the idea of teh mobile broadband card/dongle for travelling around LOS during my "holiday"

I know taht i shouldn't work without a visa - but this is my hobby :drunken: :drunken:

Thanks in Advance!

[Diec]

Colmex, I think this is a wonderful offer!! Who wouldn't want to work for a 60% pay cut to be able to live in the land of Smiles! The beautiful brown skinned Thai boys that you would have access to would more than make up the difference you would lose in pay. I wish I could be so luciky as you!! Do it!!

[colmx]

Hi Diec
I didn't get an offer from him!
I was thinking of making this proposal to him...
But need to make sure its feasible to telework from LOS first!

Colmx, on occasion, I have had to keep up with work while on holiday in the LOS.

I found spending 2 hours a day in the early morning very doable. There are so many wireless networks (many unsecured) available that I could almost work from anywhere in Bangkok or Pattaya.

My laptop and VPN let me do emails and access my company servers as if I was in the office. Some hotspots were a little slower than others, but I also found many high speed connections as well.

My only complaint was the time a teleconference/web meeting was scheduled such that I had to sacrifice part of an evening at the bars. Small negative versus the huge positive being in the LOS.

When you're connected to another country via VPN it seems doubtful that you are "working in Thailand." I spent decades trying to work this out and generally failed; it wasn't so much the technology as my bosses wanting me around the office IN PERSON. I also cam across a number of "remote workers" who were simple scammers -- they'd keep the paychecks running for a year, accomplish nothing worthwhile, and then dust off their resumes when caught.

One rule of thumb I learned while working internationally: you are working in the country where you pay taxes. If you're working remotely in Thailand for a US company, you're paying taxes in the US and are not "working in Thailand." You have no Thai manager, and nobody in Thailand has you on the payroll. In fact, one guy from Scotland carried on for ten or more years in Chiang Mai, maintaining some UNIX software for a family business back in the UK.

It SHOULD be a great deal for all involved. You could probably take a 50% salary cut and work five days a week and still be happy. Your managers should be delighted at the money saved, and your quality product. Alas, it seems to be mostly a "vision" thing, and most middle managers are not paid for the "vision" thing -- or for sticking their necks out. They're paid to do as they are told.

For a while there were rumors of a Microsoftie working in the LOS and taking home $150,000+. I haven't heard those rumors recently.

Good luck. Worry about the time difference and how you'll work around it.

Sorry, this escaped my memory. AIS is currently running a pilot project called "3-GSM" in Chiang Mai only. I use a wireless modem which looks like a USB stick and cost 6000 baht. The network is fast, BUT it's only in Chiang Mai for the moment, and evidently everyone is waiting for a new frequency (2100?) to become available. The nice thing is that you can unplug the little modem and take it to another computer. It installs itself, quite surprisingly: the setup program is actually in the device itself.

Could it get you a view of the inside of the local lock-up though?

Even if you are VPN'd and the work all originates in Ireland, you're still working in Thailand. Do you have the appropriate visa if some dizzy bitch snitches.

[netrix]

I know taht i shouldn't work without a visa - but this is my hobby.
First off, you do not need a category "B" (business - paid employment) work visa because, a. you are not "travelling to Thailand for business purposes," b. you're not employed by a Thai company, and c. nor are you "conducting business in Thailand" for a non-Thai company. Conducting business means doing business locally. There is currently no provision requiring a work visa for doing work remotely for your employer outside of Thailand. I'm not a lawyer, but I've researched this myself extensively as I'm in a very similar situation. I own my own business in my country and work for myself on the Internet while abroad. I am moving to Thailand next month on a 12 month non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa. See thaivisa.com for more information for your specific situation.


i think he'll be reluctant to let me leave (its hard enough to get 2.5 weeks!)... so as a sweetener i was going to offer to workfor him from "home" 2 days a week and answer e-mails for an hour a day - in return for a 60% pay cut.
Second...Don't propose a pay cut! Instead, prove your worth while working remotely for a short term and then negotiate the long term agreement. Here's how in ten steps:

1. Use a preplanned project or emergency (family issue, personal issue, relocation, home repairs, whatever) that requires you to take one or two weeks out of the office.
2. Say that you recognize you can't just stop working and that you would prefer to work instead of taking vacation days.
3. Propose how you can work remotely and offer, only if necessary, to take a pay cut only for that period (and that period only) IF performance isn't up to par upon returning.
4. Allow the boss to collaborate on how to do it so that he or she is invested in the process.
5. Make the two weeks "off" the most productive period you've ever had at work.
6. Show your boss the quantifiable results upon returning, and tell him or her that -- without all the distractions, commute, etc. -- you can get twice as much done. Suggest two or three days at home per week as a trial for two weeks.
7. Make those remote days ultraproductive.
8. Suggest only one or two days in the office per week.
9. Make those days the least productive of the week.
10. Suggest complete mobility -- the boss will go for it.
(taken from The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss. HIGHLY recommended!)


Just wondering if anyone else out there has expericence of doing this kind of thing?
How did it work out for you? Is it possible to lock yourself up in an apartment and do 7.5 hours work when there is so much else going on in the outside world?
I work about 2 or 3 hours a day and plan to do so while in Thailand for the next 12 months. My income is higher than it's ever been even when working 12 hour days. Plenty of time for scuba diving, travelling, and having fun in LOS. Follow the author's recommendations in The 4-Hour Workweek and you will learn that you will not need 7.5 hours a day ever again. You may even get a pay raise for better productivity!


Would need to be able to access our office by VPN and also to be able to do VOIP to cut down the call costs. Also like the idea of teh mobile broadband card/dongle for travelling around LOS during my "holiday" -- Are there good Mobile Data/3G data cards available in LOS?
When travelling all over southeast Asia, I've often had to access my home pc for files I'd forgotten or access to software not installed on my notebook. Easy to do even from Thailand with a service like www.gotomypc.com (http://www.gotomypc.com) or similar remote access program. I've never had a problem accessing high speed Internet anywhere in Pattaya or Bangkok. I'm not familiar with any mobile data cards there, but I don't think you'll need it.

Good luck!

Consider the case of the novelist (or other writer) who comes to write his bloodcurdling book in Thailand. He is sitting in Thailand and working, no doubt about it -- but, again, no Thai is paying him, he is taking no local jobs, he doesn't need a work permit, and as far as I can tell he's completely safe and in the right. Remember that Scot in Chiang Mai -- he had no trouble for a decade --- nor should he have had any trouble.

I don't know if you can actually cut down to two hours a day....but then memories come back of times when I went to "work" as a software developer and spent the morning in useless meetings, had lunch, was called in to a departmental meeting, went and checked e-mail, spent 30 minutes working, and then had to go to an "all hands" meeting. Everyone sat around eating pizza and happily wasting time. And this was in the Silicon Valley, that fabled land of high pressure.

The plan outlined by Netrix looks reasonable and is probably worth a go. I never thought of coercing my manager into trying remote work through a tall tale -- it just might work! :-)

Many thanks Netrix. I asked because I might net commute myself a bit after retirement.

[bkkguy]

There is currently no provision requiring a work visa for doing work remotely for your employer outside of Thailand.


there is no such thing as a "work visa" and while you may be able to obtain a non-imm B visa there is currently no procedure for obtaining a work permit for doing work remotely for an employer outside of Thailand - but that does not make it legal to do such work!



I am moving to Thailand next month on a 12 month non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa.


There is no such thing as a "12 month non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa" - there are 3 month or 6 month single, double or tripple entry tourist visas or 3 or 12 month single or multiple entry non-imm visas

obviously your "extensive research" has not been all that thorough and calls into question the other statements you make



See thaivisa.com for more information for your specific situation.


probably the best advise in your post!

bkkguy

[Smiles]

" ... I am moving to Thailand next month on a 12 month non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa ... "
As far as I am aware there are only 2 types of visas available to foreigners wishing to enter Thailand:

(1) a Tourist visa

(2) a Non Immigrant Visa

There are varieties of Non Immigrant visas (designated by 'A' or 'B' or 'O' etc etc with each letter designating a different purpose for entering the country). And there are few different varieties of Tourist visas (usually regarding the length of stay desired).

But I've never heard of a 'non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa' before.
Just a typing mistake, or are we looking at a brand new kind of visa? I suspect the former, but would be interested if not.

Cheers ...

Oops ... I just got trumped by BKKGUY with much the same observation while I was typing.

[Hmmm]

This is one of the better sites I've found recently on connection options in LOS:
http://internet-thailand.com/content/

Thaivisa's comms forum can also be useful:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=17

I travel with a number of tools to sniff out wireless connections, eg
http://www.netstumbler.com/
as well as a small extended range antenna / usb wifi adaptor, plus a portable Linksys WUSBF54G 'wi-fi' finder:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellit ... 0539789B50 (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1129067566905&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=6690539789B50)

All wifi hardware available at Pantip.

If your bandwidth requirements are modest it might just work. If you can find reliable higher speed access, all the better.

My experience with VPN over average Thai hotel / condo "broadband" (sic) has been that it's JUST useable for irregular document exchange. I have to copy everything to my local machine in order to make it workable, and then upload when I'm finished.

As long as you can handle the daily slowing to 5 kbps (yes that's 'k') when the kids get home from school, you'll be fine. Just kidding - it's not always that bad ... but it is sometimes.

The 7 hour time difference to the UK will mean that there's almost no chance they'll get a timely response from you on the same day .... you'll be out on the town by the time they're in the office.

Oops! Go SuanPhlu IDC, do not pass Go! do not collect 200 baht.

These modems are all the range now in Britain, meaning access to the internet is endless. Plug and go, brilliant, they have them in Kuala Lumpur where I am at the moment and seem to be working ok.

But I've never heard of a 'non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa' before.
Just a typing mistake, or are we looking at a brand new kind of visa? I suspect the former, but would be interested if not.


I have the above which is given to pensioners over 60, lasts a year and is multiple entry. So I have left LOS 5 times and entered again with this visa. It allows me 90 days each time. The cost in UK is ┬г100

[Smiles]

But I've never heard of a 'non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa' before.
Just a typing mistake, or are we looking at a brand new kind of visa? I suspect the former, but would be interested if not.
I have the above which is given to pensioners over 60, lasts a year and is multiple entry. So I have left LOS 5 times and entered again with this visa. It allows me 90 days each time. The cost in UK is ┬г100
Right ... you have a 12 month (multiple entry) Non Immigrant 'O' Visa (sometimes referred to as a Retirement Visa). I get it.

But you completely missed the point of my post (and bkkguy's): which was that in his post above Nextris was referring to a Non Imm O multi-entry Tourist Visa.
One either has a Non Immigrant Visa, or a Tourist Visa ... there is no combination of both.

Cheers ...

[TrongpaiExpat]

there is no such thing as a "work visa"

There is no such thing as a "12 month non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa" -

Might also be no such thing as a bkkguy!

"If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody's there to hear it, I hope it lands on a philosophy professor." -Stephen Colbert

But I've never heard of a 'non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa' before.
Just a typing mistake, or are we looking at a brand new kind of visa? I suspect the former, but would be interested if not.
I have the above which is given to pensioners over 60, lasts a year and is multiple entry. So I have left LOS 5 times and entered again with this visa. It allows me 90 days each time. The cost in UK is ┬г100
Right ... you have a 12 month (multiple entry) Non Immigrant 'O' Visa (sometimes referred to as a Retirement Visa). I get it.

But you completely missed the point of my post (and bkkguy's): which was that in his post above Nextris was referring to a Non Imm O multi-entry Tourist Visa.
One either has a Non Immigrant Visa, or a Tourist Visa ... there is no combination of both.

Cheers ...


Touche!

....reckon i can get by on the 40% and its probably 3 times what i'd make as a teacher or trying to run a business...


So..you are currently making about USD 35 per hour now before your proposed paycut? and you will be making about USD 15 per hour while in LOS.

It's great if you can work part time remote from LOS for 3 months. But what if you want to stay in LOS longer or even move here, what can you do?

[netrix]

But I've never heard of a 'non-imm O multi-entry tourist visa' before.
Just a typing mistake, or are we looking at a brand new kind of visa? I suspect the former, but would be interested if not.
I have the above which is given to pensioners over 60, lasts a year and is multiple entry. So I have left LOS 5 times and entered again with this visa. It allows me 90 days each time. The cost in UK is ┬г100
Right ... you have a 12 month (multiple entry) Non Immigrant 'O' Visa (sometimes referred to as a Retirement Visa). I get it.

But you completely missed the point of my post (and bkkguy's): which was that in his post above Nextris was referring to a Non Imm O multi-entry Tourist Visa.
One either has a Non Immigrant Visa, or a Tourist Visa ... there is no combination of both.


Actually you're technically correct. I have a Non Immigrant Visa, Category O, multiple entry, valid for 12 months.
On the application, the listed pupose for the visa as noted by the consulate clerk's own hand is "tourism." I am
much too young to retire. Regardless, I misspoke. Apologies. In my situation a work permit (which I mistakenly called a "work visa") is not required...and that was the point I was making in response to the OP.

DELETED

[Smiles]

" ... Actually you're technically correct. I have a Non Immigrant Visa, Category O, multiple entry, valid for 12 months.
On the application, the listed pupose for the visa as noted by the consulate clerk's own hand is "tourism" ... "
Yes ... that could easily happen. The Non Imm Visa has quite a few lettered 'Types', all of which are quite specific. But the 'O' means "Other" . . . it essentially covers 'every other reason to be in Thailand not covered by other letters': i.e. non specific.
She was probably trying to hurry you along and as you were not being specific enough, wrote down the first non-specific thing she could think of. (TiT).

Here is a list of the 'Types' of Non Immigrant Visas:


Non-Immigrant Visas

This type of visa is designed for applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for the following purposes:


to perform official duties (Category "F") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to conduct business / to work (Category "B") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to invest with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries and Government Departments concerned (Category "IM") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to invest or perform other activities relating to investment, subject to the provision of the established laws on investment promotion (Category "IB") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to study, to come on a work study tour or observation tour , to participate in projects or seminars , to attend a conference or training course , to study as [/*:m:3ohewu3r] a foreign Buddhist monk (Category "ED") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to work as a film-producer, journalist or reporter (Category "M") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to perform missionary work or other religious activities with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries or Government Departments concerned (Category "R") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to conduct scientific research or training or teaching in a research institute (Category "RS") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
to undertake skilled work or to work as an expert or specialist (Category "EX") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
other activities (Category "O") [/*:m:3ohewu3r]
http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/ ... nImmigrant (http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=121#NonImmigrant)



"Never heard of a non O being issued for tourism. As for retirement, I believe to rule applies to anyone aged 55 or over"
The minimum age for the 12-month Non imm (retirement or long stay) visa is 50, not 55. ( http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493 )


Cheers ...