Learning Thai

An excellent piece on learning Thai at this week's Stickman. Personally I wouldn't bother, but each to his own - http://www.stickmanbangkok.ofingo.com/S ... edThai.htm (http://www.stickmanbangkok.ofingo.com/StickMarkII/HowILearnedThai.htm)

[Smiles]

I recall the ghastly Hedda once mentioned (a few years ago now, in a similar topic) that he also saw no good reason for him to bother to learn Thai. He took it a step further though, adding that he also thought that the Thais themselves should abandon their obviously 'archaic' language and adopt a more universal and globally useful one ... I'm assuming he meant English (or perhaps Chinese).

M. Homintern will be pleased to know he's in bed with his alter ego on this one.

Cheers ...

He took it a step further though, adding that he also thought that the Thais themselves should abandon their obviously 'archaic' language and adopt a more universal and globally useful one ... I'm assuming he meant English ...

If Thais really are the caring, helpful, considerate people that many think they are then universal English usage would make things a lot easier for tourists and expats alike. :blackeye:

I don't want to chat with Thias. I only have sex with them.

[1PR4BKK]

Before my first trip to Thailand a few years ago I learned some Thai so that I could communicate with the locals. I did not have to do this, as I was on a structured tour with an English speaking tour guide throughout the entire vacation. However, I wanted to maximize my experience. I felt learning at least a small amount of Thai could enhance my adventure as well as show cultural sensitivity and respect.

Once I planned to return for extended stays year after year, I made it a point to become proficient in the Thai Language. This knowledge has helped me in many situations and has enabled me to build some great relationship. Most Thais that I come across are amazed and excited to hear me speak Thai. If I stumble on a word or phrase they are quite willing to correct me and applaud me on my attempt to learn their language. I have seen, on many occasions, foreigners trying to ask for directions or assistance from a Thai local in English or some other language and the Thai gets frustrated.

Furthermore, I think it would be insulting to the locals of any country for a visitor to assume that everyone needs to learn their language. When in Rome speak like the Romans do or face being considered the "Arrogant American, Brit, Aussie, etc."

Homi, I assume that you live in LOS? If so, why would you not want to learn the language? It gives a completely different perspective on life here, and makes living here a lot easier too. Apart from dealing with the bureaucrats, young men open up (sic) much more quickly and readily when they can chat effortlessly in their own language. For an old fart like me (yes, I'm sure that will bring some daft comments), it was not as difficult as I expected.I have enough Thai to "get by" and as I'm tone deaf speaking a tonal language is simply a nightmare for me. As well, every Thai with whom I want to have a serious conversation can speak perfectly adequate English; I don't expect to be able to make jokes about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, chaos theory as it applies to economics, or Schr├╢dinger's Cat with bar boys. Am I missing out on something?

Furthermore, I think it would be insulting to the locals of any country for a visitor to assume that everyone needs to learn their language. When in Rome speak like the Romans do or face being considered the "Arrogant American, Brit, Aussie, etc."I was with a Mem'sahib one day in Siam Square one day when a Japanese (arrogant Japanese?!) who spoke no Thai asked him whether he spoke English (he did) and then asked for directions to the Erawan Shrine. The Mem'Sahib, who didn't understand the question (as he later confessed to me), promptly pointed him in the direction of the Grand Palace

I guess we should tell every non-English speaking country to do the same?

I hardly think that's necessary. The intelligentsia of most countries understand the benefits of using English. It's only the Americans who have yet to grasp the value of learning the language properly.

I do wish the United Nations would do something about Mr. Gates and his abominable spelling and grammar checkers, though.

It also helps you understand the culture a little betterI find that an extremely dubious proposition. Certainly there are concepts in other languages that simply don't translate to an exact equivalence - "hesed" in Hebrew, for example, that may give some insight into the culture. Equally many people will tell you that Thai Rak Thai, the name of Thaksin's former party, is translated as "Thais love Thais". It may - but it also means "Thailand for the Thais", quite a different concept. And while I don't need to know the language to find that out, any which way, I suspect that most of the posters here who pride themselves on knowing some Thai language don't know that subtlety. You have to be very, very, very proficient in a foreign language before you start to pick up those sorts of clues. However I'm perfectly able to divine that Thailand is a feudal*, superstitious, chauvinistic and agrarian-based society while knowing nothing of the language

* feudal in the technical rather than the pejorative use of the word

[1PR4BKK]

I guess we should tell every non-English speaking country to do the same?

...I believe that if you decide to live in (not just visit) a foreign country it is a matter of common courtesy to learn the language and use it when speaking to local people. That would apply in any country, not just Thailand. If someone then decides to reply in English, then at least you have made the effort. It also helps you understand the culture a little better, and know what is going on around you.

Excellent point Fattman

I concur. At least give your host the opportunity to see that you are: (1) making an effort to learn something about them before entering their home country, and (2) allow (not insist) them to converse with you in a language that's mutually amenable for clear communication.

However I'm perfectly able to divine that Thailand is a feudal*, superstitious, chauvinistic and agrarian-based society while knowing nothing of the language

To your own satisfaction, evidently, however you would be wrong in as much as Thailand is formally classified as a Newly Industrialized Country, no longer with an agrarian-based society or economy; the remainder of your classification is subjective.

[Brad the Impala]

However I'm perfectly able to divine that Thailand is a feudal*, superstitious, chauvinistic and agrarian-based society while knowing nothing of the language

To your own satisfaction, evidently, however you would be wrong in as much as Thailand is formally classified as a Newly Industrialized Country, no longer with an agrarian-based society or economy; the remainder of your classification is subjective.

I have also thought that Thailand was a feudal society, but I also count as one of the best decisions of my life, the decision to learn to speak Thai when I first visited. A process that has continued over many years.

Im gradually learning more and more oral Thai and surprise myself sometimes with how much i can understand from TV/ other peoples converstations etc but reading/writing it - forget it!

In 14 years i learnt one word - Baht!

Some people have a natural talent with languages - guess im not one of the lucky ones lol

Im gradually learning more and more oral Thai and surprise myself sometimes with how much i can understand from TV/ other peoples conerverstations etc but reading/writing it - forget it!

In 14 years i learnt one word - Baht!

Some people have a natural talent with languages - guess im not one of the lucky ones lol

Oral? Perhaps you mean verbal or aural? Then again, maybe not...hehehe.

[francois]

I do agree with Homi about not wanting to learn Thai. I think everyone should know some English as it is the "lingua franca" of the world. It took me forever to learn English and I don't have another forever to learn Thai. Besides my Thai bf taught me all the important Thai words: fuck, smoke, cock, chuck wow, cum, kiss, motorbike, cell phone and gold chain.

Fran├зois

It took me forever to learn English and I don't have another forever to learn Thai.Many posters here are Anglo-centric and think of Thai as the only foreign language everyone should learn. Posters who are Chinese or French or German or Japanese have already had to learn English for the most part and I can understand their reluctance to take up yet another language. Doubtless they will be subject to unthinking abuse from some for not making the effort - ugly Chinese, ugly French, ugly Germans, ugly Japanese and so on

[Bob]

Many posters here are Anglo-centric and think of Thai as the only foreign language everyone should learn.

That's a brilliant comment, Homi. You stay up all night thinking of that one?
Given this is a board which consists of people who travel to and are mainly interested in Thailand (traveling to it and/or living there), of course it would somehow wrong-headed to want to learn to speak Thai (NOT!). Now, for people mainly interested in China and who desire to travel often to China and/or live there, I suppose we could say that those people are "Anglo-centric and think of Chinese as the only foreign language everyone should learn."

Given this is a board which consists of people who travel to and are mainly interested in Thailand (traveling to it and/or living there), of course it would somehow wrong-headed to want to learn to speak Thai (NOT!). I'm sorry you seem incapable of comprehending English, Bob - but then I've always thought that for Americans English is their second language. I am writing about posters here who are not Anglophones but (as in francois' case), Francophone. Whether those Forum members wanted to (or in the view of people such as you) should learn Thai in addition to their own language and English is their own business and it's not for us to say whether they are wrong-headed

[francois]

In realite I am best described as a "Homophone"!

Fran├зois

[allieb]

Im gradually learning more and more oral Thai

Oogleman I also love a bit of oral Thai lol.

God, only the monoglottal Brits and Americans could have an inane conversation such as this, expecting everyone to learn their hopelessly convoluted language.

Living long-term in a country where you don't speak the language can only lead to frustration and bitterness. Perhaps that explains some of the personalities here.

Are there many Singaporeans who can't speak Malay and Chinese?

Yes, actually. Many of the younger generation speak nothing but the peculiar form of local English called Singlish. It is the only thing one needs in Singapore.

Just wondered what "the language" of Singapore is.

My bf has just returned and was complaining that he found it hard to understand the local patois!

I feel your bf's pain. There is a whole generation coming up in Singapore that speaks no language like a native.

[catawampuscat]

Learning a foreign language is very difficult and requires time and effort for results.. The tonal aspect makes it more
difficult and the lack of any similarity to English adds more difficulty.
At least with other languages derived from Latin/Greek, we can figure out some words but in Thai we cannot even
read the alphabet.
One major benefit of studying Thai , is that you can appreciate the challenge faced by Thai boys to learn English..
Of course, if they stay in school thru high school, they will have had years of studying written English and grammar
but no speaking or comprehensive except in the best or private schools..

One can use the same rationalization about learning Thai as in losing weight /exercising, stopping smoking cigarettes etal...
Many of us just get fatter and less mobile year after year and resist doing anything about it..
It takes great effort and drive to improve one's
physical being/health but the results/rewards are well worth it, if one persisits.. Same with learning Thai but to each his own.

I find I have so much free time that I look for projects to keep busy.. A gym and a language school can fill up a lot of free time
especially when the bars are closed during the day.. :cat:

Learning Thai is very rewarding. You not only learn the language, but if you have a good teacher, you learn proper Thai, not barboy patois. In addition, you also learn Thai etiquette, how to do a proper wai, and stuff like that.

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

Asiagayboy, I could not agree with you more.


George.

Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".

While I find it relatively easy fixing someone's "place ... in the social heirarchy", I personally find the wai a very confusing indicator since there are simply too many variables - what is the status of the person initiating the wai, for example, is it based on age, financial status, marriage, etc, etc.

Since we, as farangs, are in an entirely different "social hierarchy", varying from farang kee-nok to farang hi-so, I find it far simpler to only wai monks and royalty, whose status is not in doubt, and to simply smile and nod instead - all Thais, as far as I am aware, accept this from farangs and it can avoid all manner of embarrassments

In addition, you also learn Thai etiquette, how to do a proper wai, and stuff like that. Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".True, but you don't need to know the language to learn those things; social etiquette such as not touching the head (well, connecting his arse to my face is an exception, I suppose) is much easier to determine by reading something like Culture Shock: Thailand

[Smiles]

" ....
Just knowing how to wai gives you lots of handy knowledge that can be used to place someone in the social hierarchy. Alas, it also makes you cringe every time you see someone waing a waiter or addressing his payboy for the night with the equivalent of "sir".While I find it relatively easy fixing someone's "place ... in the social heirarchy", I personally find the wai a very confusing indicator since there are simply too many variables - what is the status of the person initiating the wai, for example, is it based on age, financial status, marriage, etc, etc.

Since we, as farangs, are in an entirely different "social hierarchy", varying from farang kee-nok to farang hi-so, I find it far simpler to only wai monks and royalty, whose status is not in doubt, and to simply smile and nod instead - all Thais, as far as I am aware, accept this from farangs and it can avoid all manner of embarrassments ... "
"Just smiling" is the best way out in almost every circumstance. But don't be shy ... try these simple rules regarding the wai:


Don't 'wai' ... or return a wai to:

Anyone who is serving you in any commercial capacity[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Children[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Someone who is obviously drunk and is just wai-ing as an affectation. Farangs do this a lot.[/*:m:1qjulutv]

Don't wai first ... but do return a wai given to you by:

An adult obviously younger than yourself, but not to a child or teenager. But only do this once.[/*:m:1qjulutv]
A bank manager. An Immigration officer. (you know what I mean :blackeye: )[/*:m:1qjulutv]
A monk in the street (it would be rare for him to wai a farang)[/*:m:1qjulutv]

Do wai:

Good friends upon first greeting (e.g. at the airport ... after a long absence). But no more wais after that.[/*:m:1qjulutv]
The parents and older siblings of your boyfriend on each first meeting. [/*:m:1qjulutv]
The parents and older siblings of your boyfriend on each departing.[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Any adult who gives you a gift.[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Any person who you bump into (hard) on the street, in a crowded situation, in a bar. (i.e. The wai used as a form of apology)[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Any Thai person who you've had a verbal altercation with, and settled it.[/*:m:1qjulutv]


Keep it simple with the kind of wais:

Old folks, parents of your friend, and monks if it ever becomes necessary should receive a wai which just touches the bottom tip of your nose[/*:m:1qjulutv]
To everyone else, the wai should held to just under the chin, no higher.[/*:m:1qjulutv]
Don't worry about the height of the wai to the King. That'll never happen[/*:m:1qjulutv]


Hope this helps.

Cheers ...

smiles - that is really useful - thank you!

[francois]

One can use the same rationalization about learning Thai as in losing weight /exercising, stopping smoking cigarettes etal...
. :cat:

Yes, the Cat is correct! Rationalisation is my excuse for not trying to learn Thai. Always the first step is the most difficult in any enterprise.

[dave_tf-old]

It's worth mentioning that significant others you might be wanting to communicate with in Thai may not actually speak Thai as a first language. I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other. The differences in Northern and Southern Thai appear to mostly be in accent, pronunciation, and speed.

Just listening to hours and hours of tapes while driving on my former job have made me understand more than I can possibly speak. Sometimes 20% or so is all you need to get the major gist of conversation surrounding you. There is no doubt if I was to relocate that the study of the language would be near the top of my priorities.

It's worth mentioning that significant others you might be wanting to communicate with in Thai may not actually speak Thai as a first language. I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other. The differences in Northern and Southern Thai appear to mostly be in accent, pronunciation, and speed.

Just listening to hours and hours of tapes while driving on my former job have made me understand more than I can possibly speak. Sometimes 20% or so is all you need to get the major gist of conversation surrounding you. There is no doubt if I was to relocate that the study of the language would be near the top of my priorities.

Quite inaccurate.

Northern and Southern dialects are just as unintelligible to a speaker of central Thai as Isaan dialect is.

Also, I think you will be hard pressed to find a bar boy anywhere in Thailand that does not speak standard (central) Thai. It is the language of radio, TV, and all education, and is the lingua franca throughout the Kingdom. The only people from Isan you will find who don't do so are perhaps the very old and completely uneducated.

[Bob]

I'm not exactly clear on what differences Lao/Issaan bear against central Thai, but I know that exclusive speakers of each have major difficulty communicating with each other.

Khun Dawit, when yours truly and you-know-who (native born Thai from Chiangrai living in Chiangmai for the last 12 years) went to Luang Prabang a couple of years back, he eventually began to speak with the locals and seemed to communicate very well. He mentioned to me that the Lao language was "very similar" to Thai and he and they could communicate fairly well (I think he mentioned 90% to signify how much similar). He seemed surprised at the similarity.
Being able to read Thai in a mediocre manner, I noticed that the Lao letters were very similar - or at least most of them were (there's always some unusual font, both in Thai and Lao, that I have difficulty recognizing).

[Smiles]

In Isaan, most folks speak Lao "at home" and Thai elsewhere. In the southern-most provinces of Isaan (Buriram, Si Saket, Surin) along the Cambodian border many of the folks ~ especialy middleaged and older ~ speak Khymer, and this language is quite different and less well understood by Thais from elsewhere in Thailand and also northern Isaan.

My guy speaks fluent Thai, Lao, and Khymer, but when we are sitting in a music bar or restaurant it's when hearing Khymer spoken that his ears prick up and he looks around for the speaker and always goes over to introduce himself and have a good long chat. That's usually when I'm left alone to entertain myself.

Cheers ...

[TrongpaiExpat]

Boygeenus/Remote is correct, in fact if it was not for TV and the soaps the Issan education system of learning Thai might falter. Some Lao words are identical but many are not, I have no idea on the percentage but 90% seems high?

In the city of Nong Khai you can pick up Lao TV, but not most places in Issan, even on the boarder. Charley Chaplin is popular in Lao, dubbed in Lao as a narrative.

Central Thai and Bangkok ThaiChi don't learn Lao. Some speak Mandarin as the family language but many also are sent to English schools at a very young age to make English their second language.

Though, even in Bangkok there are pockets of Issan housing where the children learn Lao first and then have to pick up Thai in school. No different than second generation immigrant families to the USA.

I wish you guys would knock it off with the BG stuff, it's getting stale. All the moderators have to do is look at my IP address to tell you that I am my own man.

[catawampuscat]

Trong Pai-expat is noted for his ability to detect reappearances of bg and another notorious banned poster from as few as one
or two postings.. There are several farangs of my acquaintance who also have early warning systems but sometimes
there is a false positive and it is possible to err.

Perhaps trongpai will find the time to back up his assertion or if his evidence is flimsy, then he might want to give
remote control the benefit of the doubt.. Usually when a banned poster tries to return, his style and message give
him away and the modertors move in..

I, for one find remote control interesting and would not want him chased away in a witch hunt.. But, I also found
bg interesting and regretted his demise, so take that for what it is worth.. :cat: