Allowance for thai bf

Hi, my first post. Firstly great board~I arrived in Bangkok a few months ago and have been a background 'lurker' reading here since then.

My issue is whether, and how much, to give a thai bf as an allowance. I think an allowance is warranted, as he is a student, and I'm on an expat salary, but I don't know how much is appropriate.

A bit of background:

I'm an expat , early 30s, posted here for 3 years. He's 20, lao, has had farangs before but never a barboy, although he admits that it has tempted him. Does have a part-time job, but with negigible monthly income. I like him and want to see where things go, he's the same.We've been dating for 2 months, and I've given him some money during that time, basically because I think I ought to due to the income differential. He's never asked mefor $$ before but probably would have, direclty or indirectly, if I hadn't given him 'tuk tuk money'. But now i think we are in a position to formalise things a bit more.

I have come up with the following budget:

4000B - living allowance , transport, food etc He won't move in with me, I'm keen for him to keep his own place for the time being. Rent for that is included. This tops up his part-time earnings
3000B - Parent. They're from Laos and could probably do with the extra cash. This lets him fulfil his filial responsibility and avoids demands on me down the track.
4000B - education. Is this a lot? I have no idea how much college costs here and haven't asked him yet. I think education is worthwhile and am happy to (partially) fund it while we are together.
8000B - his 'extra money'. A mix of a savings account, money for gifts from me, money for his family's medical expenses, extra money for college fees, basically anything he wants. If we break up and he hasn't used it I'll give this to him in a bulk sum.

19,000B Total, per month, on toip of what he brings in (4000B).

My question - Is this way too much? am i being too generous? Too stingy?

Any advice relating to this issue would be appreciated.

[allieb]

He won't move in with me,

Perhaps he wouldn't be able to have other punters if he did.

Wake up!!! if he doesn't want to move in with you the he dosen't deserve anything like what you ar proposing.

Clarification:

I miswrote - He would move in with me but, based on past relationships (admittedly back home),i think its best to wait 6 months or so before taking this step.

[allieb]

Don't base Thais on relationships back home. If you really like him move in together now and see what happens. Don't wait he may get a better offer

His education was funded through part-time earnings and his brother's contribution - his brother works in a guesthouse in Luang Prabang. And he (bf) studies part-time so I guess that halves his college costs .

Agree completely with the last point - no relationship will work if its purely transactional. All the money and the best looks won't sustain anything long term. And I haven't given him much, nor has he asked, over the last couple of months, but now that we're comfortable with each other I'd like to help him out a bit ease the penny-pinching he does.

Thanks for putting what I'd proposed into perspective by the comparison with starting rates for college grads.

If you're looking for a handsome handbag I think 19000 Baht per month is not unreasonable. If you're looking for a boyfriend, you're on the wrong track all together.

My Singapore Chinese bf spends more than 19,000 baht per month on cologne.

19,000 THB! If you can afford that and think it's fair then give it to him and see what happens, don't ask us.

I had a secretary working in my office in Bangkok with a degree and very competent who was paid just over 8,000 a month. She kept her mother going and funded her various brothers expenses out of all that. We would have paid more but the Thai management insisted wages were kept in line with what similar companies paid in Bangkok. In fact we actually paid her more as 6000 was a more common salary.

Believe what you read here if he's not living with you and you give him 19,000 a month he's gonna be one rich guy about town, and it wont be long before he's asking for more.

Good luck.

Point taken - consensus does seem to be that its a bit high

Do others give an allowance to their bf? It seems natural to me to want to 'help out'.

The way I read your budget was that you would be keeping and handling the 8000 baht for savings and emergency expenses which would bring the total you actually give him down to 11000 baht. That seems more than resonable as he would continue to work some and go to school. I would also watch for the signs of his involvment with other farangs. Once they know how to play the game they become very good at it.

correct - that is what I intend.

[adman5000]

I would think something in the 8000-12000 range is pretty good. I assume he will continue with his part-time job. You don't say whether he is going to private or government university. I think costs can vary quite a bit depending. I would think for full time 15000-20000 per term average.
I would not assume providing funds for the parents now, relieves you from expectations down the road. The opposite may be true.
If he claims he needs more, moving in with you would be a way to save.
In terms of the last 8000 for extras, you could budget it, but I would base paymnet out of it on actual need, not a "golden parachute" to break up with you. I would not mention this amount to him. I would also try to be aware of what specific family needs or university needs are and offer to cover then, without being asked. I find that a better way to manage it.

But in the end it is up to you. Generally, farangs are overly generous.

Thanks, all of your comments are very helpful.

I might actually do away with the 8000 for savings and emergencies; I'm a generous soul when it comes to gifts anyway.

[Hmmm]

Personally I think you're too young to be a sugar daddy.

What's he studying and where ? University could be anything from 20,000 or less per YEAR (Ramkhamhaeng) to over 100,000 per semester (presumably unlikely in his case). Just ask him what it costs.

Most Ramkhamhaeng students would live comfortably by Thai standards on less than 5000 per month, all up (i.e. including rent).

What do his parents do ? Maybe they they don't need your help. You haven't told us much about his real backgound, but I'm not assuming. Also, if Lao males are anything like Thai males, they rarely send any money home to parents (Thai females are different).

If you want to support his basic living and education expenses, fine. But supporting his parents and adding 8000 discretionary money will create a dependant, not a bf.

I guess I don't really see it as being a sugar daddy~but you're right, probably that is how it will be interpreted.

His family live in a village not far from Pakse, in southern Laos. The family are rice farmers, Dad does a few odd jobs on top. The father's actually Thai, or 'Isaan'. Bf's been in Bangkok two years, studying part-time. His brother was here with him for a while. I'm sure they will get by just fine without me - they have for the last few decades! - but I guess I'd quite like to help out a bit. As the last poster pointed out, this could get me into a bit of trouble down the line...

Point taken about the 8000.

Not sure which college, or how much the fees are. I was making an arbitrary guess so the amount could vary downwards. If its any more than I've allowed then he could use some of his allowance to cover it. I'd be pretty surprised if its any more thna what I've budgeted though.

[Diec]

Manuel, it's obvious you are deeply in love with your BF. Why on earth would you be cheap with money for the one you love? This browned skinned lovely boy is depending on you to help him not only with his educations but with living expenses as well. You want to bring this up on a public forum? Give that boy the respect he deserves and support him!

[thanatorn-old]

I had my boyfriend send me what his budget was, and having spent time with him paying his bills when there, I am confident his list is pretty accurate. For his apartment, bike, fuel, food and whatever, he sent me a budget of about 14000 per month. He gets about 7500 per month (used to be about 15000 as he did two jobs but we agreed to stop that as it was ridiculous working 12 hours a day) which i normally top up with about 10000 per month. When i am there he obviously gets spoilt a bit, and if there are extra expenses then i either send for that or contribute to it depending on what it is for. I am pretty fortunate i think in that i do not get the sick mother or buffalo or granny stories but the truth for what it is.

[bedbugy1-old]

you have to much money and not enough brain power
a worker at 7/11 earn s less than 4000 bhat a month
for working not dossing about

My Boyfriend is a BKK office worker (with a degree) and earns 13,000 a month. I appreciate his long hours/6 days a week, and choose to help him out with an additional 10,000 baht per month. Mostly so he can rent a larger apartment with cable TV and Internet (partially for my benefit when I visit). Give what you feel comfortable, just be sure he is NOT a moneyboy with several punters providing monthly income. I do know one moneyboy that has 3 guys sending him money right now.. one from australia, one from China, and one from the USA. Saw him online last week and he was panicking because they were all in town at the same time LOL

[travelerjim]

Manuel, maybe your #4 ???

Last week I had a very interesting discussion with one of the "Waiter Staff"
in Pattaya...we had a good talk about "farangs" and how Thai boys catch them as they can.

He remarked that he has a good Thai friend who now has 3 farangs on the hook...
each sending the Thai boy 30,000, 20,000 and 10,000 baht each and every month...
total income from the 3 farangs is 60,000 baht!

The boy I was talking too said it was so sad ....as his friend was now into too much whiskey,
gambling and he thinks drugs ...and though he is the life of the big party ...when he invites
all his Thai friends to the karaoke for a night of party, whiskey and play..
his friends know the party will not last!

The Thai boy who gets the 60,000 baht does not send money home ...
nor does he save any money...baht in - baht out each month.

Such is the life of those spoiled by the likes of Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket ...etc.
and the eagerness of farangs to "please"..

So, Manuel, please be careful...and be a spendthrift...from what I have read
of your postings...I think you are soon to on "the hook"
as you are swallowing the bait and temptation...hook, line & sinker!

I will post another reply ...from my own personal experiences..
in dealing with baht and bf..but did not want to mix it with this one...

Later...and Good Luck!

Haha! All good points, cheers guys.

I'm going to dinner with him tonight so we'll sort it out. I'll ask him to volunteer his own budget, as some of you have suggested, before letting him know what I've come up with and am happy providing. Anything within the range cited here is fine by me.

I posted to ask for some advice and have recieved it, thanks again. But to protect a bit of anonymity and his privacy as well as mine I won't put the specific figures settled on in this board.

Pretty sure I'm not number 4, but if I am then there's three other lucky ones out there :)P

M

[netrix]

Listen, I'm near your age and have had a few Thai boyfriends,
both from the bars and not. Believe me (and almost everyone
else on this thread) your "bf" is going to gladly accept whatever
you give him. And if not you then some other foolish farang.

But here's the thing...If he loves you, he doesn't want or need you
to treat him like a money boy. I dated a 23 yr old univ. grad
in bkk who was proud of the fact that he earned more than any of
his friends he graduated with who had jobs. He makes 15,000 baht
per month. When we went to dinner, half the time he paid! It made
him feel good. He never asked me for anything. I gave him gifts
but never money. And if I had offered, he would have refused and
probably would have been offended!

Imagine if I had offered to give him more money a month than he
earned at his full-time job that he is so proud of. And as an allowance,
not a salary for working for me. That's an insult. If your bf is poor
or sees you as extremely rich, he will probably find it hard to not
accept your money. But don't insult him.

Let him tell you how much he would want as a "small allowance" so
you can "help him" and show him your support as his boyfriend. Then,
whatever he suggests, even if it's 2,000 baht, negotiate with him and
tell him you will increase it to what he suggests in time if/when things
work out, or when he moves in with you. If he asks for anything over
5,000 baht, he's playing you! He's testing you. And believe it or not,
he will lose respect for you if you give in to him.

19,000 baht isn't a lot of money to me either, but it is to him!!! And
it will ruin your relationship, and probably ruin your boyfriend for good
as he will learn to expect it for doing nothing...and if not from you then
from the next foolish farang he finds.

Up to you, but I think you will keep your bf, and your money longer
if you help him save face, give him some reason for self respect, and
let him tell you how much for allowance. Then tell him you'll think
about it, so you can come back here and report back to us so we can
bash you some more.

[nanette]

Dear Manuel,

Can I be your bf. I promise to be a diligent student, and will be completely devoted to you. :cherry:

DELETED

Hello Manuel,

I have a Lao bf who lives with me. I pay him 5000 baht p/m pocket money. He has no other costs, so this is for him to spend on what he wants. He sends no money home to the family and I think you'll find the Lao are not the same as Issan Thai!!! The family don't expect money from him.

To answer your question. Yes you have budgeted way too much I would say. 10,000 p/m tops all in would do him very nicely if he needs to rent away from you. If he lives with you then you don't need to give him a rent allowance so take that off also.

One thing you didn't cover is where he is based. Thailand or Laos?

Your bf doesn't send money home, so that is extrapolated as a cultural phenomenon among the Lao in general?

DELETED

Its what he tells me. "We are not the same as Thai" he says.

No one ever said they were the same as Thai. But you need to stop generalizing based on your experiences with this one Lao kid.

[a447]

Try not giving him ANY money for a month or so and see if he sticks around.
Since when are guys given a monthly wage referred to as "boyfriends?" Aren't they money-boys or rent-boys??

[PinkSilom]

Paying for dinner/drinks/his transport to visit you is necessary due to your friend's income. A447 is right, the moment you give him money, he becomes a 'money boy'. That's how Thai and farang society will see him. If that doesn't bother you or him, go ahead and pay him the 5000 baht that John Botting suggests.

[quote="John Botting":6bnjgvbh]Its what he tells me. "We are not the same as Thai" he says.

No one ever said they were the same as Thai. But you need to stop generalizing based on your experiences with this one Lao kid.[/quote:6bnjgvbh]

As long as what this "innocent" Lao boy (who latched on to El Presidente once he and the German he had been with in Bangkok for two years had finished) says is anti-Thai, then he will take it as true and tell the rest of us that his is the voice of experience. Sad.

5,000 baht "pocket-money" per month - small wonder you could not find a Thai to live with you for that sort of salary. Slave labour went out here under Rama V, in case it had escaped your notice.

This poster obviously has a serious problem with John Botting.
Instead of boring us with puerile bitchy rejoinders to every one of Johns posts why don't you sort out whatever issue you have with John and stop boring the rest of us

This poster obviously has a serious problem with John BottingPattaya posters usually have too much time on their hands - look at the length of some of the posts from George as well

[mahjongguy]

For 30 years my father deposited much of his every paycheck into a bank account which he had opened for this woman who shared his life. She was my mom, his wife. No one ever called her a money-girl.


When I met my b/f 3 years ago he was working 84 hours a week. It took a while but I finally persuaded him to cut that in half and let me make up the difference. Today he has a much better job, and his allowance has grown to more than 20,000 baht, none of which he spends on himself. Half goes to his family and the rest is for the future.

Lately his self-esteem has leaped to a new level; I bought us a car and put it in his name. Why not? If he should ever run off with it, then no more allowance; I'll be ahead financially soon enough.

Two points: he's no kid. He's 33 already. And my "sharing the harvest" is something that has happened slowly, step by step as we gain trust in each other.

I have come up with the following budget:

4000B - living allowance , transport, food etc He won't move in with me, I'm keen for him to keep his own place for the time being. Rent for that is included. This tops up his part-time earnings
3000B - Parent. They're from Laos and could probably do with the extra cash. This lets him fulfil his filial responsibility and avoids demands on me down the track.
4000B - education. Is this a lot? I have no idea how much college costs here and haven't asked him yet. I think education is worthwhile and am happy to (partially) fund it while we are together.
8000B - his 'extra money'. A mix of a savings account, money for gifts from me, money for his family's medical expenses, extra money for college fees, basically anything he wants. If we break up and he hasn't used it I'll give this to him in a bulk sum.

19,000B Total, per month, on toip of what he brings in (4000B).

My question - Is this way too much? am i being too generous? Too stingy?

Any advice relating to this issue would be appreciated.

ola Manuel... for that kind of money... I'll be your boyfriend okay!! Porque... you stingy? No! No! Me amore... just give me your ATM okay!! I'll love you long time..........

[seahko-old]

Why would you ever want to keep a bf for since you can have different guy every night not to mention the gay bars.Far more cheaper with so much choices to look forward to. Moreover there is no risk of being heartbroken once he decides to leave you for a reason.Like me be a butterfly often say by the local thai people & enjoy life.

DELETED

Wow - certainly a few replies, and a range of opinions.

You'll all be pleased to know this little tale has had a happy ending (or beginning?); I'm quite chuffed with how things went over dinner.

To answer a few of the comments directly:

- BF is in Bangkok
- I'm not a 'butterfly', never have been save for a phase I went through when I came out. Nothing against it, have a heap of friends back home who change partners more often than socks, just not my thing.
- To the ironic bf 'offers' - regretfully, even assured that you're all six foot sex gods with sparkling and witty personalities, I must decline.

[netrix]

what's the happy ending/beginning? and what the heck is a chuff??

[Sen Yai]

.......... and what the heck is a chuff??

chuff ~ 1. v fart. 2 n one's posterior. 3 expl usable much the same as "fuck" as a general swear word: it was all going fine until the chuffing pigs turned up. Entirely seperate to the word "chuffed" so use with care.

chuffed ~ adj generally happy with life. You can also get away with saying you are "unchuffed" or "dischuffed" if something gets your back up. Make sure you only use this word in the correct tense and familiarise yourself with the meaning of the word "chuff" too.

It's all explained here: english2american.com/ (http://english2american.com/)

and what the heck is a chuff??

http://www.choughs.co.uk/images/chough.jpg
The Chough, pronounced Chuff, (Pyrrhocorax pyrrhocorax)
Once a common bird throughout the UK has become a restricted resident mainly found in West Wales and West Ireland

.......... and what the heck is a chuff??

chuff ~ 1. v fart. 2 n one's posterior. 3 expl usable much the same as "fuck" as a general swear word: it was all going fine until the chuffing pigs turned up. Entirely seperate to the word "chuffed" so use with care.

chuffed ~ adj generally happy with life. You can also get away with saying you are "unchuffed" or "dischuffed" if something gets your back up. Make sure you only use this word in the correct tense and familiarise yourself with the meaning of the word "chuff" too.

It's all explained here: english2american.com/ (http://english2american.com/)

Thanks for the definition Sen Yai. I was always too lazy to look it up since I suspected it to be jargon which would fall out of fashion the moment I knew what it meant. Thanks again! I'm chuffed!

[allieb]

For 30 years my father deposited much of his every paycheck into a bank account which he had opened for this woman who shared his life. She was my mom, his wife. No one ever called her a money-girl.

How could you ever compare your mother and father with a Bangkok bar boy / girl and punter.

However you like to put it when money changes hands in Thailand between a Farang and a Thai its sexual services purchased. Did your father give his sweetheart money for her parents or buy them a new Buffalo (tractor) or pay her education and is your father 35 years older than your mother?

[Brad the Impala]

For 30 years my father deposited much of his every paycheck into a bank account which he had opened for this woman who shared his life. She was my mom, his wife. No one ever called her a money-girl.

How could you ever compare your mother and father with a Bangkok bar boy / girl and punter.

However you like to put it when money changes hands in Thailand between a Farang and a Thai its sexual services purchased. Did your father give his sweetheart money for her parents or buy them a new Buffalo (tractor) or pay her education and is your father 35 years older than your mother?


Where there is a significant disparity in assets, it is not uncommon for wealthy children to buy their parents, or their partner's parents, a new home or to try to make their life more comfortable. This happens in both Asian and Western cultures. What do age or racial disparities have to do with it?

[PinkSilom]

'She was my mom, his wife. No one ever called her a money-girl.'

But, if your mother was Thai and your father a Western sex tourist ...

[sjaak327]

A lot of opinions that are too general in nature. Lao boys are not the same as issan boys is one of them. Or Lao boys don't send money home to their parents.


I happen to know three Lao boys (one of them is my boyfirend of 4 years) and all of them work (illigally) and sent money home to their parents. One is a cook, the other one is a car mechanic and the last one is a pizza delivery boy. All of them have choosen Bangkok as their place to work. All of them on forged Thai Id cards.

I know how their parents live, as I have stayed at my family in law, several times. They have next to nothing, and a small donation each month is welcomed to supplement the rice farming income. I give them 5 to 10 thousand baht each month, which enables them to make improvements to the house, maybe buy a new TV or DVD player, and stuff like that.

Currently my Lao boyfriend will be doing the monthly donation, as he has find some work back in the Netherlands, (he is not suppose to work on a tourist visa, but we take this small risk), so it's fair to say that some of the general remarks about Lao boys are just that, way to general.

DELETED

[allieb]

For 30 years my father deposited much of his every paycheck into a bank account which he had opened for this woman who shared his life. She was my mom, his wife. No one ever called her a money-girl.

How could you ever compare your mother and father with a Bangkok bar boy / girl and punter.

However you like to put it when money changes hands in Thailand between a Farang and a Thai its sexual services purchased. Did your father give his sweetheart money for her parents or buy them a new Buffalo (tractor) or pay her education and is your father 35 years older than your mother?


Where there is a significant disparity in assets, it is not uncommon for wealthy children to buy their parents, or their partner's parents, a new home or to try to make their life more comfortable. This happens in both Asian and Western cultures. What do age or racial disparities have to do with it?


Mahjonguy is comparing his mum and dad with a completely different situation. However much it my displease you the bottom line is Thailand is basically Jons and whores. Oh yeah yeah yeah now tell me that you have a sound relationship which isn't based on money. For every one that isn't based on money then there are 100 that are. There are so many fools on this board that think they have the special boy who loves them and not the money. Love is a four lettered word BAHT

This poster obviously has a serious problem with John Botting.
Instead of boring us with puerile bitchy rejoinders to every one of Johns posts why don't you sort out whatever issue you have with John and stop boring the rest of us

You may consider them "puerile and bitchy" - I respond to any post I consider factually incorrect which I find worth responding to irrespective of the poster, consequently some posters may be condemned on one post and supported on another. As far as El Presidente is concerned, I happen to disagree with most of what he posts, which I consider one-sided and inaccurate. You may find it boring - others do not, so they have informed me. If you are bored, the solution is to ignore me - you are not being forced to read my, or anyone else's, posts.

DELETED

However much it my displease you the bottom line is Thailand is basically Jons and whores.

Maybe you need to clarify that remark. There are around 60 million people in Thailand. How did you possibly find the time to travel and meet so many people and learn about their relationships to form that opinion?? Or did you mean Pattaya when you wrote Thailand?

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Gone Fishing":3rjk8j1o][quote="LC Sulla":3rjk8j1o]This poster obviously has a serious problem with John Botting.
Instead of boring us with puerile bitchy rejoinders to every one of Johns posts why don't you sort out whatever issue you have with John and stop boring the rest of us

You may consider them "puerile and bitchy" - I respond to any post I consider factually incorrect which I find worth responding to irrespective of the poster, consequently some posters may be condemned on one post and supported on another. As far as El Presidente is concerned, I happen to disagree with most of what he posts, which I consider one-sided and inaccurate. You may find it boring - others do not, so they have informed me. If you are bored, the solution is to ignore me - you are not being forced to read my, or anyone else's, posts.[/quote:3rjk8j1o]

Funny enough Gone Mad I have received many PMs telling me what an idiot you are, including one from a mod!!![/quote:3rjk8j1o]

I find this hard to believe. Shades of LMTU and his email army of many supporters. On the other hand if you did receive a PM from the moderator, it was a PM and hardly meant to be quoted on the forum.

[allieb]

"Mahjonguy is comparing his mum and dad with a completely different situation. However much it my displease you the bottom line is Thailand is basically Jons and whores. Oh yeah yeah yeah now tell me that you have a sound relationship which isn't based on money. For every one that isn't based on money then there are 100 that are. There are so many fools on this board that think they have the special boy who loves them and not the money. Love is a four lettered word BAHT"

Allieb I think you must have had some bad experiences to say this. There are plenty of loving relationships where money is not an issue (except for budgeting a normal household). Moneyboys do not represent all Thai gays, and you don't represent all Farang gay men, any more than I do. I suggest you get out from the bar scene and meet some real people who have real feelings.

I must admit that all my trips have been to Pattaya and Bangkok and I take your point that there are real people out there who have loving relationships. I do believe that most posters on this board are in their senior years and the boys they chase in the bars are very much their juniors I have also seen so many old farang fools in Pattaya and Bangkok who are in La La land regarding their relationships. Perhaps my comments should be directed to the gay bar scene.

By the way I have only ever had someone come on to me once for free in Thailand in a dozen or so trips. Perhaps you are right if I made a trip to the provinces and get away from the Urban scene I might see something different

[sjaak327]

^ well, I stay clear of the whole bar scene in any case. I'm 36 and my Bf is 30 so not much of an age difference as well.

The stereotype while understandable doesn't rule out normal relationships that can be pursued between farang and Thai people (or Lao in this case).

Funny enough Gone Mad I have received many PMs telling me what an idiot you are, including one from a mod!!!

Sadly there is little funny about most of El Presidente's posts; I would not call him "an idiot" as that would be an excuse for the inexcusable flow of unpleasant and unjustifiable slurs on all those with whom he has had failed relationships, particularly Thais.

I don't know if those for or against were on scooters or bikes - does this somehow make their opinion any more important or them any better informed?

[Smiles]

"... 19,000B Total, per month, on toip of what he brings in (4000B).

My question - Is this way too much? am i being too generous? Too stingy? ... "
I think you already know quite well the answer to this one, as well as knowing the kind of responses you'd get. Not sure if you're putting us on or not (but probably) . . . but I'll bite anyway: the simple answer is if you can afford it easily, why not?
19 grand a month would make any young Thai (or Lao) exceedingly happy. And who likes an unhappy young Thai (or Lao)?

But I think the original post is a windup.

Cheers ...

Missed this previously, which I am sure will have pleased LC Sulla.


What the fuck you talking about Gone Mad? He was not with a German for 2 years before me it was one year. If you are going to talk about me then at least get the facts right.

What a difference a year makes. I was basing this on your previous post, giving details on him such as his "two years with a German in Bangkok". It is difficult to "get the facts right" when time seems to be a variable to you.


And 5000 Baht pocket money, when he has no other expenses is extremely fair when you consider he would have to work 6 days a week at Big C for a month to earn that in the real world. My Thai bf got paid 12,000 Baht p/m, however he actually worked for me in my car rental business.

Fair? Fair?? I am surprised you can spell the word. You claim this is a "serious relationship", yet his "pocket money" for sleeping with and taking care of the Monster from the Black Lagoon is no more than he would earn in the most simple and menial of jobs, such as a security guard (around 180 baht a day). Fair? A serious relationship? As his "pocket money" has to cover his phone calls, clothes "weekly facials", etc, how does this compare with your "pocket money"?

Just for once be honest and call it what it is - cheap.

A couple of months and you will be back "in the real world" - the sooner the better.

On the other hand if you did receive a PM from the moderator, it was a PM and hardly meant to be quoted on the forum.You need to get over this fantasy, Brad. Anyone who PMs me can assume I may publish it. I even quote PMs others have received and forwarded to me - just ask Our Resident Bodhisattva

[Brad the Impala]

On the other hand if you did receive a PM from the moderator, it was a PM and hardly meant to be quoted on the forum.You need to get over this fantasy, Brad. Anyone who PMs me can assume I may publish it. I even quote PMs others have received and forwarded to me - just ask Our Resident Bodhisattva

We should all be guided by your standards? If something is called a Private Message...........I think the clue is in the title.

[quote="Brad the Impala":1um06tvc]On the other hand if you did receive a PM from the moderator, it was a PM and hardly meant to be quoted on the forum.You need to get over this fantasy, Brad. Anyone who PMs me can assume I may publish it. I even quote PMs others have received and forwarded to me - just ask Our Resident BodhisattvaWe should all be guided by your standards? If something is called a Private Message...........I think the clue is in the title.[/quote:1um06tvc]Those are my standards if you choose to PM me. I regard "Private" in this context as something that probably need not bother other members - it certainly isn't "Confidential". You are trying to confer on the word more than it means - think private business and general business - it means no more than that. It's certainly not "secret"

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[Brad the Impala]

Spot on Homi. If someone PM's me and they call it confidential then that's confidential as far as I am concerned. If it's not marked that way then its not.

Policeman Brad is spouting off his form of law again as well as Gone Mad.

So why don't you post the PM from the Moderator, to confirm your statement that he is calling one of our more interesting posters an idiot.

Spot on Homi. If someone PM's me and they call it confidential then that's confidential as far as I am concerned. If it's not marked that way then its not.

Policeman Brad is spouting off his form of law again as well as Gone Mad.

Brad,

as I see it there are two problems here (and I don't mean Homi and El Presidente!).

The first is an understanding of basic English.

Private (Roget's Thesaurus - UK English):confidential, personal, secret, clandestine, concealed, hush-hush, classified, secretive, privileged, restricted, not public, exclusive, reserved,
Private (Encarta Dictionary - North American English): kept secret or restricted, personal, not public, reserved and secretive

Policeman Presidente and Colonel Homi clearly have their own form of English as well as law.

The second is more perplexing. While I do not really mind what someone calls me (although I would prefer a more constructive form of discussion), I am surprised that either Elephantspike or Jinks are sending private messages of support to someone whose main line of posts (apart from his advertisements and advocating sex with boys under the legal age) consist of repeatedly voicing his dislike of Pattaya in particular and Thailand and Thais in general. If true, very strange. ,

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Are you seriously saying that you have never posted the following statements:

"Sex with a 17 year old is fine as long as you pay for it"

"Sex with a 16 year old is legal in my home country. It doesnt make you a pedophile."

"I don't know of anyone whos been prosecuted for sex with a 17 year old" ?

While the legal age in the UK may be 16, here it is 18 for "working" boys/girls having paid sex, as I am sure you know - anyone under the age of 18 is under age. End of story. While you are entitled to your opinion and to state your disagreement with the Thai law it does not change the legal position. Boys of 16 can join the Army in the UK and be sent to a war zone at 17, while in Thailand they have to be 21 - age limits vary from country to country, as I am sure you know.

While a 17 year old may only be under age by as little as one day, he is still legally under age. It is like being "a little bit pregnant" - either you are or you are not, it is black and white, there is no gray.

Clearly nothing has changed in the last two years:

"me being an ex UK police officer has nothing to do with my actions in this country. I soon forgot my previous morals and ethics at about the third time I paid an official to do his job with-in the first 3 months of me arriving in this paradise (?)"

The difference between your views and mine are obvious, as are your morals, ethics and your views of your responsibilities in both you personal and your business life; these are clearly not going to change. You have made your views on and your dislike of Pattaya, Thai people and Thailand in general very clear; as you said last year "the Thai way is not for me". I find the reverse to be true and that is why I am glad to be living here, with a Thai partner.

I am sure this has become tedious for anyone who still bothers to read it (if anyone still does, after over 2,500 views!); my original point in posting on this thread was not that I disagreed with you, per se, but that I did not consider 5,000 baht per month a reasonable allowance from a farang for a Thai / Lao live-in partner in a serious relationship for their personal expenses in Thailand- that has been obscured by the subsequent personal sparring, but my view has not changed. I think that point has now been made as clearly as it is ever going to be.

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[Brad the Impala]

OK, firstly please show me my whole post about sex with a 17 year old. I believe I said sex with a 17 year old is OK as long as you DON"T pay for it. It is legal to have sex with a 15 year old in this country as long as money doesn't change hands. However we all know that if it involves a farang, money will always be involved one way or another.

And I stand by my statement about sex with a 16 year old, or 15 even. You are not a pedophile. A pedophile is someone who has sex with a minor (pre-pubescent). Look it up in a dictionary. I am not saying it is right to do these things, just stating a fact.


So Fishing was correct when he said that you had made these statements.




And my god, you are really infatuated by me aren't you? Digging up really old posts, you must lead a boring and uneventful life. I feel slightly sorry for you actually. Sadly there are many old men in Thailand in the same boat as you.

You asked Fishing to substantiate his comments or withdraw them. He substantiated them, and is accused of infatuation!

Now how about you substantiate your comments about how our Moderator is calling posters idiots.



My views about Thailand are from a younger person who has tried to do business here and has had to run the mass of hurdles and officials put in your way to stop you. I soon learnt that the English ways of doing business didn't apply here, and if I wanted to make a go of it I had to play their game. If you are here retired, things are different and much easier.


You expected the "English" way of doing business to apply? Had you ever travelled or worked outside the UK before?

OK, firstly please show me my whole post about sex with a 17 year old. I believe I said sex with a 17 year old is OK as long as you DON"T pay for it.

Your memory seeme so be failing you - fortunately you still have the intelligence to be able to use the "delete" button (as anyone can see who now tries to find this post).

As B the I points out, you asked me to "post here any post I have mad advocating sex with under age boys." I did. A brief search, based on remembered posts, took some 30 seconds. A "minor" is not someone who is "pre-pubescent", but is one who is not legally an adult - "Look it up in a dictionary"; what you have advocated, repeatedly (sex with minors up to two years below the legal age), would have you legally registered as a sex offender in your own country.


And my god, you are really infatuated by me aren't you? Digging up really old posts, you must lead a boring and uneventful life. I feel slightly sorry for you actually. Sadly there are many old men in Thailand in the same boat as you.

You flatter yourself. Infatuation and antipathy are not the same thing. It is hardly relevant, but my life has actually been anything but uneventful - what you consider a major event in your life I find mundane. Not having met any "old men in Thailand in the same boat as" myself, I think you are probably making your normal generalisations and assumptions.


My views about Thailand are from a younger person who has tried to do business here and has had to run the mass of hurdles and officials put in your way to stop you..

Your assumption of my age is incorrect, as I am of a similar age to you. You appear to feel far sorrier for yourself than you do for me: many others have "tried to do business here and ... had to run the mass of hurdles and officials put in your way to stop you". Some have succeeded, some have failed, but I have never known anyone who has constantly blamed other individuals and entire races for every failure in their personal and business life as you have done.


I soon learnt that the English ways of doing business didn't apply here, and if I wanted to make a go of it I had to play their game.

And you seriously expected the "English way" and the Thai way to be the same? No wonder you failed.


If you are here retired, things are different and much easier.

A valid point at last, Captain Obvious!

I have responded to your posts because they show such a consistently blinkered and unpleasant view of Thailand and all things Thai, blaming them for your own failures, that they are totally misleading to anyone reading them. I am surprised that the last two posts alone have had some 500 views so far, but hopefully the readers will not not leave here believing your views to be correct.

... our resident bush lawyer, clearly has nothing better to do with his time. One of the meanings of private ie. "not public", was included in the thesaurus list he provided. Note that a thesaurus is not a dictionary - it is a collection of synonyms. A synonym means a word or phrase of similar meaning

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[Brad the Impala]

I'm not going to keep on about this Gone Mad, but I have certainly not failed in this country. I have been here for 5 years, live well off the money I have survived in this country, without having to bring in money from outside to prop myself up. And when I eventually get me freedom I will go home with double the money I bought here. If you class that as failure then thats up to you. I certainly do not, and I go home back to civilization with my head held high.

And get it right about the law please. The law in my country allows me to have homosexual sex with a 16 year old, or straight sex also. The only exception is teachers cannot have sex with students. I worked within the law for 15 years.

The dialogue about the legal age of consent of course relates to this country, Thailand, not our home countries. I hope that you enjoy your retirement back in "civilization".

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Certainly no retirement Brad. I will be working once I get my health sorted out. Too young to retire yet.Just a reminder to the Board nasties du jour - there's a long thread from not so long ago where John details the state of his health (prostate cancer) and various posters gave their opinions on his course of action. I wish him all the best

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And get it right about the law please. The law in my country allows me to have homosexual sex with a 16 year old, or straight sex also. The only exception is teachers cannot have sex with students. I worked within the law for 15 years.

As B the I rightly said, you are not in your home country, so the laws there have no relevance here whatsoever.

You are totally incorrect that "The only exception is teachers cannot have sex with students" concerning the age of consent; the law refers to all those "in a position of trust" in residential homes, institutions, hospitals, schools, etc, and it does not include teachers and students in regular day schools - teachers may be violating their professional code of ethics, but not the law. One does not need to be a "bush lawyer" to be aware of this, merely to be able to read.

As I recall you actually left the police after 6 years on the beat, plus training which was clearly limited; the remainder was spent as a volunteer. What you actually mean is that you worked within law enforcement; working "within the law" is something everyone does who is not breaking it.

If you have been so successful and made so much money, enabling you to "live well", it merely supports my original point in posting on this thread, that your 5,000 baht per month for a live-in boyfriend is anything but fair or reasonable and is not only mean but borders on being insulting.

[allieb]

If you have been so successful and made so much money, enabling you to "live well", it merely supports my original point in posting on this thread, that your 5,000 baht per month for a live-in boyfriend is anything but fair or reasonable and is not only mean but borders on being insulting.

Considering the amount of time John has been with his bf I think that 5,000 baht is a generous sum for pocket money. As he is living in with John I'm sure that he gets a live of luxury all found, no bills to worry about at the end of each month and future as John plans to have a civil partnership with him take him to the UK and get him out of Pattaya.

Gone Fishing. On reading your posts you sound to me like a very complicated person nit picking at everything and yes if you paid 5,000 baht to your bf you would be mean and insulting as in my opinion it would need very large amounts of money to compensate a boy for putting up with your cross examinations

[Brad the Impala]

If you have been so successful and made so much money, enabling you to "live well", it merely supports my original point in posting on this thread, that your 5,000 baht per month for a live-in boyfriend is anything but fair or reasonable and is not only mean but borders on being insulting.

Considering the amount of time John has been with his bf I think that 5,000 baht is a generous sum for pocket money. As he is living in with John I'm sure that he gets a live of luxury all found, no bills to worry about at the end of each month and future as John plans to have a civil partnership with him take him to the UK and get him out of Pattaya.

Gone Fishing. On reading your posts you sound to me like a very complicated person nit picking at everything and yes if you paid 5,000 baht to your bf you would be mean and insulting as in my opinion it would need very large amounts of money to compensate a boy for putting up with your cross examinations

Should the duration of the relationship be a factor in the BF allowance? An interesting concept, and does it go up or down as time goes by?

5,000 Baht is surely a very small allowance to give your partner, if you are a man of means.

[Aunty]

Certainly no retirement Brad. I will be working once I get my health sorted out. Too young to retire yet.Just a reminder to the Board nasties du jour - there's a long thread from not so long ago where John details the state of his health (prostate cancer) and various posters gave their opinions on his course of action. I wish him all the best

For once, Beryl, I agree with you. (Let's not make it a habit!) John Botting is in a the middle of his battle with cancer and undergoing active chemotherapy. To be subjected to this sort of badgering by two selfish and self-serving members of this board at a time like this is a disgrace! While I've always known the Bradley is nothing more than a piece of low-class garbage, (and we certainly have the proof of that now) Gone Fishing is equally a vile and odious creature worthy of nothing but contempt. Gone Fishing, you bore the tits off of me.

This is where moderation on this board fails. This thread should never have been allowed to descend to this level of abuse and attack without it having been closed long ago.

And by the way, 5000 Baht a month - in Pattaya - to a bf who doesn't have to pay any rent, food or utlility charges, oh please. Some of you old fools really need to get your heads out of your arses!

[Brad the Impala]

Certainly no retirement Brad. I will be working once I get my health sorted out. Too young to retire yet.Just a reminder to the Board nasties du jour - there's a long thread from not so long ago where John details the state of his health (prostate cancer) and various posters gave their opinions on his course of action. I wish him all the best

For once, Beryl, I agree with you. (Let's not make it a habit!) John Botting is in a the middle of his battle with cancer and undergoing active chemotherapy. To be subjected to this sort of badgering by two selfish and self-serving members of this board at a time like this is a disgrace! While I've always known the Bradley is nothing more than a piece of low-class garbage, (and we certainly have the proof of that now) Gone Fishing is equally a vile and odious creature worthy of nothing but contempt. Gone Fishing, you bore the tits off of me.

This is where moderation on this board fails. This thread should never have been allowed to descend to this level of abuse and attack without it having been closed long ago.

And by the way, 5000 Baht a month - in Pattaya - to a bf who doesn't have to pay any rent, food or utlility charges, oh please. Some of you old fools really need to get your heads out of your arses!

In cae you didn't notice, this thread was started by a poster requesting advice on an allowance for his boyfriend. JB wrote that he considered 5,000 per month sufficient, if a poster has a different opinion, should we not post that opinion because JB has health problems?!

You obviously have a problem understanding the concept of a forum.

[allieb]

[quote="Gone Fishing":35o7fzyi]If you have been so successful and made so much money, enabling you to "live well", it merely supports my original point in posting on this thread, that your 5,000 baht per month for a live-in boyfriend is anything but fair or reasonable and is not only mean but borders on being insulting.

Considering the amount of time John has been with his bf I think that 5,000 baht is a generous sum for pocket money. As he is living in with John I'm sure that he gets a live of luxury all found, no bills to worry about at the end of each month and future as John plans to have a civil partnership with him take him to the UK and get him out of Pattaya.

Gone Fishing. On reading your posts you sound to me like a very complicated person nit picking at everything and yes if you paid 5,000 baht to your bf you would be mean and insulting as in my opinion it would need very large amounts of money to compensate a boy for putting up with your cross examinations

Should the duration of the relationship be a factor in the BF allowance? An interesting concept, and does it go up or down as time goes by?

5,000 Baht is surely a very small allowance to give your partner, if you are a man of means.[/quote:35o7fzyi]


Brad

There are a lot of nasty little gold diggers in Pattaya and there are also some genuine boys about. It doesn't matter about a mans means. 5,000 baht and all found is enough at this stage and yes the amount should go up in time and not down. It's easy to give but difficult to take away. Its also easy to spoil a boy and turn him into a gold digger. In Thailand I would proceed with caution as I believe there is more bad than good. John is going to take this boy to the UK and take him out of the rat race of Pattaya and the rest of Thailand This is worth a lot more than short time cash

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Gone Fishing":3jdo201c]If you have been so successful and made so much money, enabling you to "live well", it merely supports my original point in posting on this thread, that your 5,000 baht per month for a live-in boyfriend is anything but fair or reasonable and is not only mean but borders on being insulting.

Considering the amount of time John has been with his bf I think that 5,000 baht is a generous sum for pocket money. As he is living in with John I'm sure that he gets a live of luxury all found, no bills to worry about at the end of each month and future as John plans to have a civil partnership with him take him to the UK and get him out of Pattaya.

Gone Fishing. On reading your posts you sound to me like a very complicated person nit picking at everything and yes if you paid 5,000 baht to your bf you would be mean and insulting as in my opinion it would need very large amounts of money to compensate a boy for putting up with your cross examinations

Should the duration of the relationship be a factor in the BF allowance? An interesting concept, and does it go up or down as time goes by?

5,000 Baht is surely a very small allowance to give your partner, if you are a man of means.


Brad

There are a lot of nasty little gold diggers in Pattaya and there are also some genuine boys about. It doesn't matter about a mans means. 5,000 baht and all found is enough at this stage and yes the amount should go up in time and not down. It's easy to give but difficult to take away. Its also easy to spoil a boy and turn him into a gold digger. In Thailand I would proceed with caution as I believe there is more bad than good. John is going to take this boy to the UK and take him out of the rat race of Pattaya and the rest of Thailand This is worth a lot more than short time cash[/quote:3jdo201c]

A good point, well made.

However I still think that "generous" is not an accurate description, and getting a "partnership" visa for the UK is far from a foregone conclusion.

Considering the amount of time John has been with his bf I think that 5,000 baht is a generous sum for pocket money. As he is living in with John I'm sure that he gets a live of luxury .... John plans to have a civil partnership with him take him to the UK and get him out of Pattaya.... in my opinion it would need very large amounts of money to compensate a boy for putting up with your cross examinations

Allieb,

you appear to have missed a few crucial points:

JB and his bf have already been together for a year and a half; how long does "proceeding with caution" take? If "the amount should go up in time and not down" what do you consider a fair starting rate?

He is from Lao; far from taking him "out of the rat race of Pattaya and the rest of Thailand", JB brought him to Pattaya!

On what grounds are you so "sure that he gets a live of luxury"?

How do you know what will happen to him in the UK that will be so much better than "short time cash", if he goes there and if the Civil Partnership happens? You can have no idea what his or JB's circumstances will be if / when he goes there.

I have never cross-examined my partner (with whom I already have a UK Civil Partnership); this is both baseless and irrelevant.

While "It doesn't matter about a mans means" is a fair comment when it comes to an employee's salary, this should be far from the case where it is supposed to be a serious relationship, as in this case. You and JB clearly have very different views from my own where it concerns the meaning and the obligations of a relationship and a partnership.


John Botting is in a the middle of his battle with cancer and undergoing active chemotherapy. To be subjected to this sort of badgering by two selfish and self-serving members of this board at a time like this is a disgrace!

Aunty,

while I have every sympathy for JB in his fight with cancer, I simply cannot agree with your view that this gives him any more right to be as "selfish and self-serving" on this board as he is and to post his views unopposed than anyone else, or negates my right to respond to what I see as misleading and often baseless and unfair posts.

Does this make him any better informed, more knowledgeable, more rational and fair-minded? Does it justify his promoting his own fund-raisers and himself while disparaging that of the PGF and criticizing them? Does it give him the right to call all Thai men "huge cowards" and to label all Thais as "all about the money" and corrupt, and to constantly criticize their morals and their family values without dissent or contradiction and to infer that they are uncivilized? Does it give him the right to call any individual, particularly those who do not even post here, an "arsehole", a "wanker" or "ungrateful bastards", without their being allowed to defend themselves?

You very clearly think that it does and that this is acceptable. I do not. Does that make me "vile, odious and contemptible"? That is a matter of opinion, which fortunately we are all allowed to have and to state.

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My mistake - again I posted based on my recollection of what you had posted previously, which was again confirmed when I checked using the excellent search engine. Clearly my mistake and I was wrong to take anything you said at face value, as anyone else would be. I am relieved you did not deny or correct me on any of the other unpleasant and unwarranted comments and slurs I said you had made, as it saved me wasting time cross-checking them, although I am sure they will still be fresh in many readers' minds.

On 12 May 06:


As a police officer of 15 years (7 full time, 8 part time) in the UK

"Obsession" - antipathy is more accurate, as I have said, along with repugnance - add to that surprise that some posters, such as Allieb who is usually more rational, would support someone with your bigoted and self-serving views.

[Smiles]

What was the original topic question? (In spite of Gone Fishing who obviously has Gone Bananas, and Mr Botting who just as obviously has morphed back into his 'Beat the Crap Outta You' 16th personality.

Oh yeah:

" ... I have come up with the following budget:

4000B - living allowance , transport, food etc He won't move in with me, I'm keen for him to keep his own place for the time being. Rent for that is included. This tops up his part-time earnings
3000B - Parent. They're from Laos and could probably do with the extra cash. This lets him fulfil his filial responsibility and avoids demands on me down the track.
4000B - education. Is this a lot? I have no idea how much college costs here and haven't asked him yet. I think education is worthwhile and am happy to (partially) fund it while we are together.
8000B - his 'extra money'. A mix of a savings account, money for gifts from me, money for his family's medical expenses, extra money for college fees, basically anything he wants. If we break up and he hasn't used it I'll give this to him in a bulk sum.

19,000B Total, per month, on toip of what he brings in (4000B) ... "
Answer: totally ridiculous in the light of this quote from the same/original topic-starter, in the same paragraph:

" ... we've been dating for two months ... "
Quite idiotic. Especially since Manuel has not replied to a single post on this dumb thread (made dumber and more off-topic my Mr's Fishing & Botting) since Page 3 on May 1.

Cheers ...

[PeterUK]

this dumb thread

Agreed. I see some point to people pointing out what they think is, IN GENERAL TERMS, a reasonable allowance for a Thai boyfriend, in order to provide guidelines for others, but for posters to harangue someone for being stingy when they know virtually nothing about the particular relationship is ill-mannered and boorish in the extreme. Thai boys have several times told me that they would rather live with a farang they like who gives them a small allowance than with one they don't like who gives them a big allowance. Money is far from being the only consideration in a relationship. If the boyfriend is satisfied with his allowance (and presumably in this case he is since he has been living with the farang for over a year), then that is the end of the matter in my opinion and it is not for others to stick in their outsize oar. I think 'antipathy' has warped judgement in this case.

Smiles and Peter UK, I quite agree with both of you!!

Peter UK,

I think you have hit the nail on the head ("I think 'antipathy' has warped judgement in this case"), at least as regards my judgement in continuing to respond on this thread - I am sure most still reading this (and apparently there are a lot) have already made up their minds about the relative merits of Bananas and Botting, so consequently there is little point in my posting on this particular thread again.

I also agree with you totally that "Money is far from being the only consideration in a relationship", which is why I did not give any specific figure myself. When my partner first came to live with me it was strictly as a "houseboy" (whose duties were to take care of my house, garden, animals, etc, rather than me) whom I knew I could trust, who was paid a salary of 4,000 baht per month (plus food and his own accommodation in the Maid's house), which was reasonable then for an employee doing his particular job. When it became a relationship, rather than a convenience, things changed, as I have explained elsewhere.

Smiles and Peter UK, thanks for the wake-up call; had others been as polite and rational I may have heeded it earlier!

When my partner first came to live with me it was strictly as a "houseboy"Screwing the servants, eh? Very droit de seigneur :idea:

[Khor tose]

Gone fishing said that the boy was his employee, not that he was a virgin. I am going to try to choose my words very carefully here. I do not mean to offend the members of this board who are English (I mean English not British), but in America the distinction between the meaning of the terms "employer and employee" is very distinct from the meaning of the terms "master and servant". My travels in England, having friends who are English, and Homi's comments have all lead me to believe that the distinction between these two different meanings is not as clear in England. A class system still seems to exist in England.

"Especially since Manuel has not replied to a single post on this dumb thread (made dumber and more off-topic my Mr's Fishing & Botting) since Page 3 on May 1"

None of the posts since then are really related to my original question, which, though ridiculed by some, was at the time genuine. I appreciate the well-intentioned comments and also the pm's I have recived on the topic.

I have been following the direction this thread has taken though. I'm actually a bit suprised it generated the number of responses it has.

I agree with the comments made by some and think its time to lay it to rest - its served its point. But, of course, "up to you".

Best to all,

M